[ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow!

[fredeq]

Yeah lets now debate for 2 weeks on what stats to use...

Its not like every damn bitcointalk user is able to fork it. I am happy that someone stepped forward because dev is busy or just does not care.

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[zerodrama]

It really isn't a human problem. It is a code problem. Humans are responding to the faulty economic incentives created by the code. Right now, with the way the coins function, if you mine "profitable" coins of the split second and dump it on the exchanges, you do end up accumulating more coins, than if you loyally mine your favorite coin. If the code stops giving economic incentives to behave in this way, humans will stop behaving this way. We really should not be satisfied with coin software which embeds economic incentive for users to act in a way that is destructive to the value of the coin. We are so close to achieving a perfect solution to this problem, it would be a shame if some other coin were to be the first to implement it.

Incentives are for the uninspired. Incentives reward people who have no intention of keeping the coins. They measure profitability in short term pockets of time. That's a human bug, not a code bug.

I mine Catcoin because of its USE potential not because of its NEAR TERM profit potential.

The pools would calculate the profitability of the coin based on the formula that the coin is worth 25 coins per block. Using standard profitability formulas, this would show the coin as being only half as profitable as it would be for loyal miners.

They're not going to spend CPU power averaging the loyals versus the hoppers. This is going to lead to fungibility issues because some blocks are worth more than others. People are extremely short sighted and would accuse the pool of cheating or stealing. You're making the assumption that people are rational. They're not. They're impulsive and panicky. Those are the most common modes. They don't think about the future nor do they think about anyone else.

Thus, multipool type services would choose not to mine this coin,because it appears unprofitable, or if they forget to change the value to 25 coins per block, they would have some explaining to do to their userbase who is looking to maximize profits, and they seem to keep getting a low number of Catcoins. And in any case it does not harm the network that much, because other multipool type sites would pop up that specifically avoid coins that implement Loyalty Points because it attracts users not to end up with a low number of coins.

Most would just blame the pool or the coin developer. Scam threads would erupt everywhere. People are just not as conscious or considerate as you suggest. You give them too much credit.

While the coin jumpers receive 25 coins, the loyal miners are getting the benefit of 50 coins during easy difficulty times. People do respond to incentives. People do not set up elaborate multipool type systems just to complicate their lives - they are actually trying to maximize profits for their mining rigs. Deny them the profits, and they will seek the profits elsewhere. But in short order, as coins implementing Loyalty Credits soar in value, while other coins lose value, all the coins will in short order implement this change or find they cannot survive.

They will survive because most people won't even want to know the little details. They will just want the instaprofit coins. You first need to convince the miners to care, and the whole point of mining on coin hopping pools is so they don't have to care.

So jumping around by the minute hunting for profits, will become a thing of the past. It is not human nature to coin-hop - it is human nature to try to eek out maximum profits - and when the code stops incentivizing people to behave this way, they will just pick a coin to be loyal to, and set the rigs to mine there, and forget it. This is how miners should behave, and will behave, once the Loyalty Credit system gets implemented. And this will help the entire cryptocurrency movement. And as a bonus, for people who report coin income to the tax authorities, mining a coin and holding it long term can result in favorable long-term capital gains treatment, whereas engaging in mining-dumping-buying behavior presumably would not.

People will still coin-hop. It is human nature to let someone else drive the bus and the coin-hopping bus will just find the instacoin they want. As for people who want to report on taxes, they buy coin. They don't mine.

[bcrypto]

What would Ron Paul do?

[CatCoinForums]

The majority wants best for this coin and that option is to fork it... we cant keep going on like this, its awful and bad for the coin. Accept it and accept the community's decision and lets move on and forget about this hiccup..

[etblvu1]

People will still coin-hop.

Sure, some people will coin-hop, for the same reasons people who sit in front of televisions in couches channel-surf on their cable TV.

The least we can do, to help the cryptocurrency movement, is to set up the code in such a way that people who do this are demonstrably receiving fewer coins than people who make up their minds and stick to mining one coin.

Once this is known, I believe coin-hopping will lose its appeal to most people who engage in it. Just ask anyone here who pool hops, if they would continue hopping, if they had a guarantee that by picking a single coin to mine for weeks at a time, they would end up with more coins. And ask all the people who say they support Catcoin but felt forced by economic reasons, to switch to mining another coin, if a mechanism guaranteed they would benefit from extra coins for mining high difficulty times, they would stick around for the long-term. You might be surprised.

[zerodrama]

The majority wants best for this coin and that option is to fork it... we cant keep going on like this, its awful and bad for the coin. Accept it and accept the community's decision and lets move on and forget about this hiccup..

The majority already has coins for that.

[rizardus]

is there a way that u can change transaction time ?

[CatCoinForums]

The majority wants best for this coin and that option is to fork it... we cant keep going on like this, its awful and bad for the coin. Accept it and accept the community's decision and lets move on and forget about this hiccup..

The majority already has coins for that.

What? your comment doesn't make sense to me at all.

[zerodrama]

Sure, some people will coin-hop, for the same reasons people who sit in front of televisions in couches channel-surf on their cable TV.

That's 99%.

The least we can do, to help the cryptocurrency movement, is to set up the code in such a way that people who do this are demonstrably receiving fewer coins than people who make up their minds and stick to mining one coin.

And you make it harder for people to innovate and fix bugs. Band-Aiding human behavior is as bad or worse than with code. The fact that the code has scattered hardcoded values is bad enough.

Once this is known, I believe coin-hopping will lose its appeal to most people who engage in it. Just ask anyone here who pool hops, if they would continue hopping, if they had a guarantee that by picking a single coin to mine for weeks at a time, they would end up with more coins. And ask all the people who say they support Catcoin but felt forced by economic reasons, to switch to mining another coin, if a mechanism guaranteed they would benefit from extra coins for mining high difficulty times, they would stick around for the long-term. You might be surprised.

They won't assimilate that idea for at least 18 months until the New York Times or Reader's Digest mentions it. They'll keep on mining the other "higher paying" coins.

In fact, the only REAL advantage to your idea is that the hoppers can't dump as much, because they don't earn as much. They will not be deterred by this.

Also your idea penalizes low hash loyal miners and rewards high hash coin hoppers who have a shorter block generation time than the loyal miners. It would have to differentiate between them somehow. And this extra detail is exactly what I'm talking about when I say it will turn into more and more micromanaging. More and more you'll find side effects like this with much harder to implement solutions.

Entropy cannot be destroyed without a miraculously clever hack.

[zerodrama]

The majority wants best for this coin and that option is to fork it... we cant keep going on like this, its awful and bad for the coin. Accept it and accept the community's decision and lets move on and forget about this hiccup..

The majority already has coins for that.

What? your comment doesn't make sense to me at all.

The people who want to change the coin can just mine a coin that already has those features. There's 100 to choose from. Then they will just hop back and forth on the majority instacoins they want.

[g4lt]

What would Ron Paul do?

Complain about things for twenty years, make a futile gesture, then fade into obscurity?

[johnny_non]

i'm not for forking i think that's a bad decision the only thing forking can accomplish is make it temporarily more appealing to people that don't care about it
i've got two machines on it i'm not making money and have been spending 20hrs a day working behind  the scenes.
the developer cares i got a message from him today.
just cause he's not on here feeding trolls doesn't mean he does't care. i mean half of you haven't had anything to say until maybe 2 days ago
and all this talk of market crash.
blah blah bullshit
it's a week old and $0.50 usd it saw $1.00usd it's first day in trade
there are 1000000+ coins plenty liquid
do any of you know how long it's taken bitcoin to touch any of that?
so anybody trying to speak on behalf of me for forking is talking out their ass
cause i think it's the wrong move.

[kuroman]

The majority wants best for this coin and that option is to fork it... we cant keep going on like this, its awful and bad for the coin. Accept it and accept the community's decision and lets move on and forget about this hiccup..

You can't speak for the majority, there is at least 400+ catcoin supporters, only 4 people expressed their opinion on a fork

I'm not against forking, what I'm against is unilateral rushed decisions
Forking is one way of doing thing, now the first step is to get other people opinion with a vote or something similars so it's more democratic and other people that are against will have no choice but to accept the results as it is a majority choice

Secondly and like I explaned in my previous poste, we should it things slowly, we have one chance, if we screwed we are done for, discuss the advantages and drawbacks for every single change and come up with a solid plan to present to exchanges (so the coin DOES NOT lose credibility) people who invested don't lose their investiment and the miners can mine with a good profitabilty

things should be done step by step and after a reflexion times, do you see forks of coins right and left in the altcoin forums? the simple answer is no and there is a reason for that.

[rizardus]

u dont know but without hashrate there will be no confirmation in network, u cant spend your catcoins cause it will take forever to transfer, fork is needed cause ppl will start mining again meaby

[Nullu]

It's all well and good if those of us who want to support CatCoin do so, but if it drops far enough on the exchanges they'll just delist the coin, and the little remaining hashpower we have left will be gone.

I really do think the support the community is giving this is fantastic, but I'm not sure if combined we have enough power to get Catcoin to the next difficulty level. I'm all in favour of hearing ideas, but there does seem to be a 50/50 split about the forking idea.

Forking the coin would fix this problem, but it would also change the dynamic of the coin. Not forking would leave the coin as it is, but risk it not rising to success. I wish we could have it both ways, but we can't.  Not unless you want Catcoin to fork into two seperate coins, then the question is going to split down the middle again; which one keeps the Catcoin name?

No matter what we decide there will be division. The sensible thing would be to put it to do a proper vote.

Anyway, as I said before a decision doesn't have to be taken right now, but the longer we wait, the more momentum we'll lose, so there is that to consider.

[CatCoinForums]

The majority wants best for this coin and that option is to fork it... we cant keep going on like this, its awful and bad for the coin. Accept it and accept the community's decision and lets move on and forget about this hiccup..

You can't speak for the majority, there is at least 400+ catcoin supporters, only 4 people expressed their opinion on a fork

I'm not against forking, what I'm against is unilateral rushed decisions
Forking is one way of doing thing, now the first step is to get other people opinion with a vote or something similars so it's more democratic and other people that are against will have no choice but to accept the results as it is a majority choice

Secondly and like I explaned in my previous poste, we should it things slowly, we have one chance, if we screwed we are done for, discuss the advantages and drawbacks for every single change and come up with a solid plan to present to exchanges (so the coin DOES NOT lose credibility) people who invested don't lose their investiment and the miners can mine with a good profitabilty

things should be done step by step and after a reflexion times, do you see forks of coins right and left in the altcoin forums? the simple answer is no and there is a reason for that.

If you want a community vote, then that's fine.. im fed up with your bickering and sarky comments at most of the members in this thread. So stop your bitch ass winging and let the vote take place and we will see what the community wants.

http://www.catcoinforum.com/showthread.php?tid=249

Vote now for Yes or No.

[campeck]

make a poll dev!

[zerodrama]

It's all well and good if those of us who want to support CatCoin do so, but if it drops far enough on the exchanges they'll just delist the coin, and the little remaining hashpower we have left will be gone.

I really do think the support the community is giving this is fantastic, but I'm not sure if combined we have enough power to get Catcoin to the next difficulty level. I'm all in favour of hearing ideas, but there does seem to be a 50/50 split about the forking idea.

Forking the coin would fix this problem, but it would also change the dynamic of the coin. Not forking would leave the coin as it is, but risk it not rising to success. I wish we could have it both ways, but we can't.  Not unless you want Catcoin to fork into two seperate coins, then the question is going to split down the middle again; which one keeps the Catcoin name?

No matter what we decide there will be division. The sensible thing would be to put it to do a proper vote.

The name thing can be avoided by making an emergency detection feature rather than forcing new constants.

It will be Catcoin plus panic mode.

Changing the coin values permanently makes it a new coin. It should just reboot at that point. With a new genesis block.

[envy2010]

it's a week old and $0.50 usd it saw $1.00usd it's first day in trade
there are 1000000+ coins plenty liquid
do any of you know how long it's taken bitcoin to touch any of that?

It's a week old and its NOT USABLE because the block times are so long. Bitcoin never had that problem. Catcoin is not liquid because transactions aren't happening. The network is not going to reach the next difficulty retarget for at least 2 months, and the coin will be dead long before then... if support drops down to only the die-hards then it will take YEARS to reach the retarget.

If the retarget isn't changed the coin has zero chance. None.

[Nullu]

it's a week old and $0.50 usd it saw $1.00usd it's first day in trade
there are 1000000+ coins plenty liquid
do any of you know how long it's taken bitcoin to touch any of that?

It's a week old and its NOT USABLE because the block times are so long. Bitcoin never had that problem. Catcoin is not liquid because transactions aren't happening. The network is not going to reach the next difficulty retarget for at least 2 months, and the coin will be dead long before then... if support drops down to only the die-hards then it will take YEARS to reach the retarget.

If the retarget isn't changed the coin has zero chance. None.

Kind of have to agree. The coin has to be usable for it to be worth anything. People don't just trade money in real life, they spend it. If you can't spend CAT, that's a problem.