[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[salsacz]

I wrote a NEM F.A.Q post on the subreddit if anyone is interested; is there anything I should add/change?

What do you think about a wallet like NXT, where you don't have to have a local file on your computer, but rather a user name and password.

you mean something like http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/ ?

[okaynow]

I wrote a NEM F.A.Q post on the subreddit if anyone is interested; is there anything I should add/change?

stickied

[patmast3r]

Call me picky, but I'm not sure I like the forum redesign... What does everyone else think?

dont like it.. think they should stick to the bitcointalk style... as close to it as possible... nxt had 3 r 4 forums and none were used much..then they made on nearly identical to this one and everyone flocked over.. if you want mass migration make it as close to this one as possible

Yeah that is a little too bright. I suggested to make it look more like ournem.com but that has clearly failed
No worry though...it'll be adapted until it looks nice

[ShimalH]

Looks great. I support NEM. But watch out for competition Exo, Numus, Edge etc. all new kids. The way I see it, tech aside, each community would need a core group of supporters. Take care of them and pay no attention to detractors. I will be back. XXX 

This watch out for Numus. That coin looks to be a game-changer.

I don't get how it's a game changer, compared to lets say Nem, or NXT.

It's not new code, it's based on Peercoin, and the gimmick is that it's going to be marketed, and they have a neat looking presentation.

To me that looks more promising than your daily alt coin, but at the same time, it's more of the same, just with a nicer, more professional looking presentation.

Like I looked at the video and it starts by saying, "We have an idea," and the proceed to talk about how they came up with a coin that can be used in a decentralized way. And it frustrates me when a new coin says that, because they're describing all other coins, yet saying it like they just came out with that new a revolutionary idea.

Well I agree with you there about the video, but I guess that was only intended for marketing purposes. What I really like about this coin is their professional and practical approach to gain widespread adoption of their coin. The key for them and most coins nowadays is marketing. Face it, no real coin besides primarily Dogecoin and Bitcoin has really gained public adoption of some sort. The first coin which secures a foothold outside of the crypto community will be most likely to succeed in the long-term. This is what I think NEM and Numus should work towards.

Yup. That's what often slips many minds here. Everyone is inside the crypto matrix.

A coin that steps outside that and presents itself as user friendly and informative will kick the pants off any amount of technical cleverness.

Exactly

[patmast3r]

I wrote a NEM F.A.Q post on the subreddit if anyone is interested; is there anything I should add/change?

What do you think about a wallet like NXT, where you don't have to have a local file on your computer, but rather a user name and password.

From my experience it just makes life MUCH easier.

For example, I have three computers, and I can access my NXT account with ease just by simply logging on from which ever computer I'm using. If I have a sudden hard drive crash, it won't affect my NXT coins. I would love to be able to access my 1st gen coins from any of my computers, but the need of a local wallet just ruins that ability.

I need to reinstall my OS on my main computer. It's something that I would have done a while ago, but I haven't due to fear of losing my coins.

I've tried backing up the wallet, and trying to open it up on another computer. I've only tried two different times, but can't seem to get it to work. But again, it just seems like the NXT way is a lot more hassle free.

(The main thing that's slowing me down from wanting to even transfer my coins to another computer is the blockchains and the amount of memory that they eat up.)

The main reason NEM will support a local wallet is because quite a few people had their brainwallets robbed. A local wallet is local and as long as noone but you has access to the file and password if it's encrypted you can't get robbed.
We are however also aware of the advantages of a brainwallet and the devs are discussing ways to transfer a wallet in a simple to use fashion.

[mr smith]

Call me picky, but I'm not sure I like the forum redesign... What does everyone else think?

dont like it.. think they should stick to the bitcointalk style... as close to it as possible... nxt had 3 r 4 forums and none were used much..then they made on nearly identical to this one and everyone flocked over.. if you want mass migration make it as close to this one as possible

Works for me >
I don't think mass migration is needed at this point. We all bat on the same side right OURNEM

[rix5]

 we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

[j23a]

I wrote a NEM F.A.Q post on the subreddit if anyone is interested; is there anything I should add/change?

What do you think about a wallet like NXT, where you don't have to have a local file on your computer, but rather a user name and password.

From my experience it just makes life MUCH easier.

For example, I have three computers, and I can access my NXT account with ease just by simply logging on from which ever computer I'm using. If I have a sudden hard drive crash, it won't affect my NXT coins. I would love to be able to access my 1st gen coins from any of my computers, but the need of a local wallet just ruins that ability.

I need to reinstall my OS on my main computer. It's something that I would have done a while ago, but I haven't due to fear of losing my coins.

I've tried backing up the wallet, and trying to open it up on another computer. I've only tried two different times, but can't seem to get it to work. But again, it just seems like the NXT way is a lot more hassle free.

(The main thing that's slowing me down from wanting to even transfer my coins to another computer is the blockchains and the amount of memory that they eat up.)

The main reason NEM will support a local wallet is because quite a few people had their brainwallets robbed. A local wallet is local and as long as noone but you has access to the file and password if it's encrypted you can't get robbed.
We are however also aware of the advantages of a brainwallet and the devs are discussing ways to transfer a wallet in a simple to use fashion.

Just out of curiosity. Were they all due to a brute force  or dictionary attack? Because I think entering something like a user name and password would have probably prevented any brute force or dictionary attacks on NXT.

(When using NXT I do prefer the one line, long password approach, though I recognize that it's not a good idea because many people are just not going to be technical enough to come up with a good password. Many might put in a common phrase, thinking that it's safe just because it's extremely long. Completely unaware of things like dictionary attacks.)

[rix5]

we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

[patmast3r]

we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason  

Well that's something quite unrelated. Exhanges will always require trust. I never keep anything on exchanges unless I'm actively trading.

[j23a]

we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

Just to make it clear, we're not talking about having your wallet on some website hosted on some server.

Personally I think the NXT approach of just having a one line password is a bad approach since many people will invariably pick a password that would be in a dictionary list.

I do think that the average person would be safer if they got to put a name and a password to an NXT style model, with a 60+ character long password. Since the average person is not going to be careful about backing things up, and many will lose everything due to a computer failure, or a virus.

Similar to all those people who lost millions of dollars worth of Bitcoins back in the day. 

[rix5]

you always have to think about the stupid users. If it is not secure for stupid users it is not fit for massadoption. I think more people choose pw from dictionary than one would think. Practically all noobs do.

edit: offering easy backupsolutions/backupservices for noobs could also be a good idea

[j23a]

we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

Just to make it clear, we're not talking about having your wallet on some website hosted on some server.

Personally I think the NXT approach of just having a one line password is a bad approach since many people will invariably pick a password that would be in a dictionary list.

I do think that the average person would be safer if they got to put a name and a password to an NXT style model, with a 60+ character long password. Since the average person is not going to be careful about backing things up, and many will lose everything due to a computer failure, or a virus.

Similar to all those people who lost millions of dollars worth of Bitcoins back in the day.  

I wanted to edit, but I guess quoted.

[j23a]

you always have to think about the stupid users. If it is not secure for stupid users it is not fit for massadoption. I think more people choose pw from dictionary than one would think. Practically all noobs do.

Personally I wouldn't call them stupid, just not computer savvy.

But yeah, you always have to consider them. Unfortunately every system will have flaws against the non computer savvy users. For them a centralized option with a corporation is probably the best option. Unfortunately.

[rix5]

it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...

well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...

using brainwallet is about as easy as having your wallet.dat somewhere encrypted online or carry it on a usb-stick similar how you carry your wallet in your pocket.
I wouldn't feel secure with just that brainwalletsolution.
I would suggest to give people lots of choices so everybody can use what they think is best for them.

[rix5]

you always have to think about the stupid users. If it is not secure for stupid users it is not fit for massadoption. I think more people choose pw from dictionary than one would think. Practically all noobs do.

Personally I wouldn't call them stupid, just not computer savvy.

But yeah, you always have to consider them. Unfortunately every system will have flaws against the non computer savvy users. For them a centralized option with a corporation is probably the best option. Unfortunately.

that's also why we need lots of tutorials later

[iwillimust]

we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...

well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...

Safety is the fundamental problem of coins
If the security can not
Who will go and help others to do things without return?

[j23a]

we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...

well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...

Actually, with current technology a password that would take 100s or thousands of years to brute force would be a password that's under 10 characters long. Every time you add one character, the number of years goes up by a very large amount.

A long time ago I created a program that would tell me how long it would take to brute force a password, based on certain conditions.

I just tried it and a password with ten characters, would take 379.72 years to brute force, if a 95 key keyboard was used, and the computer was testing out 5 billion password per second. Which is a lot more than the average computer can do.

If I add one more charter, the it goes from 379.72 years to 36,037.07 years.

12 characters 3.4 million years
13 characters 325.5 million years
14 characters 30 billion years
15 characters, my computer can't calculated, because the total number of unique passwords is too large. But with just 14 character we already went longer than the age of the universe.

[patmast3r]

we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

it means that it would take 100s if not thousands of years to brute force it...

well what if you go to someones house and you need your coins? ok if you have a 'seed' you can download a wallet but thats a pain in the ass... with brain wallets you can go from one comp to another very easily and move/use your coins.. also with the AE being inclient you can also trade with out even having to send your coins anywhere.. cant do that with offline clients.. also how many peoples computers have been directly hacked and coins stolen? if you state on here you have x amount of coins a good hacker wants then.. im sure they could take them.. brian wallets are the way to go.. for sure.. but there still needs to be support for offline storage i think... personally i think its pointless but if it makes people feel more secure then ok...

You don't have to send them anywhere because they are already "anywhere". I don't see why an AE would be more inconvenient with a local wallet.
You said you have a 512bit password. Since it's impossible for you to remember that (at least if you're an average joe) I suppose you store it somewhere right ? In a file maybe ? So you have to carry that file around to use your wallet anywhere. Now tell me in what way is it better to carry that file around than carrying the wallet file around ?

[pabloangello]

we absolutely need desktopwallets aswell since myself for example don't trust anything that i do not have under my own control. I think others may think the same way. What's not on your own system (desktop wallet) is not really yours.
I wouldn't use any onlinesolution for storing coins. I think it's not safe. An onlinepage with login and password is like an invitation for hackers to brute force.

i am actually pretty excited about nem. Can't wait for release.

i use a 512bit passphrase.. your saying that isnt safe?

i don't even know what that is
i got used to securing desktopwallets though and improved constantly on security and would be nice if i could use that knowledge for nem also.
I never lost a coin that was on my own system. But i lost quite some coins on hacked exchanges. I like my coins offline for that reason  

edit:
the logic is: if it is online theoretically the whole world can try to steal it. If it is not online nobody has really a way to access.

1 byte == 1 sign of ASCII (lets say that it is one alphanumeric sign), then 1 byte == 8 bits. 512/8 == 64 what means that your password should be 64 signs long to call it 512 bit passphrase.