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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2756163 times)
opticalcarrier
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March 14, 2014, 03:02:09 PM
 #44421

Nxt have a better innovation compared to other altcoins popping up everywhere, but the only thing that is keeping it from progressing is the inability to mine Nxt when you have zero balance from you account or even if you have a thousand of it, decentralize means it is not controlled by a few big stake holders.

I proposed an option for "mining" Nxt.  Technically, this isn't mining, but if someone were to do this, we could all use our SHA-256/Scrypt hashing power to acquire Nxt.

I first posted this over at the Nextcoin.org forum (see here).  Please join the discussion and if anyone who reads this knows of an experienced pool admin who might be interested, please refer them to this topic.

The really cool thing about this approach is that people will most-likely not mine Nxt to dump it.  They will mine Nxt and the process will pump it, rather than suppress value!

Practically any way you look at this approach is a benefit!

This is a really cool idea.  I might be interested in setting up the pool and a script to interact with coinwarz and an exchanges API and hosting the pool if there is some bounty.  Whales?

Ive been working on a script that will control 2 VPSs that work in conjunction for high availability to control a forging account on only 1 of the VPSs, where if a VPS croaks, it automatically picks up on the other VPS.  Since its bad to forge with the same account on 2 systems, Im developing this mechanism to support a HA forging account for everyone to lease their effectiveBalance to my pool.  Im nearly done with this little project (except for the remediation part) and could spend some time next on the PoW pool with auto transfer to an exchange and purchase of NXT based on APIs to an exchange and data it gets from coinwarz.
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March 14, 2014, 03:03:35 PM
 #44422

What upper left corner? Screenshot please.

some testNXt please : 4891842774218925776


15k TestNxt sent , Have fun Wink .

can i get some more too? Cheesy 10201806037510420301

7k sent,but testnxt is down,so i dont know how much it will take.


@wesleyh: when i put my mouse on my ID in the upper left corner,it appears a blank box,without the text it should appear.

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March 14, 2014, 03:04:06 PM
 #44423

i own hashrate.org and could use the domain for this type of pool.
let me know some more details if interested.

---
NXT Multipool! Mine Scrypt, SHA, Keccak or X11 for NXT! http://hashrate.org
http://hashrate.org/getting_started for port info!
bitcoinpaul
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March 14, 2014, 03:04:41 PM
 #44424

And let the pool miners run Nxt in the background.

Uniqueorn
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March 14, 2014, 03:04:49 PM
 #44425

any comments?  Cool

Quote
Make Nxt Your Blockchain: An Invitation To Universities and Academic Researchers
Tho whom it might concern,

Properly implemented decentralized networks offer the ability communicate and transact securely with anyone anywhere. This capability allows users of properly implemented decentralized networks to move value and information in the most efficient possible method. This is important because everyone deserves access to information. Access to information is a basic human right.

With rights come responsibilities. Prior to the casting of the Genesis Block of the Nxt cryptocurrency ecosystem, the answers to how to uphold the responsibility of providing access to information to all members of the human race had not been known. The information revolution has followed the same patterns of the industrial revolution: concentration of power, centralization and hierarchical leadership. The primary focus on development of technology has been corporate profit, not providing information access to everyone.

Nxt breaks the old profit driven centralized network model with its innovative Proof of Stake cryptocurrency NXT which provides the foundation of the sustainable Nxt ecosystem. The development follows open source protocols allowing review and competition. The leadership of the Nxt ecosystem functions at the edges of the network, driving innovation. As an example of this innovation, the NXT Asset exchange has made the first Dogecoin deposits and withdrawals (accurate to milliDoge!) from an Nxt Asset Exchange Gateway. This capability is developing rapidly to allow nearly instant and anonymous transactions of any asset class between any person.

Money is a form of freedom of speech. By choosing to invest in a certain candidate or company, a person is expressing their opinion. By choosing to invest in Nxt, a person is expressing their opinions. These opinions are developing into community based ideals as consensus is reached within the Nxt community. This consensus is important as it allows for voluntary governance.

Even before the native voting feature of the Nxt ecosystem is fully developed, voting is occurring in the Nxt community to establish 5 and 7 member committees administering Marketing Funds, TechDev Funds, and Infrastructure Funds. Proper adequate internal controls are established within the Nxt ecosystem by guaranteed transparency in voting, finances, and software development. These funds are managed through a process of Improvement Proposals which are reviewed and Bounties fulfilled for verified completed Improvements to the Nxt ecosystem. The great care taken by the Nxt ecosystem to ensure a holistic approach to implementation of financial cryptography gives major stakeholders easy points of entry to the ecosystem.

The Nxt ecosystem utilizes disciplines of Cryptography, Software Engineering, Rights, Accounting, Governance, Value and Finances to deliver an open source ecosystem with several unique features. Nxt Transparent Forging (TF) eliminates the “selfish-mining” that endangers the Bitcoin blockchain and all its clones to a 51% attack. Nxt Asset Exchange (AE) allows value to flow from other unsustainable blockchains and transaction methods into the Nxt ecosystem, as well as enabling crowdfunding kickstarters and micro- transactions. Nxt Arbitrary Messages (AM) allows data APIs to be called and custom applications designed. Two more unique core Nxt features currently under development are the Voting System (VS), which will enable publicly-verifiable democratic voting and the Automated Transactions (AT) which will enable smart contracts and robotics applications not even envisioned yet.

The advanced applications that can be built on the core Nxt ecosystem are limited only by imagination. Thirty years ago, no person would have ever imagined that nearly every person on the planet would be communicating with handheld wireless devices. Today this is a reality as the cost of smart phones is within reach of most of the global population. Growth in handheld wireless communication and transactions is exploding, presenting an opportunity for the most efficient and secure networks to succeed. Nxt is the most efficient and secure transaction network available and is secured by the innovative Proof of Stake mechanism, which utilizes minimal energy.

Many altruistic motives are at play within the development of the Nxt ecosystem. The goals of making the most efficient, most secure possible transaction network have replaced the legacy banking goals of making as much money as possible. Distributed Autonomous Corporations (DACs) will be built on top of the Nxt blockchain for profit and non-profit, leveraging the competitive advantage of operating on the most efficient secure transaction layer available. This efficiency combined with transparency drives the innovation and development of the Nxt ecosystem. As an example, the Nxt Mobile Applications Company (NMAP, The first Nxt DAC) just successfully closed its first stage of IPO early after overwhelming investor demand.

This is a direct invitation to academic researchers, cryptographers, mathematicians, software engineers, accountants and other curious professionals to examine the Nxt cryptocurrency platform for the unimagined possibilities it presents. The Nxt cryptocurrency ecosystem can bring banking and smart contracts to the unbanked at the lowest possible cost and the highest possible security, freeing billions of Dollars/Euros of dead capital resulting from improper or unavailable rights registration. Robots may one day interact with the world through the transmission of Nxt Arbitrary Messages and execution of Nxt Automated Transactions. What can you imagine doing with Nxt? Nxt invites all people to participate in the revolution.

Please contact us at: nxtsalsacz@gmail.com

NXT Whitepaper: http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Whitepaper:Nxt

Nxt scientific papers:

Nxt Crypto Review of Curve25519.java & Crypto.java
https://gist.github.com/doctorevil/9521116

Nxt Network Energy and Cost Efficiency Analysis:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J8uhdshu9epGRrQHBaloGc4itdvuAHZDAUtNDjOhz-8/edit (in progress)

The math of Nxt forging:
http://www.docdroid.net/a08e/forging.pdf.html (in progress)

What are the economic parameters of Nxt?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PP4EPNU_4drvFHkXlp29BNTOIEC4-fGqEcqhbId-iIA/pub (in progress)

Decentralized internet and Nxt solutions:
http://justpaste.it/decentralized-internet
+ video: http://youtu.be/RtTWUwRL9mQ (in progress)

To learn more: http://nxt.org  / http://mynxt.org
Nxt Online wallet: https://wallet.mynxt.info  / Nxt Clients: http://www.nxtclient.org/
Nxt exchanges: http://cryptsy.com  / http://bter.com  / http://vircurex.com  / http://poloniex.com  / http://dgex.com  
NXT thread on Bitcointalk: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.0  
NXT Source Code: http://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt-public/src

As a open letter on a website: sure.
But if you plan on contacting researchers I think that is WAY too long.
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March 14, 2014, 03:05:30 PM
Last edit: March 14, 2014, 03:33:13 PM by igmaca
 #44426


This is my question as well.  Instead of using nodecoin as the sole incentive for running a node...why not let the OTHER assets on NXT be the reward?  You could reward people small amounts of any coin (or asset) they desire from the trading fees (small amounts...say 0.00000010 or less).  Someone with a large stake in NXT could get slightly higher amounts.  That way even someone that has just 1NXT...gets something for being an active node.  That would give one hell of an incentive to get into NXT.  Everyone becomes there own micro exchange.

Am I completely off base here?

of course! is a great idea!!!!

Everyone becomes there own micro exchange.

this is the solution. AE NXT exchange charges a small fee for each transaction and distributes
the fee to the active nodes


The active nodes receive two fees

A fee for each exchange assets independent of fund account
A fee as currently does nxt if node forges

if you want to use AE nxt you have to use Nxt coins!!!  to pay the fees
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March 14, 2014, 03:09:48 PM
 #44427

We can turn the mining scheme against the mining coins !!

The price and the profitability of mining coins will go down while the price of Nxt will go up.

Knowing that it will be done makes me want to buy more Nxt right now.



+1



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Learn
rdanneskjoldr
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March 14, 2014, 03:13:13 PM
 #44428

What upper left corner? Screenshot please.

some testNXt please : 4891842774218925776


15k TestNxt sent , Have fun Wink .

can i get some more too? Cheesy 10201806037510420301

7k sent,but testnxt is down,so i dont know how much it will take.


@wesleyh: when i put my mouse on my ID in the upper left corner,it appears a blank box,without the text it should appear.




Text only one appears when i put the mouse over for the first time.Then it stays blank again.
Eadeqa
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March 14, 2014, 03:14:26 PM
 #44429

This endless discussion about nodecoin became quite boring, I'm going to derail it a little...

I skip every post that mentions nodecoin.

NXT-GZYP-FMRT-FQ9K-3YQGS
https://nxtforum.org
opticalcarrier
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March 14, 2014, 03:14:53 PM
 #44430

why have you not been backing me up in the past when I have been suggesting this?HuhHuh

I don't read all the posts.

For everyone's reference to discuss:

I view the fee as a blockchain spam deterrent, any possible ROI is secondary IMHO.  We don't have any major activity on the blockchain at the moment.  All is relatively quiet, but that will change as services are added and merchants begin to use NXT for payment.  After only a few short months of very little activity the full blockchain is already over 50 megs on disk.

I think the fee should only be changed if the price of NXT goes up significantly.  My 0.25 NXT minimum fee vote was based on the thought of 1 NXT going to the stable range of $0.15 to ~$0.30 cents US in the next six months.

I still say trying to tie the fee to some FIAT is the wrong direction.  Ill say it again - a transactions's fee should be tied to its byte size on the blockchain.  So lets say a NXT transfer is 128bytes, and its fee is .1NXT, so then an AM or alias transaction of size 256bytes should then cost .2NXT, and other transaction types follow the same method of fee determination.  We would determine a "base" transaction that is the smallest possible transaction, and set the .1 NXT fee to it.  (or .01 or .05 or whatever the community decides) and then scale every other transaction's fee to be based on its size compared to the base one.
But no one likes my idea.  Embarrassed

This proposal will require a bit more code; but for the moment I think a straight .1 NXT for all works, as it will encourage more use for now.
redsn0w
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March 14, 2014, 03:15:18 PM
 #44431

some testNXt please : 4891842774218925776


15k TestNxt sent , Have fun Wink .

can i get some more too? Cheesy 10201806037510420301

This is your primary address   Roll Eyes

thats my testnxt acc? :/
should i have a secondary testnxt acc? :L

No , you shouldn't .
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March 14, 2014, 03:17:39 PM
 #44432

What upper left corner? Screenshot please.

some testNXt please : 4891842774218925776


15k TestNxt sent , Have fun Wink .

can i get some more too? Cheesy 10201806037510420301

7k sent,but testnxt is down,so i dont know how much it will take.


@wesleyh: when i put my mouse on my ID in the upper left corner,it appears a blank box,without the text it should appear.




Text only one appears when i put the mouse over for the first time.Then it stays blank again.

Which browser + version is this? thx
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March 14, 2014, 03:18:33 PM
 #44433

We can turn the mining scheme against the mining coins !!

The price and the profitability of mining coins will go down while the price of Nxt will go up.

Knowing that it will be done makes me want to buy more Nxt right now.



+1



lol... Cheesy  This made my (Fri)day!

A Personal Quote on BTT from 2011:
"I'd be willing to make a moderate "investment" if the value of the BTC went below $2.00.  Otherwise I'll just have to live with my 5 BTC and be happy. :/"  ...sigh.  If only I knew.
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March 14, 2014, 03:22:31 PM
 #44434

I am going to keep asking untill someone either tells me that this is nonesense (and explain) or a real explanation...  Huh

If NXT is ONLY a building block and NOT a currency- what will drive its value?

Some on this thread believe that the overall value of transactions within the NXT ecosystem will drive the value of a single NXT and the overall market cap even if NXT itself is no longer a currency. One other person in this thread called it the gold, the basic store of value etc.

I believe that this, or aspects of this are the real problem around the node discussion and a contradiction:

If this was a centralized company (like ripple or google) than I would be very happy to become a decentralized Sysco (infrastructure) or Google (implementation) and enjoy my price per share (the parallel to my price per NXT) go through the roof. However, in a decentralized setting- this is not the same thing. The NXT building blocks per se are not worth anything if not ALSO functioning as a unit of exchange either within the NXT ecosystem or as a combination of ecosystem and real world transactions (BTC in overstock or Virgin for example)

Since this is NOT a share or a financial asset per se (if primarily a building block as BCNEXT and friends want it) it will have no real monetary value. it will only have monetary value if used as the oil within the NXT ecosystem (this is what Etherium are doing with their ETHER), i.e. that you need to have some to create anything + to transact + to pay dividends etc. NOT just a building block.

Abandoning the 1.0 aspect of NXT will diminish the value from which a cap is derived

Using this as a 1.0 on top of the decentralized platform and requiring fees, pay dividends but stuff etc. will create a real economic value - an economy on which it will work.

Right now I dont see NXT as emphasizing 1.0 aspect and therefore dont see how it will hold value independently- but rather have great valuable decentralized asstets on top of it without real value as per 1NXT transferable to BTC or USD.

can someone argue against my assertion? thank you- and soryy for asking this for the 6th time in the past 10 days

  
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March 14, 2014, 03:25:29 PM
 #44435

What upper left corner? Screenshot please.

some testNXt please : 4891842774218925776


15k TestNxt sent , Have fun Wink .

can i get some more too? Cheesy 10201806037510420301

7k sent,but testnxt is down,so i dont know how much it will take.


@wesleyh: when i put my mouse on my ID in the upper left corner,it appears a blank box,without the text it should appear.




Text only one appears when i put the mouse over for the first time.Then it stays blank again.

Which browser + version is this? thx

Google chrome.Im not sure how to verify the version.Can it be Versión 33.0.1750.146 m Huh
I've been trying the testnxt for long and havent updated anything or changed anything in the browser,but i am not sure if i had this feature working properly before.

Edit: Looking for the version,it updated and says everything is updated now.I restarted browser but it is still happening.
bitcoinpaul
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March 14, 2014, 03:26:54 PM
 #44436

I am going to keep asking untill someone either tells me that this is nonesense (and explain) or a real explanation...  Huh

If NXT is ONLY a building block and NOT a currency- what will drive its value?
  

I cut you right there. NXT is a coin, or token.
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March 14, 2014, 03:27:48 PM
Last edit: March 14, 2014, 03:54:50 PM by igmaca
 #44437

I am going to keep asking untill someone either tells me that this is nonesense (and explain) or a real explanation...  Huh

If NXT is ONLY a building block and NOT a currency- what will drive its value?

Some on this thread believe that the overall value of transactions within the NXT ecosystem will drive the value of a single NXT and the overall market cap even if NXT itself is no longer a currency. One other person in this thread called it the gold, the basic store of value etc.

I believe that this, or aspects of this are the real problem around the node discussion and a contradiction:

If this was a centralized company (like ripple or google) than I would be very happy to become a decentralized Sysco (infrastructure) or Google (implementation) and enjoy my price per share (the parallel to my price per NXT) go through the roof. However, in a decentralized setting- this is not the same thing. The NXT building blocks per se are not worth anything if not ALSO functioning as a unit of exchange either within the NXT ecosystem or as a combination of ecosystem and real world transactions (BTC in overstock or Virgin for example)

Since this is NOT a share or a financial asset per se (if primarily a building block as BCNEXT and friends want it) it will have no real monetary value. it will only have monetary value if used as the oil within the NXT ecosystem (this is what Etherium are doing with their ETHER), i.e. that you need to have some to create anything + to transact + to pay dividends etc. NOT just a building block.

Abandoning the 1.0 aspect of NXT will diminish the value from which a cap is derived

Using this as a 1.0 on top of the decentralized platform and requiring fees, pay dividends but stuff etc. will create a real economic value - an economy on which it will work.

Right now I dont see NXT as emphasizing 1.0 aspect and therefore dont see how it will hold value independently- but rather have great valuable decentralized asstets on top of it without real value as per 1NXT transferable to BTC or USD.

can someone argue against my assertion? thank you- and soryy for asking this for the 6th time in the past 10 days

  


This is my question as well.  Instead of using nodecoin as the sole incentive for running a node...why not let the OTHER assets on NXT be the reward?  You could reward people small amounts of any coin (or asset) they desire from the trading fees (small amounts...say 0.00000010 or less).  Someone with a large stake in NXT could get slightly higher amounts.  That way even someone that has just 1NXT...gets something for being an active node.  That would give one hell of an incentive to get into NXT.  Everyone becomes there own micro exchange.

Am I completely off base here?

of course! is a great idea!!!!

Everyone becomes there own micro exchange.

this is the solution. AE NXT exchange charges a small Nxt coin fee for each transaction and distributes
the fee to the active nodes


The active nodes receive two fees

A fee for each exchange assets independent of fund account
A fee as currently does nxt if node forges

if you want to use AE nxt you have to use Nxt coins to pay the fees
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March 14, 2014, 03:30:10 PM
 #44438

I am going to keep asking untill someone either tells me that this is nonesense (and explain) or a real explanation...  Huh

If NXT is ONLY a building block and NOT a currency- what will drive its value?

Some on this thread believe that the overall value of transactions within the NXT ecosystem will drive the value of a single NXT and the overall market cap even if NXT itself is no longer a currency. One other person in this thread called it the gold, the basic store of value etc.

I believe that this, or aspects of this are the real problem around the node discussion and a contradiction:

If this was a centralized company (like ripple or google) than I would be very happy to become a decentralized Sysco (infrastructure) or Google (implementation) and enjoy my price per share (the parallel to my price per NXT) go through the roof. However, in a decentralized setting- this is not the same thing. The NXT building blocks per se are not worth anything if not ALSO functioning as a unit of exchange either within the NXT ecosystem or as a combination of ecosystem and real world transactions (BTC in overstock or Virgin for example)

Since this is NOT a share or a financial asset per se (if primarily a building block as BCNEXT and friends want it) it will have no real monetary value. it will only have monetary value if used as the oil within the NXT ecosystem (this is what Etherium are doing with their ETHER), i.e. that you need to have some to create anything + to transact + to pay dividends etc. NOT just a building block.

Abandoning the 1.0 aspect of NXT will diminish the value from which a cap is derived

Using this as a 1.0 on top of the decentralized platform and requiring fees, pay dividends but stuff etc. will create a real economic value - an economy on which it will work.

Right now I dont see NXT as emphasizing 1.0 aspect and therefore dont see how it will hold value independently- but rather have great valuable decentralized asstets on top of it without real value as per 1NXT transferable to BTC or USD.

can someone argue against my assertion? thank you- and soryy for asking this for the 6th time in the past 10 days

  

It is a 1.0 cryptocurrency as long as people give value to it, and you will be able to buy goods or services with it. 2.0 properties will make it much more useful.
With nxt you will be able to buy everything you can buy with bitcoin + you will be able to buy stock options,gold,digital tokens,etc..

2.0 is the reason for people to work with Nxt.Once it is adopted, more commerces and an economy will be built to be used as a 1.0
It is like asking why couldnt i pay my flight tickets with bitcoin in 2010,first you need a critical mass adoption.
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March 14, 2014, 03:35:47 PM
 #44439

"They're PoW and use LOTS of power; we're PoS so we don't have to".

This still stands.

AE users don't run nodes by having their clients unlocked.
Rewarding (and compensating) Nxters who run nodes for securing the network, seems fair to me.

I also have nothing against the gamification element.
Yeeeeeah, it's fun to see Nodecoins being generated. But "gambling"? How? You don't play.

AE is far more dangerous in that aspect than a (green) reward system, called Nodecoin. NodePoints. Is that better?


I think there is a generational thing here and I am on the old end of the stick.  I never spent any time playing a video game watching a point counter go up and up and up to happy little sounds, I wasted my time watching people go for huge piles of money on The Sopranos, The Shield and Breaking Bad.  I want huge piles of money.  I want 1 NXT = $1000.  I don't see how giving out free coins makes that happen.  Of course, I don't understand how Farmville or Candy Crush or Twitter makes money either.  Oh wait, they don't.

NXT is an ecosystem and lots of things find their niche in a true ecosystem.   Good luck, James.

Unfortunately I could not disagree with you more. We aren't going to shrink wrap Nxt and sell it in Walmart.  It's definitely a generational thing.  Some people don't understand why Whatsapp is worth $19Bil without making a cent.  It's because they focused on nothing but offering the best free service and building userbase at which point companies (facebook) said "That 500mil userbase is worth something"  BTW, Twitter made $250m and Zynga (Farmville) made $311M last quarter.

Nodecoin is not changing Nxt.  It's an asset on Nxt exchange, one that I believe is extremely innovative.  Nxt is still POS, it Always will be.  There is an asset that is POW, but it's not in Nxt core.  It's a new coin built on top of Nxt. We can't tell people what assets they can and can't build.  We need to encourage everyone to build anything they want on top of Nxt, because no matter what, they will need to acquire Nxt to buy, sell, send, any asset.  To me, it's very anti-nxt to try and discourage any idea no matter how radical.
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March 14, 2014, 03:37:17 PM
 #44440

I am going to keep asking untill someone either tells me that this is nonesense (and explain) or a real explanation...  Huh

If NXT is ONLY a building block and NOT a currency- what will drive its value?
  

I cut you right there. NXT is a coin, or token.

Great- If I thought this was the answer I wouldnt ask and be happy with my investment.

BUT this is not the assertion of some here, including BCNEXT's old postings and CFB. They clearly look at the ultimate goal as a 2.0 with many assets and coins on it with NXT as building block and NOT coin.

The sentence: this is not a coin is repetitive throughout
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