[ANN][WOLF] Project WOLF

[Zeegeuze]

For the first time this week (at least the first time I saw) the price on Polo is the same as the buying price of the Dev... This means only now it is worth buying directly from the Dev (I was 5 minutes late sending my money to win that last extra 1% ;-) ). The first weeks the Dev bought all those low orders himself with money from the pot: why didn't this happen this week? This would have gained the Dev a lot of extra money to play with!

[InsanityDev]

For the first time this week (at least the first time I saw) the price on Polo is the same as the buying price of the Dev... This means only now it is worth buying directly from the Dev (I was 5 minutes late sending my money to win that last extra 1% ;-) ). The first weeks the Dev bought all those low orders himself with money from the pot: why didn't this happen this week? This would have gained the Dev a lot of extra money to play with!

It did happen several times, however on a few occasions I let people in under 0.001, it appears some of them didn't sell back, and could thus afford to turn back in to BTC at a lower price. Obviously it's less profit if they're playing this week though, and obviously those who bought under 0.001 on market during the week didn't provide the btc to buy their own orders back!

Regarding Promotion, I'm keen to have the infrastructure ready for after week 9, so that's taking precedence at the minute, should be viable to get something set up pr wise tomorrow though, keen to hear any ideas you all have.. there are a lot of wolves who have far more control over pr, price, and all things insanitycoin than I do

[Zeegeuze]

And the price is back below 0.001... How it that possible that so many people sell so low?? And keep putting new sell orders below the official price?

Is there anything in the pot for this week already? Otherwise it's going to be a pretty boring Sunday...

[mmihai1978]

pot is still zero for this week and this Sunday will be everything but boring. Will be exciting .

If pot will be zero after the cut-off time, then I pledge to buy 1,000 wolf from the bag-holders for 0.0001 BTC per 1 wolf.

[mikem]

I think the dev has successfully chased many wolf owners away, we are tired of every coin going in the tank, and he kind of forced wolf down below his normal buy price. Now people just want out. If I could sell my 5500wolf for .00102 I'd be gone too.

[InsanityDev]

I think the dev has successfully chased many wolf owners away, we are tired of every coin going in the tank, and he kind of forced wolf down below his normal buy price. Now people just want out. If I could sell my 5500wolf for .00102 I'd be gone too.

I'd love to be able to put my finger on what it was, from my side here's what happened over a few weeks:

• week one: fewer players with orders spread out, entailed buy price went very high
• week two: more players with orders less spread out, entailed buy price went up a little
• week three+: roughly the same amount of players, but sell orders very tightly bunched

each week I've been left with a simple choice:

(a) throw all the btc at the order book in one go, this doesn't move the price noticeable as all sell orders are so tightly bunched, I did it one week to much discontent.
(b) trade actively in a small spread, this doesn't move price noticeable but does allow active traders to make a profit in whichever currency, the down side is that it doesn't lift the price / value of the coin, and it doesn't encourage anybody new on board.

Ultimately, each week there's a huge wall of sell orders which the BTC pot at any level can't clear. Fifty traders all trying to make a small profit in BTC just doesn't work mathematically, and this shows each week.

I've honestly been very surprised by the bunching of orders, and in some cases the loss taking.. it doesn't make much sense to me.

Simply, if there was a spread out order book, each week I'd throw the BTC pot at it and the price would rise significantly - but rather many of those buying wolf force the price to be as close to supply price as possible, and it puts me in a position of being responsible for no-rise, even though there's no action I can take to counteract it. I've tried each week to make spreads and lift price any way I can, people just keep bidding lower than each other.

Every week roughly 80% of all wolf on market is offered within 10% of the supply price, the remainder after it. Or put another way, if the pot was 150 btc one week (with a random 50 btc thrown in), the first 120 BTC would lift the price by ~10%, and the remaining 30 BTC would lift the price by 90-500%.

If somebody who consistently placed the lowest order, or even orders within the first 50 btc worth, could elaborate on why, I'd be really interested to know the logic behind it. I've seen it on other coins and I'd often assumed it was miners or coin creators doing this, but now that I know it's traders doing it with coins they've bought for a set price, I'm a bit at a loss to know why (and it impacts us all massively outside of wolf in the other coins we collectively hold).

[mmihai1978]

My conclusions are the following:

- the strategy to destroy as much as wolf as possible MUST be (and should have been) pursued ruthlessly. Forget the profit for wolf holders; if the dev can buy wolf below par - great.

- a simple market making service should be offered; the spreads of course should be awful  (ie: 0.0005). Its sole purpose would be to provide psychological relief.

- last Sunday much more Wolf could have been destroyed, but it wasn't, that's why the sell book looks the way it does and sale pressure is so high.

Everyone note that the above is not criticism, only my biased view on things, which may be wrong of course!

[InsanityDev]

Proposal

I'd like to cancel this week Insanity Sunday, and instead call a meeting in freenode from 18:00-00:00 UTC (nobody need be there for that long, it's more for me to update other people who are in different time zones).

The purpose of the meeting will be to propose and discuss changed game dynamics. I have two different proposals myself which I'd like to discuss in depth, one in particular which would incrementally lift the supply and market price, whilst using a portion of BTC as buy walls at the supply price, and the remainder to buy orders on market.

If this is agreeable, I'll write up proposals today in document form, and encourage others to do the same. Then we meet as a group, discuss, and agree a path forward.

If not agreeable, we just continue as currently, which doesn't seem good for any of us.

[mmihai1978]

Proposal

I'd like to cancel this week Insanity Sunday, and instead call a meeting in freenode from 18:00-00:00 UTC (nobody need be there for that long, it's more for me to update other people who are in different time zones).

The purpose of the meeting will be to propose and discuss changed game dynamics. I have two different proposals myself which I'd like to discuss in depth, one in particular which would incrementally lift the supply and market price, whilst using a portion of BTC as buy walls at the supply price, and the remainder to buy orders on market.

If this is agreeable, I'll write up proposals today in document form, and encourage others to do the same. Then we meet as a group, discuss, and agree a path forward.

If not agreeable, we just continue as currently, which doesn't seem good for any of us.

supported!

[rushthatspeaks]

also supported.

[Zeegeuze]

Not sure what to do... My money is bound in Wolf, and I was hoping to make at least some profit. Maybe you can play for an hour or something? Just to free some money? I'm affraid if we don't do so, the price will drop even lower!

Anyway: whatever can raise the price, is supported by me.

[mmihai1978]

there are at least 5 BTC worth of orders at 0.00094, so only a 6% loss. I would take it while the liquidity is still there!

[hammer1]

I think the dev has successfully chased many wolf owners away, we are tired of every coin going in the tank, and he kind of forced wolf down below his normal buy price. Now people just want out. If I could sell my 5500wolf for .00102 I'd be gone too.

I'd love to be able to put my finger on what it was, from my side here's what happened over a few weeks:

• week one: fewer players with orders spread out, entailed buy price went very high
• week two: more players with orders less spread out, entailed buy price went up a little
• week three+: roughly the same amount of players, but sell orders very tightly bunched

each week I've been left with a simple choice:

(a) throw all the btc at the order book in one go, this doesn't move the price noticeable as all sell orders are so tightly bunched, I did it one week to much discontent.
(b) trade actively in a small spread, this doesn't move price noticeable but does allow active traders to make a profit in whichever currency, the down side is that it doesn't lift the price / value of the coin, and it doesn't encourage anybody new on board.

Ultimately, each week there's a huge wall of sell orders which the BTC pot at any level can't clear. Fifty traders all trying to make a small profit in BTC just doesn't work mathematically, and this shows each week.

I've honestly been very surprised by the bunching of orders, and in some cases the loss taking.. it doesn't make much sense to me.

Simply, if there was a spread out order book, each week I'd throw the BTC pot at it and the price would rise significantly - but rather many of those buying wolf force the price to be as close to supply price as possible, and it puts me in a position of being responsible for no-rise, even though there's no action I can take to counteract it. I've tried each week to make spreads and lift price any way I can, people just keep bidding lower than each other.

Every week roughly 80% of all wolf on market is offered within 10% of the supply price, the remainder after it. Or put another way, if the pot was 150 btc one week (with a random 50 btc thrown in), the first 120 BTC would lift the price by ~10%, and the remaining 30 BTC would lift the price by 90-500%.

If somebody who consistently placed the lowest order, or even orders within the first 50 btc worth, could elaborate on why, I'd be really interested to know the logic behind it. I've seen it on other coins and I'd often assumed it was miners or coin creators doing this, but now that I know it's traders doing it with coins they've bought for a set price, I'm a bit at a loss to know why (and it impacts us all massively outside of wolf in the other coins we collectively hold).

Because no one wants to be a bagholder. And when just one person sets their order low, most people follow. Because when the rebuy price every week is the same, it makes no sense to be left holding any wolf that you can sell at any point above .001. I think the main flaw in the game was the consistent rebuy price. Each week the rebuy price should have been set at perhaps the average of the sells.

[Zeegeuze]

there are at least 5 BTC worth of orders at 0.00094, so only a 6% loss. I would take it while the liquidity is still there!

Just bought some at that price ;-). Hoping to have 6-8% profit on that one without any risk!

[Philll90]

Not sure what to do... My money is bound in Wolf, and I was hoping to make at least some profit. Maybe you can play for an hour or something? Just to free some money? I'm affraid if we don't do so, the price will drop even lower!

Anyway: whatever can raise the price, is supported by me.

+1

Yes, if this sunday will be canceled the price next week will drop much lower. The most important thing to keep this coin alive is to make the insanitysunday. Otherwise the pot next week won't also get filled because of the price drop and the next weeks will be the same.

So dev, if you have any emergency plan, investors or supporters left, who could increase the pot for this week, now it's the time to activate them! Otherwise the future of this coin won't be very good.

Other suggestion:
You set the price for this week and the next weeks to 0.0009 instead of 0.001 so the dump will be avoided to at least 0.0009 and you can be sure that the pot will be filled again. So maybe this weeks pot get filled or at least the next weeks pot. I think this is the only way to ensure that the pot get filled and avoid a huge dump.

[hammer1]

I agree, if this week's sunday is canceled it will not bode well for the coin, unless you're planning a full re-launch. I have 10K+ wolf left and I'm honestly starting to get a bit nervous.

[mmihai1978]

there's still 0.6 BTC on the market at 0.00094 on the buy side.

[hammer1]

there's still 0.6 BTC on the market at 0.00094 on the buy side.

actually it's at .00091, mostly.

[InsanityDev]

Not sure what to do... My money is bound in Wolf, and I was hoping to make at least some profit. Maybe you can play for an hour or something? Just to free some money? I'm affraid if we don't do so, the price will drop even lower!

Anyway: whatever can raise the price, is supported by me.

+1

Yes, if this sunday will be canceled the price next week will drop much lower. The most important thing to keep this coin alive is to make the insanitysunday. Otherwise the pot next week won't also get filled because of the price drop and the next weeks will be the same.

So dev, if you have any emergency plan, investors or supporters left, who could increase the pot for this week, now it's the time to activate them! Otherwise the future of this coin won't be very good.

Other suggestion:
You set the price for this week and the next weeks to 0.0009 instead of 0.001 so the dump will be avoided to at least 0.0009 and you can be sure that the pot will be filled again. So maybe this weeks pot get filled or at least the next weeks pot. I think this is the only way to ensure that the pot get filled and avoid a huge dump.

We can discuss all of this tomorrow, I've considered the 0.0009 issue and have taken account of it in the proposal I'll put forward

ps: consider 0.0009 as a short term interim base, wouldn't go selling any cheaper than that. Proposal will create a rolling game where market is active all week.

[hammer1]

So now all our WOLF holdings have been devalued by 10%? Not sure how I feel about that.