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Author Topic: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain  (Read 2086 times)
AndrewIdena
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October 22, 2019, 05:07:25 AM
Last edit: October 24, 2019, 08:51:06 AM by AndrewIdena
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 #1

There is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain. No money for stake or equipment needed, just an average laptop.
You can easily join mining of the first human-centric cryptocurrency at idena.io and share your opinion.

Where to start?
1. Visit the website idena.io to learn more about Idena.
2. Download and install the Idena Node and Idena Client executable files at  https://idena.io/?view=download or build them from source at https://github.com/idena-network.
3. Subscribe to the Idena Announcements channel at https://t.me/IdenaAnnouncements to follow updates.
4. Request an invitation code here or
in the Idena Telegram chat at https://t.me/IdenaNetworkPublic or
in the Discord: https://discord.gg/egaWtsf
5. Make sure your node is synchronized, and activate the invitation code. Check your identity status; it should be "Candidate". The invitation can not be activated in last 5 minutes before the validation.
6. Learn how to solve flips: read the article in our blog  https://medium.com/idena/how-to-prove-your-identity-anonymously-919bdfe5249a and test yourself https://flips.idena.io/?pass=idena.io

How to get validated?
1. Check the next validation time in the Idena app or at the website.
2. Your node must be fully synchronized before the session starts.
3. Your computer time must be synchronized with the internet time.
4. Solve the flips during the validation session. Be agile. The first 5 flips must be submitted in less than 2 minutes.

What's next?
1. Once your identity is validated, keep your node up and running in order to mine coins.
2. Learn how to create flips. Don't forget to create three fips  before the next validation in advance. Schedule your next validation.
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October 22, 2019, 05:33:59 AM
 #2

There is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain. No money for stake or equipment needed, just an average laptop.
You can easily join mining of the first human-centric cryptocurrency at idena.io and share your opinion.

Are you part of the team? seeing your username ends with idena. what makes it better for proof-of-person than the current pow and pos? please share more details and your own experience about your proof-of-person blockchain.

 
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October 22, 2019, 05:53:09 AM
 #3

I have read this new proof of person on https://idena.io/, to put it simply we need to do a puzzle or captcha if we want to work as a node.
every single node is equivalent to one person, but this is tedious work for human to keep solving the puzzle. I do not think this new consensus will work out, this is not effective and efficient.

 
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October 23, 2019, 02:36:55 PM
Last edit: October 29, 2019, 06:55:22 PM by mprep
 #4

There is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain. No money for stake or equipment needed, just an average laptop.
You can easily join mining of the first human-centric cryptocurrency at idena.io and share your opinion.

Are you part of the team? seeing your username ends with idena. what makes it better for proof-of-person than the current pow and pos? please share more details and your own experience about your proof-of-person blockchain.

Yes, I contribute to the project.
Why not pow and pos? They both are based on capital. Larger players enjoy economy of scale and adopt anti-competitive practices. Smaller players vanish.

Is there any alternative basis that is not as concentrated as capital? It seems that human personhood is the most evenly distributed and scarce resource on Earth.



I have read this new proof of person on https://idena.io/, to put it simply we need to do a puzzle or captcha if we want to work as a node.
every single node is equivalent to one person, but this is tedious work for human to keep solving the puzzle. I do not think this new consensus will work out, this is not effective and efficient.

The validations will be less often as the network grows. Will validating once in 3 month be too much work?
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October 23, 2019, 03:05:34 PM
 #5

There is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain. No money for stake or equipment needed, just an average laptop.
You can easily join mining of the first human-centric cryptocurrency at idena.io and share your opinion.

It seems like a very unique idea. But what's the utility of this blockchain in real world?

Also I understand a turing code needs to be solved to work as a node in idena network and I also understand that the frequency of solving turing code will reduce as the network grows. What's the current frequency?

Also i see that it is not completely decentralized. Because if I am inviting someone, I will retain the full right to expel that person from the network. Any specific reason for that?

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October 23, 2019, 03:07:10 PM
 #6

I have read this new proof of person on https://idena.io/, to put it simply we need to do a puzzle or captcha if we want to work as a node.
every single node is equivalent to one person, but this is tedious work for human to keep solving the puzzle. I do not think this new consensus will work out, this is not effective and efficient.

The validations will be less often as the network grows. Will validating once in 3 month be too much work?

Well, you did not mention it on the website that was why I said solving the puzzle or captcha is tedious work.
You should have at least said about validating once every 3 months on the website, and I still do not understand the function of the laptop in the minting process.
Quote
All validated participants are encouraged to do useful work for the network (hosting their nodes, creating and solving flips, inviting new users, and so on).
did not explain the process of minting using the hardware.

 
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October 23, 2019, 03:49:06 PM
Last edit: October 29, 2019, 06:56:25 PM by mprep
 #7

There is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain. No money for stake or equipment needed, just an average laptop.
You can easily join mining of the first human-centric cryptocurrency at idena.io and share your opinion.

It seems like a very unique idea. But what's the utility of this blockchain in real world?

Also I understand a turing code needs to be solved to work as a node in idena network and I also understand that the frequency of solving turing code will reduce as the network grows. What's the current frequency?

Also i see that it is not completely decentralized. Because if I am inviting someone, I will retain the full right to expel that person from the network. Any specific reason for that?

Idena is a strong bot protection: one person can not have multiple accounts, because the validation session starts at the same time globally. Useful for many projects that cannot be realized otherwise: true anonymous authentication, privacy-preserving Sybil-protected governance and fair voting for online communities and DAOs, global universal basic income initiatives, Sybil-protected marketing.

The current validation frequency is once in 4 days.

The person who invites you can terminate your identity only before your status is "Verfied", after the third validation it is no longer possible. This is done to prevent participants from buying and selling invitations and to encourage healthy network growth. When you are invited by your friend you will not be expelled.



Quote
Well, you did not mention it on the website that was why I said solving the puzzle or captcha is tedious work.
You should have at least said about validating once every 3 months on the website, and I still do not understand the function of the laptop in the minting process.

We mention that in the FAQ section:
https://idena.io/?view=faq#faq-validation-1

Quote
did not explain the process of minting using the hardware.

You need to run the node on your computer or laptop in order to produce blocks and vote for the block proposals.
https://idena.io/?view=technology
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October 23, 2019, 04:00:29 PM
 #8

What does it mean in general? For POS coins you need to hold an amount of tokens to be eligible for rewards, for POW coins, you need to have a mining software and what do you mean by human mining from your laptop?

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October 23, 2019, 04:08:15 PM
 #9

What does it mean in general? For POS coins you need to hold an amount of tokens to be eligible for rewards, for POW coins, you need to have a mining software and what do you mean by human mining from your laptop?

ITs said above that person can be a node by solving captcha. Interesting concept actually but then the decentralization is going to be questioned. It doesn't really matter if a person has multiple accounts as long as this other account can be a node still. When someone has the right to exclude you, its not going to look good.

Identity validation means KYC?

 
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October 23, 2019, 04:24:50 PM
Last edit: October 29, 2019, 06:56:44 PM by mprep
 #10

What does it mean in general? For POS coins you need to hold an amount of tokens to be eligible for rewards, for POW coins, you need to have a mining software and what do you mean by human mining from your laptop?

In order to mine, you have to prove you are a unique human during the validation session. Once your address is validated as a unique human, you can mine coins during the subsequent epoch. Mining requres neither stake nor mining hardware. It's based on the BFT consensus.



Quote

ITs said above that person can be a node by solving captcha. Interesting concept actually but then the decentralization is going to be questioned. It doesn't really matter if a person has multiple accounts as long as this other account can be a node still. When someone has the right to exclude you, its not going to look good.

Identity validation means KYC?

No KYC. No personal data. No trusted verifiers. Proof of person is based on the Turing test running at the same time for all participants in the network.

Invitations are needed to minimize the probability of a Sybil attack.
https://idena.io/?view=invitation#

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October 23, 2019, 06:07:02 PM
 #11

I've tried to look for how you are preventing duplicate accounts and answers didn't make sense to me, but as you said in here:

Proof of person is based on the Turing test running at the same time for all participants in the network.

I feel stupid for not getting this but i have to ask. Does this mean that every user needs to be online solving the test at the same time in order to participate? It's the only semi-reasonable answer i am getting from this, even though it doesn't sound plausible or even reasonable. Please tell be i have been mistaken.

 
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October 23, 2019, 09:31:26 PM
 #12

I feel stupid for not getting this but i have to ask. Does this mean that every user needs to be online solving the test at the same time in order to participate? It's the only semi-reasonable answer i am getting from this, even though it doesn't sound plausible or even reasonable. Please tell be i have been mistaken.

It’s correct though might seem weird. Every Idena user on a planet needs to appear online at the same time and solve 5 flips in less than 2 minutes in order to prove their uniqueness. Consider it as a global online party.
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October 23, 2019, 09:55:53 PM
 #13


Invitations are needed to minimize the probability of a Sybil attack.
https://idena.io/?view=invitation#



this was one of the things that i liked
ive been happy to run a node for a week or two here so far, seems interesting idea
give this some time i will, see how it goes Smiley

 
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October 24, 2019, 05:31:07 AM
 #14

What does it mean in general? For POS coins you need to hold an amount of tokens to be eligible for rewards, for POW coins, you need to have a mining software and what do you mean by human mining from your laptop?

In order to mine, you have to prove you are a unique human during the validation session. Once your address is validated as a unique human, you can mine coins during the subsequent epoch. Mining requres neither stake nor mining hardware. It's based on the BFT consensus.
I just feel curious what should be the main role of your token if you are not using your own consensus that puts human verification at the top of the things?

These days so many projects are forgetting to put the token as the main role of platforms. In POS, the owner of the token gets more benefits because it can use its token to earn even more.

When i have minted your coin and passed the validation session and i have proven if im a unique human and then after that i owned some coins and have you planned something good with your coin?

The utility should be on the top of the feature that must available on your token. Your consensus doesn't mean a lot if you are not putting utility usage for your token, right?  

 
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October 24, 2019, 06:23:44 AM
Last edit: October 24, 2019, 06:34:24 AM by DaMut
 #15

Quote
Well, you did not mention it on the website that was why I said solving the puzzle or captcha is tedious work.
You should have at least said about validating once every 3 months on the website, and I still do not understand the function of the laptop in the minting process.

We mention that in the FAQ section:
https://idena.io/?view=faq#faq-validation-1


I did not find the 3 months of validation on FAQ, but I found this
Quote
The short validation session has a very limited time frame, less than two minutes, and consists of five flips, each of which is received only by 1–4 participants in the network (depending on the network size). This session’s task is conducting a Turing test: telling humans from AI.

The long flip qualification session lasts 30 minutes and consists of 25-30 flips, each of which is received by a larger number of network participants (depending on the network size). This session enables the network to achieve a consensus on flip quality and the right answer to a flip.
See I was not wrong before, we need to work as a captcha solver in order to get validated, you should have made a full post of explanation about this project.
I am interested in becoming a node but the process confuses me, there is no clear minimum required hardware needed to run the node and there is no clear information about validation time.
You can not just say, you only need a laptop to work with it. There should be a requirement needed like, x Gb of ram or VGA or etc.

 
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October 24, 2019, 08:39:34 AM
Last edit: October 29, 2019, 06:57:13 PM by mprep
 #16

Quote
I just feel curious what should be the main role of your token if you are not using your own consensus that puts human verification at the top of the things?

These days so many projects are forgetting to put the token as the main role of platforms. In POS, the owner of the token gets more benefits because it can use its token to earn even more.

When i have minted your coin and passed the validation session and i have proven if im a unique human and then after that i owned some coins and have you planned something good with your coin?

The utility should be on the top of the feature that must available on your token. Your consensus doesn't mean a lot if you are not putting utility usage for your token, right? 


Idena blockchain formalizes people so there might be use cases that we can not anticipate yet. E.g. onchain marketing: Idena participants voluntarily agree to consume ads published by a valid address which burns coins. Then advertisers have to compete for burning more coins in order to reach a certain group of users attention. Burnt coins are removed from the total supply. This  means that all newly mined coins equaly distributed amoung the variety of people can be sold to advertisers who will have shortage of coins.



Quote
See I was not wrong before, we need to work as a captcha solver in order to get validated, you should have made a full post of explanation about this project.
I am interested in becoming a node but the process confuses me, there is no clear minimum required hardware needed to run the node and there is no clear information about validation time.
You can not just say, you only need a laptop to work with it. There should be a requirement needed like, x Gb of ram or VGA or etc.

I have edited the initial post, now it should be clearer. The next validation time is a function of the network size, it is determined by the algorithm when the validation process is over and the number of valdated participants are known. The next validation time is always displayed on the main website and app page. By the way, today is the validation day.
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October 24, 2019, 08:52:19 AM
 #17

Quote
See I was not wrong before, we need to work as a captcha solver in order to get validated, you should have made a full post of explanation about this project.
I am interested in becoming a node but the process confuses me, there is no clear minimum required hardware needed to run the node and there is no clear information about validation time.
You can not just say, you only need a laptop to work with it. There should be a requirement needed like, x Gb of ram or VGA or etc.

I have edited the initial post, now it should be clearer. The next validation time is a function of the network size, it is determined by the algorithm when the validation process is over and the number of valdated participants are known. The next validation time is always displayed on the main website and app page. By the way, today is the validation day.

Do you have any idea how many nodes are currently running right now? and what is the basic hardware requirement running the node?
I have a PC right now with 8 Gb ram and I am using this computer for 12 hours/day, I would like to run one of the nodes if it is possible using my personal computer.

 
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October 24, 2019, 09:26:18 AM
 #18


Do you have any idea how many nodes are currently running right now?


There are 58 mining nodes running at the moment out of the total 75 validated addresses:
https://scan.idena.io/#miners


and what is the basic hardware requirement running the node?
I have a PC right now with 8 Gb ram and I am using this computer for 12 hours/day, I would like to run one of the nodes if it is possible using my personal computer.



That's fine for running the Idena node.

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October 24, 2019, 10:30:19 AM
 #19

I feel stupid for not getting this but i have to ask. Does this mean that every user needs to be online solving the test at the same time in order to participate? It's the only semi-reasonable answer i am getting from this, even though it doesn't sound plausible or even reasonable. Please tell be i have been mistaken.

It’s correct though might seem weird. Every Idena user on a planet needs to appear online at the same time and solve 5 flips in less than 2 minutes in order to prove their uniqueness. Consider it as a global online party.
A very original way to protect the network from fraudsters. If I understand correctly, the scammers will have to have one laptop for each account at the time of verification and several pairs of hands, depending on how many accounts they have registered. To organize such a very problematic, which makes your solution in the fight against multi-accounts very workable, I'm delighted.  

 
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October 24, 2019, 10:32:43 AM
 #20


Do you have any idea how many nodes are currently running right now?


There are 58 mining nodes running at the moment out of the total 75 validated addresses:
https://scan.idena.io/#miners


and what is the basic hardware requirement running the node?
I have a PC right now with 8 Gb ram and I am using this computer for 12 hours/day, I would like to run one of the nodes if it is possible using my personal computer.



That's fine for running the Idena node.



I have downloaded the wallet and running it on my computer.
this is not fine at all, my disk is running for 90%-95% when I am running the node. It makes my computer very slow, and hard to use.
I do not think it is possible to run the node on VPS too because my account will be suspended if I am running it on my VPS, it requires 90% of the disk to run the node.

 
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