[ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow!

[kalus]

Right now nobody seems to be able to predict what's happening to Catcoin. It should have kept dropping, but it's gone back up.

At the very least we can see what happens over the next few days.

Seriously? People read that most of us agreed about forking the coin so they started buying cheap because they saw the future of the coin

that was at 3.  now the coin is rising again, everything's ok with the fundamentals of the coin.  

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[vondi1122]

HASHRATE,HASHRATE,HASHRATE

[Nullu]

Right now nobody seems to be able to predict what's happening to Catcoin. It should have kept dropping, but it's gone back up.

At the very least we can see what happens over the next few days.

Seriously? People read that most of us agreed about forking the coin so they started buying cheap because they saw the future of the coin, that's why it didn't keep dropping, this is not about loving the coin, it's the market.

Well we're trying to determine what the coin is doing. Earlier someone said the community wouldn't have an impact. Now it is. Which is it?

Forking is still on the table, but my head is spinning from trying to work out what to do now. Nothing has to be decided right this second. I've PMed the dev and he has all he needs to decide. If the coin is still struggling in a few days then it can go ahead. Right now we're trying to analyse something that by merely analysing we may in fact be altering.

[foaman]

nice rebound maybe there is hope.  I bought back in low so its a plus for me but without more hash power we could just be doing this again in a couple of days.

[BitchCoin]

i don't know what to do anymore

[ZBBBB]

Everyone does realize it is climbing because of the talk of the fork. Fork = living cat, no fork = chinese food......

[foaman]

well if the dev doesn't chime in and actually fork it then it was all for nothing ... again.  if he has real life issues he may have lost interest in cryptos.  when you have nothing else, whether or not a coin dies or not is the least of his worries.  I hope not, but being robbed of everything you own probably puts what is important in life into perspective. 

[jochem]

Lets hope the update will be here VERY soon..

[Nullu]

well if the dev doesn't chime in and actually fork it then it was all for nothing ... again.  if he has real life issues he may have lost interest in cryptos.  when you have nothing else, whether or not a coin dies or not is the least of his worries.  I hope not, but being robbed of everything you own probably puts what is important in life into perspective. 

Just a little context; this coin is a little over a week old.

[etblvu1]

I really really think doing a "hard fork" or changing the formula on this coin is a bad idea, because through a little bit of coordinated effort, we can make this work as-is, and once it stabilizes, it would be the only coin out there that is an exact copy of Bitcoin, which is a status you only get to lose once, and never get back.

If if we are going to change the code, let us at least introduce some innovation that no other coin has done, and keep enough of the parameters intact so arguably it is still a Bitcoin clone, and address the actual problem (destructive oscillation of difficulty levels resulting from people entering and leaving mining the coin based on immediate "profitability" considerations), not the symptom we see right now (the current high difficulty level). Changing the difficulty adjustment time would only speed up the frequency of the destructive oscillation in difficulty levels without addressing the underlying problem, and this would only make things worse (just look at what is going on with GalaxyCoin, and other altcoins with fast block generation times, and wild swings in difficulty levels).

If we are changing the code (and I still think it's better not to), it is possible to do that keep the following parameters intact, and address the underlying problem:

1) Block time = keep at 10 minutes
2) Difficulty adjustment = keep at 2016 blocks
3) Max supply = keep at 21 million
4) reward halving interval = keep at 210,000 blocks
5) Block reward = keep the same at 50, but with just one minor modification*

* You solve a block. If the current difficulty level is significantly easier than the last difficulty level, your block reward will depend on the results of performing a simple loyalty check. If you can point to a block you solved during the last difficulty era which you did not point to before (i.e., comes from the same address), you get the full 50 coins. Otherwise, you get half (25 coins). The balance of coins are carried over to the next block reward or destroyed.

This would generally keep away miner-dumpers, and reserve full rewards for loyal miners, regardless of what price swings may come in the future. Pool operators have incentive to enforce the same rule on those who pool mine, so the general trend is people will commit to mine or not mine the coin, based on longer term considerations (which is how people decided to mine or not mine Bitcoins orignially!), and not on split second "profitability" considerations. This code would be so Bitcoin friendly that they could back-port the code into the Bitcoin source code and it would make no difference in its operation, unless in some extreme future circumstances there was a wild swing in difficulty levels of Bitcoins (not something likely to happen), so we could lobby for this code to be back-ported into Bitcoin, thus making the coin again an exact clone of Bitcoin.

I was actually going to use this idea for a future altcoin I was going to work with some team I would put together to produce, but I am making it available for use here, because some of the other ideas floating seem so short-sighted to me and I don't want to see our CAT suffer any more than necessary.

Please comment.

[johnny_non]

i'm with nullu the coin is only a week old.
calm down services are coming, the coin will make it to the outside world very soon

[foaman]

I know its only a week old.  that was kinda my point he could be so tied up with real life issues for a while if he was robbed.  a couple of weeks could go by quickly when trying to work with police and call pawn shops trying to get your stuff back.   this coin, being as young as it is, the dev may have never had enough time to be come truly attached to it the coin to the point where he cares enough to put real life issues in front of making sure the coins is safe.

[epenue]

ups, down again 

[F1xia]

Do not worry, cats are on their way to the moon!
http://s.pikabu.ru/images/previews_comm/2014-01_1/13886823754282.jpg

[atheistftwins]

I really really think doing a "hard fork" or changing the formula on this coin is a bad idea, because through a little bit of coordinated effort, we can make this work as-is, and once it stabilizes, it would be the only coin out there that is an exact copy of Bitcoin, which is a status you only get to lose once, and never get back.

If if we are going to change the code, let us at least introduce some innovation that no other coin has done, and keep enough of the parameters intact so arguably it is still a Bitcoin clone, and address the actual problem (destructive oscillation of difficulty levels), not the spilt second problem (high difficulty level). Changing the difficulty adjustment time only speeds up the destructive oscillation in difficulty levels, and this only makes things worse (just look at what is going on with GalaxyCoin).

If we are changing the code (and I still think it's better not to), it is possible to do that keep the following parameters intact, and address the underlying problem:

1) Block time = keep at 10 minutes
2) Difficulty adjustment = keep at 2016 blocks
3) Max supply = keep at 21 million
4) reward halving interval = keep at 210,000 blocks
5) Block reward = keep the same at 50, but with just one minor modification*

* You solve a block. If the current difficulty period is significantly easier than the last difficulty period, your block reward will depend on the results of performing a simple loyalty check. If you can point to a block you solved during the last difficulty era which you did not point to before (i.e., comes from the same address), you get the full 50 coins. Otherwise, you get half (25 coins). The balance of coins are carried over to the next block reward or destroyed.

This would generally keep away miner-dumpers, and reserve full rewards for loyal miners, regardless of what price swings may come in the future. Pool operators have incentive to enforce the same rule on those who pool mine, so the general trend is people will commit to mine or not mine the coin, based on longer term considerations (which is how people decided to mine or not mine Bitcoins orignially!), and not on split second "profitability" considerations. This code would be so Bitcoin friendly that they could back-port the code into the Bitcoin source code and it would make no difference in its operation, unless in some extreme future circumstances there was a wild swing in difficulty levels of Bitcoins (not something likely to happen), so we could lobby for this code to be back-ported into Bitcoin, thus making the coin again an exact clone of Bitcoin again.

I was actually going to use this idea for some future altcoin, but I am making it available for use here, because some of the other ideas floating around are so abhorrent to me. Please comment.

Can you please clarify what is so special about bitcoin specs that you think CAT should keep the block times? People on this thread have some deluded emotional daydream about bitcoin. CAT is not BTC. BTC was the first of its kind and the only one to truely receive mainstream popularity. CAT has to compete with all the other altcoins and therefore needs to face the reality that people WILL move to the most profitable coin. Your idea does not solve anything. People will STILL move to the most valuable coin. In fact, what you are doing is further disincentivizing people from returning to CAT to mine.

[epenue]

im afraid fork-chatting is not enough, maybe when the fork is official we can see some light,

right now, this was a text-book bulltrap.

lets hope dev is awake and made and announncement before its too late

[tabsa]

I really really think doing a "hard fork" or changing the formula on this coin is a bad idea, because through a little bit of coordinated effort, we can make this work as-is, and once it stabilizes, it would be the only coin out there that is an exact copy of Bitcoin, which is a status you only get to lose once, and never get back.

If if we are going to change the code, let us at least introduce some innovation that no other coin has done, and keep enough of the parameters intact so arguably it is still a Bitcoin clone, and address the actual problem (destructive oscillation of difficulty levels), not the spilt second problem (high difficulty level). Changing the difficulty adjustment time only speeds up the destructive oscillation in difficulty levels, and this only makes things worse (just look at what is going on with GalaxyCoin).

If we are changing the code (and I still think it's better not to), it is possible to do that keep the following parameters intact, and address the underlying problem:

1) Block time = keep at 10 minutes
2) Difficulty adjustment = keep at 2016 blocks
3) Max supply = keep at 21 million
4) reward halving interval = keep at 210,000 blocks
5) Block reward = keep the same at 50, but with just one minor modification*

* You solve a block. If the current difficulty period is significantly easier than the last difficulty period, your block reward will depend on the results of performing a simple loyalty check. If you can point to a block you solved during the last difficulty era which you did not point to before (i.e., comes from the same address), you get the full 50 coins. Otherwise, you get half (25 coins). The balance of coins are carried over to the next block reward or destroyed.

This would generally keep away miner-dumpers, and reserve full rewards for loyal miners, regardless of what price swings may come in the future. Pool operators have incentive to enforce the same rule on those who pool mine, so the general trend is people will commit to mine or not mine the coin, based on longer term considerations (which is how people decided to mine or not mine Bitcoins orignially!), and not on split second "profitability" considerations. This code would be so Bitcoin friendly that they could back-port the code into the Bitcoin source code and it would make no difference in its operation, unless in some extreme future circumstances there was a wild swing in difficulty levels of Bitcoins (not something likely to happen), so we could lobby for this code to be back-ported into Bitcoin, thus making the coin again an exact clone of Bitcoin again.

I was actually going to use this idea for some future altcoin, but I am making it available for use here, because some of the other ideas floating around are so abhorrent to me. Please comment.

I don't know if your ideas are possible to implement, but thanks for suggesting some great ideas to improve the catcoin.

What we need to change ASAP is this "2) Difficulty adjustment = keep at 2016 blocks".
Modern scrypt coins have diff adjustments at only 36 blocks, which protects them from big pools coming in and making the coin impossible to mine and transact in (no new blocks! http://catchain.info/chain/Catcoin).

Adversity brings community together, hopefully we can fix this go to the moon together.

[foaman]

bitcoins specs are old school there is no reason to use them at all.  better specs are way more important that being able to claim bit coin clone.

if someone released a brand new car that was exactly the same as a 1980 Ford Tarus but ran on diesel instead of gas, does that make you want to buy it ?

outside of that I think a group of people is trying to crash numerous alt coins.  go look at the sell history on lotto coins.  same shit as doge coins for the last 3 days.  thousands of sell under 10k quantity 1 satoshi less then the going rate.  cannot be a coincidence.

[etblvu1]

People will STILL move to the most valuable coin. In fact, what you are doing is further disincentivizing people from returning to CAT to mine.

How often do you see Bitcoins or Litecoins at the very top of the profitability charts?

Answer: For all practical purposes, Never.

Why do people mine Bitcoins and Litecoins even if they are not at the top of profitability charts? No, it is not because they are stupid. It is because they are stable, and the miners believe in the long-term growth prospects of the coins. This was the original reason, before altcoins existed, that people would set themselves up to mine Bitcoins. Oscillations caused by minute-to-minute shifting in where mining takes place is purely destructive, because it introduces a variance between estimated hashing rate (determined by measuring actual hashing that is occuring), and actual hashing rate. This variance occurs, because when the difficulty swings upwards, due to competiton for short-term hashing resources, a huge number of people stop mining the coin; and when the difficulty swings downwards, there is a huge influx of temporary hashing power. This creates a destructive oscillation, which prevents the block time from stabilizing at the intended level. If you take away just this one factor (destructive oscillation), you achieve the same stability in difficulty levels you see in Bitcoins and Litecoins, and attention can be focused on promotion and marketing. The same code can be lobbied to be back-ported to Bitcoin, and then we would be back to exact-clone status again, which has a certain amount of marketing appeal. I submit that people who love and thrive on the wild oscillations of altcoins are more interested in gambling than in promoting long-term value of the coin, and there are plenty of altcoins out there they can gamble with, and there is nothing wrong with choosing to take this coin out of the realm of their gambling, if in doing so, we expect the coin to gain value.

[zerodrama]

The people who are left mining this thing are the ones WHO KNOW WHAT IT IS.

the people who are left mining this thing took the holidays off and forgot to switch their rigs over to more profitable coins.  

Wrong. I don't care about short term profit. You can be a limited attention span trader. I'm a technology builder. See you in court, er the free market of ideas, counselor.