NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[bitcoinpaul]

But if you forge a block now, are you able to forge the next blocks also?

yes of course

Ok. To understand it better: are we talking about penalizing or not penalizing nodes who don't forge when they should do it?

[l8orre]

In 0.8.1, I am adding the ability to use POST instead of GET for all API and UI methods, and optionally enforce use of POST for the methods that submit the user secret phrase. This is to prevent caching of the secret phrase in browser memory cache, and to prevent mistakes due to submitting the same request twice, as browsers are supposed to warn users when doing this with POST requests.

This wasn't possible before because everything shared the same port and POST was reserved for peer networking only. Now that the UI and API requests have their own servlets, there is no problem in making them accept both GET and POST. I am adding a nxt.properties parameter whether to enforce the use of POST for the methods that require it, or just accept both GET and POST.

I have already changed the NRS UI and the tools - admin.html, alias.html, message.html, to use only POST. Client developers preparing for the 0.8 branch should consider using POST where appropriate too.

I am planning to reelase beta version of nxtFreeRider later today.

Guess I can start off by hooking up POST instead of GET   but should be no problem.

[redsn0w]

it works ?

yep :-)

I'm happy for you  , If you need an help you just have to ask .

[farl4web]

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 1 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

When is the change of fee planned to 0.1 NXT? I think if NXT is been calculated more in decimals behind the comma(point), 1 NXT will get more valuable. Pure
psychological.

[igmaca]

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 1 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

When is the change of fee planned to 0.1 NXT? I think if NXT is been calculated more in decimals behind the comma(point), 1 NXT will get more valuable. Pure
psychological.

sorry 

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 100 Nxt = 100 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

[CIYAM]

Ok. To understand it better: are we talking about penalizing or not penalizing nodes who don't forge when they should do it?

Yes - it is part of BCNext's TF *plan* but IMO it isn't *necessary* and could actually harm the network health.

[igmaca]

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 1 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

When is the change of fee planned to 0.1 NXT? I think if NXT is been calculated more in decimals behind the comma(point), 1 NXT will get more valuable. Pure
psychological.

sorry 

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 100 Nxt = 100 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

Account  100000 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
52,6 blocs per year with 100000 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 100000 Nxt will generate 5256 Nxt = 5256 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

[bitcoinpaul]

And the most important feature:
The network can detect which miners don't take part in block generation and act accordingly.

The last point deserves to be described with more details.

Imagine someone is going to do a "51%" attack against Nxt and he owns 90% of all coins. The adversary must stop generating blocks for legit branch coz he won't be able to compete against 100% mining power with his 90%. So he decides to "skip" his turn to generate a block. The rest 10% of the network detects this and penalizes the adversary by setting his mining power to 0 and distributing it among other miners. Now the network is back to 100% power coz everyone got 10-fold increase. The adversary can mine other branch in a secret place but it won't be able to replace the legit branch. Of course, the 2nd branch will have 100% "hashing" power tied to it as well, coz the attacker will get his 90% bumped to 100% but this can be counteracted by some mechanisms of advanced consensus (still not revealed).

As a 100% PoS currency Nxt is protected against a government wealthy entity that could buy/produce a lot of ASICs, with the transparent mining it's protected even against someone buying most of the coins.

So, what does make Nxt a really next-gen currency? Not those nice features like decentralized exchange, or decentralized DNS, or decentralized app store. The transparent mining algo does, and this is only the 1st part of BCNext's plan...

So the idea is, that the above is nonsense?

[redsn0w]

And the most important feature:
The network can detect which miners don't take part in block generation and act accordingly.

The last point deserves to be described with more details.

Imagine someone is going to do a "51%" attack against Nxt and he owns 90% of all coins. The adversary must stop generating blocks for legit branch coz he won't be able to compete against 100% mining power with his 90%. So he decides to "skip" his turn to generate a block. The rest 10% of the network detects this and penalizes the adversary by setting his mining power to 0 and distributing it among other miners. Now the network is back to 100% power coz everyone got 10-fold increase. The adversary can mine other branch in a secret place but it won't be able to replace the legit branch. Of course, the 2nd branch will have 100% "hashing" power tied to it as well, coz the attacker will get his 90% bumped to 100% but this can be counteracted by some mechanisms of advanced consensus (still not revealed).

As a 100% PoS currency Nxt is protected against a government wealthy entity that could buy/produce a lot of ASICs, with the transparent mining it's protected even against someone buying most of the coins.

So, what does make Nxt a really next-gen currency? Not those nice features like decentralized exchange, or decentralized DNS, or decentralized app store. The transparent mining algo does, and this is only the 1st part of BCNext's plan...

So the idea is, that the above is nonsense?

the thought of CFb is right,  it must be said that those who have few nxt is still penalized.

[igmaca]

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 1 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

When is the change of fee planned to 0.1 NXT? I think if NXT is been calculated more in decimals behind the comma(point), 1 NXT will get more valuable. Pure
psychological.

sorry  

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 100 Nxt = 100 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

Account  100000 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
52,6 blocs per year with 100000 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 100000 Nxt will generate 5256 Nxt = 5256 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

CONCLUSIONS

is clear that as the value of Nxt respect Fiat up

is smaller nodes may hold but the limit will always be the
opportunity cost of the money referred to immobilize one year..

[BitcoinForumator]

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 1 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

When is the change of fee planned to 0.1 NXT? I think if NXT is been calculated more in decimals behind the comma(point), 1 NXT will get more valuable. Pure
psychological.

sorry  

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 100 Nxt = 100 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

Account  100000 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
52,6 blocs per year with 100000 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 100000 Nxt will generate 5256 Nxt = 5256 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

CONCLUSIONS

is clear that as the value of fiat respect Nxt up

is smaller nodes may hold but the limit will always be the
opportunity cost of the money referred to immobilize one year..

[igmaca]

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 1 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

When is the change of fee planned to 0.1 NXT? I think if NXT is been calculated more in decimals behind the comma(point), 1 NXT will get more valuable. Pure
psychological.

sorry  

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 100 Nxt = 100 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

Account  100000 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
52,6 blocs per year with 100000 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 100000 Nxt will generate 5256 Nxt = 5256 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

CONCLUSIONS

is clear that as the value of Nxt respect Fiat up

is smaller nodes may hold but the limit will always be the
opportunity cost of the money referred to immobilize one year..

 

[CIYAM]

So the idea is, that the above is nonsense?

IMO it isn't necessary to do it this way but I don't know the *exact* details of this TF so it is hard to be certain.

Secretly trying to create an alternative blockchain "behind our backs" would require a lot of collusion (although this does depend upon just how many pools we end up with).

I can see if we ended up with only a very small number of pools that controlled the vast majority of forging power then you would have a very real potential threat but if our forging power is spread much better than that then I don't see it is an issue (it would require a lot of different parties to collude and the chances of that would become lower according to the number of said parties).

Another idea does spring to mind though - maybe we should "only apply the penalty to forgers controlling more than x% of the stake" (unless we are worried about collusion happening between potentially thousands of smaller forging nodes). This would protect against the largest stake holders colluding whilst giving smaller stake holders more incentive to forge.

The most important thing we have to consider here is the "health of the network".

[l8orre]

In ~8 hours I'm planning to reload the testnet, balances will be reset.

Hey CfB -I'll be out for a fe whours - when you restart, please send some testNXT to:


1738404304940813414


I'll really need them for client testing - my client is getting very usable now, and the focus shifts from architecture to hooking up widgets. I have posted a few screens over in the client tracking thread.

I am wondering about the GET - POST switchover - we'll see ...

[barbierir]

I'm not a dev and I haven't the slightest idea it is doable, but I wonder if forging could be based on the number of nodes you're connected to? Maybe with a limit beyond which you don't get additional bonus. Example: if you're connected to other 100 nodes you've ten times the chance of forging as someone connected to 10 nodes. So if the limit is 100 nodes and you want more forging power, you must set up a second node.

 

[bitcoinpaul]

How can we be sure that no entity will game the system, when there is no penalty?

[redsn0w]

In ~8 hours I'm planning to reload the testnet, balances will be reset.

Hi Cfb , at the moment I still have 30k  TestNxt in my account :   4940924250576724047

[CIYAM]

How can we sure that no entity will game the system, when there is no functioning penalty?

As I stated to "game the system" you need a huge amount of forging power as you need to be able to create "multiple" blocks behind peoples back in order to have any hope of winning against those "playing fairly" (remember that the longest chain with the best tickets is the winner every time - so if enough honest players are out there then it would be rather hard to beat them).

So for a small player there doesn't seem to be much reason for the penalty (as there would need to be many such small players "in on" the deal to try and help with a fork) - with regards to the larger players it does make some sense (as an "extra" insurance).

[msin]

SWARM NEEDED

Here is the reddit post, please everyone sign up at Bittrex.

Hello NXT community,

I solicited feedback on another thread about which coins we should support on our exchange before our public launch. NXT was overwhelmingly recommended.

Before we make the final decision, we're providing a special invite code for NXT users to experience our site first hand. Go to https://bittrex.com/Account/Register and use SUPPORT_NXT as the invite code. This gets you past the invite code queue. Place some trades, enabled 2FA, or try any of our other features to help us stress the site before the final launch. If you find a bug, we're handing out bug bounties as well. Having a great exchange helps us but also helps the NXT community.

If we get 100 signs ups using that code and active on our site, we'll add NXT before our public launch.

Please let me know if you have any questions or feedback, Bill

Just a reminder for everyone who hasn't already to please sign up for Bittrex.  Will also update everyone on Atomic Trade soon.  Thank you

68 signups as of this mornings, we need 32 more people to sign up at Bittrex, please do so if you have not.  Thank you.

[pandaisftw]

So the idea is, that the above is nonsense?

IMO it isn't necessary to do it this way but I don't know the *exact* details of this TF so it is hard to be certain.

Secretly trying to create an alternative blockchain "behind our backs" would require a lot of collusion (although this does depend upon just how many pools we end up with).

I can see if we ended up with only a very small number of pools that controlled the vast majority of forging power then you would have a very real potential threat but if our forging power is spread much better than that then I don't see it is an issue (it would require a lot of different parties to collude and the chances of that would become lower according to the number of said parties).

Another idea does spring to mind though - maybe we should "only apply the penalty to forgers controlling more than x% of the stake" (unless we are worried about collusion happening between potentially thousands of smaller forging nodes). This would protect against the largest stake holders colluding whilst giving smaller stake holders more incentive to forge.

The most important thing we have to consider here is the "health of the network".

https://blockchain.info/pools

2 pools in bitcoin own ~51% of the network hashpower... have they ever colluded (since they only need 51%)? Also, I wonder why this isn't big news... 2 pools that large is definitely unhealthy. Anyways, extrapolating the % distribution to NXT (91% attack), all 10 of the named pools + half of the unknown sources on that list would all have to be in collision at the same time.

Pretty much impossible (relative to Bitcoin).