[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[dnaleor]

Okay, that is a pretty convincing argument. I still think coming here and re-posting it over and over again is stupid.

I couldn't give a fuck less if Evan was the devil, using DASH to tempt people into eternal hell fire - by doing this, you make XMR look bad.

They asked for the proof

Not really seeing any proof. Just seeing a whole bunch of speculation.

But since you are being so helpful, maybe you could answer the question I posed a few pages back, to wit:

If Evan planned and significantly benefited from the instamine, why didn't he sell all his holdings in May 2014 for $11 per coin and then disappear, as so many crypto devs have done. Why does he continue to work full-time on the project?

Dumping a lot of coins probably wasn't possible on those highs. That's why he is still here.
Maybe he also likes travelling and the fact that he ca speak at conferences and get a "good guy" reputation.
Maybe he wants to do some consulting someday?

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[cryptonewb]

Um, masternodes will always do the mixing.  Only now they will do it in quorums.

this is new information...
This is a quote from Evan Duffield
"This system doesn't mix on masternodes at all. It's done on a protocol level.
And so, we actually don't like that we are mixing on masternodes and I wanted to remove that for a long time and I finally figuered out how to do it."

So masternodes will still be used for mixing?
This is a disappointment, I must admit 

[ddink7]

Look at the facts, not the supposed intent.

But intent is everything. The very definition of fraud requires that there be intent to defraud. Likewise, in every murder investigation, motive is one of the most important things that must be answered. It's possible to get a conviction without demonstrating a clear motive, but it's incredibly difficult.

If those statements are true, then it was instamined.

Dash was definitely instamined. The question is whether it was done on purpose and whether Evan benefited significantly from it. Let's look at what the troll says:

1) Evan ended up making Dash something that was actually useful, rather than a bitcoin clone with a different algorithm. He had "plans" for the coin but didn't announce them at launch. He waited until he had begun making progress with the code before announcing them.
--How is this a bad thing, exactly? Evan promised only one thing at launch, which was the one thing he had actually coded: Xcoin would use X11. At this time, in January 2014, every dev under the sun was promising the moon. Evan actually took the very reasonable step of underpromising and overdelivering. I fail to see how this is a bad thing?

2) Evan said he was looking to hire a programmer to start a for-profit coin which would be merge-mined.
--I've had a lot of plans in my life, and the vast majority of them didn't come to fruition. Still others have evolved over time into something else. If we're going to be strictly literal here, I could point out that Xcoin was at no point merge-mined with any other currency, and therefore can't be the project Evan was talking about starting.

3) Evan said he would postpone the launch and then launched a few hours later.
--I guess he changed his mind? Did he not publicly release the binaries and post on this thread when he did?

4) There were problems with the Windows binaries at launch.
--Show me a coin where this *isn't* the case. It's already been demonstrated that the Monero miner was deliberately de-optimized at launch. Maxcoin's launch was a disasterous fiasco. Even Litecoin, which Dash was originally forked from, had an instamine.

5) Evan was mining from the start, since he had 5000 Xcoins to offer as a bounty.
--Well no shit. Did you really expect him to *not* be mining? Nobody questions that Evan got some coins in the beginning. The only question is whether that amount was significant.

6) The emission schedule changed numerous times.
--Again, people aren't allowed to change their mind?

7) The coin was mined from a limited number of IP addresses.
--I don't know enough to weigh your evidence here. I'll leave that to others. Even if that is the case, so what? It was publicly launched and the binaries were publicly released. Is it Evan's fault if nobody was interested?

8) Yes, 1.5 million coins were mined in the first eight hours. Please show me some proof of your assertion that "most of these coins ended up in his hands."

[illodin]

Okay, that is a pretty convincing argument. I still think coming here and re-posting it over and over again is stupid.

I couldn't give a fuck less if Evan was the devil, using DASH to tempt people into eternal hell fire - by doing this, you make XMR look bad.

They asked for the proof... I didn't want to post it, but they called me out on it.
So well, every time they ask for it, they'll get this reply.

Your "proof" seems circumstantial speculation.

Yes, clearly:

* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.

=> DASH was clearly a planned instamine (and thus a scam)

For example this one, why are you still presenting this "recent investigations" result even though it has been refuted multiple times? That "investigation" does not show what you claim it does.

[Lebubar]

Um, masternodes will always do the mixing.  Only now they will do it in quorums.

this is new information...
This is a quote from Evan Duffield
"This system doesn't mix on masternodes at all. It's done on a protocol level.
And so, we actually don't like that we are mixing on masternodes and I wanted to remove that for a long time and I finally figuered out how to do it."

So masternodes will still be used for mixing?
This is a disappointment, I must admit 

All this are speculations, Nobody else than core dev's team know the exact architecture of Evolution.
Just be patient, maybe in the labitconf in Mexico we'll know a little more, maybe only in the Miami conference.

[ddink7]

Okay, that is a pretty convincing argument. I still think coming here and re-posting it over and over again is stupid.

I couldn't give a fuck less if Evan was the devil, using DASH to tempt people into eternal hell fire - by doing this, you make XMR look bad.

They asked for the proof

Not really seeing any proof. Just seeing a whole bunch of speculation.

But since you are being so helpful, maybe you could answer the question I posed a few pages back, to wit:

If Evan planned and significantly benefited from the instamine, why didn't he sell all his holdings in May 2014 for $11 per coin and then disappear, as so many crypto devs have done. Why does he continue to work full-time on the project?

Dumping a lot of coins probably wasn't possible on those highs. That's why he is still here.
Maybe he also likes travelling and the fact that he ca speak at conferences and get a "good guy" reputation.
Maybe he wants to do some consulting someday?

Volume exceed $11 million during that time period.* You're telling me he couldn't have unloaded enough into that kind of high-volume market?

Evan just spoke at his first conference last month. Why would you stick with a project for 18 months just so you could go talk at some conferences?

Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

*http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/dash/

[illodin]

If you are so sure about that please take advantage of the 10s of 1000s of XMR available for borrowing at rates very close to zero, and short the hell out of it.

Shorting something is good when you believe there is a bubble in the price which I don't think is the case here. Monero's price is just about where it's supposed to be.

[Lebubar]

Um, masternodes will always do the mixing.  Only now they will do it in quorums.

this is new information...
This is a quote from Evan Duffield
"This system doesn't mix on masternodes at all. It's done on a protocol level.
And so, we actually don't like that we are mixing on masternodes and I wanted to remove that for a long time and I finally figuered out how to do it."

So masternodes will still be used for mixing?
This is a disappointment, I must admit 

All this are speculations, Nobody else than core dev's team know the exact architecture of Evolution.
Just be patient, maybe in the labitconf in Mexico we'll know a little more, maybe only in the Miami conference.

You think nobody knows. :3

No.
You think that I think that nobody knows.

[Lukas_Jackson]

Fine, I grant you it's not CERTAIN that Evan got a shitton of coins. It's still LIKELY given the circumstances.

What really made me WTF in your post is the "changing mind" thing about the emission schedule. That should not be changed lightly, if at all - you should know this.

Likely? Do you think he's been mining alone for 8 hours? Of course not but I'm sure he got shitton of coins. Good.

"Changing mind". Miners agreed with that it seems.

[ddink7]

Fine, I grant you it's not CERTAIN that Evan got a shitton of coins. It's still LIKELY given the circumstances.

What really made me WTF in your post is the "changing mind" thing about the emission schedule. That should not be changed lightly, if at all - you should know this.

I would need more information from the troll on this point. I assumed he meant that Evan changed his mind on the emission schedule before the "final" launch. I don't see a problem with changing your mind on emission before you launch--Ethereum did this. I also don't see a problem with changing your emission rate to try and fix the mess that the instamine caused.

In any event, everybody is forgetting a critical fact here: Evan asked if people wanted to relaunch and they resoundingly said "NO." Evan asked if people wanted him to do an "airdrop" of coins so that everybody would be on a level playing field. They said "NO."

I really think too many people are looking at this through the lens of hindsight. Today, Dash is worth $2.25, so clearly if somebody had the chance to mine 500k at launch then they would have done so. At the time, Dash was worth nothing. A few days after launch, people were paying 1 BTC for 20k Xcoin. The bitcoin bubble was (slowly) deflating. None of the altcoins that launched that month went on to stratospheric success, so there was no reason to expect that Xcoin would either.

It just seems like a whole lot of work based on a tiny chance that Xcoin would eventually become valuable.

Did Evan really say, in his mind: "I think I'll deliberately screw up the emission rate early on, then I'll spin up a bunch of AWS instances to mine my coin, then I'll fix the emission rate and hope that the coin eventually becomes worth something so that I could sell at a profit. Then I think I'll hang around for the next 18 months, working on the coin full time, so that I can go to some conferences and shit."

[Riseman]

Whoever the holders of the instamined coins are, assuming they know what they are doing, I see 3 scenarios possible:

1. They sold their coins cheap before May 2014.
2. They sold their coins during either or both big pumps. Probably even took part in price manipulation themselves.
3. They haven't sold all their coins yet and planning another pump, even bigger than the previous ones.

Probably all of this is true for different holders. Anyway, the first 2 scenarios mean there is no danger of someone dumping a shitload of coins out of the left field and crashing the price. The 3rd one means there's going to be another pump. Either of which is good for investors.

[toknormal]

Dumping a lot of coins probably wasn't possible on those highs.

Is was possible.

Cryptsy volume alone was between 70,000 and 300,000 Dash (DRK per) day.

The reason he's still here is simple. He's a creative developer with ideas, ability and the motivation to make them happen.

The reason you're still here is equally as simple though not quite as admirable I'm afraid.

[ddink7]

No, what if he dumped a shitton early on, then came back to the project, like I said?

So $X million wasn't enough money? He decided to devote the next 18 months of his life to the project, full time, in hopes that he could make some more? If so, where's the volume on the buy side? When did he buy back in?

And if you want to fix the mess the instamine caused, you ADD MORE COINS, to dilute the supply, you don't REDUCE the supply, to make them more valuable.

If you want to fix the supply issue, that's what you do. But if you want to get as close as possible to your original emission curve, you don't.

He asked the community--here, on this thread--if they wanted to relaunch. He posted a poll, linked to on this thread, asking if they wanted massive inflation via "airdrop." What more could the man do? The community told him not to relaunch and not to inflate away the instamine. The community--not the miners. Was he supposed to just ignore them and do it anyway?

[Riseman]

Whoever the holders of the instamined coins are, assuming they know what they are doing, I see 3 scenarios possible:

1. They sold their coins cheap before May 2014.
2. They sold their coins during either or both big pumps. Probably even took part in price manipulation themselves.
3. They haven't sold all their coins yet and planning another pump, even bigger than the previous ones.

Probably all of this is true for different holders. Anyway, the first 2 scenarios mean there is no danger of someone dumping a shitload of coins out of the left field and crashing the price. The 3rd one means there's going to be another pump. Either of which is good for investors.

The fact that you think pumps are good for investors shows just how far from reality you are.

Ok, I'll leave out the "for investors" part. Am I closer to reality now?

[DrkLvr_]

Evan's plan since the beginning was to Instamine and then collect income on his masternodes. It's pretty obvious

[Riseman]

Evan's plan since the beginning was to Instamine and then collect income on his masternodes. It's pretty obvious

It's obvious that it's much more profitable to sell at pumps than to support a masternode during a price decline. Masternodes are good only for the ones who want to support the network out of their enthusiasm and good will. Payments are just a small bonus. So your statement is invalid.

[aleix]

Pages and pages of Monero bagholders arguing about a coin they consider an scam. Tireless efforts of our resident Monero trolls repeating the same every day and sock puppets with very lame names just increasing the size of this thread trying to make it unreadable. They are not going to win.

The situation here is something any rational investor can think about. They are here because they are scared.

Fuck the trolls, Evan & team are doing a great job.

[MasterMined710]

Okay, that is a pretty convincing argument. I still think coming here and re-posting it over and over again is stupid.

I couldn't give a fuck less if Evan was the devil, using DASH to tempt people into eternal hell fire - by doing this, you make XMR look bad.

it's not convincing if you take a closer look and don't just take the monero trolls at their word. i debunked these same points from another monero troll about 2 months back. here take a look...

Sorry but i have to quote smoothie one time in order to debunk him. I'll clean up as much of the trash as i can.

People have a read below as it appears there are glaring facts about this coin that need to be made public.

Step 1. Mislead as many people as possible about the launch time. Like so:

Ok now it insta crashes when I type "setgenerate true".

Time to go to bed and try again next week?

Yeah, let's do that. I obviously need to do some more testing. Thanks everyone!

Best thing to do I guess. Please, confirm you won't be launching after some minutes/hours even if you fix it, and the sooner would be tomorrow, thanks.

Definitely not. I'll also follow up with this post when I do set a time.

"Definitely not."  
I understood "Definitely not" to mean not within minutes/hours not that he would wait till the next day.

We all know he went on to launch it a couple of hours later, despite his confirmation that he'd wait until the next day at the earliest.
He fixed it a couple of hours later (3 hours) and announced it would be relaunched (11pm EST) in a few more hours giving everyone plenty of time. Since crypto is global someone will always be sleeping when a new coin is launched.


The more successful you are with Step 1, the more it will help your instamine in Step 2!


Step 2. INSTAMINE! INSTAMINE! INSTAMINE!
There is no set definition for instamine. You could call a highly inflationary coin like monero an ongoing instamine as DASH/Darkcoin and monero both hit 5 million coins at about the same time a few month's ago. Now DASH is at around 5,800,000 coins and monero is at around 9,400,000 coins.
The trend has been towards faster mined coins where they mine 4-5 million in the first 1-3 weeks. Some newer popular pos anon coins even mine all the coins in 2-3 days and people seem to like that. Several very popular coins are completely or almost completely premined, that does not mean a coin is a scam.

Tok said it best...

"As far as the "rest of the world" is concerned, the entire crypto-economy was "instamined" and resides in the hands of a tiny number of fanatical geek adopters hoping to get rich. Thats why they don't buy in and won't buy in in many cases unless it's the only option left in an atrophying fiat landscape.

It's nice if you can get everything perfect at launch. If you didn't then the market will make up its mind about how much it mattered relative to the things you did get right.

Luckily in this case, there's plenty more of the latter than the former."

Time to instamine your coin! eduffield sets another fine example here with his Linux-only release. This ensures an optimal instamine period without any pesky windows miners getting in the way of it. Eduffield set the bar very high, he managed to instamine 1.5 million coins in just the first 8 hours of launch.
There was a windows miner compiled by users before the 11pm EST relaunch.





We'll also take this opportunity to make a exaggerated claims in order to make the ANN sound better now that we're finished instamining:

- Say you invented "X11" even though you took 11 existing hash functions and chained them together.
Evan was the first to do that so yeah he did invent that.

- Take CoinJoin's work, implement it in a HYIP masternode scheme. Call it "Darksend" and say you invented it.
LOL, There are way more differences than similarities with coinjoin. Decentralized ahead of time mixing and the way the denominations work are just a few. Coinjoin can be 100% tracked, Darksend can not, ask kristov atlas the guy who cracked coinjoin and gave a positive review of darksend (old version). Masternode blinding is next just to put the cherry on top.

Step 4. When your fraudulent instamine gets noticed, start a "Vote" to airdrop an additional 2 million coins (created out of thin air by eduffield) to balance out the fraudulent instamine. Stop the vote early when a few of the other insider instamine scammers complain![/s]
I would like to have seen a relaunch because the "instamine" is the only real complaint the trolls have. The negative effects of the fastmine (cheap coins being dumped) has all but resolved itself now.



Step 6. Release yet another gimmick that takes coins from miners and puts them in your pockets. Call them "Superblocks" because you're lame as fuck and actually think it sounds cool. Make sure to call it "decentralized voting" even though 1 person owns over 50% of all masternodes and thus 50% of the vote! Ignore this fact.
Weak FUD and everyone knows it. Prove someone owns 50% of the masternodes or STFU

 

[pille]

Best thing is: trolls keep trolling all day, but evan don't give a fuck -> keeps coding all day. The only thing that would worry me if evan had the time to argue with the trolls and spam competitors threads all day.

[AzzAz]

Best thing is: trolls keep trolling all day, but evan don't give a fuck -> keeps coding all day. The only thing that would worry me if evan had the time to argue with the trolls and spam competitors threads all day.

That would be sad.