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Author Topic: [BET] Trump or not Trump 2020, eddie13 vs suchmoon  (Read 9804 times)
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August 03, 2020, 06:59:53 AM
 #481

Those swing states seem to be the battle ground every 4 years. Sometimes they are blue and other times they are red but controversy in not that far behind when re-counts and on occasion Court injunctions are part of the equation but as difficult as it might seem I would not be surprised about vote rigging at any stage of any election process.

If a sitting President does decide to play games to prolong his stay in office then yes it can be seen as a conflict of interest. If memory serves correct the only time it happened that I can think of off the top of my head when a US election was delayed was during WW2 when Roosevelt was given permission by Congress to delay the election because of the war.


We have to remember that vote rigging is more possible in local elections where the only determining factor to determine the outcome of a race IS the popular vote. It's harder to do in the electoral college b/c of the fact that you'd have to know beforehand where the best states are to attempt to rig. Even with just knowing in broad strokes the swing states, it's still hard to get another 30k or so votes into a state.

In a regular local election which only relies on the popular vote, it's a bit easier. But with the EC it's not as easy -- b/c a rigged vote in Cali does not change the fate of the vote in another state.

But yeah, a sitting President obviously shouldn't be able to delay when their election happens. That's a clear conflict of interest and it's good that the founding father saw that a decision like that should be left to the Congress.

Eh, maybe these swing states have been the same for the past decade or two, but the states do change across the US as demographics change, policy changes, and so on and so forth.

Going to be sourcing from Wikipedia here, but it does the job for this particular subject.

For example, many currently Republican states, like Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee, and West Virginia, had been battlegrounds as recently as 2004.[25]
From the results of recent presidential elections, a general conclusion was reached that the Democratic and Republican parties start with a default electoral vote count of 188 each.[28] In this scenario, the thirteen competitive states are Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Arizona, Georgia, Virginia, Florida, Michigan, Nevada, Colorado, North Carolina, and Maine. Nebraska's 2nd congressional district is also considered competitive.

Pretty cool little interactive here - https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/10/15/us/politics/swing-history.html

Mr. President Trump will win, regardless of the polls. Don't you remember last election?

By that logic every president would get re-elected, which is not the case.

Heh lol.

I guess for some younger people and even most American voters (as they have such a short memory) they think that the incumbent President can't lose reelection because that was the case for the last 3 (Clinton, Bush, Obama) People forget that the first Bush did lose reelection, to Clinton.




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August 03, 2020, 06:32:01 PM
 #482

Please keep your emo walls up a bit so the TDS isn't too bad just incase Trump wins alright?
Be prepared for the worst.. Ok guys?
Just tryin to look out for ya you know..

Though it may be very tempting, I'd warn against getting too emotionally invested in Biden, however snugly he may seem, it just might not work out for ya..
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August 09, 2020, 07:01:17 AM
 #483

If the drama level keeps going up at this rate Kanye will for sure be the next president.

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August 09, 2020, 07:14:59 AM
 #484

Trump signed an executive order today.

Met in the middle with a 400$/wk federal unemployment supplement. Dem's wanted $600/wk up until January, Republicans wanted $200/wk. He also introduced a payroll tax cut.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/08/900516854/in-executive-actions-trump-extends-unemployment-benefits

Power of the executive is forever increasing. No stopping it at this point. Trump will also use this to his advantage during the debates claiming Nancy Pelosi stopped the checks.

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August 09, 2020, 11:38:52 AM
 #485

If Kanye ends up getting in the Whitehouse it will be the biggest shock in US political history, I just cannot see it happening.

If the drama level keeps going up at this rate Kanye will for sure be the next president.

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August 09, 2020, 01:24:39 PM
 #486

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/08/trump-antagonizes-sheldon-adelson-phone-call-392688
Quote
Trump antagonizes GOP megadonor Adelson in heated phone call
Trump chided the Las Vegas mogul — a financial linchpin of his reelection effort — for not spending more. And now, he might not.

Thank you, Mr. President, I really appreciate your hard work helping me to win my bet.

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August 09, 2020, 04:05:28 PM
 #487

Met in the middle with a 400$/wk federal unemployment supplement. Dem's wanted $600/wk up until January, Republicans wanted $200/wk. He also introduced a payroll tax cut.
It is actually $300/week paid by the federal government, with the condition that states pay an additional $100/week.

Here Trump is taking credit for helping unemployed Americans, while also making the lock-downs less popular. This should both help Trump get votes from moderates, while also hurting democrats in down ballot races in state and local elections.

Quote
Power of the executive is forever increasing. No stopping it at this point. Trump will also use this to his advantage during the debates claiming Nancy Pelosi stopped the checks.
The legality of Trump's actions are dubious, however it would be stupid politically to try to take action to try to stop it. Trump is redirecting money earmarked for FEMA to pay for the enhanced benefits, so there is money appropriated, which means it isn't a guarantee Trump looses in court. If Trump were to be stopped, Congress would need to sue the Trump administration, which means democrats would own it. Democrats suing to stop the enhanced benefits would mean they would take the blame for the stopped benefits, the lock-downs would be even more unpopular (hurting down ballot elections).

Pelosi and Schemer overplayed their hands in the negotiations. Biden meanwhile is in a tough spot, if he is supportive of Trump's actions, he is praising his opponent, however if he is critical of Trump's actions, he is seen as being against helping unemployed Americans.

The most genius part of all this is Trump holding the press conference at his NJ golf club, with members being able to attend, who are generally his supporters being how much they are paying to be a member there. This meant Trump got laughs, applause and cheering he would not normally get when making this kind of announcement.

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August 09, 2020, 06:08:40 PM
 #488

Trump signed an executive order today.

Met in the middle with a 400$/wk federal unemployment supplement. Dem's wanted $600/wk up until January, Republicans wanted $200/wk. He also introduced a payroll tax cut.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/08/900516854/in-executive-actions-trump-extends-unemployment-benefits

Power of the executive is forever increasing. No stopping it at this point. Trump will also use this to his advantage during the debates claiming Nancy Pelosi stopped the checks.

Not a fan of the executive continuing to increase their power. But we all know that both sides of the aisle are going to like the executive being more and more powerful because it helps them when their side of the aisle is running the show.

Highly doubt that this is going to be something that passes through the courts, as Congress is given the power of the purse. But we'll see what the courts decide and what their current interpretation of executive power is.





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August 09, 2020, 09:31:36 PM
 #489

The legality of Trump's actions are dubious, however it would be stupid politically to try to take action to try to stop it. Trump is redirecting money earmarked for FEMA to pay for the enhanced benefits, so there is money appropriated, which means it isn't a guarantee Trump looses in court. If Trump were to be stopped, Congress would need to sue the Trump administration, which means democrats would own it. Democrats suing to stop the enhanced benefits would mean they would take the blame for the stopped benefits, the lock-downs would be even more unpopular (hurting down ballot elections).

Pelosi and Schemer overplayed their hands in the negotiations. Biden meanwhile is in a tough spot, if he is supportive of Trump's actions, he is praising his opponent, however if he is critical of Trump's actions, he is seen as being against helping unemployed Americans.

The most genius part of all this is Trump holding the press conference at his NJ golf club, with members being able to attend, who are generally his supporters being how much they are paying to be a member there. This meant Trump got laughs, applause and cheering he would not normally get when making this kind of announcement.



The legality of Trump's actions are dubious, however it would be stupid politically to try to take action to try to stop it. Trump is redirecting money earmarked for FEMA to pay for the enhanced benefits, so there is money appropriated, which means it isn't a guarantee Trump looses in court. If Trump were to be stopped, Congress would need to sue the Trump administration, which means democrats would own it. Democrats suing to stop the enhanced benefits would mean they would take the blame for the stopped benefits, the lock-downs would be even more unpopular (hurting down ballot elections).

I wouldn't be surprised to see republicans put up a fight as well since this is the kind of move conservatives have been campaigning on preventing forever.  A few have already spoken out on it.





Pelosi and Schemer overplayed their hands in the negotiations. Biden meanwhile is in a tough spot, if he is supportive of Trump's actions, he is praising his opponent, however if he is critical of Trump's actions, he is seen as being against helping unemployed Americans.

Trump is trying to gut social security and decide what to do with the money on his own without congress.  Seems pretty easy spot for democrats to me - nothing they do would really change the view of people who believe they are 'against helping unemployed Americans'.

In the end I think Trump is pissing off the Republicans by stripping congress of power and Democrats for going after social security.

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August 09, 2020, 10:59:59 PM
 #490


The legality of Trump's actions are dubious, however it would be stupid politically to try to take action to try to stop it. Trump is redirecting money earmarked for FEMA to pay for the enhanced benefits, so there is money appropriated, which means it isn't a guarantee Trump looses in court. If Trump were to be stopped, Congress would need to sue the Trump administration, which means democrats would own it. Democrats suing to stop the enhanced benefits would mean they would take the blame for the stopped benefits, the lock-downs would be even more unpopular (hurting down ballot elections).

I wouldn't be surprised to see republicans put up a fight as well since this is the kind of move conservatives have been campaigning on preventing forever.  A few have already spoken out on it.

[img ]https://i.gyazo.com/06a3b74a50ca5e5934e1b9e3601231fd.png[/img]
Individual senators have no authority to challenge Trump's actions. Any legal challenge would need to come from the House as an institution, or the Senate as an institution. I am not sure what specifically can trigger a challenge by the Senate or the House, but it would likely start with leadership of the majority agreeing to want to take action, and there being a vote.


Pelosi and Schemer overplayed their hands in the negotiations. Biden meanwhile is in a tough spot, if he is supportive of Trump's actions, he is praising his opponent, however if he is critical of Trump's actions, he is seen as being against helping unemployed Americans.

Trump is trying to gut social security and decide what to do with the money on his own without congress.  Seems pretty easy spot for democrats to me - nothing they do would really change the view of people who believe they are 'against helping unemployed Americans'.

In the end I think Trump is pissing off the Republicans by stripping congress of power and Democrats for going after social security.
Trump is making the issue of middle tax cuts an election issue. He is making it an election issue and will force Democrats to either agree that Trump is doing the right thing, or campaign on raising taxes on the middle class, both of which would hurt house Democrats, either with their base, or with moderates.

The payroll tax cut is an additional incentive to get back to work. If they were making $10/hour before the pandemic, they would now effectively be making ~$10.62/hour upon returning to work. The more people that return to work, the more opportunities of those without a job will have to get a job.

Trump is not gutting Social Security. In ~2011(?), when there was a temporary 2% tax holiday on social security taxes, Obama directed the treasury to put government bonds of equal value of the lost tax revenue into the social security trust fund, and I have every reason to believe Trump would do the same thing. Further, the difference between cutting the payroll tax and sending a cash payment to those who make under a threshold is a distinction without a difference, as in both cases it is the Federal government that needs to borrow to pay for it.

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August 09, 2020, 11:18:19 PM
 #491

In the end I think Trump is pissing off the Republicans by stripping congress of power and Democrats for going after social security.

It's ok, if it doesn't work out he can say "I was joking".

As for Republicans - I wouldn't bet on them growing a collective spine if they think that this EO can help them in the election.

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August 10, 2020, 03:27:09 PM
 #492


As for Republicans - I wouldn't bet on them growing a collective spine if they think that this EO can help them in the election.
Is this kinda how Creepy Joe Biden, Nervous Nancy, Cryin Chuck, or any otherdemocrat for that matter refuses to stand up to the rioters, looters, or BLM/Anifta terrorists, as long as they think their actions will help the left in the election?

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August 10, 2020, 05:30:35 PM
 #493

Shipments Of 20,000 Fake IDs From China Seized By Feds Ahead Of Election"

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/shipments-20000-fake-ids-china-seized-feds-ahead-election

Russia working with Republicans = credible threat justifying years of investigation in spite of total lack of evidence.

China working with Democrats = INCONCEIVABLE!

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August 10, 2020, 05:52:09 PM
 #494

~

Please try to stay on topic. Underage drinking is not the topic here regardless of what your favorite conspiratard site says.

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August 10, 2020, 06:13:04 PM
 #495

~

Please try to stay on topic. Underage drinking is not the topic here regardless of what your favorite conspiratard site says.

I think the point he was trying to make is that voter id laws would mostly suppress votes and do very little in terms of the already low voter fraud numbers.



Current projections from ABC sho GA, NC and AZ as closest races...and they don't matter.



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August 10, 2020, 06:35:29 PM
 #496




Current projections from ABC sho GA, NC and AZ as closest races...and they don't matter.



That map shows Biden flipping every battle ground state, making GA a toss up, that hasn’t voted Democrat in two decades, and makes TX a lean trump state, that hasn’t voted Democrat in four decades (and no democrat has come within 10 points of winning in at least two decades).

Frankly, at best that map is wishful thinking and more realistically that map is fantasy.

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August 10, 2020, 07:48:35 PM
 #497

So if the election takes place in November 2020 it seems Biden will trump Trump

 Grin


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August 10, 2020, 07:51:37 PM
 #498

That map shows Biden flipping every battle ground state
No it doesn't.



making GA a toss up, that hasn’t voted Democrat in two decades, and makes TX a lean trump state, that hasn’t voted Democrat in four decades (and no democrat has come within 10 points of winning in at least two decades).

The model is based on recent polling data.  Here are some results of recent polls in GA and TX:









Frankly, at best that map is wishful thinking and more realistically that map is fantasy.

Frankly,  I think Georgia being a toss up state is fine and not all the surprising considering black americans opinion of Trump and Biden as well as the results of the last election, and I don't think it would be unreasonable to make Texas one as well.  What you seem to be arguing is that polls are worthless or even malicious.

While it's impressive how effective Trump has been at convincing his supporters that a negative poll is a direct attack on himself and therefore the pollsters must be attacked in his defense, if you step back and consider the experience and track record of the reputable polling companies - you realize there is too much of an incentive for them to be as accurate and unbiased as possible.

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August 10, 2020, 08:01:50 PM
 #499

Frankly,  I don't see how Georgia could be considered anything but a toss up state and I don't think it would be unreasonable to make Texas one as well.  What you seem to be arguing is that polls are worthless or even malicious.

While it's impressive how effective Trump has been at convincing his supporters that a negative poll is a direct attack on himself and therefore the pollsters must be attacked in his defense, if you step back and consider the experience and track record of the reputable polling companies - you realize there is too much of an incentive for them to be as accurate and unbiased as possible.


As long as Trump is within margins of Joe Biden in GA and TX in the polls, he'll take the states. In 2016, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania state polling had him down by 4 points in some polls but he was still able to win them.

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August 10, 2020, 08:56:04 PM
 #500

As long as Trump is within margins of Joe Biden in GA and TX in the polls, he'll take the states. In 2016, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania state polling had him down by 4 points in some polls but he was still able to win them.

He's basically on the edge of the MOE in most polls right now.  Definitely still has a shot but assuming that Trump will win because he's down in the polls less than the margin of error seems like a mistake. 


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