[ANN] [PMC] Premine Coin | Rare | Mining Transaction Fee Proof of Concept

[yogibaer]

Yeah, bit disappointing. Let's hope my miners do not break down then...

Also, it's still not paying anything. I just check, and I mined 42318 blocks last month (yes, over 42 thousand blocks). It paid 1.4PMC in transaction fees, of which 1PMC is from a single transaction. So 0.4PMC in 42317 blocks. So, currently, I am spending around $20 montly to keep the network up, with no return whatsoever...

That's very bad. I guess the 1st problem about fees was and still is that they are not mandatory in the wallet integrated. And in the past weeks the number of transactions lowered.

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[Nullu]

I could always put my block rewarder back on. I'm still happy to distribute PMC to reward miners, but if the coin is being abandoned, is there much point?

[maardein]

I could always put my block rewarder back on. I'm still happy to distribute PMC to reward miners, but if the coin is being abandoned, is there much point?

No there isn't a point really. But the chain needs to be kept alive until the swap at least. I don't really need more PMC, I have quite a bit of it already.

But it does proof I think that we need to move to POS, and abandon the old PMC. I don't think there will be anyone left using and mining the old PMC. We should start moving things.

It does feel good that I would be able to do a 100% attack on the network though

[yogibaer]

yes we have to move forward to PMC2. How can POS work when there is only a limited number of coins?

[ruthless09]

Could everyone stop with all the "we need to ... " and instead start doing that?

[maardein]

yes we have to move forward to PMC2. How can POS work when there is only a limited number of coins?

Well, staking works by just having your wallet open. So, everyone who uses PMC+ is also mining. This does not require any investments, and barely costs any CPU power. This way you can keep transactions going no matter if there is a reward or not. As an incentive we could keep a little PMC+ as POS rewards at the start, and maybe gradually reduce this until there is no POS reward left.

Could everyone stop with all the "we need to ... " and instead start doing that?

I agree. I think TheMightyX should just start the development of a new POS coin with 1.000.000 premined coins. I would also suggest having a mandatory transaction fee of at least 0.0001PMC+.

We can discuss how the premined coins will be distributed during development.

[bungholio]

My Wallet stopp synchronizing at block 170886. Wallet is back since 27h ....
looks like there are no block generated at all any more?

I had a power outage at my home, and somehow had some trouble getting my miners up and running again after that.

Seems like I am the only one still mining PMC?

Yeah looks like that you are the only one mining PMC. My wallets are synced now.

I don't have any asic miner to join mining

Yeah, bit disappointing. Let's hope my miners do not break down then...

Also, it's still not paying anything. I just check, and I mined 42318 blocks last month (yes, over 42 thousand blocks). It paid 1.4PMC in transaction fees, of which 1PMC is from a single transaction. So 0.4PMC in 42317 blocks. So, currently, I am spending around $20 montly to keep the network up, with no return whatsoever...

[edit]
I just started the PMC wallet on the server I have running for thenodeslist.com (yes, that website needs an overhaul/update). You can use it as a node: addnode=thenodeslist.com:9335

If anyone feels like mining, I can give the details to connect to that server so you can mine without having to keep a pc running. There is no pool or anything, it is just like solomining, but to a remote location. As stated before, there is practically no payout, so I am not going to set up a pool. It would be just to make sure the network keeps running.
[/edit]

Post or PM the details on this...I can throw some hashes to it.

[yogibaer]

Could everyone stop with all the "we need to ... " and instead start doing that?

+1

[iGoodw1n]

Maybe clone qora and all coins exchanged for PMC.

[maardein]

Post or PM the details on this...I can throw some hashes to it.

Sent you a PM.

[TheMightyX]

My Wallet stopp synchronizing at block 170886. Wallet is back since 27h ....
looks like there are no block generated at all any more?

I had a power outage at my home, and somehow had some trouble getting my miners up and running again after that.

Seems like I am the only one still mining PMC?

Yeah looks like that you are the only one mining PMC. My wallets are synced now.

I don't have any asic miner to join mining

Yeah, bit disappointing. Let's hope my miners do not break down then...

Also, it's still not paying anything. I just check, and I mined 42318 blocks last month (yes, over 42 thousand blocks). It paid 1.4PMC in transaction fees, of which 1PMC is from a single transaction. So 0.4PMC in 42317 blocks. So, currently, I am spending around $20 montly to keep the network up, with no return whatsoever...

[edit]
I just started the PMC wallet on the server I have running for thenodeslist.com (yes, that website needs an overhaul/update). You can use it as a node: addnode=thenodeslist.com:9335

If anyone feels like mining, I can give the details to connect to that server so you can mine without having to keep a pc running. There is no pool or anything, it is just like solomining, but to a remote location. As stated before, there is practically no payout, so I am not going to set up a pool. It would be just to make sure the network keeps running.
[/edit]

Maardien, it might be a good idea to let the network go quiet until such a time that we are ready to switch over. Then you could facilitate the trade and we can put PMC1 to rest for good. I don't think we can in good conscience ask you to keep running the network. In fact, if that difficulty was to come down I could run it on one of my work computers.

[yogibaer]

Thoughts on how PMC-Holders can transfer their PMC to PMC+. Did anyone make a decision about that?

besides the 1:1 exchange I think of a kind of "step-model" for current PMC holders:

exchange 1:1 for PMC amount up to 1000 PMC
exchange 2:1 for PMC amount from 1001 - 5000 PMC
exchange 3:1 for PMC amount from 5001 - xxxx PMC

This way holders of small amounts have 100% coins exchanged to PMC+ while big holders get a little less PMC+. And we have more left to be distributed or for POS rewards.

any ideas/suggestions for this?

[bungholio]

Thoughts on how PMC-Holders can transfer their PMC to PMC+. Did anyone make a decision about that?

besides the 1:1 exchange I think of a kind of "step-model" for current PMC holders:

exchange 1:1 for PMC amount up to 1000 PMC
exchange 2:1 for PMC amount from 1001 - 5000 PMC
exchange 3:1 for PMC amount from 5001 - xxxx PMC

This way holders of small amounts have 100% coins exchanged to PMC+ while big holders get a little less PMC+. And we have more left to be distributed or for POS rewards.

any ideas/suggestions for this?

The only thing I'd say about this is if I was sitting on 10K PMC I'd have 10 wallets with 1000 in each to get around the exchange rates.  ;-)

[TheMightyX]

yes we have to move forward to PMC2. How can POS work when there is only a limited number of coins?

I think I get what you are asking. Technically it won't "work" until such a time as we sign up a developer and he modifies the protocol to assign tx fees to stakers instead of destroying them. The PoS rewards are there in the meantime to simulate the fees that you would have received. This will give us a maximum of a year to find someone capable (more than enough time).

So, it starts off PoS with % interest. Then the interest ends and people still stake, but instead of getting interest they get transaction fees. This returns us back to the original concept. Unfortunately we have to switch to PoS interest until we get back on our feet and can implement that change.

After careful consideration I think the tx fee should be a percentage of total transaction amount (for example .01%). This way it scales with rising and falling prices.

For example: if the price is high, sending 1 coin with a tx fee of .0001 is fair.
If the price is low, sending 10,000 coins with a tx fee of 1 is fair.

The more fair alternative is to hard code a max amount (0.01% up to a max of X, where X is an arbitrary amount we set in the wallet based on the average price). This would require updating the wallet continually with the current max fee amount (maybe once a month), but would be more egalitarian and fair.

I welcome any arguments on this fee structure.

[TheMightyX]

Could everyone stop with all the "we need to ... " and instead start doing that?

We already are...
If you really want to get the ball moving then maybe you could pitch in to the developer bounty.
We have two donators so far. Myself and Bungholio.

Which reminds me...

[TheMightyX]

Wow, gone for a while and things go crazy again.  I like it!!  I chucked in 0.05BTC to the donation.  Any action is good IMO so I'll keep an eye on this thread and help where I can.  Thanks everyone for the revival!!

MUAHUAHUAHUAHUA YOU'VE FALLEN FOR MY EVIL PLAN!! NOW TO TAKE MY STOLEN .05 BTC AND FLEE THE COUNTARY!!

(yes i said countary)

[TheMightyX]

I could always put my block rewarder back on. I'm still happy to distribute PMC to reward miners, but if the coin is being abandoned, is there much point?

Not at the moment no, but in the future it might be nice to get the tx fees rolling via your quasi-faucet.

I still think it was a pretty clever design  

[bungholio]

Could everyone stop with all the "we need to ... " and instead start doing that?

We already are...
If you really want to get the ball moving then maybe you could pitch in to the developer bounty.
We have two donators so far. Myself and Bungholio.

Which reminds me...

Is that where that 250 came from?  ;-)

[Nullu]

I could always put my block rewarder back on. I'm still happy to distribute PMC to reward miners, but if the coin is being abandoned, is there much point?

Not at the moment no, but in the future it might be nice to get the tx fees rolling via your quasi-faucet.

I still think it was a pretty clever design  

I'm sure we'll find a use for it at some point.

From what's been said so far, it sounds like the conversion of PMC is going to be a manual process. I can imagine that being rather tedious if a lot of people have PMC to convert.

Thoughts on how PMC-Holders can transfer their PMC to PMC+. Did anyone make a decision about that?

besides the 1:1 exchange I think of a kind of "step-model" for current PMC holders:

exchange 1:1 for PMC amount up to 1000 PMC
exchange 2:1 for PMC amount from 1001 - 5000 PMC
exchange 3:1 for PMC amount from 5001 - xxxx PMC

This way holders of small amounts have 100% coins exchanged to PMC+ while big holders get a little less PMC+. And we have more left to be distributed or for POS rewards.

any ideas/suggestions for this?

It's not a bad idea, but I think those ratios are far too steep, and there needs to be more incremental steps inbetween. Those ratios are so high it's not even worth converting anything over 5000, but I do agree in principle.

As has been said, it doesn't stop people from cheating the system, however, so steep ratios like that will only encourage cheating. It makes more sense to have less steep exchange rates, which don't heavily penalise, but the ratio does rise faster as you go further up beyond 5000.

[maardein]

Maardien, it might be a good idea to let the network go quiet until such a time that we are ready to switch over. Then you could facilitate the trade and we can put PMC1 to rest for good. I don't think we can in good conscience ask you to keep running the network. In fact, if that difficulty was to come down I could run it on one of my work computers.

I don't mind keeping the network running for another month or so. I think as long as we have a working exchange and multipool, we need to have working transactions.

Thanks to whoever sent me 250PMC! Let's hope it will be worth something in the future

Something like the stepped exchange could be good, but the suggested rate is way to steep. I know I would 'cheat' the system by making multiple wallets.