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Author Topic: [BET] Trump or not Trump 2020, eddie13 vs suchmoon  (Read 10737 times)
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November 24, 2020, 08:57:19 PM
 #981

In regards to the Law Firms and such, I know that some are going to be under pressure due to representing Trump, though I don't think any clients that they care about are the ones that are angry. Everyone kinda knows that there is a good amount of money even in representing something that is total bullshit and isn't going to go anywhere. Maybe that's just my warped world view on things, but still.

Right. If there was an SC-worthy case, even a potentially losing one, you'd get high profile law firms lining up. Since when do lawyers get scared away by a little bit of bad publicity.

But these election cases were complete turdballs, plus the Trump campaign is broke and he has a long history of unpaid bills.

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November 24, 2020, 10:34:37 PM
 #982

Only evidence that they Mueller went after Trump directly with though was in regards to interference though, right? All of this sounds so long ago but it really wasn't, which is an insane thing for all of us to think about. Yes some Trump people were indicted, but there was no ability of the Mueller investigation to prove direct links to Trump in terms of his knowledge or direct approval of what was going on, right? Let me know if I'm misremembering or something here, not trying to change the story or anything, just curious.

That's the thing, it wasn't a 'trump investigation' that's just what Trump made it seem like.  It was an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, which included ties between the Trump campaign and Russia.  There was interference, and there were ties between the campaign and Russia.  It was not a witch hunt.

In the end, he did lay out several clear instances of obstruction that Trump would've likely been already charged with if he were not the sitting president - and left the door open for a few other charges.

"it is important to preserve evidence while memories are fresh and documents available"
-Mueller

Although he'll probably have a few 'get out of federal prison free' cards, I suspect Muellers findings will haunt Trump long after he leaves office.


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November 25, 2020, 12:01:15 AM
 #983

That's the thing, it wasn't a 'trump investigation' that's just what Trump made it seem like.  It was an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, which included ties between the Trump campaign and Russia.  There was interference, and there were ties between the campaign and Russia.  It was not a witch hunt.

In the end, he did lay out several clear instances of obstruction that Trump would've likely been already charged with if he were not the sitting president - and left the door open for a few other charges.

"it is important to preserve evidence while memories are fresh and documents available"
-Mueller

Although he'll probably have a few 'get out of federal prison free' cards, I suspect Muellers findings will haunt Trump long after he leaves office.


Mueller's job was to uncover "Russian interference" AND investigate Russian collusion to which you had idiots like Adam Schiff, an elected official, not some left wing retard on Twitter, going on CNN every night promising everyone that the walls were closing in and that the President of the United States would be thrown in prison for being a Russian spy.

But let's take a step back, the entire Russia bullshit was started on the Steele Dossier which essentially was Russian disinformation that had no basis of being true. But apparently, that's all it takes to get a FISA warrant sign off at the Obama DoJ.

Read here where the U.S. IG released a report detailing pages of "errors" on behalf of the FBI which he designates as "incompetence" and not political animus - https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/horowitz-report-steele-dossier-collusion-news-media-924944/

I guess it is a high bar to prove legitimate political animus as the basis for the investigation but I also refuse to believe any government officials that choose to engage in FISA abuse are acting in good faith. Just my opinion, perhaps you might disagree with me and agree with Horowitz because Horowitz also seems to claim there was no bias on behalf of the FBI. Again, I find this hard to believe.

We knew of Russian interference since 2016. It did not take a special prosecutor to uncover it. This was an investigation on Trump. Had there been no smoke about Russian collusion, Mueller wouldn't have been appointed. He was appointed after firing Comey, and Sally Yates has even said Comey went "rogue" in regards to how Comey handled the Michael Flynn situation - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sally-yates-comey-went-rogue-michael-flynn-senate-judiciary-committee/..So it's not like Trump was ever wrong for firing Comey in hindsight.


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November 25, 2020, 12:45:24 AM
 #984

Only evidence that they Mueller went after Trump directly with though was in regards to interference though, right? All of this sounds so long ago but it really wasn't, which is an insane thing for all of us to think about. Yes some Trump people were indicted, but there was no ability of the Mueller investigation to prove direct links to Trump in terms of his knowledge or direct approval of what was going on, right? Let me know if I'm misremembering or something here, not trying to change the story or anything, just curious.

That's the thing, it wasn't a 'trump investigation' that's just what Trump made it seem like.  It was an investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, which included ties between the Trump campaign and Russia.  There was interference, and there were ties between the campaign and Russia.  It was not a witch hunt.

In the end, he did lay out several clear instances of obstruction that Trump would've likely been already charged with if he were not the sitting president - and left the door open for a few other charges.

"it is important to preserve evidence while memories are fresh and documents available"
-Mueller

Although he'll probably have a few 'get out of federal prison free' cards, I suspect Muellers findings will haunt Trump long after he leaves office.



I probably should've been more clear about what I was saying here.

When talking about the Mueller investigation I was talking about the direct links to Trump. I do understand what the full implications of the investigation and how it highlighted potential issues, and issues, that we had in our voting process and how easily manipulated people could be into supporting a particular candidate through fake news spreading online from Russia.

I am personally of the belief that a former President will never be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Maybe he'll have some legal issues, yes, but I don't think that he is going to be arrested or anything like that. I've heard some say this, and it irks me a bit cause he is still a former President.




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November 25, 2020, 12:55:57 AM
 #985

But let's take a step back, the entire Russia bullshit was started on the Steele Dossier which essentially was Russian disinformation that had no basis of being true. But apparently, that's all it takes to get a FISA warrant sign off at the Obama DoJ.

That IG report determined that the investigation was not started because of the Steele Dossier.  It was Papadapolous bragging to an Australian intelligence agent that the Trump campaign knew that Russia had dirt on Clinton and would be using it (Trump campaign should have went to the FBI themselves at that point).  In fact, when they became aware of the Steele dossier, the investigation was already under way, and Comey went personally to Trump Tower to tell Trump about it's existence.

Also, Carter Page was already under FBI investigation (like Paul Manafort) before the Trump campaign even existed.

We knew of Russian interference since 2016. It did not take a special prosecutor to uncover it.

Mueller uncovered exactly who did it and how - from the fake identities used to buy servers to the bitcoin transactions used to pay for them to the relationship between wikileaks and Russia.  The details Mueller was able to figure out are impressive, all while being obstructed at every turn by the President of the United States.  And that's only based on what's public.

The President of a Country obstructing an investigation into a foreign adversary interfering in the election that he had just won.  Think about that for a second.

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November 25, 2020, 03:16:20 AM
 #986


That IG report determined that the investigation was not started because of the Steele Dossier.  It was Papadapolous bragging to an Australian intelligence agent that the Trump campaign knew that Russia had dirt on Clinton and would be using it (Trump campaign should have went to the FBI themselves at that point).  In fact, when they became aware of the Steele dossier, the investigation was already under way, and Comey went personally to Trump Tower to tell Trump about it's existence.

Also, Carter Page was already under FBI investigation (like Paul Manafort) before the Trump campaign even existed.


FISA warrants were used to surveille Carter Page, and the basis of these FISA warrants was the Steele Dossier which were renewed multiple times. It doesn't matter if Page was under previous investigation. Doesn't mean you can surveille him and use oppo research that's Russian propaganda as the basis for the warrant.


Mueller uncovered exactly who did it and how - from the fake identities used to buy servers to the bitcoin transactions used to pay for them to the relationship between wikileaks and Russia.  The details Mueller was able to figure out are impressive, all while being obstructed at every turn by the President of the United States.  And that's only based on what's public.

The President of a Country obstructing an investigation into a foreign adversary interfering in the election that he had just won.  Think about that for a second.

I've got a bridge to sell you if you actually believe the laundry list of names was the extent of "Russian interference" or even the basis for Russian interference. Mueller compiled those names knowing he'd never get a conviction and knowing there would never be any sort of trial so he could point towards his list as if it justified his work and 30M of tax payer money. Russian interference in U.S. elections has been going on for decades according to ex-intel official James Clapper -- why would the U.S. wait to prosecute any entities involved and wait until the 2016 election? Especially if its been going on for decades?

Lot of talk about Russians interfering in the 2018 mid term elections. Why did democrats not call for a special prosecutor to investigate that? Well, other than the fact they won in 2018, but that's besides the point.

Russia presumably interfered in the 2020 election. Where are the names of those involved? Don't democrats care so much about Russian interference? Do you think Biden will call for his DoJ to investigate?

I'm glad obstruction is what you got from the Mueller report because what I got from the report is not a single person was indicted for Russian collusion/conspiracy/coordination. 3 years chasing a Russian collusion narrative only to turn up nothing and somehow you are surprised Trump wanted Mueller fired or that he resisted his investigation? Also, Trump had the authority to fire Mueller and did not do so. Quite the obstructionist.

I mean, if I had a couple of FBI goons investigating me texting each other about some insurance policy if I had won a Presidential election, I would be suspect too - https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-fbi-agents-account-insurance-policy-text-referred-to-russia-probe-1513624580

But I guess you still believe there was no political animus involved in the investigation so I'm not sure what else would convince you.

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November 26, 2020, 06:53:11 AM
 #987


That IG report determined that the investigation was not started because of the Steele Dossier.  It was Papadapolous bragging to an Australian intelligence agent that the Trump campaign knew that Russia had dirt on Clinton and would be using it (Trump campaign should have went to the FBI themselves at that point).  In fact, when they became aware of the Steele dossier, the investigation was already under way, and Comey went personally to Trump Tower to tell Trump about it's existence.

Also, Carter Page was already under FBI investigation (like Paul Manafort) before the Trump campaign even existed.


FISA warrants were used to surveille Carter Page, and the basis of these FISA warrants was the Steele Dossier which were renewed multiple times. It doesn't matter if Page was under previous investigation. Doesn't mean you can surveille him and use oppo research that's Russian propaganda as the basis for the warrant.


Mueller uncovered exactly who did it and how - from the fake identities used to buy servers to the bitcoin transactions used to pay for them to the relationship between wikileaks and Russia.  The details Mueller was able to figure out are impressive, all while being obstructed at every turn by the President of the United States.  And that's only based on what's public.

The President of a Country obstructing an investigation into a foreign adversary interfering in the election that he had just won.  Think about that for a second.

I've got a bridge to sell you if you actually believe the laundry list of names was the extent of "Russian interference" or even the basis for Russian interference. Mueller compiled those names knowing he'd never get a conviction and knowing there would never be any sort of trial so he could point towards his list as if it justified his work and 30M of tax payer money. Russian interference in U.S. elections has been going on for decades according to ex-intel official James Clapper -- why would the U.S. wait to prosecute any entities involved and wait until the 2016 election? Especially if its been going on for decades?

Lot of talk about Russians interfering in the 2018 mid term elections. Why did democrats not call for a special prosecutor to investigate that? Well, other than the fact they won in 2018, but that's besides the point.

Russia presumably interfered in the 2020 election. Where are the names of those involved? Don't democrats care so much about Russian interference? Do you think Biden will call for his DoJ to investigate?

I'm glad obstruction is what you got from the Mueller report because what I got from the report is not a single person was indicted for Russian collusion/conspiracy/coordination. 3 years chasing a Russian collusion narrative only to turn up nothing and somehow you are surprised Trump wanted Mueller fired or that he resisted his investigation? Also, Trump had the authority to fire Mueller and did not do so. Quite the obstructionist.

I mean, if I had a couple of FBI goons investigating me texting each other about some insurance policy if I had won a Presidential election, I would be suspect too - https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-fbi-agents-account-insurance-policy-text-referred-to-russia-probe-1513624580

But I guess you still believe there was no political animus involved in the investigation so I'm not sure what else would convince you.

I agree with parts of this.

One of my big issues with the whole Russia thing is that I think a lot of people misunderstand it. Some people actually think that Russia was able to hack into voter booths and change your votes or something along those lines, that's what 'Russian Interference' sounds like, as it's a big word with a lot behind it in peoples heads.

The thing is that it isn't that deep: Literally Russian interference is just the Russian government creating divide in the US by spending money on ads supporting particular candidates, running fake accounts online, and so on and so forth. Isn't that something that literally anyone could do? I understand the inherent difference because the people doing it this time around are the Kremlin, but still.

But I do also agree with the points about 2018 and 2020 -- What was so different then that Russia was unable to change the outcome of the election? If Republicans would have won would things have ended up being different in regards to calls for another investigation or would talks of that died down again?




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November 26, 2020, 07:30:59 AM
 #988

Small win for Trump - PA will delay certifying their election results, presumably due to voter anomalies - https://6abc.com/politics/judge-halts-further-vote-certification;-gov-wolf-appeals/8254952/

Doesn't matter too much as GA and AZ are a done deal. Biden doesn't need PA to win even if for some bizarre reason the entire election results were thrown out in that state.


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December 08, 2020, 11:17:38 PM
 #989

Now the real bet contract:
Code:
suchmoon's address: 18pTKHyCFyr5Gk3LHN4wKke1hUaT3wUnjb
eddie13's address: 1vvSrTFiQY7akwbsv3iYPPe9mR3DsEbff

suchmoon agrees to pay 0.1 BTC to eddie13 if Donald J Trump wins the 2020 US presidential election, and eddie13 agrees to pay 0.1 BTC to suchmoon if Donald J Trump does not win the 2020 US presidential election.

Decision logic:

Election result is considered decided by the Electoral College meeting. If the Electoral College elects Donald J Trump the president of the US following the 2020 US presidential election eddie13 wins the bet, in any other case suchmoon wins the bet except for the draw conditions listed below.

Conditions for a draw (neither side pays the other side):

    If there is no presidential election in 2020.
    If Donald J Trump is not on the ballot in at least 26 states.
    If the Electoral College doesn't meet by midnight January 31, 2021.

Additional terms:

    EC decision is final regardless of popular vote, pledged electors, unfaithful electors etc.
    No presidential election in 2020 (martial law, martians invading, etc) means a draw.
    Donald J Trump not running for any reason (primaried out, dead, impeached, etc) means a draw even if he wins via write-in.
    Any other candidate getting elected (democrat, republican, third party, etc) means suchmoon wins.
    If Donald J Trump is elected but doesn't get sworn in (dies, goes to prison, moves to Slovenia, etc) eddie13 wins.

Signed 2019-12-09

This thread will be officially 1 year old in a day or two. Even though the election is over (its over and has been for weeks) and suchmoon won, this is what we have to endure for 6 more weeks:

Quote
Dec. 8, 2020: Deadline for Resolving Election Disputes. All state recounts and court contests over presidential election results must be completed by this date...

Dec. 14, 2020: Meeting of the Electors. The electors meet in each state and cast their ballots for president and vice president. Each elector votes on his or her own ballot and signs it...

Dec. 23, 2020: Deadline for Receipt of Ballots. The electors' ballots from all states must be received by the president of the Senate by this date. There is no penalty for missing this deadline.

Jan. 6, 2021: Counting of the Electoral Ballots. The U.S. Congress meets in joint session to count the electoral votes.

Jan. 20, 2021: Inauguration Day.  The president-elect becomes the president of the United States.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/the-electoral-college.aspx

Wonder if the outcome of the Electoral College meeting will be known on Dec 14 or if we have to wait until Dec 23.





.
.




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December 08, 2020, 11:53:34 PM
 #990

Wonder if the outcome of the Electoral College meeting will be known on Dec 14 or if we have to wait until Dec 23.

Maybe the MAGA crowd will block I-83 to prevent the FedEx truck from delivering the ballots from Harrisburg to DC.

This whole thing is so far beyond stupid that there's bound to be all sorts of shit happening that I couldn't have possibly imagined a year ago.

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December 09, 2020, 02:25:40 AM
 #991

I see a possible issue:

Quote
If there is no presidential election in 2020.

If the election is not decided in 2020, does that mean it took place?

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December 09, 2020, 02:48:16 AM
 #992

If the election is not decided in 2020, does that mean it took place?

The election happened on Nov 3. It would take an act of Congress to move the date and the Congress didn't do that. And all states except Wisconsin have certified the results so it's over by any imaginable measure.

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December 09, 2020, 03:34:32 AM
 #993

^^^ But SCOTUS has already done the opposite.

All ballots after Nov. 3rd are NULL AND VOID

Today’s Situation Update covers the bombshells now getting catapulted into the election battle, with a legal analyst revealing that the U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled in 1997 (Foster v Love) that all ballots received after midnight of Election Day are null and void.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-12-08-situation-update-dec-8th-all-ballots-after-nov-3rd-are-null-and-void.html#

Cool

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Hydroxychloroquine is being used against Covid with great success >>> https://altcensored.com/watch?v=otRN0X6F81c.
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Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin. Thank you. >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz
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December 09, 2020, 03:37:30 AM
 #994

^^^ But SCOTUS has already done the opposite.

All ballots after Nov. 3rd are NULL AND VOID

Today’s Situation Update covers the bombshells now getting catapulted into the election battle, with a legal analyst revealing that the U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled in 1997 (Foster v Love) that all ballots received after midnight of Election Day are null and void.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-12-08-situation-update-dec-8th-all-ballots-after-nov-3rd-are-null-and-void.html#

Cool

god damn it!

I really wanted Biden to win.

Oh well.

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December 09, 2020, 03:40:39 AM
 #995

^^^ But SCOTUS has already done the opposite.

All ballots after Nov. 3rd are NULL AND VOID

Today’s Situation Update covers the bombshells now getting catapulted into the election battle, with a legal analyst revealing that the U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled in 1997 (Foster v Love) that all ballots received after midnight of Election Day are null and void.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-12-08-situation-update-dec-8th-all-ballots-after-nov-3rd-are-null-and-void.html#

Cool

There is a catch here. Although the postal ballots were overwhelmingly favoring Joe Biden, from what I have heard, the late arriving postal ballots were more favorable towards Donald Trump. At least in states such as Arizona, Trump held a considerable margin with these late arriving ballots. So I don't think that it is going to make any difference in the outcome. Anyway, the total number of these ballots may not exceed a couple of thousands max, per state.



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December 09, 2020, 03:45:03 AM
 #996

^^^ But SCOTUS has already done the opposite.

All ballots after Nov. 3rd are NULL AND VOID

Today’s Situation Update covers the bombshells now getting catapulted into the election battle, with a legal analyst revealing that the U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled in 1997 (Foster v Love) that all ballots received after midnight of Election Day are null and void.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-12-08-situation-update-dec-8th-all-ballots-after-nov-3rd-are-null-and-void.html#

Cool

There is a catch here. Although the postal ballots were overwhelmingly favoring Joe Biden, from what I have heard, the late arriving postal ballots were more favorable towards Donald Trump. At least in states such as Arizona, Trump held a considerable margin with these late arriving ballots. So I don't think that it is going to make any difference in the outcome. Anyway, the total number of these ballots may not exceed a couple of thousands max, per state.

Was Trump ahead at midnight or not?     Cool

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Masks are stupid. Watch the first 5 minutes >>> https://www.bitchute.com/video/rlWESmrijl8Q/.
Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin. Thank you. >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz
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December 09, 2020, 05:59:50 AM
Merited by Vod (1)
 #997

SCOTUS was brutaly terse on the Pennsylvania Kraken:

Loading...

https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/120820zr_bq7d.pdf

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December 09, 2020, 07:24:34 PM
 #998

^^^ But SCOTUS has already done the opposite.

All ballots after Nov. 3rd are NULL AND VOID

Today’s Situation Update covers the bombshells now getting catapulted into the election battle, with a legal analyst revealing that the U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled in 1997 (Foster v Love) that all ballots received after midnight of Election Day are null and void.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-12-08-situation-update-dec-8th-all-ballots-after-nov-3rd-are-null-and-void.html#

Cool

There is a catch here. Although the postal ballots were overwhelmingly favoring Joe Biden, from what I have heard, the late arriving postal ballots were more favorable towards Donald Trump. At least in states such as Arizona, Trump held a considerable margin with these late arriving ballots. So I don't think that it is going to make any difference in the outcome. Anyway, the total number of these ballots may not exceed a couple of thousands max, per state.

Was Trump ahead at midnight or not?     Cool
The election itself was completed, "consummated", on the 3rd. Counting all the votes was not, and never is but that case had nothing to do with counting the votes but that the voting was finished on that day. You're grasping at straws.

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December 09, 2020, 09:15:10 PM
 #999

SCOTUS was brutaly terse on the Pennsylvania Kraken:

Loading...

https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/120820zr_bq7d.pdf

That's all that is really needed though, there is no substance to this case and there is literally no reason for the SC to take up the case. If they did it would probably end up being a 9-0 decision in favor of the lower courts decision blocking what the Trump admin wants.

Not really sure how the court actually makes a decision on this, though I think that because this is Altios 'area' in regards to where court cases come from he may have some sort of control of these cases. Even then, the court probably couldn't get a majority to agree on bringing this up because it's garbage anyway.





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December 09, 2020, 10:19:16 PM
 #1000

Not really sure how the court actually makes a decision on this, though I think that because this is Altios 'area' in regards to where court cases come from he may have some sort of control of these cases. Even then, the court probably couldn't get a majority to agree on bringing this up because it's garbage anyway.

Alito takes emergency cases from his area and decides to refer them to the full court or not... in this case he did. AFAIK they don't need a majority to accept it, only 4 (or is it 3?) in favor is enough.

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