[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[tungfa]

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[coins101]

I hate to sound like a parrot but to me this time is kind of tipping point so allow me to share some more thoughts. I write this out of respect for Mangled Blue, Coins101, Tungfa, Tao, Tante, Renegade Man, qwizzie, Artoodeetoo, toknormal, oaxaca, Minotaur26, Alex-Ru... and several other members whose contributions I admire. Emphasis is on "several" others. I'll get back to it.

It only goes to show how much we are hated in crypto
DASH actually "does work"
We have over-come HUGE obstacles
I'm sure others could explain many things better but - simple fact - we are hated
A red-headed step-child
Our open-source code will continue to be molested....
...
Face it - CRYPTO HATE US!!!

LONG LIVE DASH!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not care if "crypto hate us" I wonder who LOVES us? There are only 3,045 members on Dash Talk (from 1,850 on November 5th 2014) and here we have only these several people talking among themselves here. And I see this little motley gang of enthusiasts being increasingly delusional. Forgive me this harsh word, I do not use it as negative as it may sound and count me in, regarding that "delusion," because had I had a grain of salt left in my brains I'd leave this dash thingy the very moment it lost its character and became what it is today.

Look at this example, Tao's passionate argument against "some negativity creeping through our normally positive thread," and focus on this bit:

We are in this project's infancy. Darksend has its bugs, InstantX does not work every time, and the UI of the wallet could use some work to be more user friendly. What are we in a rush to promote? People download the wallet, say this doesn't do what it's supposed to do and then discard and never come back.

ALL Tao has been doing since commencement of this Twitter et al. activities was to PROMOTE Darkcoin / DASH.

But now he asks "what are we in a rush to promote?" If there was ever a negative statement, that would spook me away this instant, is that sentence. (not to mention that famous Ben Hur, promotional video that takes forever)  Alas, "WHAT" in it is much worse to me, it frightens me. 18 months into development but the project does not know what it is. Of course no one is buying it. We can all mull over LTC and find gazillion issues with it (I, for one, never got why that thing even existed) but it is CLEAR what LTC is, a "lite" version of BTC.

Discussion, over at Dash Talk about its mission and vision has these two interesting bits:

"Dash’s mission is to deliver safe and reliable financial solutions to consumers and merchants in a decentralized manner - providing greater economic freedom to its users."
&
"Vision statement: People and businesses use Dash as digital money for everyday financial transactions."

To which Alex-Ru replied with:

"Dash is about creation of payment system of the future, created by decentralized community to replace current financial system for whole humanity to prosper."

I was screaming from the top of my lungs (as GreyGhost over there at DT) how losing its IDENTITY (as Darkcoin) might kill this technologically great project. Thus far I can't say for sure I was right (after all I still cling on my MN) but every passing day I see that bland, tasteless, wanting to be loved by all but ignored by (almost) everyone DASH as the ONLY one in that crypto space ("that hates us") without its character. Damn it, even that Dogecoin that I do not get at all, or that ripped for pillage Ripple have their IDENTITY but we don't.

I would rather be a laughing stock for a day or a month or even several months and yes, admit a horrible mistake, ditch the DASH name, go back to Darkcoin if I wanted it to be a real, revolutionary financial instrument that focuses on other lunatic fringes all over the world, that need privacy, be it freedom fighters in Tibet struggling against communist destruction of their ancient land, be it supporting Occupy, Snowden or Assange in that other totalitarian system (the U.S.) or to focus on immigrants and displaced all over the world that do not have bank account but have mobile phones (hint) etc., and build it from the scratch or find some other name that would DEFINE IDENTITY of Evan tech vision in two, three, succinct terms, one simple sentence max.

Than we'll have a platform to really push Self-sustainable Decentralized Governance by Blockchain as yet another brilliant idea that can change the world. But hoping to "change the world" from the top (mass adoption delusion) is as deranged as sending a petition to Obama asking him to do "X" or "Y" while you are his (his masters) victim.

And on a personal, gut level, of how I feel about all of this, I sense a paradox of a crypto century. Whomever was pushing re-branding of the name Darkcoin under the false pretense that its name will kill it (coupled with that other wishful thinking of "big retailers" "adopting DASH but not Darkcoin" and "big exchanges" "listing DASH but not Darkcoin," neither of which had happened and is not likely to happen) had created a new name, a lukewarm detergent sounding bland nonsense that might end up killing it instead.

Nomen est omen, do not forget this ancient truth, you children of today, Nomen est omen.

 

You've raised some very salient points Wozzek. As I've stated before, I don't agree with some of your assessments about the name change (as I've previously mentioned, 'Darkcoin' was just never going to be workable for anything other than a very tiny sliver of humanity that would identify with such a brand) but I do appreciate your articulation of (what's becoming clear to me) a somewhat mixed up approach on what it is we have here, and how we're getting the message out.

Tao, while I really appreciate your extraordinary energy and focus on tweeting Dash news, stating "some negativity creeping through our normally positive thread," like it's "bad" I think is poorly characterising an attempt to discuss the reality of the situation. We HAVE TO have open discussions about what's working and what's potentially not. As a contributor to this thread, I don't appreciate being told "quit your belly-aching and put your efforts into supporting the project" when I'm trying to stimulate genuine conversation about what the likely challenge is we're experiencing.

There is clearly a marketing/positioning issue with Dash and it's not going to go away by ignoring it. Some of Wozzek's (effectively) "all things to all people" complaint has validity. The worst thing would be to just ignore him because his view doesn't meet with our group-think view on how we're going to make Dash successful.

Perhaps this isn't the most appropriate forum to discuss this but there's clearly the need to sort through some stuff as I'm of the view there's now some level of confusion as to what Dash is and who it's for.

Actually, I think the project has never had a better focus.

Do one thing and do it well. Digital Cash.

That's the flag at the top of the hill that the project team have stated needs to be captured.

I'd spend money on cleaning up the current logo. It's only about 80% there for my liking. It needs a little more simplification.

Dash is doing what it needs to do at this point. Get really good at doing one thing better than everyone else. From that base you can build an empire.

Bitcoin is looking really strong at this point with Lightning and Side chains. Two innovations that are going to be exceptional when delivered.

What we'll have is Bitcoin and Dash leading the charge against Visa, Mastercard, PayPal, ApplePay, etc.  Two strong crypto projects taking on the establishment. You don't have to beat them to win. You just need to be accepted as an option in the landscape to win.

Wallets have slots for several cards. Smartphones with good memory can handle many more wallets. Being one of the best means you rise to the top of that noisy landscape.

I gave up trying to talk about mass adoption, so I'm doing something about it.  If you don't go through official channels, you get shit thrown at you. I'm big enough to cope with that.  Watch this space.

[splawik21]

Nice photo
The position of the moon corrisponds ~11:36 p.m.
@ 3:00 a.m. the moon is in the top of the sky

[toknormal]

That Node40 thing looks really interesting.

To me that looks like one of the most exciting developments in the Dash ecosystem in a long while.

[coins101]

That Node40 thing looks really interesting.

To me that looks like one of the most exciting developments in the Dash ecosystem in a long while.

I love what they have done and are doing. But they have a problem. Their ultimate goal as a commercial venture has to be to operate all master nodes.

Discuss.

[wozzek23]

I am truncating both my previous post and the Renegade's just to make this easier to peruse...

Nomen est omen, do not forget this ancient truth, you children of today, Nomen est omen.

You've raised some very salient points Wozzek. As I've stated before, I don't agree with some of your assessments about the name change (as I've previously mentioned, 'Darkcoin' was just never going to be workable for anything other than a very tiny sliver of humanity that would identify with such a brand) but I do appreciate your articulation of (what's becoming clear to me) a somewhat mixed up approach on what it is we have here, and how we're getting the message out.
...
There is clearly a marketing/positioning issue with Dash and it's not going to go away by ignoring it. Some of Wozzek's (effectively) "all things to all people" complaint has validity. The worst thing would be to just ignore him because his view doesn't meet with our group-think view on how we're going to make Dash successful.

Perhaps this isn't the most appropriate forum to discuss this but there's clearly the need to sort through some stuff as I'm of the view there's now some level of confusion as to what Dash is and who it's for.

While I'm not advocating going the route I'll mention later, I must state that "tiny sliver of humanity" (can it be tiniest from what we have now, several of us lunatics talking and even smaller number of brilliant programmers developing the tech) might be a myopic view as well as long as the "humanity" is deemed as legal, banks enabled and governments enslaved population as a whole.

However, there's the "second biggest economy in the world" we overlooked, the whole shadow economy, estimated at about 20% of the world's trade **, that would greatly benefit from what Darkcoin offers. Remittance business is part of it but "cleaner" so I wonder, why not put some efforts into this market or any other. As I stated numerous times, you support Greenwald and / or Assange, they acknowledge that and voila!, as a "side effect" you have a huge number of their followers suddenly being aware of an instrument that would help them help the cause they love. Man, the people FEAR supporting Wiki-leaks because of this fascist snooping but do not have an alternative Darkcoin might have offered.

If we moved toward the markets that NEEDS us, instead of delusionally striving to get on, what do I know, Amazon dot com and it's ilks (these mythical "big retailers" and / or "big exchanges" I am beating to the pulp, sorry) we'd be able to have a sense of progress, even if only 1 out of 100 "entities" accept us.

Mind you, a project once it is out attracts other people, other businesses, creates other ideas so, what do I know, a Meetup in Hong Kong or Manila could ask the venue (hey, they have 10 - 20 - 100 people coming regularly) to accept a new form of payment, a coin, be it Darkcoin as well. You do not live in a bubble like we here seem to be living, stubbornly insisting on a wrong approach. (mass adoption)

No one is going to adopt us unless the alternative does it firstly. You know, after our lunatic fringe, the first adopters etc., and only the power of numbers can force / create an environment that might enable serious growth in "conservative" businesses, for the lack of a better word. While this is a bit stretched to include in this discussion, ponder Apple vs. Taylor battle. Apple is one of the most fascist corporations in the world, creating a bevy of fanatics following their every marketing nonsense but they crush you as you would a bug if you don't obey their policy. Only that blonde, because of enormous power of her followers was able to force them change their ridiculous stance on that three months free stipulation.

We are no one, no where to be seen. We must look for allies in our natural habitat, among the people that need what we offfer.

Evan is genius, right. But how many truly revolutionary features he and the team can come up after:
-- InstantX;
-- DarkSend;
-- Masternode Blinding;
-- Decentralized Governance?
are already out? Instant-aner-XY?

All those great innovations did not create even a ripple effect in the crypto ocean. No one gives a flying fuck, let us face it no matter how painful the truth might seem. I am sending the money (USD) to a fucked up country in the vicinity of Greece, week after week now, and I have to pay $10.00 to $20.00 fee for any amount, no matter how small and my friend has to pay additional 4.25% fee on the exchange rate. How to improve that? How to embed, yes, Darkcoin / Dash / XY into a normal economy (exchange for fiat) because the dream of Dash based economy is an utter nonsense, when we think about a year, five, ten or more years from now...

How do you sell "DASH", tell me, when someone familiar with the BitCOIN or DogeCOIN asks you what is it? How do you start, it is not a coin, but... it is currency no, not the currency, digital cash... all that in the world (our, so-called "developed") in which 99% of all cash is digital, in the world in VISA performs the same function as InstantX for ages, in the world in which studies are coming out how wasteful Bitcoin mining is.

How to utilize Masternodes to do some Useful Computing? How to make all of this USEFUL for these that NEED, either MN's ability to compute, or this technology's ability to - almost for FREE - instantaneously transport the store of value from one side of the world to another, without prying eyes of criminals or criminal governments etc., etc., etc.

Darkcoin had its identity. It might have been wrong -- not for me for even if it really symbolizes something dark, even better, we are all, the whole fucking world are in the dark, under enormous shadow of less then friendly governments, no matter how they call themselves -- but had its identity. This DASH ("we are not the coin") thing does not.

I still honestly want to be proven wrong, but I would not badger on this issue unless I deeply believed DASH was a mistake of the century, that hastily done, under false pretense re-branding process. And now we pester over some video that needs eternity to be done and that would, only because it has taken so much time, provoke negative reactions once it is out.

The technology is RADICAL and REVOLUTIONARY. Everything around it is not.


** more on the shadow economy: http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/10/28/the-shadow-superpower/

[toknormal]

I love what they have done and are doing. But they have a problem. Their ultimate goal as a commercial venture has to be to operate all master nodes.

Discuss.

Yes. I suppose thats a point.

But I don't really see the problem with a single entity 'operating' them. It's ownership of the collateral that has to be ideally distributed.

[illodin]

I love what they have done and are doing. But they have a problem. Their ultimate goal as a commercial venture has to be to operate all master nodes.

If their business model is profitable, then competition will eventually arrive. If they actually do manage to host all masternodes at some point and there's still no competition in sight, we'll know they are government agents or some other entity that gets their funding from selling or using the collected data.

[illodin]

-- Decentralized Governance?

All those great innovations did not create even a ripple effect in the crypto ocean. No one gives a flying fuck, let us face it no matter how painful the truth might seem.

This could change when/if it's ready and working. I would imagine a lot of developers would love to get a piece of the tens of thousands of dollars of funding each month.

[coins101]

I love what they have done and are doing. But they have a problem. Their ultimate goal as a commercial venture has to be to operate all master nodes.

Discuss.

Yes. I suppose thats a point.

But I don't really see the problem with a single entity 'operating' them. It's ownership of the collateral that has to be ideally distributed.

If they operate all of them, or a meaningful number, you could hear the faint whispers of sybil threat being discussed by the trolls as their next line of attack.

The IP address is more important than the collateral when too many are located in one place. But these are technical points on launching sybil attacks. That's above my pay grade.

edits

[coins101]

I love what they have done and are doing. But they have a problem. Their ultimate goal as a commercial venture has to be to operate all master nodes.

If their business model is profitable, then competition will eventually arrive. If they actually do manage to host all masternodes at some point and there's still no competition in sight, we'll know they are government agents or some other entity that gets their funding from selling or using the collected data.

I've run some numbers.

The economics don't stack up for another big player.  There are already lots of great Master Node hosting services, but Node40 are doing what great tech companies do, disruptive innovation.  They are making it trivial to run your own node.

If they open source their code to make it easier for others to compete with them, they lose their revenue.  If they don't, they get stronger and run more nodes.

Node40 is one of the best projects outside of the core project team's focus. How can you have misgivings about something so great?  What a dilemma.

[toknormal]

If they operate all of them, or a meaningful number, you could hear the faint whispers of sybil threat being discussed by the trolls as their next line of attack.

The IP address is more important than the collateral when too many are located in one place.

If thats a realistic threat then obviously it's something that needs to ideally be addressed in the protocol. I know the trolls will jump on it whether it is or not, but I don't really care about that. I think reality is important though.

[toknormal]

Bitcon 4-hour MACD.

I don't think I ever saw such a perfectly presented sell signal...



It looks so safe I'm almost inclined to get my paper wallets out, fire up QT and dump all of my holdings on BTCe to buy back in at the end of the correction.

Problem is, I can't be bothered with the hassle any more. That was last years "fun".

Think I'll just go swimming instead

[HinnomTX]

I love what they have done and are doing. But they have a problem. Their ultimate goal as a commercial venture has to be to operate all master nodes.

Discuss.

Yes. I suppose thats a point.

But I don't really see the problem with a single entity 'operating' them. It's ownership of the collateral that has to be ideally distributed.

They could use your collateral to operate malicious masternodes. It's actually a dangerous business model from a decentralization perspective, and it preys on laziness and ignorance.

[iCEBREAKER]

Bill Cassidy Interviews the team behind automated Dash Masternode setup service http://node40.com/. Dash is the first Cryptocurrency focused on anonymity and privacy and Node40 is building their business around the project.

They make the process of setting up a Dash Masternode simple, secure, and easy for customers to monitor.

Sounds like those Node40 people have built a good masternode hosting service.

Looks like a Money Service (or laundering/HYIP) Business to me.  I hope Node40 has a good law firm, and/or is domiciled outside of FATCA's long reach.

[coins101]

I love what they have done and are doing. But they have a problem. Their ultimate goal as a commercial venture has to be to operate all master nodes.

Discuss.

Yes. I suppose thats a point.

But I don't really see the problem with a single entity 'operating' them. It's ownership of the collateral that has to be ideally distributed.

They could use your collateral to operate malicious masternodes. It's actually a dangerous business model from a decentralization perspective, and it preys on laziness and ignorance.

Not sure that's possible as they operate a cold wallet model - but they do operate pools, which is not the issue.

I don't think its dangerous to make things easier. It opens up investment to non-tech people. That could make things more decentralized.

What they are doing is also great for MN up time. There is also less disruption when updates happen.  That means you're not at risk of sybil attacks during an update. As a user of Darksend, that would be good to know, well, not care about.

edit

For what its worth, I would rather people used their service or one of the other great MN hosting services than get put off running one because the effort is too much.

[iCEBREAKER]

There are only 3,045 members on Dash Talk (from 1,850 on November 5th 2014) and here we have only these several people talking among themselves here. And I see this little motley gang of enthusiasts being increasingly delusional.

I was screaming from the top of my lungs (as GreyGhost over there at DT) how losing its IDENTITY (as Darkcoin) might kill this technologically great project. Thus far I can't say for sure I was right (after all I still cling on my MN) but every passing day I see that bland, tasteless, wanting to be loved by all but ignored by (almost) everyone DASH as the ONLY one in that crypto space ("that hates us") without its character.

I would rather be a laughing stock for a day or a month or even several months and yes, admit a horrible mistake, ditch the DASH name, go back to Darkcoin if I wanted it to be a real, revolutionary financial instrument

Whomever was pushing re-branding of the name Darkcoin under the false pretense that its name will kill it (coupled with that other wishful thinking of "big retailers" "adopting DASH but not Darkcoin" and "big exchanges" "listing DASH but not Darkcoin," neither of which had happened and is not likely to happen) had created a new name, a lukewarm detergent sounding bland nonsense that might end up killing it instead.

I've distilled your post down to the best bits, and it's a welcome relief from the usual RAH! RAH! RAH! CLAP LOUDER! cheerleading BS.  Good catch on asking what happened to the glittering promises of "big exchange" adoption and VC backing, but I wish you had mentioned the new dev mining tax (IE perpetual ICO) in that context as well.

The 'Ben Hur' promo is at this point more like Jodorowsky's Dune (Ben Hur was actually finished, released, won awards, etc).   

It didn't help that the supposedly widely-discussed "lukewarm detergent sounding bland nonsense" rebranding came as a surprise to, and pulled the rug out from under, its producers.

Now let's pick up the pom-poms and go back to encouraging large, centralized pools of a Proof of Stake coin in the form of Masternode hosting services.  What could go possibly go wrong with that?  It worked fine for NXT and BTer, AMIRITE?   

[kointrend]

Bitcon 4-hour MACD.

I don't think I ever saw such a perfectly presented sell signal...



It looks so safe I'm almost inclined to get my paper wallets out, fire up QT and dump all of my holdings on BTCe to buy back in at the end of the correction.

Problem is, I can't be bothered with the hassle any more. That was last years "fun".

Think I'll just go swimming instead

Lol!
 Indeed the better choice! Last year was an hell but never I was been so happy and sun-tanned like this year!:D

[ddink7]

Yep 'seasoned' frustration as, on a purely personal level, I've not yet made a dime from DASH and am considerably underwater with it. Frustrating when I think of people who've probably taken part in the pumps in a far more ruthless fashion and have done okay whilst the rest of us 'here for the long haul' wonder what we're doing when cryptos as banal and lacking in substance as LTC take off again and leave DASH wilting.

I agree. It's the worst kind of frustrating to know that you've lost (on paper) a ton of money by backing a superior technology, and knowing that if you had invested in some shitcoin you'd have made a fortune (assuming you got out in time, of course).

In the end, I think the superior tech will make the difference, but for now, I've given up all hope of coming back to even. With the state of crypto in general right now, I'm thinking it will be YEARS before anything actually happens. It's frustrating and occasionally depressing, but I think in the very long run we will have made the right call. Just don't expect anything for at least five years, and it's easier to avoid disappointment.

[Kienbui]

I'm seeing some negativity creeping through our normally positive thread due to the latest developments in the markets.

I'm sorry to the people who hate this sort of thing, but I don't have a negative bone in my body. In fact the only thing negative about me is my blood type (O-negative). Therefore, I must continue to fight for the forces of good in this thread...  

There are those who are running out of patience. I know people bought into this coin at varying stages, and are at various levels of loss. This, however, does not take away from the fact that we are all here to see this thing through. Yes, there are coins out there that are inferior to Dash that are getting pumped, but does that not make you see that we are different in this industry? We are not a coin to be pumped and dumped anymore.

This is a coin with a long term vision. Evan doesn't go on these podcasts and declare "We will compete with Bitcoin" for his health! The core team here knows how special this project is. Sure, it started out as a privacy-oriented coin in the beginning, but then Evan discovered InstantX and realized that with the team we have in place here, we can do big things.

We are in this project's infancy. Darksend has its bugs, InstantX does not work every time, and the UI of the wallet could use some work to be more user friendly. What are we in a rush to promote? People download the wallet, say this doesn't do what it's supposed to do and then discard and never come back.

Now, if we do this the right way, and I'm sure the dev team would back me up on this, we do develop, we do keep to ourselves, we do gel as a community and produce something really awesome. Something that works everytime with the push of a button. Something so easy to use, any non-technical person could use it with ease, and on any device. Then, we crank up the DGBB funds to promote the hell out of it. With adoption, comes the cherished price increases that everyone here is so want to see.

If you want pumps and dumps, try Litecoin. If you want to be part of a project that could one day change the world, stay right here. But if you stay here, understand that the crew here wants to produce Digital Cash, and we are not messing around in that endeavor. If you build it, they will come, and let's face it, we haven't built it yet. Why should they come?

In a few years, if we are still at this point, it will be time to re-evaluate.

Until then, respectfully, to all the people who are frustrated, quit your belly-aching and put your efforts into supporting the project. The rewards you desire will come in time...

Tao

I check this thread nearly everyday.

And I strongly believe in the technology, the development team and the future of Dash. Because not only people need digital cash but also the Internet of Things need digital cash for things exchange value over the Internet.

Imagine one day when we have the rooftop can generate electricity and get Dash, and we drive electric car running on the way, when it run out of energy, the car automatically find somewhere to recharge its battery and pay by Dash the roof had earned. All those happened seamlessly without any intervention of human.

After the Decentralize Governance by Blockchain complete, we will have more budget for development and more innovations.

Dash only is in its baby steps.