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Author Topic: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain  (Read 41770 times)
othell_rogue
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August 27, 2021, 06:59:10 PM
 #2121

I just cant bealive its so cheap.

Well believe it... It will stay this cheap for a long time imo if the things won't change. I don't want to spread fud but, that's the reality.
And the reality is that the price is the same since late 2019 i know because I'm in Idena and mining since the epoch was 3 days back in 2019 and the price was ~$0.1, and its been only gone up 3x as ATH to near $0.3.
Here are the 2 reasons I personally see why the price tanked for so long and nothing will change, unless something will change:
 - 1. Inflation. Near 20 millions (18.9M if my memory serves - like Dash&Monero total supply) inflation per year is a lot... Let's think about it: in 5 years from now, circulating supply will be 3 times more than it is now and from an investor perspective this is a lot.
 - 2. Reward for miners is very low, and many leave (selling their coins), new one come, old ones leave... is a cycle, I can understand but on Idena is very aggresive. There is very little money to be made as miner (6 coins per block / 8000+ miners => ~3.2 coins / day / miner). I know makes no sense, I want more coins for miners and I want the inflation reduced. No. I think reducing the number of miners is the way.

Again this is my pure opinion about Idena. I may be wrong, I may not.

Peace!


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August 27, 2021, 09:31:52 PM
 #2122

Uh, when I joined, validations were 5 days apart, there were no exchanges so DNA, yes DNA, traded OTC in the discord for 125 sats which was $0,01 at that time. So $0,01 to $0,30 that was 30x.
But I think that this is still early on. I'm interested in ads and how will they drive additional burning of iDNA and how will that reflect on future price.

othell_rogue
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August 28, 2021, 03:27:39 AM
 #2123

Uh, when I joined, validations were 5 days apart, there were no exchanges so DNA, yes DNA, traded OTC in the discord for 125 sats which was $0,01 at that time. So $0,01 to $0,30 that was 30x.
But I think that this is still early on. I'm interested in ads and how will they drive additional burning of iDNA and how will that reflect on future price.

3 days, 5 days.. you got the point (I know that it was very short since at the time was pissing me off the constant validations Tongue )

As for the price, I was talking at what price had started, not at what price went after a while ...

36 million premine to 0.1$ price at this moment(i asked to buy from team and they offer me DNA to 0.1$) ...

Anyways, I'm o hodler, so I hope I am wrong. Wink

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Tytanowy Janusz
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August 28, 2021, 07:08:27 AM
Last edit: August 28, 2021, 07:54:37 AM by Tytanowy Janusz
 #2124

Anyways, I'm o hodler, so I hope I am wrong. Wink

Yes you are wrong Smiley

- 1. Inflation. Near 20 millions (18.9M if my memory serves - like Dash&Monero total supply) inflation per year is a lot... Let's think about it: in 5 years from now, circulating supply will be 3 times more than it is now and from an investor perspective this is a lot.

Inflation presented in number of coins is useless. You should always devide it by number of coins in circulation.

51,840 coins per day = 18,9 mln coins per year - here you are correct

Circulating Supply 47,718,592.04 IDNA

Inflation for next year - 39% - yea that big but idena is 2 year old. Inflation will go down with every year because number of coins in circulation will go up. In 5 years from now (7 year old coin) inflation will drop to 13%. (in fact much lower because of burns - ~100k each epoch and expected burns in future from ads)

Bitcoin while being 2 year old had inflation around 50%, 7 year old bitcoin has inflation around 10%. Current CAKE inflation is around 200% (150% if you consider that some of newly minted coins are burned).

So inflation is not the case that IDNA is only 5 mln $ coin.

- 2. Reward for miners is very low, and many leave (selling their coins), new one come, old ones leave... is a cycle, I can understand but on Idena is very aggresive. There is very little money to be made as miner (6 coins per block / 8000+ miners => ~3.2 coins / day / miner). I know makes no sense, I want more coins for miners and I want the inflation reduced. No. I think reducing the number of miners is the way.

Rewards are low because price is low. Not because miners should get more coins becasue more coins = bigger inflation = even lower price = even lower rewards. So in this point you state that price is low because price is low.

So p1 and p2 contradict each other. You cant lower inflation in the same time make higher reward.

But in the end of the day the only sensible conclusion from point 2 is that ... price is low and 5 mln $ for innovative coin with 8000 nodes is insane.

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othell_rogue
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August 28, 2021, 02:39:31 PM
 #2125


Rewards are low because price is low. Not because miners should get more coins becasue more coins = bigger inflation = even lower price = even lower rewards. So in this point you state that price is low because price is low.

So p1 and p2 contradict each other. You cant lower inflation in the same time make higher reward.

But in the end of the day the only sensible conclusion from point 2 is that ... price is low and 5 mln $ for innovative coin with 8000 nodes is insane.

As I've stated in the first place at p2, I know it contradicts, that's why I've suggested that the miners number needs to get lower, not inflation higher. Tongue

Time will tell if I am wrong or not...

Cheers!

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Tytanowy Janusz
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August 28, 2021, 02:48:32 PM
Last edit: August 28, 2021, 03:18:45 PM by Tytanowy Janusz
 #2126

As I've stated in the first place at p2, I know it contradicts, that's why I've suggested that the miners number needs to get lower, not inflation higher. Tongue

So you are saying here that lower number of nodes will be better for IDNA price? Thats the oposit of what logic say. Lower amount of nodes = less secured network (creating centralized 100 node farm and attack network is easy, creating 100 000 centralized node farm is impossible). The whole point of idena is having as much nodes as it is possible to attract advertisers, to be faster and cheaper (with sharding) and many many more. First time I hear that destroying coin fundamentals (forcing nodes to quit to lower nodes amount) will benefit the price.

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othell_rogue
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August 29, 2021, 05:29:43 AM
 #2127

As I've stated in the first place at p2, I know it contradicts, that's why I've suggested that the miners number needs to get lower, not inflation higher. Tongue

So you are saying here that lower number of nodes will be better for IDNA price? Thats the oposit of what logic say. Lower amount of nodes = less secured network (creating centralized 100 node farm and attack network is easy, creating 100 000 centralized node farm is impossible). The whole point of idena is having as much nodes as it is possible to attract advertisers, to be faster and cheaper (with sharding) and many many more. First time I hear that destroying coin fundamentals (forcing nodes to quit to lower nodes amount) will benefit the price.

I agree about the nodes (more is better), but not all nodes should be miners imo. If all nodes are miners, how can you stop coin dump from let's say 100K nodes (from your example)? Let's assume 50% are selling, 50% are holders, that's a lot of coins reaching the market.

I think a mechanism can be done, to reward more the holders and less the dumpers. This can be achieved through different ways, For example, if an identity kill itself to get the stake out should get less coins (this can be done easy using the identity age) and / or if a node-miner (since on Idena is the same thing) get's out more than 25% of the wallet, should have the reward decreased, maybe introducing a minimum DNA amount to join the mining pool will help the price and will also separate miners from nodes (like some sort of masternodes), if you like.

Regarding the coin age, can be done a tier and nodes can get increasing rewards with age, stimulating nodes to not leave the network, miss validation or kill the identity. BTW, anyone knows what is the point of identity age right now?

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August 29, 2021, 06:07:01 AM
 #2128

I agree about the nodes (more is better), but not all nodes should be miners imo. If all nodes are miners, how can you stop coin dump from let's say 100K nodes (from your example)? Let's assume 50% are selling, 50% are holders, that's a lot of coins reaching the market.

It's already like that. Older nodes gets more coins from validation. Also gets coins from making flips (0 epoch node don't do flips for first validation and can do less flips for first few epochs), do not have an option to invite someone and get invitation rewards before epoch 5?. so person who is killing his node each epoch is mining like 2 times less than 5 epoch old account thanks to validation rewards. 5 epoch old account is a 100 day hodler... that super long comparing to average in crypto.

About coins outside of stake - you cant block people from spending their coins its not what its all about ... all you will get is making new nodes enter the network harder = slower network grow = lower fundamentals. You need to build use-cases that will burn coins (like ADS network that should be done in this year) and other activities. You need to make access to idena as easy as possible. Otherwise you will make all this dumpers to join farms, because farms will pay them after each epoch from coins dumped from older nodes while holding "dumper" node coins till "full node maturation day" to dump without penalty.

Its not tokenomics what makes idena to be locked in super low cap coins range. Its lack of marketing and big exchange. Not surprising. Before validation sharding price explosion is dangerous.

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September 11, 2021, 08:42:49 AM
Merited by Tytanowy Janusz (2)
 #2129

Let me add my 2 cents to your conversation.

Any coin needs quick and constant growth of its metrics (not price!) in order to draw attention of investors - smart people with some money. And only after this attention is drawn buy orders start to grow. Most of people behave some kind of opposite to investors - they see price pumps and then start to pay their attention to that asset and even buy it hoping of further growth. This is a losing strategy for most of the people besides maybe small portion of really smart traders.

So, the main thought here is that you need to have some parameter or characteristic of your blockchain which is rapidly growing and outperforming other rivals. For Idena these parameter are number of unique users (identities) and full nodes number. An interesting thing is that in idena each identity automatically implies miner. So every user which takes part in validations automatically gets his small reward. This is mind boggling property in terms of potential user base size. Besides, these consecutive validations are very interesting and entertaining events on their own, they seem like online multiplayer game or some kind of smart mob event. So validations naturally draw people's attention without any guaranteed rewards. People join the network just for fun, regardless to its current market capitalization, emission, price, etc.

I bought Idena at average price of $0.04 in the beginning of 2020. At that time the network did grow every epoch exponentially and I was sure that made a right decision of buying it. But then some technical and scaling issues started to appear. People could not connect the network right before validations and thence their identities were kicked out and then killed (I mean 'suspended -> zombied -> killed' cycle). So the growth started to decline of even go back. For now I think it is obvious that Idena need sharding in order to continue its growth.

So the team recently has announced 27th hardfork which includes long awaited sharding:
https://medium.com/idena/idena-hard-fork-announcement-validation-sharding-ca910bac3599

I hope that this technolodgy will help Idena in terms of scaling. And when (and if) that happens we will see investors putting their money in Idena massively.

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..I  D  E  N  A..
   
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Join the mining of the first human-centric
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D O W N L O A D

Idena node

   
   
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    .REQUEST INVITATION.
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September 11, 2021, 09:18:19 AM
 #2130

Buy some after every era, without looking at the price, here's what I did Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
Tytanowy Janusz
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September 11, 2021, 04:46:16 PM
 #2131

People could not connect the network right before validations and thence their identities were kicked out and then killed (I mean 'suspended -> zombied -> killed' cycle). So the growth started to decline of even go back. For now I think it is obvious that Idena need sharding in order to continue its growth.

I agree with majority of your post. The only thing is that network was growing exponential because mining reavenues were huge (we pumped 6x very fast). Its not the validation problems that stopped network from growing. It was price dump. Idena dumped 60% in 12 days. so if you were able to mine 500$ per month and people were buying invitations and yet no one was giving them away because everyone was spamming all friends and family memebers to join the network. Than price dumped, mining rewards too and people give up. At least with persuading all cousins, aunts and uncles at family dinners to join.

So the team recently has announced 27th hardfork which includes long awaited sharding:
https://medium.com/idena/idena-hard-fork-announcement-validation-sharding-ca910bac3599

I hope that this technolodgy will help Idena in terms of scaling. And when (and if) that happens we will see investors putting their money in Idena massively.

Yea. Its the biggest event since ... first epoch. Now we are ready for going wild.

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September 13, 2021, 04:17:38 PM
Last edit: September 14, 2021, 10:28:45 AM by realRioda
Merited by Tytanowy Janusz (2), vv181 (1)
 #2132

Talking about eco friendly mining and low power PC's that can support running Idena node, in Discord, we ended up with Comunity dev @bus running node + web app on his mobile phone. Full node sync lasted 90 minutes! And what's even sillier, he succeeded on running node on his Galaxy Watch Cheesy

Node + Web App on mobile phone


Node on Galaxy Watch

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September 14, 2021, 11:06:40 PM
 #2133

Now you can give your candidate an invitation code and tell him to try out Test Validation using link when he gets in Web App My Idena page

After he finishes it, he can show you his certificate Smiley
If he does not show it, you can terminate invitation and repeat the process


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September 15, 2021, 08:50:30 AM
 #2134

Now you can give your candidate an invitation code and tell him to try out Test Validation using link when he gets in Web App My Idena page

After he finishes it, he can show you his certificate Smiley
If he does not show it, you can terminate invitation and repeat the process


This is good and will try this one when I have an invitation to give so the inviter will not have wasted the invitation, glad that I did not go through I got my invitation on the first request and perfected the validation, hopefully, I can perfect my second validation.

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September 16, 2021, 04:06:38 PM
Last edit: September 17, 2021, 05:25:08 PM by realRioda
 #2135

Everyone who is running their own shared node, this can be usefull for troubleshooting Web App validation

https://github.com/idena-network/idena-web/discussions/123

Join in on the discussion so we can make troubleshooting easier for all.

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September 17, 2021, 12:33:17 PM
Merited by realRioda (2)
 #2136

Thanks to the help of a good friend, I was able to put together this simple guide on how to run an Idena node on a Raspberry Pi.

Hope it helps!


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September 17, 2021, 10:23:13 PM
 #2137

Guys, I have found some great tool to test your internet connection. Not speed, but router/connection capability.

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest?httpsok=0

If your connection is graded A or B it is great and you can run your node and Desktop App for validation.

If it's graded below, maybe you are on wifi, try lan cable, if it still sucks, you MUST use Web App for validation.

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September 21, 2021, 11:32:26 PM
 #2138

Guys, I have found some great tool to test your internet connection. Not speed, but router/connection capability.

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest?httpsok=0

If your connection is graded A or B it is great and you can run your node and Desktop App for validation.

If it's graded below, maybe you are on wifi, try lan cable, if it still sucks, you MUST use Web App for validation.

A great tool I am graded b here have bookmarked this and will use it hours before the validation, I thought I failed on last night validation I waited for hours for the validation results, I have to get a sleep and wait the next day and got up with a perfect validation and still have a 100% grade.

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September 23, 2021, 07:15:39 PM
 #2139

Guys, I have found some great tool to test your internet connection. Not speed, but router/connection capability.

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest?httpsok=0

If your connection is graded A or B it is great and you can run your node and Desktop App for validation.

If it's graded below, maybe you are on wifi, try lan cable, if it still sucks, you MUST use Web App for validation.

A great tool I am graded b here have bookmarked this and will use it hours before the validation, I thought I failed on last night validation I waited for hours for the validation results, I have to get a sleep and wait the next day and got up with a perfect validation and still have a 100% grade.

Learn how to talk first then proceed to opening ur mouth. Thus far I could only understand incomprehensive dronning and railing on random stuff. Alright. Since Im here Im gonna light ur path, guys. I have been following Idena a couple years now and formed impartial opinion about it. My take is, we need something to allow an average customer on the block to verify their identity using internet DNS system. That can be done by binding ur name, credentials etc. to IPV6 address. Thoughts?
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September 23, 2021, 09:22:28 PM
 #2140

My take is, we need something to allow an average customer on the block to verify their identity using internet DNS system. That can be done by binding ur name, credentials etc. to IPV6 address. Thoughts?

Big part of what makes Idena great in my opinion is verification without any form of KYC. Also, there is other project which is maybe closer to what you are proposing with IP's, nyzo.io

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