[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[klondike_bar]

Price is now $1999 for our Prospector it seems

thats good. $2999 was insulting.  $2000 might be low enough to get some sales, though with current BTC prices thats about 4.5BTC  (you could have 5 antminers for that price)

[kleeck]

Price is now $1999 for our Prospector it seems

thats good. $2999 was insulting.  $2000 might be low enough to get some sales, though with current BTC prices thats about 4.5BTC  (you could have 5 antminers for that price)

This is the sole complaint I've heard in my limited market research. Antminers seem to be readily available and come in at under $3/Gh. If Ken can place VMC in that range I think we'll see more product movement. Although, I don't really mind mining on them either.

[damiano]

Price is now $1999 for our Prospector it seems

thats good. $2999 was insulting.  $2000 might be low enough to get some sales, though with current BTC prices thats about 4.5BTC  (you could have 5 antminers for that price)

Would those 5 Ant's come with power supply? 

Also need to factor in power & costs

[kleeck]

Price is now $1999 for our Prospector it seems

thats good. $2999 was insulting.  $2000 might be low enough to get some sales, though with current BTC prices thats about 4.5BTC  (you could have 5 antminers for that price)

Would those 5 Ant's come with power supply? 

Also need to factor in power & costs

I know very little about the Antminer, I'm just relaying the complaints I've heard against the Prospector.

[Ozymandias2]

Looks like VMC was just mentioned in a coindesk article. Not exactly complimentary, but a fair summary of what has happened so far.


http://www.coindesk.com/mining-hardware-companies-miners-roundup/

[klondike_bar]

Price is now $1999 for our Prospector it seems

thats good. $2999 was insulting.  $2000 might be low enough to get some sales, though with current BTC prices thats about 4.5BTC  (you could have 5 antminers for that price)

Would those 5 Ant's come with power supply? 

Also need to factor in power & costs

no. neither does the VMC product. which brings me back to my other concern

it does NOT ship with cooling solution (it suggests the H80i), but has absolutely no warranty because the units are 'tested' - how can you not offer a basic warranty for a product that has an exposed chip and ask that the customer apply the heatsink/WC themselves? its begging for the chip to be scratched or the heatsink mounted poorly

this board is less plug-and-play than an antminer, and as mentioned there are 1TH/1000W devices from china for ~7BTC

[RoadStress]

Alright I purchased one of these cards because I'm curious (And it went down $1,000 still making it a little high in price but much better). Let's see how long it takes to get to Florida.

Post a review when you get it!

[Flashman]

it does NOT ship with cooling solution (it suggests the H80i), but has absolutely no warranty because the units are 'tested' - how can you not offer a basic warranty for a product that has an exposed chip and ask that the customer apply the heatsink/WC themselves? its begging for the chip to be scratched or the heatsink mounted poorly

I don't think AMD or Intel ever had an "anti-idiocy" policy on this with CPUs that had exposed cores, either you know what you're doing or you're going to lose a lot of money... in general, not just in bitcoin endeavors. You broke it you bought it.

[minerpart]

Wow Ken, amazing. Great work!

It has been a real learning process, I have to give all the credit to my Project Manager.

Ken you are a genuine guy and a humble one too so hats off to you. I only invested in the company after seeing the pics of you standing outside the VMC company offices. To me you looked like a decent down to earth and hard working businessman with experience of life and that is what finally sold me on your project. (That and the fact no scam artist would open themselves up like you did from the start.) We should always invest in people not in companies and their gloss, people bring success to companies and no amount of fancy PR or grand predictions replaces the work of capable hardworking honest staff trying their best.

This market is difficult and it is highly competitive and fast moving, but you are at long last delivering. Enough said. Well done that man!

[Mabsark]

it does NOT ship with cooling solution (it suggests the H80i), but has absolutely no warranty because the units are 'tested' - how can you not offer a basic warranty for a product that has an exposed chip and ask that the customer apply the heatsink/WC themselves? its begging for the chip to be scratched or the heatsink mounted poorly

In the EU, a 2 year warranty is standard regardless of what the manufacturer or reseller says.

[toastee]

Wow Ken, amazing. Great work!

It has been a real learning process, I have to give all the credit to my Project Manager.

Ken you are a genuine guy and a humble one too so hats off to you. I only invested in the company after seeing the pics of you standing outside the VMC company offices. To me you looked like a decent down to earth and hard working businessman with experience of life and that is what finally sold me on your project. (That and the fact no scam artist would open themselves up like you did from the start.) We should always invest in people not in companies and their gloss, people bring success to companies and no amount of fancy PR or grand predictions replaces the work of capable hardworking honest staff trying their best.

This market is difficult and it is highly competitive and fast moving, but you are at long last delivering. Enough said. Well done that man!

This. Everyone invested in this is obviously really high-strung because we expected returns way sooner, but I guarantee most of the investors here would never have the balls to jump into this extremely volatile industry with both feet like Ken did. We're now seeing progress and things are moving forward, regardless of if we would have considered it to be the "best" way several months ago.

The trolls (who don't even own shares) will always exist, but the moderators of this thread are doing a great job keeping it all together.

Onward and upward, keep it going Ken!

[drawingthesun]

it does NOT ship with cooling solution (it suggests the H80i), but has absolutely no warranty because the units are 'tested' - how can you not offer a basic warranty for a product that has an exposed chip and ask that the customer apply the heatsink/WC themselves? its begging for the chip to be scratched or the heatsink mounted poorly

In the EU, a 2 year warranty is standard regardless of what the manufacturer or reseller says.

This is true, but if the product requires user 'installation' and they fudge it, the warranty would not apply.

Warranty covers defects that lay within scope of the product design. If the product requires cooling to operate (similar to a electric kettle needing water inside so it doesn't burn out) and the user opts to not cool or install the product correctly then they lay outside the scope of the warranty.

I would urge Ken to make the demands of the product explicitly clear on the packaging AND the product description on the website. Leaving this information off of the specifications will allow the consumer to litigate based on false advertising.

[minerpart]

In the EU, a 2 year warranty is standard regardless of what the manufacturer or reseller says.

Not true. The EU Directive is in theory mandatory but in reality each country in Europe sets it's own laws on warranty or in essence has its own implementation or interpretation of the EU Directive. So for example in the UK you are protected for around 6 months (depending on the item, the wording of the Act is 'reasonable amount of time') from defect and can ask for a replacement but after 6months have passed the onus is on you to prove there was a manufacturing fault with the item present when you bought it. To prove that you would need to pay for an engineering report. So in the UK the statutory warranty is considered 6months minimum but most manufactures give a voluntary 12month  defect warranty or electrical goods such as TV's or PC's for example.

If we are worried about people frying their chips by not operating the equipment properly that would be something that voids any warranty statutory or not. The equipment must be used as intended and if it is seen that thermal paste was not applied correctly then the customer is not due a replacement as they have damaged it themselves.

[Mabsark]

In the EU, a 2 year warranty is standard regardless of what the manufacturer or reseller says.

Not true. The EU Directive is in theory mandatory but in reality each country in Europe sets it's own laws on warranty or in essence has its own implementation or interpretation of the EU Directive. So for example in the UK you are protected for around 6 months (depending on the item, the wording of the Act is 'reasonable amount of time') from defect and can ask for a replacement but after 6months have passed the onus is on you to prove there was a manufacturing fault with the item present when you bought it. To prove that you would need to pay for an engineering report. So in the UK the statutory warranty is considered 6months minimum but most manufactures give a voluntary 12month  defect warranty or electrical goods such as TV's or PC's for example.

If we are worried about people frying their chips by not operating the equipment properly that would be something that voids any warranty statutory or not. The equipment must be used as intended and if it is seen that thermal paste was not applied correctly then the customer is not due a replacement as they have damaged it themselves.

Apple thought that too, then got bitch slapped.

In March, Apple was defeated in Italian courts for violating a European law that states that companies should offer a free two-year warranty for faulty products. Apple was fined €900,000 for only offering a one year warranty and selling a two-three year warranty to customers. Consumer groups in Germany, The Netherlands and Spain, also asked regulators to get Apple to change its warranty offering.
...
Under EU law Apple now offers to repair or replace a product within two years if "Defects present when customer takes delivery".

[drawingthesun]

Another solution is to force the cards to last 2 years by underclocking the chips so thermal stress on the board is minimal. Many PC manufacturers do this.

Make sure it is known that changing the clock speed voids the warranty.

The users can post tutorials for changing the clock speed of the card.

Remember these devices are high performance but we need to dial them down a notch otherwise all the customers will ask for refunds in a years time when they are no longer pulling in bitcoin.

If Ken isn't smart about this we will be taken for a ride. A mining card is extremely high performance and will eventually break due to thermal stress.

[Mabsark]

I agree with you DTS. What Ken can't do though is just claim "no warranty" and expect that to fly in the EU.

[Ozymandias2]

Latest update was very exciting, good work Ken! DTS has a good point about the warranty which I will quote for extra emphasis:

Another solution is to force the cards to last 2 years by underclocking the chips so thermal stress on the board is minimal. Many PC manufacturers do this.

Make sure it is known that changing the clock speed voids the warranty.

The users can post tutorials for changing the clock speed of the card.

Remember these devices are high performance but we need to dial them down a notch otherwise all the customers will ask for refunds in a years time when they are no longer pulling in bitcoin.

Ken, can you also give us an update on the MSD investigation and a potential timeline of when trading might be re-enabled and accumulated dividends paid out? For now, even just the month would be a welcome piece of knowledge.

[minerpart]

Apple thought that too, then got bitch slapped.

In March, Apple was defeated in Italian courts for violating a European law that states that companies should offer a free two-year warranty for faulty products. Apple was fined €900,000 for only offering a one year warranty and selling a two-three year warranty to customers. Consumer groups in Germany, The Netherlands and Spain, also asked regulators to get Apple to change its warranty offering.
...
Under EU law Apple now offers to repair or replace a product within two years if "Defects present when customer takes delivery".

Sorry but wrong again:

https://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/products/iphone-english-uk.html

Apple offer a voluntary 1 Year warranty in the UK and Ireland. As I said our local legislation is what decides this. Italy may opt for the EU 2 year Directive but the UK does not and other countries will likely vary in their local laws.

Apple also stipulate what voids this warranty (their voluntary one) and that includes:

'(d) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, liquid contact, fire, earthquake or other external cause; (e) to damage caused by operating the Apple Product outside the user manual, the technical specifications or other Apple Product published guidelines; (f) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not a representative of Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider ("AASP"); '

[drawingthesun]

I agree with you DTS. What Ken can't do though is just claim "no warranty" and expect that to fly in the EU.

I completely agree. Very few jurisdictions will let such behaviour pass as they have closed many loopholes used by the big boys.

You cannot say no warranty and if you ship to a place, you must obey the law of that place.

To Ken, if you read this please do the following:

- Make it clear on the packaging and the website that the cards need cooling and must have some amount of assembly. Do this to avoid any customers litigating based on false advertisment.
- Make sure the cards by default are not blazing at highest power that will cause high thermal stress after a year. This way the users can offer tutorials on the forum about how to reclock the cards to make them run faster.

If they can shit on Apple, they will shit on us. And the last thing we need is a bunch of miners asking for refunds after they have mined the crap out of their cards.

Also before you say "wait a minute, if they want a replacement then fine I'll just send them the same card in a years time" think about this: You will have no cards of that type in stock in a year and you'll be forced to either send the miner a brand new card to mine bitcoin or you'll have to offer the usd value refund.

Be smart about this.

We don't want to send a new card or refund cash in a years time, we don't want to hold onto old stock just for this eventuality, we want to make sure under default sale these cards do not fail, therefore underclock and make them safe as burgers.

[Flashman]

Also before you say "wait a minute, if they want a replacement then fine I'll just send them the same card in a years time" think about this: You will have no cards of that type in stock in a year and you'll be forced to either send the miner a brand new card to mine bitcoin or you'll have to offer the usd value refund.

I see a lot of "repair or replace at our option" warranties, where they also may send you a refurb item.... basically in a years time, you could buy one for $100 out of teh classifieds, clean it up, "recertify" it (Turns on, hashes, done) and give the customer that.