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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 7992468 times)
Solarminer
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January 31, 2017, 06:27:42 PM

http://www.coindesk.com/fbi-concerned-about-criminal-use-of-private-cryptocurrency-monero/

Quote
The privacy-focused digital currency monero has captured the attention of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), which has expressed concerns over its use among criminals.

and so it begins...

Quote
Following the event, the special agent said he couldn't provide additional details specifically pertaining to the FBI’s investigative techniques surrounding monero when asked by CoinDesk.

oh boy   Shocked


Is this supposed to be bad for Monero or something?  I seriously doubt the feds are going to be able to coerce view keys from transactions to put any links together.

Why did they pick Monero?   Here is the quote - notice they mention "catches on".  Which privacy coin has highest market cap?
"We’re going to look at what catches on, and what becomes mainstream, and then we’re going to keep an eye on that, because usually not long after that is when you start to see some of the fraud and some of the more nefarious uses of that technology."


On the other hand Dash is partnering with Coinfirm.   Coinfirm should be able to track IP to masternode address to how many rewards each masternode gets to where it is spent.   At that point, any law that comes into play can force a warrant to get the user of an IP address and file criminal charges....tax evasion, mixing(laundering), money transmitter, not declaring crypto holdings over xxxx amount.   The law may not exist now, but the blockchain is forever so expect retroactive enforcement.  Ironically, it would be a piece of cake for the Fed to go after Dash "criminals".  What about mixing?   Feds can just declare mixed coins laundered too.

There is a solution.  It is called IP blinding.  Has that been implemented as a standard feature?  Nope.   Or mixing could be default so coinfirm can't track all of this information, but that idea was put to bed too.

I really could care less about Monero.  But it sure would be nice if Dash would pay attention to what is happening and improve privacy instead of assuming every other coin is inferior.

Join a lively chat style discussion on the CoinChat.Club Slack https://CoinChat.Club/
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January 31, 2017, 06:38:28 PM

puuh, this dash vs. monero fight is so annoying.

the only outcome of this fight will be that a lot of people will stop following the threads and will forget both coins.

 Huh


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toknormal
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January 31, 2017, 07:11:27 PM


I seriously doubt the feds are going to be able to coerce view keys from transactions to put any links together.

They don't have to. The job's done for them by providing them with a nice neat "black hole" to stand guard over.

For crypto to work as money, it has to have a "face" in as many sectors of commercial and economic life as possible because one economic sector "levers" the value from another in a way that goods and services can't, being sector-specific. Thats what makes the $USD the criminal currency of choice - because it can be earned illicitly in one sector and pop-up somewhere completely differently to be spent on kids christmas presents.

The second thing is, as far as surveillance goes, no cryptocurrency networks (obfuscated or otherwise) tell you a thing about identities unless you're already in possession of significant off-chain information. That can only be gleaned from the entry and exit points to the coin supply - i.e. commercial trading, exchanges, wage earning etc. So if you create an unbacked monetary network that is entirely obfuscated then you're basically kissing goodbye your long term value proposition from widespread adoption on 3 counts:

1. all your boundary points will get regulated out of existence by virtue of tainting the entire network as a suspicious trading indicator

2. you'll end up getting used exclusively as a sector-specific payments system instead of a store of value which leaves you wide open to any competing technology that happens to provide the same service as yours does but cheaper, more conveniently or more reliably

and that's without even considering the biggest ticking-timebomb calamity of all...

3. Confidence. As I explained in this post, the whole point of the Satoshi transparent model was to 'fix' the one thing that has always prevented a trust-free decentralised token from taking hold and garnering real monetary value - public confidence and how to "not" puncture it. It's unlikely that bitcoin would have made it through all its various rollercoaster rides of the last 8 years IMO without complete and un compromised transparency. Gox, malleability crises, heists - you name it. Whether the Feds are crawling all over it isn’t the point. The point is it has the public crawling all over it every minute of every day which is why it remains robust in the face of rumours, scams and technology crises.

The reason why Dash’s privacy model is miles ahead of anything else is because it looked beyond the horizons of "technological obfuscation" and dealt with each of those 3 points independently.

All the cryptonote model does is deny those challenges even exist and bury the whole blockchain from sight. An exercise in nerd-wizardry but monetary gimmickry and not exactly an inspiring prospect. But then again as I’ve stated, that approach was never invented for defining trustless money anyway.

It was invented for carrying bank-backed credit money which is why obfuscation (encryption) was made the priority over authenticity.
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January 31, 2017, 11:32:33 PM



Can you answer why  XMR supporters are radically aggressive appearing in each and every single thread, flooding the discussions, and FUDing all the coins that appear on their way?
Not just DASH but all other coins as well?
[/quote]

[XMR] Monero - Marketing Team & Tactics
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1233817.0

DASH = Digital Cash         FAQ          DASHTALK
MasterMined710
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January 31, 2017, 11:42:39 PM

http://www.coindesk.com/fbi-concerned-about-criminal-use-of-private-cryptocurrency-monero/

Quote
The privacy-focused digital currency monero has captured the attention of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), which has expressed concerns over its use among criminals.

and so it begins...

Quote
Following the event, the special agent said he couldn't provide additional details specifically pertaining to the FBI’s investigative techniques surrounding monero when asked by CoinDesk.

oh boy   Shocked



Coinfirm should be able to track IP to masternode address to how many rewards each masternode gets to where it is spent.   At that point, any law that comes into play can force a warrant to get the user of an IP address and file criminal charges....tax evasion, mixing(laundering), money transmitter, not declaring crypto holdings over xxxx amount.   The law may not exist now, but the blockchain is forever so expect retroactive enforcement.  Ironically, it would be a piece of cake for the Fed to go after Dash "criminals".  What about mixing?   Feds can just declare mixed coins laundered too.

There is a solution.  It is called IP blinding.

"tax evasion, mixing(laundering), money transmitter, not declaring crypto holdings over xxxx amount."

these problems are not unique to DASH, all crypto are susceptible, at least for the 3 year irs statute of limitation (so no, not forever). masternodes don't come into possession of coins so mark mixing and money transmitter off the list too.


tok answered the other questions eloquently, as always.

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January 31, 2017, 11:43:35 PM

Cry I had to post this here due to hard trolling lately  Cry
[off-topic removed]

Criticism of Dash's Instamine, centralized development, and many expensive, unaccountable failed projects is not "trolling."

And it's on-topic, unlike your post.

Let's change the subject back to Dash, shall we?

Here's coblee (Coinbase's Dir. of Engineering) clarifying why Dash's shitty governance isn't his cup of tea.



--->

OK, which one of you cult enforcers marked ^this^ as "Trolling?"   Cheesy

This is essentially a shill post for monero. stop shilling on the dash forum.
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January 31, 2017, 11:44:41 PM

puuh, this dash vs. monero fight is so annoying.

the only outcome of this fight will be that a lot of people will stop following the threads and will forget both coins.

 Huh

Dash people tend to stick to the topic of dash. We just have a legion of monero trolls on here that either like to shill for monero or try and put dash down in any way they deem fit (usually through lies)

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February 01, 2017, 01:48:12 AM

Copay-Dash Wallet (Testnet Only / RC 0.1)

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/copay-dash-wallet-testnet-only-rc-0-1.12930/


Support the Arts .....>
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February 01, 2017, 02:09:27 AM

Coinfirm should be able to track IP to masternode address to how many rewards each masternode gets to where it is spent.   At that point, any law that comes into play can force a warrant to get the user of an IP address and file criminal charges....tax evasion, mixing(laundering), money transmitter, not declaring crypto holdings over xxxx amount.   The law may not exist now, but the blockchain is forever so expect retroactive enforcement.  Ironically, it would be a piece of cake for the Fed to go after Dash "criminals".  What about mixing?   Feds can just declare mixed coins laundered too.

There is a solution.  It is called IP blinding.

"tax evasion, mixing(laundering), money transmitter, not declaring crypto holdings over xxxx amount."

these problems are not unique to DASH, all crypto are susceptible, at least for the 3 year irs statute of limitation (so no, not forever). masternodes don't come into possession of coins so mark mixing and money transmitter off the list too.

No, actually Dash is uniquely susceptible.  Masternode IPs are required to be static and public.  They also require collateral stored in an address.   No other currency (besides Dash clones) links a public address with funds and rewards to the IP address.

The 3 year limitation is only if you want to get a refund back.  If the IRS finds that you owe money, there is a 10 year limitation.

Join a lively chat style discussion on the CoinChat.Club Slack https://CoinChat.Club/
MasterMined710
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February 01, 2017, 03:12:28 AM

Coinfirm should be able to track IP to masternode address to how many rewards each masternode gets to where it is spent.   At that point, any law that comes into play can force a warrant to get the user of an IP address and file criminal charges....tax evasion, mixing(laundering), money transmitter, not declaring crypto holdings over xxxx amount.   The law may not exist now, but the blockchain is forever so expect retroactive enforcement.  Ironically, it would be a piece of cake for the Fed to go after Dash "criminals".  What about mixing?   Feds can just declare mixed coins laundered too.

There is a solution.  It is called IP blinding.

"tax evasion, mixing(laundering), money transmitter, not declaring crypto holdings over xxxx amount."

these problems are not unique to DASH, all crypto are susceptible, at least for the 3 year irs statute of limitation (so no, not forever). masternodes don't come into possession of coins so mark mixing and money transmitter off the list too.

No, actually Dash is uniquely susceptible.  Masternode IPs are required to be static and public.  They also require collateral stored in an address.   No other currency (besides Dash clones) links a public address with funds and rewards to the IP address.

The 3 year limitation is only if you want to get a refund back.  If the IRS finds that you owe money, there is a 10 year limitation.


my ip is not linked/associated with my masternodes (ran by a 3rd party in different country). i am not trying to avoid the irs anyway. there was a paper published recently about how to hide masternodes but it was over my head. vertoe even surfaced to check it out, i'm sure you saw it.

Edit: here it is...
Security-Privacy-Centric Solution For Anonymous DASH (Masternode) Local Wallet Based On Debian GNU/Linux, VirtualBox, Whonix GNU/Linux Including Tor And Tails
– VERSION 0.1.8 [2016-12-17] –
https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/DOC/Dash+Security-Privacy+Paper



 i want to be invested in a coin like dash/btc that is in compliance and plans to go mainstream not be regulated to the darknet. and like tok said, you have to move to fiat at some point, those choke points will catch up with you eventually if you are worried about hiding from the irs.

here is some good info if you are planning on avoiding taxes and trying to get away with it, i don't advise doing that...

How Far Back Can IRS Claim Tax Evasion Or Fraud? Timing Is Everything
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/10/13/how-far-back-can-irs-claim-tax-evasion-or-fraud-timing-is-everything/#1c1f03be53ff

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Terzo2
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February 01, 2017, 07:37:36 AM

The icebreaker is super active these days. This is always a good sign.
He is so irritated by the DASH success .  Grin
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February 01, 2017, 07:56:59 AM

This is just hilarious.

The Monero trolling squad accuses Dash of illegal money services forgetting that Monero is second after Bitcoin in black markets.
The Dash promoters accuse Monero of market manipulation forgetting that Dash price does a full retrace after each pump (like the one likely to be unfolding now).

You guys deserve each other.
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February 01, 2017, 08:17:07 AM


...forgetting that Dash price does a full retrace after each pump.

1st pump = retraced to a 2500% gain level at its lowest point
2nd pump = full retrace that lasted all of 10 days
3rd pump = retraced to 100% gain level at its lowest point
MasterMined710
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February 01, 2017, 08:41:28 AM

This is just hilarious.

The Monero trolling squad accuses Dash of illegal money services forgetting that Monero is second after Bitcoin in black markets.
The Dash promoters accuse Monero of market manipulation forgetting that Dash price does a full retrace after each pump (like the one likely to be unfolding now).

You guys deserve each other.

nobody really uses anything on the darkmarket but btc. i'm guessing it is 95% btc. people my use other alts before or after the fact to clean their btc and exit to fiat.

not sure about price manipulation but from the charts (tok's) i have seen on other alts it looks like a big bubble compared to dash's slow steady growth.
all cryptos pump and dump but dash is always retracing higher, at least compared to btc which we have outperformed every year since launch. 2017 will be no different.


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February 01, 2017, 09:12:17 AM

Coinfirm should be able to track IP to masternode address to how many rewards each masternode gets to where it is spent.   At that point, any law that comes into play can force a warrant to get the user of an IP address and file criminal charges....tax evasion, mixing(laundering), money transmitter, not declaring crypto holdings over xxxx amount.   The law may not exist now, but the blockchain is forever so expect retroactive enforcement.  Ironically, it would be a piece of cake for the Fed to go after Dash "criminals".  What about mixing?   Feds can just declare mixed coins laundered too.

There is a solution.  It is called IP blinding.

"tax evasion, mixing(laundering), money transmitter, not declaring crypto holdings over xxxx amount."

these problems are not unique to DASH, all crypto are susceptible, at least for the 3 year irs statute of limitation (so no, not forever). masternodes don't come into possession of coins so mark mixing and money transmitter off the list too.

No, actually Dash is uniquely susceptible.  Masternode IPs are required to be static and public.  They also require collateral stored in an address.   No other currency (besides Dash clones) links a public address with funds and rewards to the IP address.

The 3 year limitation is only if you want to get a refund back.  If the IRS finds that you owe money, there is a 10 year limitation.


my ip is not linked/associated with my masternodes (ran by a 3rd party in different country). i am not trying to avoid the irs anyway. there was a paper published recently about how to hide masternodes but it was over my head. vertoe even surfaced to check it out, i'm sure you saw it.

Edit: here it is...
Security-Privacy-Centric Solution For Anonymous DASH (Masternode) Local Wallet Based On Debian GNU/Linux, VirtualBox, Whonix GNU/Linux Including Tor And Tails
– VERSION 0.1.8 [2016-12-17] –
https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/DOC/Dash+Security-Privacy+Paper



 i want to be invested in a coin like dash/btc that is in compliance and plans to go mainstream not be regulated to the darknet. and like tok said, you have to move to fiat at some point, those choke points will catch up with you eventually if you are worried about hiding from the irs.

here is some good info if you are planning on avoiding taxes and trying to get away with it, i don't advise doing that...

How Far Back Can IRS Claim Tax Evasion Or Fraud? Timing Is Everything
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/10/13/how-far-back-can-irs-claim-tax-evasion-or-fraud-timing-is-everything/#1c1f03be53ff

+1

Anybody who thinks Dash is going to grow to mainstream adoption without working cooperatively with authorities on compliance and regulation is living in a dreamworld.

Taxation is a fact of life in a civilized world, yet it sounds like some on here believe that Dash should be capable of providing effective means to evade tax liabilities, or worse, develop such a feature as a selling point for Dash?

Dash will be dead in the water if we try to make an enemy of the state.

Walter
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February 01, 2017, 09:43:28 AM

i'm not thrilled about having to pay taxes but if you don't pay your protection money they will eventually send their masked men to your house with automatic guns to kick in your door and kidnap (arrest) you and lock you in a cage (jail) and hold you for ransom (bail). that does not sound very "civilized" to me, but maybe one day with the help of tech like dash we can live in a more peaceful, more civilized society without our money being taken by force or threats of force.

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February 01, 2017, 09:55:16 AM

I´ve had enough with this shitshow. I just hate newbies being trapped by this constant deception game by the instaminers and some paid shills.

The story of this coin from the very first days (big instamine continued by big reduction of coin supply) should just raise the first red flag.

Then created the Masternodes trap as to have an economic incentive to buy and hoard resulting in less coins in the market and apreciation in prize. It would be good if it actually improved privacy and not just create a massive attack vector to the governance and privacy workings of the now renamed Dash, especially when more than 90% of MNs are in VPS from third parties and probably there´s no more than 50 MN owners.

I was going to expand myself a little more but must leave...

Just stop it, i think you are hurting the crypto-space. There are many honest projects out there, just hope everyone does his/her research before supporting/investing in them.

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February 01, 2017, 10:10:37 AM


Hello cryptohunter or whoever you are today.

Looks like the only "trapped newbies" (other than your good self) are the ones who listened to this kind of bs year in year out.

instaminers...paid shills....massive attack vector

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February 01, 2017, 10:13:56 AM


...forgetting that Dash price does a full retrace after each pump.

1st pump = retraced to a 2500% gain level at its lowest point
2nd pump = full retrace that lasted all of 10 days
3rd pump = retraced to 100% gain level at its lowest point

Things are bit more complicated than Riseman points: There are p&d but with time - less and less.
 And there is one steady longtime rising line that makes every retrace higher and higher. I know that 'cause 'm trying to buy at dips - unsuccessfully  for long time.
 I think that is because Evan and the team saw this long time ago, and it is now pretty obvious.
So for criminals way goes:    ... - btc - xmr ( or some similar coin ) - btc - usd
At first it was only btc. Then untraceable middle coin was needed.
That middle coin has to have volume for big operations. Drk ( darkcoin) was at one moment there.
Now dash is not fast in obfuscation - I think because that way it separates criminal from privacy. Criminals need to hide fast, they don't have time for mixing.
Then it comes to xmr team behavior, isn't it obvious? And -they start from - here.

edit: Ha, Tok faster than me.
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February 01, 2017, 10:30:00 AM

I´ve had enough with this shitshow. I just hate newbies being trapped by this constant deception game by the instaminers and some paid shills.

The story of this coin from the very first days (big instamine continued by big reduction of coin supply) should just raise the first red flag.

Then created the Masternodes trap as to have an economic incentive to buy and hoard resulting in less coins in the market and apreciation in prize. It would be good if it actually improved privacy and not just create a massive attack vector to the governance and privacy workings of the now renamed Dash, especially when more than 90% of MNs are in VPS from third parties and probably there´s no more than 50 MN owners.

I was going to expand myself a little more but must leave...

Just stop it, i think you are hurting the crypto-space. There are many honest projects out there, just hope everyone does his/her research before supporting/investing in them.



Man. There is one coin without all "bad" things you named here. Onecoin.
And there are few more than 50 MN owners. Did you research? No.
And you can always compare "big instamine" with BTC ( 1 million coin ) and LTC's ( "mr. Lee sold his 400 000 LTC early "). And more than 90% of all coins.

ps. edited
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