[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[toknormal]

I just realised I had a pile of Exclusive Coin on Cryptsy. Logged in and withdrew it to Bittrex without any problem.

[1714607147]

1714607147

[1714607147]

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[1714607147]

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[coins101]

I just realised I had a pile of Exclusive Coin on Cryptsy. Logged in and withdrew it to Bittrex without any problem.

That points to them having cash flow issues.

[toknormal]

Masternode Quorums are also capable of handling as many transactions as can be thrown at them.  At the current size of the Masternode network, Dash can handle as many transactions per second as Visa does.  But Dash is infinitely scalable.  By reducing the collateral requirement for a Masternode by half, Dash can instantly double the Masternode network and handle twice as many transactions.

This is amazing.

How come you seem to know so much about the new stuff ?

[TanteStefana2]

LOL !!!!!
Someone is dumping hard!

Not wishing to spread any FUD, but the question about bitcoin being able to soft fork crypto note style ring sigs, stupidly called confidential transactions to avoid any darknet labels, needs to be addressed by DASH and every crypto note project.

The confidential transactions soft fork is now being actively discussed. I wouldn't be surprised if people are seeing this as a risk.  

Or it could just be someone needing to raise funds - anyone know the cryptsy wallet addresses?

Cryptonote is a system that completely obfuscates the blockchain.  You completely lose the ability to audit it.  In my opinion, that kills the whole point of crypto.  You have to trust the system can't be hacked and that it always functions correctly.  So no, Dash doesn't have to address this, we're different.  We're auditable and open to see, just not traceable, thus private.  Best of both worlds, no need to change.

[coins101]

LOL !!!!!
Someone is dumping hard!

Not wishing to spread any FUD, but the question about bitcoin being able to soft fork crypto note style ring sigs, stupidly called confidential transactions to avoid any darknet labels, needs to be addressed by DASH and every crypto note project.

The confidential transactions soft fork is now being actively discussed. I wouldn't be surprised if people are seeing this as a risk.  

Or it could just be someone needing to raise funds - anyone know the cryptsy wallet addresses?

Cryptonote is a system that completely obfuscates the blockchain.  You completely lose the ability to audit it.  In my opinion, that kills the whole point of crypto.  You have to trust the system can't be hacked and that it always functions correctly.  So no, Dash doesn't have to address this, we're different.  We're auditable and open to see, just not traceable, thus private.  Best of both worlds, no need to change.

Obviously I can but agree with you, but if bitcoin gets confidential transactions soft forked this year, then the market will decide which system is better or which it is happy to use.  The issue for Dash and xmr, etc, is the fist mover advantage of Bitcoin. A better product doesn't always win first prize.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

The key differentiation in Dash is the better alignment of incentives, inlcuding mining, nodes and governance.

Another key difference is in how Dash approaches the issue of fungibility - its technical objective is to make the coins at distinct addresses as SIMILAR and INDISTINGUISHABLE as possible.

The CT sidechain, on the other hand makes the coins as DIFFERENT and DISTINGUISHABLE as possible by recasting parts of the coin supply with different identities.

I'll leave people to ponder on the various implications of that, the why, what and how etc cos I've already posted the odd rant on this subject. Here's just one example but there are probably several more floating around.

This should be summed up and put into the OP.

I've summed it up and posted it on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/taoofsatoshi/status/686263414306410496

Well that's not the sum up.

Repeating something I have said in another thread is hardly the same as the cogent argument that Tok has put forward.

Besides, it should be in this OP.

That was actually Minotaur26's comment I tweeted. But I agree Toknormal's comment is very insightful. Where have you been, man? You used to hang out here all the time...

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Does DASH Evolution solve this problem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J52AM5SrOHw

I don't think so.

He's talking about mining centralisation which affects all POW coins.

That's what I thought, but am I correct in thinking that with the 2nd tier quorum structure DASH will rely far less on POW mining for its security because miners don't have all the power and because DASH is based on X11 we are far less likely to be in the same situation as Bitcoin regarding the centrlisation of mining hardware and the concerns relating to that?

Actually, if you look at the plans for Evolution, which should come out in it's basic form this year, miners will no longer have a say in what goes into blocks.  Masternodes will be split into quorums which will decide on inclusion to the blockchain.  Miners actually post it into the blockchain's ledger, but if they don't do what the MNs say, or if they try to include anything else, their block will be rejected and the next miner to find a block will get the rewards if he properly builds it.

Will we still need miners?  Yes, the mining has is used to randomly group masternodes into groups of quorums which process all transactions.

So, in this way, Dash DOES solve the problem.

Dash's Masternode network will process all transactions in randomly assigned groups called quorums.

Dash's Masternode network is large and very decentralized, with largest holder having around 400 MNs or 11.5% of the MN network.  The chances are infinitely small that he will ever get control of a randomly selected quorum.  This is much more secure than any mining solution out there.  And entropy, the law that states things become more dispersed over time, is actually true, and Masternodes are always changing hands, and those with the most, will undoubtedly sell them off (or their children will inherit and thus distribute, etc...).  It's virtually impossible for anyone to collect more than 20% of all Masternodes at this point, and if they did, they would have driven the price up exponentially.

Masternode Quorums are also capable of handling as many transactions as can be thrown at them.  At the current size of the Masternode network, Dash can handle as many transactions per second as Visa does.  But Dash is infinitely scalable.  By reducing the collateral requirement for a Masternode by half, Dash can instantly double the Masternode network and handle twice as many transactions.

What about the cost of bandwidth and storage of this blockchain, which would surely grow?  Dash's Masternodes are compensated.  They must put up collateral to run a Masternode on the network for security reasons, but in doing so, they earn 45% of the block reward.  The miners also earn 45% and the last 10% goes toward the budgeting system.

Now you will ask, surely, with such a huge blockchain, nobody will be able to use a full node in any practical sense.  So they'll be forced to use a centralized service with a lite wallet.  But you would be partly wrong.  Yes, most people, for practical reasons, will use lite wallets.  This would be inevitable for any coin.  However, Dash lite wallets will be tapping directly into the network, through a decentralized API system, and retrieve their information instantly, securely, and directly from the network through Masternodes, without worrying about using a centralized repository.

I'd like to point out that the subject of the axiom of block size to node distribution size was presented by Evan at the last conference.  I'm not sure if he was the first, but I think he was because I remember him collecting information to make a chart.

Now, again, he's calling number of miners withe full nodes "anonymity"  he's not talking about personal-user anonymity, but of the anonymity and what I would think is more accurate, autonomy of the miners.  Why is relying on Masternodes better than miners?  Because, as has been proven since their inception, they have been growing.  There are always more and more people buying Masternodes, thus the distribution is getting better and better.  Many argue that the biggest holders can quickly earn enough coins to create more masternodes, increasing their share of the system, but this is actually not true.  Aside from the fact that they have to run or have someone run for them, high quality servers, use bandwidth, etc... and pay for it, there are a lot more coins comeing into the system than what they're earning, and thus, we can predict that 1/2 of all coins created end up in Masternodes.  Evan or someone charted the possibilities and it showed that even our biggest Dash holder, otoh, can not increase his % of the Masternode Network, unless he keeps binging in funds from outside the network (that is, buying up all the coins created)

This presentation actually suggests we create a new Federal Reserve, LOL.  Yes, it's the "easy way out" but lets face it.  It's a complete failure if "representatives" have to be used to mine blocks.  I can't believe anyone that is in Bitcoin could think this way.

Besides that, Dash has solved the problem.  Entropy ensures we'll never be more centralized than we are today, but rather that we will become more and more decentralized over time.  Market pressures ensure nobody will be able to buy up enough Masternodes to control the system (requires so many, like 90% or more of the network, even in Evolution) that market pressures will ensure that even a country as wealthy as the United States wouldn't be able to buy up enough.

Done.

Dash Evolution is just about perfect.

Great! This is going to be Rebelmoused when I get a chance!

[toknormal]

Obviously I can but agree with you, but if bitcoin gets confidential transactions soft forked this year, then the market will decide which system is better or which it is happy to use.  The issue for Dash and xmr, etc, is the fist mover advantage of Bitcoin. A better product doesn't always win first prize.

I thought it already had it.

[TanteStefana2]

Masternode Quorums are also capable of handling as many transactions as can be thrown at them.  At the current size of the Masternode network, Dash can handle as many transactions per second as Visa does.  But Dash is infinitely scalable.  By reducing the collateral requirement for a Masternode by half, Dash can instantly double the Masternode network and handle twice as many transactions.

This is amazing.

How come you seem to know so much about the new stuff ?

Damn it Tok, why aren't you participating at DashTalk?

I've also been reading the plans from the open white paper   It's all flexible in the details still but the above is pretty much the plan.  I especially want you to follow this because you have a great feeling for what money truly is, and if we're going down a bad road, you'd see it.  There is a lot of stuff happening, and if you're not following along, it'll only get harder and harder to catch up!

You can read this page as an introduction, then below are links to all the documents that everyone is working on   Please come at least discuss them
https://www.dash.org/evolution/

There are lots of threads on DashTalk where people are asking questions and getting answers

[moocowmoo]

I used shell file using txid.
echo mn01
~/.dash/dash-cli  masternodelist rank 004c9
echo mn02
~/.dash/dash-cli  masternodelist rank 00acc

I've found masternodelist rank to be inconsistent across blocks.

run just a few blocks apart:

Code:

$ dash-cli masternodelist rank 133c6 
{
    "133c6c848081817d92c493e41de8e186a45b5211f3cd15d5c69b7073099bac9f-0" : 2521
}
$ dash-cli masternodelist rank 133c6
{
    "133c6c848081817d92c493e41de8e186a45b5211f3cd15d5c69b7073099bac9f-0" : 2091
}

I want to have monitoring "dashd" every 5 minute.
And if dashd killed, run dashd automatically.
save following code "actmn"

#!/bin/sh
#=======================================================#
 # while
#=======================================================#
while true
 do
 ps_exist_cnt=`ps -ea | grep "dashd" | grep -v grep | wc -l`
 if [ $ps_exist_cnt -eq 0 ];then
 /home/ubuntu/.dash/dashd &
 fi
 sleep 300
 done


-----------------------
backgroud run
chmod +x actmn
nohup ./actmn &


Is this proper solution?

this will work fine, but you can trim much of that code:

Code:

#!/bin/sh
while true; do
  if [ -z "$(pidof dashd)" ]; then
    /home/ubuntu/.dash/dashd &
  fi
  sleep 300 
done

[bugsywugsy]

LOL !!!!!
Someone is dumping hard!

That dumping coincides with the Cryptsy founder Paul Vernon being spotted in China after he left his company HQ unannounced.
Needs to pay hotel bills, I guess...

Another exit-scam after Mt.Gox, Hashfast, Mintpal and others.

Could be a VPN though, even the author himself admits that possibility. Either way, DASH going down. Looks like 625 might be a good price to buy again

[TanteStefana2]

LOL !!!!!
Someone is dumping hard!

Not wishing to spread any FUD, but the question about bitcoin being able to soft fork crypto note style ring sigs, stupidly called confidential transactions to avoid any darknet labels, needs to be addressed by DASH and every crypto note project.

The confidential transactions soft fork is now being actively discussed. I wouldn't be surprised if people are seeing this as a risk.  

Or it could just be someone needing to raise funds - anyone know the cryptsy wallet addresses?

Cryptonote is a system that completely obfuscates the blockchain.  You completely lose the ability to audit it.  In my opinion, that kills the whole point of crypto.  You have to trust the system can't be hacked and that it always functions correctly.  So no, Dash doesn't have to address this, we're different.  We're auditable and open to see, just not traceable, thus private.  Best of both worlds, no need to change.

Obviously I can but agree with you, but if bitcoin gets confidential transactions soft forked this year, then the market will decide which system is better or which it is happy to use.  The issue for Dash and xmr, etc, is the fist mover advantage of Bitcoin. A better product doesn't always win first prize.

I'd actually be happy if Bitcoin fixed itself, but my confidence that they can/could fix themselves is at an all time low.  Like that link dazbarlby just posted (quoted below), they have people suggesting a trusted member, perhaps  elected, would check all transactions and control what goes in the blockchain.  Another Federal Reserve anyone?  I mean, no, unless they fork to work like Dash, in it's entirety, will it work as well.  And even then, they simply couldn't set up a masternode network, because to secure it properly, you need a substantial collateral.  Only a few people have that kind bitcoinage. How many people will be able to put together 420,000 coins to make a Masternode? Even if 10 people could, there would only be 10-50 masternodes.  This is where starting such a node system while the coins are cheap is extremely important.

We have a vast MN network, yet it is constantly being redistributed to new owners or new MNs come online distributing the network more and more.  Better still, we're at the point where nobody could possibly buy enough MNs to control the system, as has been calculated previously.  Bitcoin will be used in more narrowly focused situations. Soon, nobody will be able to buy normal things for Bitcoin as it will be too clunky, too expensive and other coins will do the job of money better.  Eventually, it'll mostly be Dash. (sorry, that's my opinion )

Does DASH Evolution solve this problem?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J52AM5SrOHw

Edit: added image

[splawik21]

LOL !!!!!
Someone is dumping hard!

That dumping coincides with the Cryptsy founder Paul Vernon being spotted in China after he left his company HQ unannounced.
Needs to pay hotel bills, I guess...

Another exit-scam after Mt.Gox, Hashfast, Mintpal and others.

Could be a VPN though, even the author himself admits that possibility. Either way, DASH going down. Looks like 625 might be a good price to buy again

rly?   @poloniex good I bought 0,00665 - 0,00697 .... keep waiting 

[afreer]

LOL !!!!!
Someone is dumping hard!

Not wishing to spread any FUD, but the question about bitcoin being able to soft fork crypto note style ring sigs, stupidly called confidential transactions to avoid any darknet labels, needs to be addressed by DASH and every crypto note project.

The confidential transactions soft fork is now being actively discussed. I wouldn't be surprised if people are seeing this as a risk.  

Or it could just be someone needing to raise funds - anyone know the cryptsy wallet addresses?

Cryptonote is a system that completely obfuscates the blockchain.  You completely lose the ability to audit it.  In my opinion, that kills the whole point of crypto.  You have to trust the system can't be hacked and that it always functions correctly.  So no, Dash doesn't have to address this, we're different.  We're auditable and open to see, just not traceable, thus private.  Best of both worlds, no need to change.

Obviously I can but agree with you, but if bitcoin gets confidential transactions soft forked this year, then the market will decide which system is better or which it is happy to use.  The issue for Dash and xmr, etc, is the fist mover advantage of Bitcoin. A better product doesn't always win first prize.

Like Daniel was saying, Dash is more than just private transactions because privacy is a single feature of the second tier.  

Privacy is essential to the large scale use of the currency (fungibility), but so are the other T2 features like decentralized governance, decentralized infrastructure (incentivized masternodes), with instant transactions a bonus I guess.

T3 gives users decentralized web/mobile access and decentralized accounts / social integration (i.e. using crypto on web/mobile without a middle man / additional software, plus login from anywhere and pay by username like PayPal/Google wallet) which I think are both essential for mainstream use too.

All that is made possible with this fundamental addition to Satoshi's economic model whereby nodes are incentived and cost-restricted like mining is, so can  be used for decentralized solutions and services.

Just adding privacy to Bitcoin or another coin with the same 1-tier architecture still means you need a desktop to use it, unless you want to go through a 3rd party website and lose all your privacy / be centralized.  Dash's solution is slicker, you don't need 3rd party companies to use it on the web / be private / pay someone by name, it's doing it out the box and with a common standard, so I don't think Bitcoin fixing just one of it's problems will mean Dash doesn't get a chance to compete in the market then.

[toknormal]

Damn it Tok, why aren't you participating at DashTalk?

I've also been reading the plans from the open white paper  It's all flexible in the details still but the above is pretty much the plan.  I especially want you to follow this because you have a great feeling for what money truly is, and if we're going down a bad road, you'd see it.  There is a lot of stuff happening, and if you're not following along, it'll only get harder and harder to catch up!

Sorry, I'll try to make more effort to follow developments.

I have actually printed the Evolution docs and read quite a lot and I've already posted what I thought was my principle concern over at Dashtalk and this has been constructively responded to by Fernando. I just realise I hadn't come across all that stuff you just posted. For example I didn't realise that the quorums were going to be so integrated with the mining logic and so on.

I can see I'll have to do more reading.

[Otoh]

LOL !!!!!
Someone is dumping hard!

That dumping coincides with the Cryptsy founder Paul Vernon being spotted in China after he left his company HQ unannounced.
Needs to pay hotel bills, I guess...

Another exit-scam after Mt.Gox, Hashfast, Mintpal and others.

Could be a VPN though, even the author himself admits that possibility. Either way, DASH going down. Looks like 625 might be a good price to buy again

rly?   @poloniex good I bought 0,00665 - 0,00697 .... keep waiting  

I'm on the road atm and don't have the time to make the laughing bankers meme for 'Looks like 625 might be a good price to buy again' 'Good luck with that dood', but take it as a given please ;-)

Edit, I found time

[oaxaca]

Obviously I can but agree with you, but if bitcoin gets confidential transactions soft forked this year, then the market will decide which system is better or which it is happy to use.  The issue for Dash and xmr, etc, is the fist mover advantage of Bitcoin. A better product doesn't always win first prize.

First mover advantage doesn't always win.  Sometimes it's the "fast follower" aka second mover.  The initial first-mover advantage will last for a period of time, only to be replaced by the "Fast Follower".  Ford Motor Company was the first mass produced manufacturer of cars.  Within a short time, General Motors was outselling them by offering something Ford would not.  By following a strategy of innovation, combined with focusing on getting the word out, DASH has an excellent chance of succeeding in the Digital Cash realm.

--------------------------------

"First-movers are not always able to benefit from being first. Whereas firms who are the first to enter the market with a new product can gain substantial market share due to lack of competition, sometimes their efforts fail. Second-mover advantage occurs when a firm following the lead of the first-mover is actually able to capture greater market share, despite having entered late.

First-mover firms often face high research and development costs, and the marketing costs necessary to educate the public about a new type of product. A second-mover firm can learn from the experiences of the first mover firm, and may not face such high research and development costs, if it is able create its own version of a product using existing technology. A second-mover firm also does not face the marketing task of having to educate the public about the new project because the first-mover has already done so. As a result, the second-mover can use its resources to focus on making a superior product or out-marketing the first-mover."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage#Second-mover_advantage

[Otoh]

Obviously I can but agree with you, but if bitcoin gets confidential transactions soft forked this year, then the market will decide which system is better or which it is happy to use.  The issue for Dash and xmr, etc, is the fist mover advantage of Bitcoin. A better product doesn't always win first prize.

First mover advantage doesn't always win.  Sometimes it's the "fast follower" aka second mover.  The initial first-mover advantage will last for a period of time, only to be replaced by the "Fast Follower".  Ford Motor Company was the first mass produced manufacturer of cars.  Within a short time, General Motors was outselling them by offering something Ford would not.  By following a strategy of innovation, combined with focusing on getting the word out, DASH has an excellent chance of succeeding in the Digital Cash realm.

--------------------------------

"First-movers are not always able to benefit from being first. Whereas firms who are the first to enter the market with a new product can gain substantial market share due to lack of competition, sometimes their efforts fail. Second-mover advantage occurs when a firm following the lead of the first-mover is actually able to capture greater market share, despite having entered late.

First-mover firms often face high research and development costs, and the marketing costs necessary to educate the public about a new type of product. A second-mover firm can learn from the experiences of the first mover firm, and may not face such high research and development costs, if it is able create its own version of a product using existing technology. A second-mover firm also does not face the marketing task of having to educate the public about the new project because the first-mover has already done so. As a result, the second-mover can use its resources to focus on making a superior product or out-marketing the first-mover."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage#Second-mover_advantage

[afreer]

Obviously I can but agree with you, but if bitcoin gets confidential transactions soft forked this year, then the market will decide which system is better or which it is happy to use.  The issue for Dash and xmr, etc, is the fist mover advantage of Bitcoin. A better product doesn't always win first prize.

First mover advantage doesn't always win.  Sometimes it's the "fast follower" aka second mover.  The initial first-mover advantage will last for a period of time, only to be replaced by the "Fast Follower".  Ford Motor Company was the first mass produced manufacturer of cars.  Within a short time, General Motors was outselling them by offering something Ford would not.  By following a strategy of innovation, combined with focusing on getting the word out, DASH has an excellent chance of succeeding in the Digital Cash realm.

--------------------------------

"First-movers are not always able to benefit from being first. Whereas firms who are the first to enter the market with a new product can gain substantial market share due to lack of competition, sometimes their efforts fail. Second-mover advantage occurs when a firm following the lead of the first-mover is actually able to capture greater market share, despite having entered late.

First-mover firms often face high research and development costs, and the marketing costs necessary to educate the public about a new type of product. A second-mover firm can learn from the experiences of the first mover firm, and may not face such high research and development costs, if it is able create its own version of a product using existing technology. A second-mover firm also does not face the marketing task of having to educate the public about the new project because the first-mover has already done so. As a result, the second-mover can use its resources to focus on making a superior product or out-marketing the first-mover."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage#Second-mover_advantage

The key market Dash Evolution targets is online payments.  I would argue that PayPal is the first mover there.  Bitcoin hasn't even really made a dent in that yet, and I don't think mainstream users really care about decentralization enough so that letting users buy from the web by pasting massive random strings from a desktop app means Bitcoin is the first mover there because everyone is on mobile devices.  Bitcoin therefore is really just first in the 'desktop P2P payments' market which is a small market of IT enthusiasts  

When we get the Dash eCommerce user experience as seamless for web / native eCommerce users as PayPal has done both for end-users and merchants, with the added benefit that the user's keep full control of their funds and transact directly with merchants (not something PayPal or Bitcoin on the web allows you to do), Dash can compete for eCommerce share a lot better than Bitcoin I think.

[italeffect]

Otoh - your wall is gone on Polo?