[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[toknormal]

Tok, what we are doing here is testing the ground anyway.
We tried the DS and IX putting into the wallet and it is incorporated with success would say.
IF this new feature will ever see the day light it will have to be done in the same way which will get (even no-techy) people`s integrity and acceptance. This solution IMO should not have been mandatory and activated from the option menu to be activated or not.

ok. Now that I've aired that aspect of brand identity and technological authenticity I'm happy with whatever they do 

[1714466785]

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[1714466785]

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[RenegadeMan]

Evan I like that idea too...we will have an extra kicking safe wallet though...

Hang on a minute. I think it's important not to drift unconsciously into uncharted waters. (Drifting "consciously" is ok   ).

IMO, Dash as a product / brand needs to be either very LIKE bitcoin or very UNLIKE it. i.e. I think it's important to have a conscious strategy of either TOTAL compatibility and consistency in almost every aspect with bitcoin, or a completely distinct identity and feel.

My own preference is for the total consistency and compatibility route. I have 25 years uninterrupted full time professional experience in business software development and user interface design and one of the banana skins I'm constantly aware of in this sector is that something that looks like "a great feature" to you can look a totally alien impediment to someone else who's used to some aspects of the design but not others. It can make them feel like they're in a non-authentic environment and that can offset any advantages the feature has. (There are of course constructive ways to implement alternative features which are not in people's faces - Dash has been very good at doing this IMO).

One of the huge advantages Dash has is that a Bitcoin user can make a seamless transition from the bitcoin environment and feel totally at home with Dash. However, that advantage can be lost with something as simple as a colour background difference which new users can find off putting due to simple unfamiliarity.

Having the QT wallet a'la Bitcoin with the extra mixing features is a great think IMO. It's exactly like bitcoin QT in every respect and the only thing that stands out is the distinct functionality advantage Dash has. There's no loss of authenticity by playing about with non-standard colours or other gimmickry.

I'm not trying to lay down any law here or say close any doors, just saying that this area (lets call it "tech-authenticity" for discussion's sake, which means people migrating from bitcoin feel they are in an authentic environment) is extremely important IMO and should be navigated consciously rather than unconsciously.

Take Bitshares or NxT for example. They've got the total "distinct" route. A user is in no doubt that they are in a non-bitcoin environment. The clients are nothing like QT. That's a good thing IMO. Dash needs to beware of falling in to the crevice  between the authentic vs alternative world and stake it's identity out firmly.

Sorry for the rant - just had to get that off my chest   Have a nice day !

Good post Tok. Anyone that's been responsible for user interfaces (and the 'updating' of them) over so many years will have a particular set of experiences at just how risky it is introducing new features and functions in the belief it will be beneficial, but can often result in an adverse response from users. The Windows 8.1 'Metro' interface is probably a good example, with it's removal of the Windows Start button and the introduction of the wretched Charms bar and other finger swiping mechanisms that make no sense on a regular PC, it was universally hated (yet one can see what Microsoft was attempting to do from a mobile computing angle).

I agree with what you're saying about needing to carefully think whether we're aligning ourselves with the Bitcoin QT wallet and the ethos surrounding its development, use and the now extensive knowledge of what that concept represents or whether we're looking to differentiate ourselves completely onto an all new break-away concept for crypto 'money' that presents something quite different.

This goes right back to re-establishing clearly in mind what the design goals of Dash are, who the target market users are (and since we moved to the name Dash I'm not certain we're all that clear about that) and what human challenge, or need for improvement, Dash addresses.

I remember many years ago in the mid nineties when I worked for a Seattle based software company that had a very successful terminal emulation product, the company founder who also headed up the design team steered the product into all new channels to take advantage of the new 32 bit Windows environment that had just come onto the scene with Win95. He had this higher overarching view on creating more sophisticated ways of interrogating a mainframe's database and built-in to the product this quite advanced query tool that allowed a user to extract information with customised views and ability to build automated queries that could easily populate spreadsheets and other applications. At the time it was very whiz bang and we took it to our customers who were very excited, until....

About 6 weeks after this new version was released and all these customers had upgraded, we started fielding dozens of calls and emails per day from existing users saying "where's the file transfer facility?" The previous version had this very simple file transfer interface not dissimilar to PuTTY - PC on the left hand side, host system on the right with a button in the middle that had an arrow you could toggle left or right depending on whether you wanted to download a file from the host system or send it up. It worked like a charm but had no ability to customise a query and alter what information populated which fields. But that query customisation was a capability that our design team thought was where the product needed to go and they put an enormous amount of effort into its design. But existing users had little interest in it because for all but maybe 2% it was entirely outside the paradigm of how they interacted with their mainframe systems. What the development team failed to do though was, not only provide an orderly or understandable migration pathway/road-map, but completely misunderstand how their product was being used out in the field. Pretty soon customers were screaming at us as many of them had other software packages that used an API into our product to kick-off the file transfer as a minor component in a much larger process. It was a nightmare and I'll never forget it as a case of developers having a "purest ideology" mindset with no comprehension of what was important to the current user-base and the need for gradual change and expectation management. In the end they had to rush out an add-on 32 bit module of this classic file transfer facility but it took a month or two and we lost some customers in the process as they simply couldn't use the upgraded product and couldn't go back the old either.

Sooo....before making changes to our wallet, it's incredibly important to establish (or re-iterate because I know a fair bit of this is already well honed):

What are the design goals of Dash?
Who and what sort of person makes up the target market?
Does alignment to the Bitcoin 'standard' (if it can be described that way) meet the requirements of those first two points?
Or does the user interface need to be quite different?

A simple change like an additional passcode over and above the encrypted wallet passcode that we (in this community who've been around for a while) think is perfectly rational could end up being a "what the hell...!?" moment for users because we haven't considered it properly.

[tungfa]

Jonathan LeVine Gallery Now Accepts Dash
http://bitcoinist.net/jonathan-levine-gallery-now-accepting-dash-payments/

very nice
this really brings a different visual style to BCT !!

Tx Node40 !
 

[pille]

There was a small page, showing expected MN earnings/day and much more. Simple text based with drinking smiley on the bottom. Can't remeber the url, can you help me please?

[Sub-Ether]

There was a small page, showing expected MN earnings/day and much more. Simple text based with drinking smiley on the bottom. Can't remeber the url, can you help me please?

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Darkcoin/masternode_payments_stats.html

[pille]

There was a small page, showing expected MN earnings/day and much more. Simple text based with drinking smiley on the bottom. Can't remeber the url, can you help me please?

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Darkcoin/masternode_payments_stats.html

Wow that was fast, thank you very much.

[aigeezer]

A simple change like an additional passcode over and above the encrypted wallet passcode that we (in this community who've been around for a while) think is perfectly rational could end up being a "what the hell...!?" moment for users because we haven't considered it properly.

With my own software over the years, my position has always been "let the user decide" rather than "one size fits all". I've avoided a lot of bunfights that way and the cost of dual implementation has been worth it. There is a risk of "featureitis" that has to be balanced, but, for me, "when in doubt, give them the option". If, over time, it turns out some feature is rarely used, then it can be removed to control bloat, but with relatively little drama.

Another angle on this - when/if we make the wrong choice about what people actually prefer then some altcoin will swoop in to make the other choice. Better that we close such doors in advance, imho.

[designerusa]

I was waiting for the raise but it looks like it goes parallel with Bitcoin.

[toknormal]

I remember many years ago in the mid nineties when I worked for a Seattle based software company that had a very successful terminal emulation product.......we started fielding dozens of calls and emails per day from existing users saying "where's the file transfer facility?

Very interesting story 'Man. Probably very typical - especially of that era !

I'll have a stab at your "Dragon's Den" questions. My contribution would be:

What are the design goals of Dash?

 • to address (within the primary blockchain) the one remaining monetary property if these six in which Bitcoin is deficient without adversely impinging on its core mining prototcol, blockchain prototcol or use characteristics

 • to lever its 2-tier architecture to address non-monetary technological shortfalls in the bitcion architecture, in particular those of inconsistent blocktime and scaleability limitations

 • to further lever its 2-tier architecture to address long term technological governance and developmental sustainability objectives in a decentralised way

Who and what sort of person makes up the target market?

There are 2 target markets with distinct audiences:

[1] - money markets
[2] - retail markets

The first is made up of currency traders who's job it is to establish the valuation for Dash as a monetary unit. The second is made up of commercial customers who trade goods and services for it. The first category is addressed by Dash getting its a*ss onto the big exchanges and by getting second-level financial services like Coinay to support it.

The second is fairly self evident and involves getting supported by coinbase / Bitpay type services. (Re. Bitpay, Dash might already be compatible). However, there is one target audience that Dash can immediately access which may be problematic for bitcoin. That is that Dash is fast enough to support realtime payments without any secondary POS layer. This means that any business can accept it with just a smartphone - it doesn't require any pre-emptive planning or equipment. This could be Dash's "foothold" or early adopters in Geoffrey Moore's model.

Does alignment to the Bitcoin 'standard' (if it can be described that way) meet the requirements of those first two points?

Yes, because Dash's primary objective (the fungibility one) is an expectation and requirement of Bitcion users anyway (since we're talking about a monetary property as opposed to a technological one).

Or does the user interface need to be quite different?

IMO No. I'd be happy with a very boring grey QT wallet with 2 additional buttons: Anonymise Standard and Anonymise High (No numerical levels).

[alex-ru]

I'll vote for an AES-256 "wrapper" for the DASH wallet.
While I understand the pro's and Con's but

We are security based privacy and a Password just to open the wallet would be a good thing
Also have a 1st time disclosure explaining the change

my 2 duffs

But... Why Bitcoin still didn't released such decision?
Maybe there is some reason?

[coins101]

A simple change like an additional passcode over and above the encrypted wallet passcode that we (in this community who've been around for a while) think is perfectly rational could end up being a "what the hell...!?" moment for users because we haven't considered it properly.

With my own software over the years, my position has always been "let the user decide" rather than "one size fits all". I've avoided a lot of bunfights that way and the cost of dual implementation has been worth it. There is a risk of "featureitis" that has to be balanced, but, for me, "when in doubt, give them the option". If, over time, it turns out some feature is rarely used, then it can be removed to control bloat, but with relatively little drama.

Another angle on this - when/if we make the wrong choice about what people actually prefer then some altcoin will swoop in to make the other choice. Better that we close such doors in advance, imho.

Have I entered the twilight zone?

The QT wallet is important. No doubt. Give people options. 100%.

But while everyone is talking about making the PC wallet work great (who can argue about that?), the masses are moving to mobile payment channels and NFC.

The PC running a crypto wallet is a bank account. The mobile wallet is the payment card that gets used 90% of the time (or that's where the market is shifting towards).

Mobile. Mobile. Mobile. And just for clarification: Mobile.

Make it easy, quick, secure and cheap.

[noobtrader]

A simple change like an additional passcode over and above the encrypted wallet passcode that we (in this community who've been around for a while) think is perfectly rational could end up being a "what the hell...!?" moment for users because we haven't considered it properly.

With my own software over the years, my position has always been "let the user decide" rather than "one size fits all". I've avoided a lot of bunfights that way and the cost of dual implementation has been worth it. There is a risk of "featureitis" that has to be balanced, but, for me, "when in doubt, give them the option". If, over time, it turns out some feature is rarely used, then it can be removed to control bloat, but with relatively little drama.

Another angle on this - when/if we make the wrong choice about what people actually prefer then some altcoin will swoop in to make the other choice. Better that we close such doors in advance, imho.

Have I entered the twilight zone?

The QT wallet is important. No doubt. Give people options. 100%.

But while everyone is talking about making the PC wallet work great (who can argue about that?), the masses are moving to mobile payment channels and NFC.

The PC running a crypto wallet is a bank account. The mobile wallet is the payment card that gets used 90% of the time (or that's where the market is shifting towards).

Mobile. Mobile. Mobile. And just for clarification: Mobile.

Make it easy, quick, secure and cheap.

agree... a mobile wallet with nfc, and desktop wallet with marketplace or at least coin arbitrage capability (can input multiple api key / coin etc)... that would be awesome (with MN fee or minimum dash in wallet address by entering signed messages etc).

 

[Rux]

some dumping on LTC ... 

market manipulation to the max

[Macrochip]

Looks like Peter Todd thinks belittling Dash's innovations is making Bitcoin's problems go away:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ddkhy/bitcoindev_significant_losses_by_doublespending/ct4cxfo

[Sub-Ether]

Looks like Peter Todd thinks belittling Dash's innovations is making Bitcoin's problems go away:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ddkhy/bitcoindev_significant_losses_by_doublespending/ct4cxfo

thankyou very much for the laughs, please keep em coming 

[toknormal]

Actual I think he is NOT belittling DASH
I just reads funny

Indeed. I'd be careful of making enemies unnecessarily.

I've never heard Peter Todd do any Dash bashing at all, in fact he's actually quite sympathetic to the whole 2-tier idea from the talks I've seen.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Looks like Peter Todd thinks belittling Dash's innovations is making Bitcoin's problems go away:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ddkhy/bitcoindev_significant_losses_by_doublespending/ct4cxfo

Sounds like the makings of a good tweet...

https://twitter.com/TaoOfSatoshi/status/621398135458426880?s=09

Please DELETE your tweet

Because it's you, I will.
EDIT: Done.

[Macrochip]

Actual I think he is NOT belittling DASH
I just reads funny

Indeed. I'd be careful of making enemies unnecessarily.

I've never heard Peter Todd do any Dash bashing at all, in fact he's actually quite sympathetic to the whole 2-tier idea from the talks I've seen.

By all means, feel free to correct my impression!
But isn't he calling the Dash community a cargo-cult?!
When you look at the whole conversation the thread starter even concurs with the impression of it being an insult.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Actual I think he is NOT belittling DASH
I just reads funny

Indeed. I'd be careful of making enemies unnecessarily.

I've never heard Peter Todd do any Dash bashing at all, in fact he's actually quite sympathetic to the whole 2-tier idea from the talks I've seen.

By all means, feel free to correct my impression!
But isn't he calling the Dash community a cargo-cult?!
When you look at the whole conversation the thread starter even concurs with the impression of it being an insult.

I took it that way, too. Maybe misunderstanding.

[newb4now]

Looks like Peter Todd thinks belittling Dash's innovations is making Bitcoin's problems go away:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ddkhy/bitcoindev_significant_losses_by_doublespending/ct4cxfo

Actual I think he is NOT belittling DASH
I just reads funny

He is definitely insulting DASH

"It's a copy of GreenAddress in the same way a cargo cult's bamboo runway is a copy"

Nothing wrong with receiving criticism from someone like him as it gives you something to work on.

After all DASH supporters did post in the bitcoin Reddit thread. Constructive criticism should be expected