[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[DrkLvr_]

Smooth,

If you go into a public forum and make an announcement, that is not trolling. If you go into the same forum and repeat yourself thousands of times, that *is* trolling. It's not *what* you're saying...it's *how often* you're saying it. The Monero trolls clearly intend for their comments to disrupt this thread, which is a form of trolling.

The good news for you is that since Theymos hates everything that isn't Bitcoin, he and his team of moderators continue to let you spam troll all you want. The bad news for you is that these trolls are doing more to damage your own coin than they are hurting us. Even your supporters like Wolf0 are publicly calling for the trolling to get turned down a notch.

Hey crybaby, if you have a problem with a post then click report to moderator and let the mods do their job. Either that or preferably, do everyone a favor and go back to to your "much more important" DashTalk forum and don't ever come back here.

Dash does a fine job doing damage to itself without anyone's help. As it is you're down to the same half-dozen or so posters in here droning on about masternode counts, iphone wallets and delusions of superiority to bump the thread in desperation. The price of this shitcoin continues to fall, any significant buy support near the market price gets dumped into almost immediately. If you want to see what a dying scam looks like, one need look no further than DASH.

[GhostPlayer]

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This banner is already featured on their front page slide show.



You can also check what a nice endorsement they've done...

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[splawik21]

Anyone have the link to the masternode count graph?

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/masternode_count.png

Don't know if you already know this one:

http://dash-stats.com

Edit:
and this twitter bot registers the count too
https://twitter.com/dashmasternode

Is there a list made up some where of all the "stat" sites?

This? .

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Darkcoin/masternodes.html

[bigrcanada]

Anyone have the link to the masternode count graph?

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/masternode_count.png

Don't know if you already know this one:

http://dash-stats.com

Edit:
and this twitter bot registers the count too
https://twitter.com/dashmasternode

Is there a list made up some where of all the "stat" sites?

This? .

http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Darkcoin/masternodes.html

ahhhh....thanks.  I'll pm you shortly.  I have one more mn to put up MN14

[smooth]

Smooth,

If you go into a public forum and make an announcement, that is not trolling. If you go into the same forum and repeat yourself thousands of times, that *is* trolling. It's not *what* you're saying...it's *how often* you're saying it. The Monero trolls clearly intend for their comments to disrupt this thread, which is a form of trolling.

Much of what is posted by supporters is repetitive as well, because that's what happens when you discuss the same topic (Dash) day in and day out. If nothing repetitive were discussed the thread would simply go dead in between new release announcements, followed by a bit of discussion and questions about the release, and then dead again. That's implausible.

I agree with you some of the anti-Dash posts are repetitive and not tied to the flow of conversation, and i don't support that. But much of it is either part of the conversation (responses to supporters' posts which are themselves also repetitive) or not in any way repetitive, and is still accused of being trolling. A good example is smoothie's post from yesterday, which was discussing Dash in the context of a blog post from a well known cryptographer. That had never been mentioned before, for the simple reason that the blog post was brand new and didn't even exist until a few days ago.

[TanteStefana2]

Good evening trolls, Monero dev, and other sociopaths.

 Undisputed, top-shelf VPN provider has a nice message for you guys.

 

This banner is already featured on their front page slide show.



You can also check what a nice endorsement they've done...

https://bolehvpn.net/altcoin-payment.php

 Anyone out there needing a completely anonymous, private and rock solid VPN provider? Boom! Pay with Dash.

Some day, yes, this would be very nice to have!  And it's a super endorsement!  Thanks!!

[qwizzie]

smoothie's very first post in this Dash ANN thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12475323#msg12475323
(quoting no less a post of AdamWhite) and they wonder why we treat him as a troll  

Lets just say smoothie wasn't very smooth (or smart) with that post, act and behave like a troll and you get treated as a troll.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Undisputed, top-shelf VPN provider has a nice message for you guys.

https://twitter.com/taoofsatoshi/status/668876501597728768

[bigrcanada]

There is a simple solution...lets not engage in conversation with known habitual Trolls.  Don't responded to their thinly veiled  queries masked as "honest" questions.   

[TanteStefana2]

I put my faith in complex math - for every problem, there is a solution that is simple, clear, and wrong. I'm not coming here to flaunt XMR - it needs a lot of work. I came here to ask questions about DASH, and occasionally get mistaken for a troll because I support XMR.

Wolf, I don't think of you as a troll, sorry if that came across that way.  But I do beg to differ.  A solution that is clear and simple, and is a solution, is never wrong.

Anyway, like I said, I don't see why Monero can't offer services for people who do want to obscure or at least run their funds through it.  I think a major issue will be people running Monero full nodes as it's growing at 4X the speed (or more) of, say Dash's blockchain.  If I were working on monero, I would seriously think about running a 2 tiered system, just for paying a small % of the mining rewards to people running full nodes.  Use the payment system Evan developed, as the works already done.  For the equivilant of maybe $5-$10 a month per node, I'm sure people can find hosting with a lot of storage.  I don't see why they would need collateral, they wouldn't mix or anything.  So just use the parts you need.  Maybe make a test that runs once a day or hour, to prove they have the capacity required, and then they're on the payment list.

That would go a long way in helping with the bloat issue.  Then you could possibly create a lite wallet that pulls information from your MN network.  If there were no animosity toward Dash, and if  you really wanted to make it work, and work quickly, there is no reason why you couldn't use Evan's code, or ideas (as it might be easier to just copy the ideas rather than prune the code, I have no idea). It's all open source and that's what Open source is all about.  It would certainly buy you time to figure out how to trim the blockchain, if it's ever possible.

Anyway, all alts that are interested in improving the space, could be working together.  There is a different philosophy behind each coin.  Attacking each other only hurts this space and it's undoubtedly making the Banks giggle every morning over their cup of coffee. (I don't think Gov people ever giggle, and they're so confused, they can't find humor in any of this as they're working to hard to catch up with what's up). 

So please, lets work together on this.  Just because I don't like Monero's angle on cryptos personally, doesn't mean I think they shouldn't try to make it work, or that we can't share ideas with each other.  But I do hate all the trolling, it's so irritating, and that's why I have all those guys on ignore.

Remember, I'm an older lady, I'm interested in seeing something that is hard to screw up, and easy to use.  I see Dash so far ahead in that field.  But I can see the need for extreme privacy.  For Governments and Police - so they can pay informants and secret agents while keeping those people safe from discovery, and for other people fighting illegitimate governments or oppressors and frankly, I hope it empowers the people of the United States to shrink Government down via more control over how much they pay in taxes.  Government has gotten too big, IMO, and I'm hoping that a change in monetary control (from banks and governments to the people) will change the interactions between governments in the world.  Very idealistic, I know, but one must have hope.

[afreer]

Yes, thats absolutely correct, afreer!

But if all tiny proposals are smashed, we inhibit innovation culture. Even if a proposal seems to be junk, it's worth to spend a few DASH on it and to see what's the outcome. In many times, new ideas spin out, which might lead to serious improvements of the DASH ecosystem.

I strongly encourage all masternode owners to allow 50-100 DASH to be spent each month on 1-3 tiny junk proposals, to educate people on using the budget system and provide soil for innovation!

Yours,
Rango

I agree we need to promote more proposal creation but viewing the Dash network as an autonomous entity I think it probably won't be persuaded to pass 'junk' proposals because the economics dictate that the network will generally only fund proposals that are in its financial interest to do so.  I think genuine proposals that are well presented, priced attractively and present a viable case to return value to Dash users are the best strategy if you want to get network approval.  Plus, even if you present a good argument for test proposals on Bitcointalk, you won't reach non Bitcointalk users, users who don't read English, users who don't comply and so forth, but that's a good thing because if it was easy to sway decisions that don't add value the governance system wouldn't be decentralized or fit for purpose.

I think the main inhibitor in the lack of non-core DGBB uptake is because the team are busy with Evolution development and there hasn't been much education or promotion of DGBB and the incentives it provides yet although i'm sure this will come later.

Therefore my personal view would be to encourage users outside the core team to go ahead and make proposals and not be afraid if other users comment that they are junk or not and if you get knocked back by the network decision then learn from it and try again.  The protocol lets you propose whatever you want and we need to find out the strategy and proposals the network will tend to approve as Dash moves forward and grow a competitive ideas market that produces action that adds value to Dash outside of the team proposals, because the idea is this will produce better governance than any traditional monolithic leadership can.

I'm sure there are lots of users looking for paid work and there are lots of things Dash needs that they could do outside of the team's activities and there is also practically no competition between user proposals.  Perhaps we just need to promote this more on the various community channels to make more people aware that there is autonomous funding available if you want to work for the Dash blockchain and it's a good way to earn Dash and help the network grow, if anyone has some free time to do this is might be a good idea to start putting DGBB to wider use!

[iCEBREAKER]

Smooth,

If you go into a public forum and make an announcement, that is not trolling. If you go into the same forum and repeat yourself thousands of times, that *is* trolling. It's not *what* you're saying...it's *how often* you're saying it. The Monero trolls clearly intend for their comments to disrupt this thread, which is a form of trolling.

Much of what is posted by supporters is repetitive as well, because that's what happens when you discus the same topic (Dash) day in and day out. If nothing repetitive were discussed the thread would simply go dead in between new release announcements, followed by a bit of discussion and questions about the release, and then dead again. That's implausible.

I agree with you some of the anti-Dash posts are repetitive and not tied to the flow of conversation, and i don't support that. But much of it is either part of the conversation (responses to supporters' posts which are themselves also repetitive) or not in any way repetitive, and is still accused of being trolling. A good example is smoothie's post from yesterday, which was discussing Dash in the context of a blog post from a well known cryptographer. That had never been mentioned before, for the simple reason that the blog post was brand new and didn't even exist until a few days ago.

You are mistaken to assume good faith on the part of the DashHoles.

They know full well the "attack economy" critique of Dash by made by fluffy on the basis of djb's analysis is new.

But they will not respond to that, lest it weaken their Hillary Clintonesque "old news is old; at this point what difference does the instamine make?" boilerplate response.

[ddink7]

That's been addressed time and again. A GUI wallet is a LOT less of a priority than making shit work correctly and documenting the code. If they spent their time making a GUI wallet for 0.9 instead, you'd be bitching about the RAM usage. There's no winning with you guys here - you got a nice, somewhat clean and complete codebase to work off of, and even get to merge BTC commits that fix shit if you wanna. XMR devs are damned near alone with the codebase, and it's far from clean and complete, even obfuscated in parts.

That's true.  Our technology is based off a tried and true system, and it integrates seamlessly with existing interfaces already built for the Bitcoin infrastructure.  All we had to do is fix all the downfalls of Bitcoin.  Monero is starting from, well, a completely new and complex, unreadable, unverifiable project, Bytecoin.  I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but it's been almost a year, and I have no idea if any work has been done on monero since?  Personally, even if you can prove that nothing bad can happen to the coin, like more coins being created than are supposed to be, or double spend resistant.  The bloat and fact that it is so behind current technology means if it's at all possible for Monero to succeed it'll be so late, zerocoin will already be out.

Currently Monero and other cryptonote projects are only interested in one thing.  Hiding transactions completely. Dash, on the other hand, obscures ownership of coins so they can not be traced, period,  They can't be traced after a single mixing, but we can mix as many times as we like, and this enables us to be infinitely certain no malicious  masternodes were able to record what happened with the funds.  Even obscurity, with the added unintended consequence of inability to externally verify anything, including how many coins are produced, mixing is only slightly less secure.  The trade off is obviously a big deal.  Fungibility vs obscurity, like Toknormal always says, it's no contest even on Monero's one and only offering.

But Dash doesn't stop there.  Dash is instant, it will soon be super easy and more secure than ever for non-techie folk to use.  And lord knows what else the guys n gals at Dash Core have coming up.  They sure do seem excited, moreso than any time before.  And look what has already been created!  I don't know about you, but the team has me unable to sit still in my seat, I'm so excited!

Frankly,  Monero has so many flaws and has so little support, I can't understand why you all keep coming over here to flaunt it.  Even if it's not obvious to you, it's obvious to everyone here that Monero isn't going to go anywhere, and you're definitely not winning over any hearts and minds from this thread.

It's either desperation of Monero people (maybe it helps, as I can't see why in the world Monero is so high on the market cap list)  Or pure envy and jealousy and mental illness, or are you all paid trolls from governments and banking institutions?  I don't know, but you won't stop Dash.  Dash is the best thing out there, most well thought out and functional solution.  I don't see anything in the way, except for mass adoption, which will be plenty difficult for any coin to achieve.  In fact, unless you want to kill cryptos, you should be working with us instead of against us, toward mass adoption.  I'm sure, for some, Monero could be used as another layer of mixing.  Some people put a lot of faith in complex math.  I like the beauty of simplicity.  As Einsteain said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."  That's beautiful, and so is 3 input mixing.

I put my faith in complex math - for every problem, there is a solution that is simple, clear, and wrong. I'm not coming here to flaunt XMR - it needs a lot of work. I came here to ask questions about DASH, and occasionally get mistaken for a troll because I support XMR.

Are you at all concerned that this "complex math" may one day prove not to be so complex after all? What if new advances in computing or mathematics one day renders these ring signatures moot, and your entire spending history is visible on the blockchain?

[iCEBREAKER]

Yes, thats absolutely correct, afreer!

But if all tiny proposals are smashed, we inhibit innovation culture. Even if a proposal seems to be junk, it's worth to spend a few DASH on it and to see what's the outcome. In many times, new ideas spin out, which might lead to serious improvements of the DASH ecosystem.

I strongly encourage all masternode owners to allow 50-100 DASH to be spent each month on 1-3 tiny junk proposals, to educate people on using the budget system and provide soil for innovation!

Yours,
Rango

This is great idea.

Furthermore, I propose to flood the proposal system with thousands of junk proposals in order to stress test and make sure it is properly decentralized.

Do I have to have a masternode to make proposals, or is there a centralized single point of contact for that?

[noah tall]

Do I have to have a masternode to make proposals, or is there a centralized single point of contact for that?

This is probably the funniest thing I've read here in a long time.  Our friend iCE spends most of his waking hours monitoring this thread, but doesn't know this basic piece of information?  It's been discussed here in well over a hundred posts.

Fucking hilarious.

[afreer]

Does anyone have any info on what we are to expect with Evolution?

Evan left some clues already:

Requirements:
- Fungibility - All units of the current must be interchangeable (after sending coins they shouldn't have history attached)
- Speed - The currency must be able to compete with credit cards (1-5 second double-spend proof confirmations)
- Governance - The currency must be governed in a decentralized and decisive way
- Funding - The currency must have a permanent decentralized funding source for development, marketing, legal, etc
- Scalability - The currency must be able to scale to billions of transactions per day with 100% decentralization
- Ease Of Use - The currency must be usable by normal every day people

I've been working on DAPI for the last 3 months and there are 8 other devs including Evan working together on Evolution in it's entirety that I have met so far, plus around 40 other people I count in the Dash team contributing to varying degrees behind the scenes, I don't think that's obvious here on Bitcointalk  

I think Evan will start to release details publicly starting with the Miami conference, what i can say from my view is I think that Evolution will be the first time a crypto-currency will be capable to satisfy a mainstream user-base, enough so that I am winding up my day-job to do this full time in Q1 and there is another dev last week that did the same who is the lead Android dev at his company and more people will follow i'm sure.  

What I am expecting from Evolution is to break the barrier to mainstream adoption that all crypto currencies have faced up to now, and I think that's why most of the other devs are here too, although I can only speak for myself

Great!

Thank you for taking the time to share this info with us and i wish a good work to all involved in Evolution 

Thank you, it's a real buzz working in a team like this.  Plus joining the first group of people paid autonomously by a blockchain is pretty neat too.  If you understand where this project is going and have some skills to contribute, it's highly recommended, I can say first hand that the Dash team are a very welcoming, genuine and extremely talented group of people

[ddink7]

That's been addressed time and again. A GUI wallet is a LOT less of a priority than making shit work correctly and documenting the code. If they spent their time making a GUI wallet for 0.9 instead, you'd be bitching about the RAM usage. There's no winning with you guys here - you got a nice, somewhat clean and complete codebase to work off of, and even get to merge BTC commits that fix shit if you wanna. XMR devs are damned near alone with the codebase, and it's far from clean and complete, even obfuscated in parts.

That's true.  Our technology is based off a tried and true system, and it integrates seamlessly with existing interfaces already built for the Bitcoin infrastructure.  All we had to do is fix all the downfalls of Bitcoin.  Monero is starting from, well, a completely new and complex, unreadable, unverifiable project, Bytecoin.  I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but it's been almost a year, and I have no idea if any work has been done on monero since?  Personally, even if you can prove that nothing bad can happen to the coin, like more coins being created than are supposed to be, or double spend resistant.  The bloat and fact that it is so behind current technology means if it's at all possible for Monero to succeed it'll be so late, zerocoin will already be out.

Currently Monero and other cryptonote projects are only interested in one thing.  Hiding transactions completely. Dash, on the other hand, obscures ownership of coins so they can not be traced, period,  They can't be traced after a single mixing, but we can mix as many times as we like, and this enables us to be infinitely certain no malicious  masternodes were able to record what happened with the funds.  Even obscurity, with the added unintended consequence of inability to externally verify anything, including how many coins are produced, mixing is only slightly less secure.  The trade off is obviously a big deal.  Fungibility vs obscurity, like Toknormal always says, it's no contest even on Monero's one and only offering.

But Dash doesn't stop there.  Dash is instant, it will soon be super easy and more secure than ever for non-techie folk to use.  And lord knows what else the guys n gals at Dash Core have coming up.  They sure do seem excited, moreso than any time before.  And look what has already been created!  I don't know about you, but the team has me unable to sit still in my seat, I'm so excited!

Frankly,  Monero has so many flaws and has so little support, I can't understand why you all keep coming over here to flaunt it.  Even if it's not obvious to you, it's obvious to everyone here that Monero isn't going to go anywhere, and you're definitely not winning over any hearts and minds from this thread.

It's either desperation of Monero people (maybe it helps, as I can't see why in the world Monero is so high on the market cap list)  Or pure envy and jealousy and mental illness, or are you all paid trolls from governments and banking institutions?  I don't know, but you won't stop Dash.  Dash is the best thing out there, most well thought out and functional solution.  I don't see anything in the way, except for mass adoption, which will be plenty difficult for any coin to achieve.  In fact, unless you want to kill cryptos, you should be working with us instead of against us, toward mass adoption.  I'm sure, for some, Monero could be used as another layer of mixing.  Some people put a lot of faith in complex math.  I like the beauty of simplicity.  As Einsteain said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."  That's beautiful, and so is 3 input mixing.

I put my faith in complex math - for every problem, there is a solution that is simple, clear, and wrong. I'm not coming here to flaunt XMR - it needs a lot of work. I came here to ask questions about DASH, and occasionally get mistaken for a troll because I support XMR.

Are you at all concerned that this "complex math" may one day prove not to be so complex after all? What if new advances in computing or mathematics one day renders these ring signatures moot, and your entire spending history is visible on the blockchain?

The best we know of is quantum technology, and we don't even have a working quantum computer that can attack RSA in practical use. I'm pretty sure the largest number factored with Shor's Algorithm was two digits. Unless there's some INSANE leap past quantum, I don't see this happening instantly. If it does happen, new signatures can be used - while older ones would be vulnerable, I believe that would be of limited use to an attacker.

Add this to the fact attacks tend to slowly get better - you don't wake up one day and read that Rijndael (AES) has been completely cracked for practical usage. This didn't even happen to MD5. Attacks just build on others, and slowly get better, giving LOTS of time to change from weakening algorithms in anticipation of their deprecation.

Frankly I'm less concerned about quantum computers than I am about the discovery of some new technique or mathematical shortcut that trivializes everything. I guess the risk is low, but certainly non-zero.

[volyova]

Do I have to have a masternode to make proposals, or is there a centralized single point of contact for that?

This is probably the funniest thing I've read here in a long time.  Our friend iCE spends most of his waking hours monitoring this thread, but doesn't know this basic piece of information?  It's been discussed here in well over a hundred posts.

Fucking hilarious.

iCEBREAKER wot a joke (except he isn't funny)

[aleix]

Do I have to have a masternode to make proposals, or is there a centralized single point of contact for that?

This is probably the funniest thing I've read here in a long time.  Our friend iCE spends most of his waking hours monitoring this thread, but doesn't know this basic piece of information?  It's been discussed here in well over a hundred posts.

Fucking hilarious.

Icetroller is a mental disturbed person (as you can see If you read his repetitive lunatic posts). He is not reading anything here, he is here just to post his crap.

[iCEBREAKER]

Do I have to have a masternode to make proposals, or is there a centralized single point of contact for that?

This is probably the funniest thing I've read here in a long time.  Our friend iCE spends most of his waking hours monitoring this thread, but doesn't know this basic piece of information?  It's been discussed here in well over a hundred posts.

Fucking hilarious.

OMG do I really have to RTFM to find out how to flood the proposal system?  Lame.  But I see why'd you think that's hilarious.

Still not as funny as TS's epic, mangled Tante-splanation of how Dash's quorum system will provide "limitless capacity" with "infinite" security:

So now in an infinitely impossible to manipulate quorum of 8 nodes, you can be certain that they will do their work securely, or the quorum's work will be rejected.

And as far as transactions go, Evan said every transaction will now be instantX transactions, approved by one of the quorums.  Again, miners will have no say as to what is included in the blockchain.  If they include something that was not approved, it would be rejected.  Only their hash will be used to select the quorums.  I don't know which hash, it might be the next one, it might be a random one on the chain?? The latter might make sense as we would have to (at this time) have 400+ hashes to put each MN to work (or select nearest to farthest from a single hash?)

Thus, we can already compete quite well against big money transmitters such as Visa, MC, etc...  The capacity is limitless.

TIL Dash can violate the laws of information theory and thermodynamics!  Did Evan find the source code at Roswell, in a Zeta Reticulan mainframe?