[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016]

[CrazyRabbi]

If pricing were part of it then everyone should have a low rating! Nothing being sold at retail will make a positive ROI even with free power.

And that makes any guide at this point useless. This might be the end of this portion of the forum considering it was the user coming here to discuss hardware that made it relevant. As time goes on there will be no more interest or users.

Why does it have to be about ROI?

Alot of people mine simply because they can...

It's not about the ohh shit ROI in 2 months to me.

It's about the ohh shit broke ROI 6 times over after a year to me.

It doesn't but you are not going to get 100s of people coming here to buy things that don't ROI. Games over for the home user and by default this forum will fade as fewer people engage in this hobby.

That is complete garbage and you know it.

There's actually more miners then there ever was.

Do you understand how difficulty works?

It gets harder and harder to mine to reach this ROI you speak of.

It requires you to get bigger and faster miners to compete.

If anything the Bitcoin Network relies on fast confirmation times and blocks to be mined so if anything all that will happen is the miners will turn into centralization or work together with other miners.

I don't see people ever stopping their purchasing of Bitcoin Miners nor do I see anyone stopping even SCRYPT ASiC Purchases now.

Your logic is flawed and obviously you have not been around since a Bitcoin was worth a couple of dollars each.

[Lassi]

If pricing were part of it then everyone should have a low rating! Nothing being sold at retail will make a positive ROI even with free power.

And that makes any guide at this point useless. This might be the end of this portion of the forum considering it was the user coming here to discuss hardware that made it relevant. As time goes on there will be no more interest or users.

Why does it have to be about ROI?

Alot of people mine simply because they can...

It's not about the ohh shit ROI in 2 months to me.

It's about the ohh shit broke ROI 6 times over after a year to me.

It doesn't but you are not going to get 100s of people coming here to buy things that don't ROI. Games over for the home user and by default this forum will fade as fewer people engage in this hobby.

That is complete garbage and you know it.

There's actually more miners then there ever was.

Do you understand how difficulty works?

It gets harder and harder to mine to reach this ROI you speak of.

It requires you to get bigger and faster miners to compete.

If anything the Bitcoin Network relies on fast confirmation times and blocks to be mined so if anything all that will happen is the miners will turn into centralization or work together with other miners.

I don't see people ever stopping their purchasing of Bitcoin Miners nor do I see anyone stopping even SCRYPT ASiC Purchases now.

Your logic is flawed and obviously you have not been around since a Bitcoin was worth a couple of dollars each.

Logic is flawed?

We will see who is BUYING but I dare say it won't be a public consumer at home.

Consolidation will continue and those people buying are not coming here to debate the value of one producer over another. This forum is becoming less relevant every day. What you will see from this point forward are the death throws of some companies and the continued complaint threads about the latest scam or legal play against other companies. Whatever is cutting edge is being developed for commercial customers not the small home user.

You are naive to think the same market continues today as it did in 2009 or 2010 or 2011 and so on.

[CrazyRabbi]

If pricing were part of it then everyone should have a low rating! Nothing being sold at retail will make a positive ROI even with free power.

And that makes any guide at this point useless. This might be the end of this portion of the forum considering it was the user coming here to discuss hardware that made it relevant. As time goes on there will be no more interest or users.

Why does it have to be about ROI?

Alot of people mine simply because they can...

It's not about the ohh shit ROI in 2 months to me.

It's about the ohh shit broke ROI 6 times over after a year to me.

It doesn't but you are not going to get 100s of people coming here to buy things that don't ROI. Games over for the home user and by default this forum will fade as fewer people engage in this hobby.

That is complete garbage and you know it.

There's actually more miners then there ever was.

Do you understand how difficulty works?

It gets harder and harder to mine to reach this ROI you speak of.

It requires you to get bigger and faster miners to compete.

If anything the Bitcoin Network relies on fast confirmation times and blocks to be mined so if anything all that will happen is the miners will turn into centralization or work together with other miners.

I don't see people ever stopping their purchasing of Bitcoin Miners nor do I see anyone stopping even SCRYPT ASiC Purchases now.

Your logic is flawed and obviously you have not been around since a Bitcoin was worth a couple of dollars each.

Logic is flawed?

We will see who is BUYING but I dare say it won't be a public consumer at home.

Consolidation will continue and those people buying are not coming here to debate the value of one producer over another. This forum is becoming less relevant every day. What you will see from this point forward are the death throws of some companies and the continued complaint threads about the latest scam or legal play against other companies. Whatever is cutting edge is being developed for commercial customers not the small home user.

You are naive to think the same market continues today as it did in 2009 or 2010 or 2011 and so on.

Bold = Truth

[Collider]

This whole discussion is useless.

As the industry matures, mining will obviously move (even more) towards bigger instalations, and you may be able to secure some hosted mining power /share of the facilty.

If the bitcoin price returns to 600$ soon, home mining will continue to exist in a larger fashion compared to the price staying at these levels.

It only delays this movement though.

[dogie]

3) Lack of support? They're the first company to actually hire a proper representative purely to increase communications.
4) Untested firmware releases? Engineers were getting heckled so much for a firmware update that they pushed an update with one file location wrong. It was fixed within a day, and within the meantime another member of staff had already shown the workaround.

Yes lack of support. I think that you missed this post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=515448.msg9163035#msg9163035 It seems that the S2 firmware isn't up to date and all S2s are in danger of having their hashrate stolen. Don't judge entirely on the past actions, judge by the present actions. (like in AMs case where they are represented by not having preorders when they DO have preorders)

No I've not missed it, I've replied about 10x to "where is S2 firmware" posts and get flamed every time I do for "spreading lies". Its coming when its coming, what do you want ME to do about it? If you want to include cgminer version in the chart then the vast majority of companies fail on that because most don't support what is considered a legacy product.

[dogie]

I can do what I want, but you have to use facts not made up stuff.

1) Price has nothing to do with this guide, if its too expensive don't buy...
2) Underperforming, where? Every unit hits over the 2.0 selling mark. If not, then you're ignoring the instructions to use a manual difficulty of 2048.
3) Lack of support? They're the first company to actually hire a proper representative purely to increase communications.
4) Untested firmware releases? Engineers were getting heckled so much for a firmware update that they pushed an update with one file location wrong. It was fixed within a day, and within the meantime another member of staff had already shown the workaround.

It only takes one look at your post history to see that you'll disagree with anything I say regardless, purely because one of the three pools listed you disagree with: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=371518;sa=showPosts

1) I won't.
2) Wrong. Read the thread again.
3) Who's the proper rep?
4) Maybe if they tested the first release properly/at all they wouldn't get heckled.

1) Good, then you're just a heckler
2) Right, the only problem is PSU failures
3) Me?
4) I don't understand your problem... people were spam abusing them for not releasing an incremental update which doesn't do anything important at all, then flamed more when they had to either use a 2 minute workaround to flash it or had to wait another 24 hours. Why?

But it doesn't matter anyway, you're not a customer.

[deleterase]

3) Lack of support? They're the first company to actually hire a proper representative purely to increase communications.
4) Untested firmware releases? Engineers were getting heckled so much for a firmware update that they pushed an update with one file location wrong. It was fixed within a day, and within the meantime another member of staff had already shown the workaround.

Yes lack of support. I think that you missed this post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=515448.msg9163035#msg9163035 It seems that the S2 firmware isn't up to date and all S2s are in danger of having their hashrate stolen. Don't judge entirely on the past actions, judge by the present actions. (like in AMs case where they are represented by not having preorders when they DO have preorders)

No I've not missed it, I've replied about 10x to "where is S2 firmware" posts and get flamed every time I do for "spreading lies". Its coming when its coming, what do you want ME to do about it?

How about doing what Bitmain are paying you to do? Find out from them WTF they are playing at. Or are you getting paid to just repeat their excuses over & over again?

2) Right, the only problem is PSU failures

Are you kidding? S4's only work out of the box on one pool after manually setting the diff - on every other pool they fail miserably, not even close to the advertised hash rate, especially with p2pool.

3) Me?

Yeah. Right. You still think & tell everyone that the S4's problems are firmware related, even though it's been explained to you by people who are in the know (including ck) that the problem is hardware. You are under qualified for this role, Bitmain are just using you to take the heat for their cock-ups on their behalf while knowing that you won't write anything negative in your manufacturer "review". You were always on a hiding to nothing by being paid by Bitmain to even attempt to be able to offer support for them, but you chose to do it anyway. But thinking that anyone who disagrees with you or proves you wrong is "flaming" you or "out to get" you is just daft.

Stop making excuses for Bitmain, provide support or quit your job. Your life will be much easier & you might even get some respect back  

[dogie]

How about doing what Bitmain are paying you to do? Find out from them WTF they are playing at. Or are you getting paid to just repeat their excuses over & over again?

As I said, I get flamed by people like you for asking them, and relaying the message. You don't want to hear anything but the firmware is uploaded, so what is the point repeating the same answer 15x and getting flamed 15x? See the S2 thread.

Are you kidding? S4's only work out of the box on one pool after manually setting the diff - on every other pool they fail miserably, not even close to the advertised hash rate, especially with p2pool.

Any pool with manual difficulty, which is more than 1. You're using the argument "if I don't configure it as required, I don't get the hash rate". That's like saying if you only plug in half a PSU, its their fault.

Yeah. Right. You still think & tell everyone that the S4's problems are firmware related, even though it's been explained to you by people who are in the know (including ck) that the problem is hardware. You are under qualified for this role, Bitmain are just using you to take the heat for their cock-ups on their behalf while knowing that you won't write anything negative in your manufacturer "review". You were always on a hiding to nothing by being paid by Bitmain to even attempt to be able to offer support for them, but you chose to do it anyway. But thinking that anyone who disagrees with you or proves you wrong is "flaming" you or "out to get" you is just daft.

Stop making excuses for Bitmain, provide support or quit your job. Your life will be much easier & you might even get some respect back 

Just because two people disagree doesn't make one right and one wrong. Ck says its hardware based because if you spam it with 128x the traffic than the pool is meant to give it, it crashes. I disagree and say that if its fixable with firmware [which it is], then its not a hardware problem. Sure they could have used a better controller [I too hate BBs], but tldr all the units will be fixed without changing the hardware.

Its like if your PC kept crashing because of the graphics driver.

You keep saying "provide support" but 1) you're providing lose lose situations. If I come back to you and say S2 firmware is coming, you'll flame me. If I don't, you'll flame me. 2) You're not a customer and are only here flaming me because again you're a second account / another person that doesn't like a pool that is listed in my guides: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=377806;sa=showPosts;start=20. This is nothing to do with Bitmain, you're just here to flame.

[MrTeal]

Just because two people disagree doesn't make one right and one wrong. Ck says its hardware based because if you spam it with 128x the traffic than the pool is meant to give it, it crashes. I disagree and say that if its fixable with firmware [which it is], then its not a hardware problem. Sure they could have used a better controller [I too hate BBs], but tldr all the units will be fixed without changing the hardware.

Its like if your PC kept crashing because of the graphics driver.

I would say a better analogy is that you bought a PC, but it was so underpowered that it would crash if you open a browser and go to a website. If someone provides a hack that disables displaying any images so you can at least navigate the internet with text only, that doesn't mean it's fully functional or the root cause of the problem isn't the underpowered hardware.

[dogie]

Just because two people disagree doesn't make one right and one wrong. Ck says its hardware based because if you spam it with 128x the traffic than the pool is meant to give it, it crashes. I disagree and say that if its fixable with firmware [which it is], then its not a hardware problem. Sure they could have used a better controller [I too hate BBs], but tldr all the units will be fixed without changing the hardware.

Its like if your PC kept crashing because of the graphics driver.

I would say a better analogy is that you bought a PC, but it was so underpowered that it would crash if you open a browser and go to a website. If someone provides a hack that disables displaying any images so you can at least navigate the internet with text only, that doesn't mean it's fully functional or the root cause of the problem isn't the underpowered hardware.

And in the analogy the site would have to be trying to load 128 windows at once, rather than the site you wanted. And in this case, the software fix prevents the crash and instead of loading 128 windows at once, loads them in chunks of 32 instead.

Back to what I was saying though, if it can be fixed remotely with a simple firmware update then its my opinion that its a software problem. If it requires the recalling of 1000s of units or the shipping out of a new controller board, then its my opinion that that would be a hardware problem.

[MrTeal]

Just because two people disagree doesn't make one right and one wrong. Ck says its hardware based because if you spam it with 128x the traffic than the pool is meant to give it, it crashes. I disagree and say that if its fixable with firmware [which it is], then its not a hardware problem. Sure they could have used a better controller [I too hate BBs], but tldr all the units will be fixed without changing the hardware.

Its like if your PC kept crashing because of the graphics driver.

I would say a better analogy is that you bought a PC, but it was so underpowered that it would crash if you open a browser and go to a website. If someone provides a hack that disables displaying any images so you can at least navigate the internet with text only, that doesn't mean it's fully functional or the root cause of the problem isn't the underpowered hardware.

And in the analogy the site would have to be trying to load 128 windows at once, rather than the site you wanted. And in this case, the software fix prevents the crash and instead of loading 128 windows at once, loads them in chunks of 32 instead.

Back to what I was saying though, if it can be fixed remotely with a simple firmware update then its my opinion that its a software problem. If it requires the recalling of 1000s of units or the shipping out of a new controller board, then its my opinion that that would be a hardware problem.

That analogy would make sense if that was the normal way websites work. The simple fact is that they released a device that didn't work with a large number of pools using a relatively standard method of adjusting difficulty, because the hardware isn't able to keep up.
I guess it will depend if it can be made to run normally with most/all pools with a software fix. From my understanding it still only works on a subset of pools and on many them it is still only giving half the hashrate it should. If there's been an update that has corrected that problem, then that's fine.

[IYFTech]

The simple fact is that they released a device that didn't work with a large number of pools using a relatively standard method of adjusting difficulty, because the hardware isn't able to keep up.
I guess it will depend if it can be made to run normally with most/all pools with a software fix. From my understanding it still only works on a subset of pools and on many them it is still only giving half the hashrate it should. If there's been an update that has corrected that problem, then that's fine.

There hasn't.

It is clear that whatever payment dogie is receiving from Bitmain has blinded him to the reality of the situation, which was probably their intention.

[Blazed]

Well he has never claimed this guide is not biased so you can not fault him. This is simply one guys opinions about ASIC companies. For some reason I thought he was also paid by AM for support too? I think dogie does a nice job with his guides and stuff...albeit a little biased.

[deleterase]

Those S4's are fine......really.......nothing to see here......

Hi all,
I am very disgusted with S4 quality. I ordered 10 psc, 6 working fine (not well) 1 miner have a lot of xx in Asic status (more than 60 xx) and 3 PSUs burnt. I am really curious how bitmain will compensate ours losses! I do not recommend S4 for buy.
I enclose pics of burnt PSUs.
   

Fire extinguishers at the ready people........

[dogie]

The simple fact is that they released a device that didn't work with a large number of pools using a relatively standard method of adjusting difficulty, because the hardware isn't able to keep up.
I guess it will depend if it can be made to run normally with most/all pools with a software fix. From my understanding it still only works on a subset of pools and on many them it is still only giving half the hashrate it should. If there's been an update that has corrected that problem, then that's fine.

There will be a fix, but for now there is a perfectly acceptable workaround which gets everyone to 103% hash rate instantly.

There hasn't.

It is clear that whatever payment dogie is receiving from Bitmain has blinded him to the reality of the situation, which was probably their intention.

Its clear your hatred of a mining pool - along with many of either your or someone elses alts - is being used as an excuse to spam hate at Bitmain as a way to get at me. And due to me rejecting your 'kind' offer for my miners.

[dogie]

Those S4's are fine......really.......nothing to see here......

Hi all,
I am very disgusted with S4 quality. I ordered 10 psc, 6 working fine (not well) 1 miner have a lot of xx in Asic status (more than 60 xx) and 3 PSUs burnt. I am really curious how bitmain will compensate ours losses! I do not recommend S4 for buy.
I enclose pics of burnt PSUs.

Fire extinguishers at the ready people........

They're aware of the problems, this manufacturer makes PSUs for a number of ASIC companies now and they've certainly messed up. I don't recommend anyone opens up a PSU, you never know the discharge times.

[dogie]

Well he has never claimed this guide is not biased so you can not fault him. This is simply one guys opinions about ASIC companies. For some reason I thought he was also paid by AM for support too? I think dogie does a nice job with his guides and stuff...albeit a little biased.

I am not biased. People have and will always continue to accuse me of being biased - towards every company - at the same time - both positively and negatively - at the same time. You can look back over the last 42 pages and see the fail in action.

I should probably make another resource charting what companies I'm apparently biased for or against over time to demonstrate the crazy. In many cases, like IYFTech, he's actually mad at me for an undisclosed reason and one totally irrelevant to the conversation. He's mad at me because I refused to point a miner I had for sale at his pool so he could validate it, so he could then throw me an admittedly lowball offer.

There are many accounts in here spamming hate because of one of the mining pools listed in my guides. They actually don't care about Bitmain and probably a large portion of them were never customers. That is just the makeup of this community and as I said before, it never changes.

[IYFTech]

Its clear your hatred of a mining pool - along with many of either your or someone elses alts - is being used as an excuse to spam hate at Bitmain as a way to get at me. And due to me rejecting your 'kind' offer for my miners.

Why do you keep going on about a mining pool? It has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter. I don't hate any mining pool, but I do hate liars & scammers - one of which you have no problem with advertising on your guides. If you are willing to accept payment from scammers, then you have to be prepared for the criticism for doing so. Deal with it.

Also, FYI - Bitmain (your employer) had no problem with my request for pointing one of their fireballs S4's at p2pool to test it for me so that I could see if it worked or not (which of course it didn't - even though they claim it does) & decide weather to purchase one. They didn't start foaming at the mouth, go into meltdown or abuse a potential buyer like you did.....

WTF is wrong with you?

Since when did you become so important that nobody can question you? How long have you been right, even when you're wrong? You are suffering from delusional visions of grandeur dogie - get off your high horse & come back to reality. You're no better or higher than anyone else here.

[dogie]

Its clear your hatred of a mining pool - along with many of either your or someone elses alts - is being used as an excuse to spam hate at Bitmain as a way to get at me. And due to me rejecting your 'kind' offer for my miners.

Why do you keep going on about a mining pool? It has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter. I don't hate any mining pool, but I do hate liars & scammers - one of which you have no problem with advertising on your guides. If you are willing to accept payment from scammers, then you have to be prepared for the criticism for doing so. Deal with it.

Also, FYI - Bitmain (your employer) had no problem with my request for pointing one of their fireballs S4's at p2pool to test it for me so that I could see if it worked or not (which of course it didn't - even though they claim it does) & decide weather to purchase one. They didn't start foaming at the mouth, go into meltdown or abuse a potential buyer like you did.....

WTF is wrong with you?

Since when did you become so important that nobody can question you? How long have you been right, even when you're wrong? You are suffering from delusional visions of grandeur dogie - get off your high horse & come back to reality. You're no better or higher than anyone else here.

So tldr, yes it is about a pool that is listed, and yes it is because I rejected your low ball offer with hoop jumping involved.

[dlowings]

Those S4's are fine......really.......nothing to see here......

Hi all,
I am very disgusted with S4 quality. I ordered 10 psc, 6 working fine (not well) 1 miner have a lot of xx in Asic status (more than 60 xx) and 3 PSUs burnt. I am really curious how bitmain will compensate ours losses! I do not recommend S4 for buy.
I enclose pics of burnt PSUs.

Fire extinguishers at the ready people........

They're aware of the problems, this manufacturer makes PSUs for a number of ASIC companies now and they've certainly messed up. I don't recommend anyone opens up a PSU, you never know the discharge times.

I would also like to re state what Dogie said here about opening up a PSU… The "ONLY" reason I opened mine was to confirm my issue… To be clear even when a PSU is NOT plugged in there is enough energy in the capasitors to stop your heart… BE VERY VERY VERY careful with these things… I can't stress this enough, people have been killed opening up PSU's and poking around in something they knew nothing about… I could repeat this a 1000 times and it would not be enough… I know most miners are just in this to have some fun, but its not worth going to hospital because you didn't know that a unplugged PSU could still be energized to the point where it can stop your heart ...