[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[BrainShutdown]

Here, here!

https://dashtalk.org/threads/pre-proposal-discussion-openbazaar-dash-integration.6379/

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[moocowmoo]

https://www.dashwhale.org/p/dashwhale-basic

where is the voting code line i need ?
nothing on dct ?!?
(i am not signed up at the whales)

Or you could use my new dashman voting functionality. 
(shameless self-plug bump)

https://github.com/moocowmoo/dashman

Added new (beta) command "dashman vote"
 - automates vote submission
 - randomizes vote timestamps up to one day in the past to help disassociate ownership
 - requires:
    - dash-cli in $PATH
    - masternode.conf in $HOME/.dash
    - python 2


This is a beta release.
Worst case it crashes harmlessly, but let me know and I'll push fixes.
For now, it only submits votes. It doesn't know anything about previously submitted votes.
The network only accepts "YES" and "NO" votes, selecting "ABSTAIN" simply doesn't do anything and will not affect a previously cast vote.
This may change in the future to allow for removing a previously cast vote from the network.

[qwizzie]

Round 2 is a go ! : https://dashtalk.org/threads/qwizzies-cryptogram-puzzle-round-1.6372/



* to keep things official (and organised) pls post the solution on the dashtalk forum...
* will toknormal break his personal record of 20 minutes ?
* will stan.distortion melt his poor old wrinkled brain trying to solve it ?

Edit : and yes, this one might be a bit more tricky

[qwizzie]

Round 2 is a go ! : https://dashtalk.org/threads/qwizzies-cryptogram-puzzle-round-1.6372/



* to keep things official (and organised) pls post the solution on the dashtalk forum...
* will toknormal break his personal record of 20 minutes ?
* will stan.distortion melt his poor old wrinkled brain trying to solve it ?

Edit : and yes, this one might be a bit more tricky

and we have a winner : calnaughtonjnr
congratz !!

[qwizzie]

Round 2 is a go ! : https://dashtalk.org/threads/qwizzies-cryptogram-puzzle-round-1.6372/



* to keep things official (and organised) pls post the solution on the dashtalk forum...
* will toknormal break his personal record of 20 minutes ?
* will stan.distortion melt his poor old wrinkled brain trying to solve it ?

Edit : and yes, this one might be a bit more tricky

and we have a winner : calnaughtonjnr
congratz !!

Grats I'm lost where we even are at this stage, Cal got that one so quickly I didn't even see it I was on one with a bear at the bottom and 8 words, think it was on bitcoin.com :/

yep, that one is still open ... lets hope Cal doesn't read this  
But actually i'm doing that one seperately through that Bitcoin forum, not the Dashtalk forum

edit : see, i left a little clue for Cal 

[dashwhale]

I went through all your ideas. Thank you very much for this awesome active dispute so far, guys. I condensed all concerns to one central issue:

How to allow an active and easy democratic process for budget decisions with raising amount of proposals?


The issues:
1. We will have 10-20 proposals per month in the near future
2. With high amounts of proposals it's illusional to do the discussion in multiple threads of the Dashtalk forum (untructured, unprofessional information process)
3. Information get lost. To cope with this we need one central place to be.
4. Budget review, discussion and voting has to be easy for high voting participation
5. From finance and technical perspective it's not possible to do proposal presentation & discussion on a "decentralized platform" within reasonable time and money

Possible solutions:
1. Core team puts up a +10k USD proposal to create a new "centralized" platform (compareable to Dashwhale)
2. Core team looses focus and implements a "decentralized" proposal presentation and discussion feature. To my opinion technically challenging if not impossible within reasonable time. Somebody external will charge about 50-500k USD
3. Sit and wait. Ignoring the issues outlined above decreases quality of the democratic process, leading to a) malallocation of funds b) loss of ideas c) loss of central discussion issues by time => hurting DASH investor value
4. Monetize Dashwhale like any other website. Monetizing Dashwhale a regular way hurts open access to the platform and impairs democratic process (ads, highlighted proposals)
5. Invest 2% of the total budget for 6 month to see, if Dashwhale can solve these issues relevant for every masternode owner and every DASH owner.

Best,
Rango

Voting: mnbudget vote-many 4f8b12279629b8126ba7b1a378cd3ef6e3bb88d7fb04cb6db424edf4c95f6780 yes / no

[qwizzie]

Dash dead it sems

You are absolutely right, will you come to Dash's funeral ?

edit : oh shoot i forgot, Zombies are not allowed.. sorry

[patrolman]

I went through all your ideas. Thank you very much for this awesome active dispute so far, guys. I condensed all concerns to one central issue:

How to allow an active and easy democratic process for budget decisions with raising amount of proposals?


The issues:
1. We will have 10-20 proposals per month in the near future
2. With high amounts of proposals it's illusional to do the discussion in multiple threads of the Dashtalk forum (untructured, unprofessional information process)
3. Information get lost. To cope with this we need one central place to be.
4. Budget review, discussion and voting has to be easy for high voting participation
5. From finance and technical perspective it's not possible to do proposal presentation & discussion on a "decentralized platform" within reasonable time and money

Possible solutions:
1. Core team puts up a +10k USD proposal to create a new "centralized" platform (compareable to Dashwhale)
2. Core team looses focus and implements a "decentralized" proposal presentation and discussion feature. To my opinion technically challenging if not impossible within reasonable time. Somebody external will charge about 50-500k USD
3. Sit and wait. Ignoring the issues outlined above decreases quality of the democratic process, leading to a) malallocation of funds b) loss of ideas c) loss of central discussion issues by time => hurting DASH investor value
4. Monetize Dashwhale like any other website. Monetizing Dashwhale a regular way hurts open access to the platform and impairs democratic process (ads, highlighted proposals)
5. Invest 2% of the total budget for 6 month to see, if Dashwhale can solve these issues relevant for every masternode owner and every DASH owner.

Best,
Rango

Voting: mnbudget vote-many 4f8b12279629b8126ba7b1a378cd3ef6e3bb88d7fb04cb6db424edf4c95f6780 yes / no

Would it be possible to separate the budget proposal aspect of the website from the masternode monitoring part of Dashwhale? Maybe having separate sites and a more appropriate domain name for the budget proposal site would be a good idea. At the moment it seems to me like work on the masternode monitoring would be subsidised by the blockchain but most of the arguments we're hearing for this proposal refer to the budget proposal work.

I think you're probably right in saying that a decentralised platform for discussion of budget proposals would be costly and time consuming. My opinion is that ultimately it should be the goal too, but for now a centralised solution, be that Dashwhale, DashTalk etc. is fine. That said, I don't think the centralised platform dedicated to budget proposal discussions should be privy to information about which users cast which votes. I know it's not necessary to cast your votes there, but I feel a separating of functions would make things much clearer - I think it would be a mistake for new users to believe they have to vote on Dashwhale.

[Walter_S]

I went through all your ideas. Thank you very much for this awesome active dispute so far, guys. I condensed all concerns to one central issue:

How to allow an active and easy democratic process for budget decisions with raising amount of proposals?


The issues:
1. We will have 10-20 proposals per month in the near future
2. With high amounts of proposals it's illusional to do the discussion in multiple threads of the Dashtalk forum (untructured, unprofessional information process)
3. Information get lost. To cope with this we need one central place to be.
4. Budget review, discussion and voting has to be easy for high voting participation
5. From finance and technical perspective it's not possible to do proposal presentation & discussion on a "decentralized platform" within reasonable time and money

Possible solutions:
1. Core team puts up a +10k USD proposal to create a new "centralized" platform (compareable to Dashwhale)
2. Core team looses focus and implements a "decentralized" proposal presentation and discussion feature. To my opinion technically challenging if not impossible within reasonable time. Somebody external will charge about 50-500k USD
3. Sit and wait. Ignoring the issues outlined above decreases quality of the democratic process, leading to a) malallocation of funds b) loss of ideas c) loss of central discussion issues by time => hurting DASH investor value
4. Monetize Dashwhale like any other website. Monetizing Dashwhale a regular way hurts open access to the platform and impairs democratic process (ads, highlighted proposals)
5. Invest 2% of the total budget for 6 month to see, if Dashwhale can solve these issues relevant for every masternode owner and every DASH owner.

Best,
Rango

Voting: mnbudget vote-many 4f8b12279629b8126ba7b1a378cd3ef6e3bb88d7fb04cb6db424edf4c95f6780 yes / no

Would it be possible to separate the budget proposal aspect of the website from the masternode monitoring part of Dashwhale? Maybe having separate sites and a more appropriate domain name for the budget proposal site would be a good idea. At the moment it seems to me like work on the masternode monitoring would be subsidised by the blockchain but most of the arguments we're hearing for this proposal refer to the budget proposal work.

I think you're probably right in saying that a decentralised platform for discussion of budget proposals would be costly and time consuming. My opinion is that ultimately it should be the goal too, but for now a centralised solution, be that Dashwhale, DashTalk etc. is fine. That said, I don't think the centralised platform dedicated to budget proposal discussions should be privy to information about which users cast which votes. I know it's not necessary to cast your votes there, but I feel a separating of functions would make things much clearer - I think it would be a mistake for new users to believe they have to vote on Dashwhale.

I'm really caught in two minds about this proposal! Ultimately, I admire greatly what Rango has achieved, however, I see it as a commercial venture and one for which Rango needs to find a commercial business model with which to fund it - should he wish to develop it further. I don't doubt that the site is beneficial to the ecosystem as a whole, but it does set a dangerous precedent should a centralised commercial venture such as this gain blockchain funding.

I haven't made a decision which way to vote yet. I'm going to wait and see, hopefully we'll have some more discussion on the matter


Walter

P.S. I'm a masternode owner and I'm a happy user of dashwhale. I'd certainly consider paying a subscription for such a service if that was what's required to 'make it pay' for Rango. Do I think that my usage of the dashwhale website (an associated costs) should be 'socialised' and funded by the network as a whole? This is the bit that doesn't sit well with me imho...

[toknormal]

Somebody earlier on proposed a small subscription to Dashwhale from masternodes - like 1.23 Dash per month or something and that even with the current level of subscribers that would get them their funding. I sure pay that without hesitation but maybe Rango is planing to implement subscriptions on top of the blockchain budget. I don't know.

P.S. I found the post....it was Icebucket.

Why does Dashwhale not just charge those 130 whales 1,23 dash per month for the service that would come out to the 160 dash that he says he needs.
Surely a great service can be compensated if users like the platform.

But by the people actually using it.

[afbitcoins]

Can someone point me to more information about how to vote on budget proposals if you have a masternode.. ?

[crowning]

Can someone point me to more information about how to vote on budget proposals if you have a masternode.. ?

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Dash/masternode_payments_stats.html

[dazbarlby]

Can someone point me to more information about how to vote on budget proposals if you have a masternode.. ?

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Dash/masternode_payments_stats.html

That's a very nice addition. I use this page all the time and find it very useful.

Thank you

[afbitcoins]

Can someone point me to more information about how to vote on budget proposals if you have a masternode.. ?

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Dash/masternode_payments_stats.html

Thanks

[patrolman]

Can someone point me to more information about how to vote on budget proposals if you have a masternode.. ?

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Dash/masternode_payments_stats.html

Beat me to it How come the testing contribution one isn't listed on there?
EDIT: Sorry, compensate-testers:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/proposal-for-testnet-contributors-fund.6073/

Moocowmoo's tools look convenient:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/dashman-linux-masternode-mangement-made-mootastic.6376/
And Dashwhale ofc:
https://www.dashwhale.org/index.php

The Proposal for Testnet Contributors Fund was denied funding for the first superblock, about a month ago. If I'm not mistaken, to be considered for funding again another proposal would need to be lodged and the associated 5 Dash fee.

[crowning]

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Dash/masternode_payments_stats.html

Beat me to it How come the testing contribution one isn't listed on there?
EDIT: Sorry, compensate-testers:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/proposal-for-testnet-contributors-fund.6073/

No idea, it just shows the result of "mnbudget show", and for whatever reason this server did never get this proposal.

I just switched to its backup instance which works fine.

[patrolman]

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Dash/masternode_payments_stats.html

Beat me to it How come the testing contribution one isn't listed on there?
EDIT: Sorry, compensate-testers:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/proposal-for-testnet-contributors-fund.6073/

No idea, it just shows the result of mnbudget show, and for whatever reason this server did never get this proposal.

I just switched to its backup instance which works fine.

Does that mean we could vote for it now if we wanted to? Does a proposal denied funding ever get eliminated? It might not be such a problem now but over time those lists are going to be enormous!

[blokb]

...

Lol, Andreas sums it up nicely here There'll be a lot more than 50 before it's all over...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM
EDIT: The quote's at about 24 minutes

BTC vs DASH?
Andreas on fungibility(33:08).

[Jestah]

...

Lol, Andreas sums it up nicely here There'll be a lot more than 50 before it's all over...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM
EDIT: The quote's at about 24 minutes

BTC vs DASH?
Andreas on fungibility(33:08).

I would LOVE to see a DASH banner behind him.   

[TanteStefana2]

...
I just want to say that Evolution is probably not going to be explained in detail for quite some time.  It might even start out closed sourced just like DarkSend did.
...

Ahem... That's something that would get some seriously bad feeling from some of the geeks amongst us, open source isn't just a method, its a philosophy and there's a strong "us and them" aspect to it. Darksend wasn't released closed source, you and many others wanted the source kept secret on release but Evan went with keeping things open:

So KGW is working great, the fork went off with out a hitch and now we're whale proof! So I want to move on to the next topic. A few days ago I asked if we should open source the technology or not and the vast majority of you all want it to be open source, so we're going to do that. So, that being the case earlier today in #darkcoin we were discussing the anonymous technology (An improved variant of coinjoin built into the client) and we were brain storming names for it.

Since it's going to be opensource we want to brand it, if other coins add it the users will know where it came from. So we have these ideas, we want to do a sort of poll and see what everyone likes.
...

Not meaning to be bitchy about it but it's a much more serious issue than most windows users imagine Its something the FinTec crowd don't get when they're dealing with Bitcoin either, lots are touting their special, propitiatory "secret sauces" in attempts to monopolise the market without realising they're not just cutting themselves off from a seriously smart hivemind of geeks but making targets of themselves in the bargain.

I don't know any of that to be a fact, I'm guessing this might happen because I know Evan wants to protect the ideas from being stolen until we've got it working.  Now I don't see a problem with that.  I'm sure it'd be open sourced before actual implementation.  I don't think there is anything wrong with protecting our head start.  I know we need to be open sourced, but I don't see why we'd have to be open until it's actually in use (or about to be in use, with lead time for people to review what was changed).  And again, this is my guess, not trying to say I know what will happen