NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[evanxxx]

Okay - let's imagine two chains (and think of the numbers after each letter as being "weight"):

A(100) B(10) C(50) = 160 (total weight)

A(50) B(200) C(100) = 340 (total weight)

So although A(100) is better than A(50) once we have B(200) and C(100) added to it then it is of no use for A(100) to "suddenly appear".

Thus if you are going to "game the system" you need to be sure that you can win the game. Without collusion you will not achieve this.

well, still not sure whether I understand correctly, will this downgrade the 90% attack protection to 51% attack protection?

[1714967918]

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[1714967918]

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[rickyjames]

Damelon: hours and hours of communication Ricky was informed on 18th of Feb how it works. Currently Nifty is dealing with Paul (organisator), we signed a form in Berlin, but he hasn't sent a payment info yet

Salsa, the form you signed says payment is due on signing and the signed form is to be sent to Steven Wilkinson at Steven@TexasBitcoinConference.com so that he can register the Sponsor and send the Sponsor an invoice.  Did you ever send a copy of the signed form to Steven?

[CIYAM]

well, still not sure whether I understand correctly, will this downgrade the 90% attack protection to 51% attack protection?

For a start I don't think we have seen any math to "prove" that the penalty system will give us >90% protection (does anyone have that information?).

The health of the network is dependent upon people forging (for whatever reason they do it) so my concern is that penalising smaller stake holders for "not forging" could reduce the number of forging nodes and therefore potentially "weaken" the network (by making it more vulnerable to governments who might decide to order the shutdown of servers).

[salsacz]

Damelon: hours and hours of communication Ricky was informed on 18th of Feb how it works. Currently Nifty is dealing with Paul (organisator), we signed a form in Berlin, but he hasn't sent a payment info yet

Salsa, the form you signed says payment is due on signing and the signed form is to be sent to Steven Wilkinson at Steven@TexasBitcoinConference.com so that he can register the Sponsor and send the Sponsor an invoice.  Did you ever send a copy of the signed form to Steven?

I sent it to you and told you to fill your name (and telephone?) there so you could send it to Steven (" There still needs to be filled info about Nxt speaker there."). Did you fill it and sent it to Steven?

[Mario123]

Pump

Who is able to develop a lightweight NXT tool for Windows and Mac, which sits just in your taskbar/menubar (see picture as an example)?

Installing and running this little tool should be hassle free. You can lookup your account, use main Nxt functions (like sending NXT, messaging), activate/deactivate forging right from the menu and you see some general blockchain stats.

That way, we could promote this little gadget as a simple and lightweight tool which runs smoothly in the background, forging for you (or not) and securing the Nxt network.

http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/desktop-utility-osx-lion.jpg
http://cloud.addictivetips.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Window-On-Top.png


(I'm no windows user. Do windows user still have this little apps in the task bar? Or is there a modern equivalent, like a gadget on the desktop?)

Since this is so OS-special, maybe two different developers for Windows and Mac. Come on, guys. Raise your hand for this project!

Developers, stand up, please. I think this would be a very nice thing to have for Nxt.

[Meizirkki]

I don't get the whole pool thing? Is it possible now to lease your forging power without sending out all your nxt?

Not right at the moment - but it soon will be.

This will actually make it possible via the use of an AT (Automated Transaction or "Turing complete transaction") to create yourself a "savings account" which after being created won't even require you to have your computer on to earn extra NXT (depending upon your stake of course).

I assume this will be implemented by the community if nxt devs don't do it.. so yea. A real problem right here.

It's the perfect environment to build and test the first DAC's. Rather than having a service provider wield peoples hashes, this is the sort of thing that could all be handled by open source code running on the block chain *relatively* easily instead.

Sorry I'm not so familiar with these terms. What's a DAC?

[evanxxx]

For a start I don't think we have seen any math to "prove" that the penalty system will give us >90% protection (does anyone have that information?).

From the text by BCNext/cfb, it seems so to me. don't know about the math

The health of the network is dependent upon people forging (for whatever reason they do it) so my concern is that penalising smaller stake holders for "not forging" could reduce the number of forging nodes and therefore potentially "weaken" the network (by making it more vulnerable to governments who might decide to order the shutdown of servers).

In fact, I think penalizing or not has very little effect to smaller stake holders, because it takes them a very long time to forge a block, it doesn't make sense to forge for just a few days and shut down the computer.

Edit: unless lots of large stake holders are shut down by governments

[ChuckOne]

Don't change the forging. Any kind of balancing effort will bring excessive complexity and a whole lot of issues. No matter what you do it'll always be the people with more resources to forge more. Flooding the already limited IP-space with forging-zombies is a bad, bad idea.

Agreed.

[CIYAM]

Sorry I'm not so familiar with these terms. What's a DAC?

A DAC is a "digital autonomous corporation" which indeed could be one application for an AT although there are many others.

[mingophoria]

Thanks once again 7017504655955743955
This is really an awesome community!!

Any one want to count up how many guys/gals/whatever have been touched by 70175xxxx today?

Maybe we can all send her/him a big bunch of flowers or some beer.......thx again,btw.

when will i be lucky

[CIYAM]

From the text by BCNext/cfb, it seems so to me. don't know about the math

We really need the math - so if we have any math guys in our community there is an opportunity for you to earn some NXT or BTC for helping out with this and some other analysis.

[rickyjames]

Damelon: hours and hours of communication Ricky was informed on 18th of Feb how it works. Currently Nifty is dealing with Paul (organisator), we signed a form in Berlin, but he hasn't sent a payment info yet

Salsa, the form you signed says payment is due on signing and the signed form is to be sent to Steven Wilkinson at Steven@TexasBitcoinConference.com so that he can register the Sponsor and send the Sponsor an invoice.  Did you ever send a copy of the signed form to Steven?

I sent it to you and told you to fill your name (and telephone?) there so you could send it to Steven (" There still needs to be filled info about Nxt speaker there."). Did you fill it and sent it to Steven?

You did not know my email address when you signed in Berlin, but you obviously knew my email address when you emailed it to me (after my repeated request), so I thought you were going to fill my email address in and send it on.  Once I heard you had talked with Paul Snow in Berlin about me speaking, I sent both him and the "TBC speaker" email address several emails with my full name, email address, biography and photo for use in his promotional materials, and I clearly identified myself as the NXT representative that had been coordinated in Berlin.

Your email to me read:

"Hi,
here is a contract between Nxt and texas conf. There still needs to be filled info about Nxt speaker there.
salsa"

So, no, I did not send the form in to Steven.  I did not know I was supposed to.  

If we need a fall guy to take the blame over this mixup then I will take the blame.  My bad.  This is now water under the bridge.  Let's move on.

It is probably too late to do anything about getting NXT officially involved in TBC now.  You haven't sent them $1000 and they haven't listed me as a speaker.  They have received no logo from us so we are not in their promotional literature.    We can still go in, shake hands, pass out business cards, hand out 200 flyers, and listen to Vitalik Buterin speak to everybody at TBC about Etherium.   Bottom line is that you have not spent any money yet on this conference and you have 20K NXT budgeted for it.   Passes at the door are $350 each and we need two, for me and Asian Prepper.  That's $700 or a $300 savings over what you were going to pay.  I suggest that you abandon attempts to get TBC to take the $1000 you haven't actually sent yet and instead send $700 of NXT to me at 16092180239932658439 so I can just get two door passes.

I await your directions.

[igmaca]

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 1 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

When is the change of fee planned to 0.1 NXT? I think if NXT is been calculated more in decimals behind the comma(point), 1 NXT will get more valuable. Pure
psychological.

sorry  

to put it in numbers
Account  1900 Nxt

1440 blocs per day
1 blocs per year with 1900 Nxt
fee per bloc (For example) 100
Profit per year 5.3%
5.3% must greater than cost of maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

If 1 Nxt = 1 dollar

Account  with 1900 Nxt will generate 100 Nxt = 100 dollar for maintaining the node and remain immobilized the funds (oportunity cost)

Keep thinking.  You had to run this node for a year, so the 100 dollars has to cover a monthly operations cost of 100/12 = $8.33 per month

So....

IF the block you capture once a year has 100 NXT in fees in it and
IF each NXT is worth $1 and
IF your monthly hardware amortization, bandwidth costs, and electricity costs are less than $8.33 per month

Then you made a monthly profit = $8.33 - monthly server costs

Anybody out there running a VPN for less than $8.33 per month?  

I pay 20 dollar per month for 2MB VPS. Because i belive in nxt ecosystem

The quetión is whether we can increase the number of transactions per block to 100
The question is whether a 1900 nxt node will want to wait a year to forge
The question is whether the value will rise soon nxt 1 dollar
The question is profitable to keep the funds in an account standing. which is the opportunity cost

[ChuckOne]

We already have it - any account with 1 NXT can forge. Odds to find a block is another question.

The purpose of my proposal is to "change the odds" (in favour of the small stake holder).

For example, with 2358 Nxt I can forge the next block in 345 days.

and I believe that the reward will be 0 nxt, in my opinion it is not right  this is not EQUALITY 

I do not understand. You create only 1 block per year. What exactly do you expect? 1000 NXTs for that?

I recently pondered about the discussion of inequality. I think it only stems from a perceived stagnation of the value associated with the amount of NXT a person has.

Let A be amount of NXTs and t1 and t2 two different timestamps. Humans cannot clearly see why A@t1 and A@t2 is a different value (in terms of goods one could buy with them). They just see A. They'd rather have a higher amount in their account (like interest in bank accounts).

One should teach people that NXT is deflationary (will they understand?). The increase in value is achieved indirectly and not by changing digits of the account balance.

[salsacz]

rickyjames: print the form, fill the form, scan the form, send it to Stephen Nifty was also in a phone contact with Paul, so lets wait for his news too

[ChuckOne]

I dont see how this would increase forging with smaller account. unless I am missing something.
If you have one NXT and 999,999,999 others have one nxt, your chances of forging a block are pretty small.
forging is important, it will keep the network decentralized.

The idea is simply to make it more likely that even a forging account with 1 NXT has a pretty good chance.

Why?

[CIYAM]

Why?

I am not so sure my first idea was a good one but my concern is that if most people become uninterested in forging it could make the network less resilient in the (hopefully unlikely) case of pool servers being shut down by authorities in particular.

So I am quite happy to drop that idea but I still think the problem of "penalty" needs to be considered as well as the problem of having "too much forging power" amongst a small number of pools.

[bitcoinpaul]

Below u'll find a short description of the Nxt communication system. This is the 2nd plan of our decentralization. 1st one you can find here.

hours and hours of communication

Did you ever send a copy of the signed form to Steven?

Did you fill it and sent it to Steven?

So, no, I did not send the form in to Steven.  I did not know I was supposed to.

 

[Lawmaker]

Just something that came to mind regarding the pooled forging issue.
Suppose someone leases forging power to a pool, and then forgets about it... Wouldn't he eventually own all nxt in existence? And the more it leases the lesser it would take. I'm still thinking many years but still....
I think transaction fees are ok as an anti-spam patch, but down along the road it could mean disaster...
Even when bitcoin mining won't generate any new bitcoins, someone mining and not spending bitcoins will eventually own all of them, but mining in bitcoin means power and hardware costs, while in nxt there are none or are incorporated in the forgin pool cut...
Am I missing something?

[igmaca]

I dont see how this would increase forging with smaller account. unless I am missing something.
If you have one NXT and 999,999,999 others have one nxt, your chances of forging a block are pretty small.
forging is important, it will keep the network decentralized.

The idea is simply to make it more likely that even a forging account with 1 NXT has a pretty good chance.

Why?

possibilities can not be increased but can advance fees in time 2 3 days if your rights  fees share with people who have for example 99999 nxt

in the worst case in a year and 100,000 nxt  and 1440 blocks per day
would forging 52.6 blocks per year

nearly one per week. probably every 2 3 days