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Author Topic: [BET] Trump or not Trump 2020, eddie13 vs suchmoon  (Read 9804 times)
squatz1
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September 24, 2020, 07:18:17 AM
 #681

Do you really not see Trumps pattern of authoritarian tendencies?  

Attacking the media, contradicting science, spreading misinformation, seizing power from congress...

How is Trump seizing power from Congress? The senate has full authority to block a vote on a nominee if they please. Democrats have threatened to pack the courts if they don't get what they want here, which is basically seizing power from congress so judges can legislate from the bench.

I wasn't referring to the recent SCOTUS news.

Some examples of things he's done to weaken the legislative branch and increase the executive banch:

-Diverted military funding to pay for the border wall without congressional approval.

-Withheld funds that congress had already signed off on  to help Ukraine in order to pressure the Ukrainian president to publicly announce an investigation into Biden.

-Refuses to allow House leaders to be briefed on military strikes or potential military strikes - I think he said something like 'my tweets are your briefing'.







Military funding without congressional approval -- Does anyone know where this is at in the courts as of right now? As this was money diverted from SPECIFIC programs (picked by the WH / other counsels) that were thought by some to be able to be under the discretion of the President.

Ukraine, well yeah, this shouldn't have happened. Though having the final say on ordering the funds to be released is up to the executive branch (disregarding the whole rest of the scandal for a moment)

House leaders briefings -- I know they are getting briefings delivered to them now, it's not in person but it is still being delivered to them on sheets of paper. Them in this case being the gang of eight (intelligence) who have to be kept in the loop on things relating to national security. Yet again, this is one of those things that have just been left to the executive being nice enough to share a lot of info. Has never been tested in the courts relating to how much info / how often / etc (to the best of my knowledge)

Sigh, the executive will always be a King (or Queen)




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September 24, 2020, 09:12:05 AM
 #682

Yes it is possible that he just wants to do well for the US but many of his steps or missteps have not been conducive for either domestic or international cohesion.

Not sure exactly what he has managed to achieve that can be classed as a success for the citizens of the USA.


It’s completely impossible that Trump just wants to do well for the United States.. Right?


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September 24, 2020, 09:36:57 AM
 #683

Do you really not see Trumps pattern of authoritarian tendencies?  

Attacking the media, contradicting science, spreading misinformation, seizing power from congress...

How is Trump seizing power from Congress? The senate has full authority to block a vote on a nominee if they please. Democrats have threatened to pack the courts if they don't get what they want here, which is basically seizing power from congress so judges can legislate from the bench.

I wasn't referring to the recent SCOTUS news.

Some examples of things he's done to weaken the legislative branch and increase the executive banch:

-Diverted military funding to pay for the border wall without congressional approval.

-Withheld funds that congress had already signed off on  to help Ukraine in order to pressure the Ukrainian president to publicly announce an investigation into Biden.

-Refuses to allow House leaders to be briefed on military strikes or potential military strikes - I think he said something like 'my tweets are your briefing'.



I don't disagree with you on the border wall funding. He had the legal authority to divert funding for national security, but obviously illegal immigration isn't a national security threat, fair criticism.

Your other two examples are more nuanced. If we're talking about precedent, Obama routinely started military conflicts without congressional approval. It isn't necessarily a Trump thing. The power of the executive has grown exponentially.

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September 24, 2020, 10:14:40 AM
 #684

The wall has cost billions so far and has not yet been completed, it may cost up to $22+ billion to complete and maybe $750 million per year to maintain. Currently costing around $20 million per mile ($12.5 million per km).

Just not sure that was really a priority for a Presidential candidate to make a pledge about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_wall




I don't disagree with you on the border wall funding. He had the legal authority to divert funding for national security, but obviously illegal immigration isn't a national security threat, fair criticism.

Your other two examples are more nuanced. If we're talking about precedent, Obama routinely started military conflicts without congressional approval. It isn't necessarily a Trump thing. The power of the executive has grown exponentially.

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September 24, 2020, 12:32:52 PM
Last edit: September 24, 2020, 12:43:28 PM by eddie13
 #685

The wall would have been a lot easier and cheaper if it wasn’t caught tooth and nail every inch of the way..
It is a threat to national security as soon as the flood of immigrants can vote..

Authoritarian?
Even something as simple as masks, Biden has no qualms about even stating in his ads he wants to implement a nationwide mandatory mask order..
It’s not even comparable.. The left is so authoritarian they are nonchalant about it.. They advertise it..

You are a problem with what trump did with Ukraine but not what Biden did in Ukraine?
Really?
Same with the Russia scandal, accuse Trump of exactly what they themselves have done..

The media is also absolutely disgusting.. Pushing their leftist agenda in everything they report..
Can you not see it?
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September 24, 2020, 03:56:51 PM
 #686

The wall has cost billions so far and has not yet been completed, it may cost up to $22+ billion to complete and maybe $750 million per year to maintain. Currently costing around $20 million per mile ($12.5 million per km).

Just not sure that was really a priority for a Presidential candidate to make a pledge about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_wall




I don't disagree with you on the border wall funding. He had the legal authority to divert funding for national security, but obviously illegal immigration isn't a national security threat, fair criticism.

Your other two examples are more nuanced. If we're talking about precedent, Obama routinely started military conflicts without congressional approval. It isn't necessarily a Trump thing. The power of the executive has grown exponentially.

So there is one thing that I understand about the wall and why it 'would kinda work'. It can't be taken down by the next President by executive order. Once it would be put it, I think it would be pretty unpopular to just remove a border wall on your own whims. With that said, the thought process for some is that Dems don't care about ilegal immigraiton and b/c of that if they put up a physical structure of a wall then the Dems aren't able to sabotage it.

I would much rather us build a VIRTUAL wall on the border with the usage of drones and such, much cheaper and much more effective. But I guess we'll see where that goes. The common issue in all of these solutions is that we have a massive shortage of border patrol agents mostly b/c we don't pay them enough and we can't attract the right sort of talent. Why go work for border patrol when you can make more as a private security guard? LOL.




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September 24, 2020, 04:44:34 PM
 #687

So there is one thing that I understand about the wall and why it 'would kinda work'. It can't be taken down by the next President by executive order. Once it would be put it, I think it would be pretty unpopular to just remove a border wall on your own whims. With that said, the thought process for some is that Dems don't care about ilegal immigraiton and b/c of that if they put up a physical structure of a wall then the Dems aren't able to sabotage it.

The "wall" is comically DDOSable. It takes someone perhaps a half hour and one charge of a DeWalt battery to cut a hole through it, and probably days and thousands of dollars for the US taxpayer to fix it. No Dem sabotage involved.

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September 24, 2020, 05:46:08 PM
 #688

That options seems significantly cheaper than a physical wall but the process has started and probably will not be stopped now.

Private security guards earn more than border patrol officers? That seems a strange thing. They could have raised their salaries and hired many more to cover hotspots on the border.

How much would say border patrol officers and security guards earn on average?


I would much rather us build a VIRTUAL wall on the border with the usage of drones and such, much cheaper and much more effective. But I guess we'll see where that goes. The common issue in all of these solutions is that we have a massive shortage of border patrol agents mostly b/c we don't pay them enough and we can't attract the right sort of talent. Why go work for border patrol when you can make more as a private security guard? LOL.

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September 24, 2020, 06:17:24 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #689

How much would say border patrol officers and security guards earn on average?

Border patrol is about $70k a year: https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Border_Patrol_Agent/Salary

Guards can make as low as $15 / $16 an hour so $30k give or take.
Or as much as $160k for big name security in some areas.
Pre-Covid there were some guards in buildings in NYC pulling in over $90k for being glorified hall monitors in buildings. But, the big buildings with the big companies wanted them there to make everyone feel safe.
So it's kind of a wide range.

On, the flip side very few people are taking shots at the "hall monitors" even the lower paid ones.

-Dave





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September 24, 2020, 08:10:06 PM
 #690

Thank you Dave for the information and the comparisons between the salaries, they vary a lot depending on location and other things. If border patrol staff make around $70k per annum then there should be many people who might be in low paid jobs would look at that as a good or excellent salary and would like to make the transition.

Those glorified hall monitors you referred to that make $90k+ per annum, that is a lot more money than the border patrol officers though there could be give and take in the number of contractual weekly/monthly hours involved. Maybe if the salary was higher it would make it more appealing to a wider prospective job-seeker.


Border patrol is about $70k a year: https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Border_Patrol_Agent/Salary

Guards can make as low as $15 / $16 an hour so $30k give or take.
Or as much as $160k for big name security in some areas.
Pre-Covid there were some guards in buildings in NYC pulling in over $90k for being glorified hall monitors in buildings. But, the big buildings with the big companies wanted them there to make everyone feel safe.
So it's kind of a wide range.

On, the flip side very few people are taking shots at the "hall monitors" even the lower paid ones.

-Dave

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September 24, 2020, 09:45:28 PM
 #691

So we can say, suchmoon will be the first to be wronged if Trump win  !!!?  🤔

.
.
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September 25, 2020, 12:42:55 AM
 #692

So we can say, suchmoon will be the first to be wronged if Trump win  !!!?  🤔

It's a bet. I lose money if Trump wins.

Assuming your word salad means what I think it means.



Speaking of the overripe pumpkin... he wants to get rid of the ballots. Gotta admit, it's a bold strategy. No ballots, no election, no worries.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-press-briefing-092420/

Quote
Q    Mr. President, real quickly: Win, lose, or draw in this election, will you commit here, today, for a peaceful transferal of power after the election?  And there has been rioting in Louisville.  There’s been rioting in many cities across this country — red and — your so-called red and blue states.   Will you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transferal of power after the election?

THE PRESIDENT:  Well, we’re going to have to see what happens.  You know that.  I’ve been complaining very strongly about the ballots.  And the ballots are a disaster.  And — and —

Q    I understand that, but people are rioting.  Do you commit to making sure that —

THE PRESIDENT:  Oh, I know.  I know.  Yeah, no, we want —

Q    — there’s a peaceful transferal of power?

THE PRESIDENT:  We want to have — get rid of the ballots and you’ll have a very trans- — we’ll have a very peaceful — there won’t be a transfer, frankly; there’ll be a continuation.

The ballots are out of control.  You know it.  And you know who knows it better than —

Q    No, sir.  I don’t know that.

THE PRESIDENT:  — anybody else?  The Democrats know it better than anybody else.

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September 25, 2020, 03:11:51 AM
 #693

So there is one thing that I understand about the wall and why it 'would kinda work'. It can't be taken down by the next President by executive order. Once it would be put it, I think it would be pretty unpopular to just remove a border wall on your own whims. With that said, the thought process for some is that Dems don't care about ilegal immigraiton and b/c of that if they put up a physical structure of a wall then the Dems aren't able to sabotage it.

The "wall" is comically DDOSable. It takes someone perhaps a half hour and one charge of a DeWalt battery to cut a hole through it, and probably days and thousands of dollars for the US taxpayer to fix it. No Dem sabotage involved.

It's also not really a wall.  It's a fence.

And aside from 8 miles, it was built when people other than Trump were president.

And the 8 miles that were built while Trump was president were not paid for by Mexico.

And the White House/Trump Campaign 'Chief Strategist' was arrested for being involved in a scam 'build the wall' charity.

And speaking of charities, the President also had a scam charity and is now banned from running or being on the board of any charitable foundation in the State of NY.

And all this stuff can easily be forgotten because we have a new example of what a slime ball Trump is almost on a daily basis.  After 4 years it's just too many to keep track of.

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September 25, 2020, 03:54:45 AM
 #694

It's also not really a wall.  It's a fence.

And he wants it to be painted black for reasons unknown to any sane person. A few hundred million bucks just for that but who's counting.

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September 25, 2020, 04:41:16 AM
 #695

So we can say, suchmoon will be the first to be wronged if Trump win  !!!?  🤔

It's a bet. I lose money if Trump wins.

This is false. If Trump wins, investments in your 401k are likely to continue to increase, as will your wages, and standard of living. If Biden wins, the economy will go to the shitter, real wages will decline, as will investments in your 401k. If you have children, their livelihoods over their lifetimes will decline.

If Trump wins, you will profit, and if Biden wins, you will lose a lot of money, and freedoms.

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September 25, 2020, 05:05:03 AM
 #696

This is false.

No, it isn't. Quit lying.


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September 25, 2020, 05:13:19 AM
 #697

For clarity, I was referring to the total sum of your financial situation, not just this bet.

I am not aware of any reasonable argument suggesting that anyone would be better off financially under a Biden Presidency verses Trump winning reelection, nor am I aware that anyone will lose "only" ~$1000 under a Biden presidency. This assumes you are not a member of the Biden family or are otherwise politically connected, in which case, you would stand to make millions.

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September 25, 2020, 07:29:43 AM
 #698

Is there any statistical data or projection to back up these claims? Do you a URL?

How and why does Biden winning mean the economy will go downhill and wages will decline or the livelihood of children will decline over their lifetime?

How and why does Biden winning mean US citizens lose money and freedoms?



This is false. If Trump wins, investments in your 401k are likely to continue to increase, as will your wages, and standard of living. If Biden wins, the economy will go to the shitter, real wages will decline, as will investments in your 401k. If you have children, their livelihoods over their lifetimes will decline.

If Trump wins, you will profit, and if Biden wins, you will lose a lot of money, and freedoms.

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September 25, 2020, 01:00:54 PM
 #699

For clarity, I was referring to the total sum of your financial situation, not just this bet.

For even more clarity I think you should leave this thread. Your digging into my personal life does not become more acceptable with your use of sockpuppets. Bye.



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September 25, 2020, 02:29:06 PM
 #700

This is false. If Trump wins, investments in your 401k are likely to continue to increase, as will your wages, and standard of living. If Biden wins, the economy will go to the shitter, real wages will decline, as will investments in your 401k. If you have children, their livelihoods over their lifetimes will decline.

If Trump wins, you will profit, and if Biden wins, you will lose a lot of money, and freedoms.

Unless you have a crystal ball it's impossible for you to know any of this.  I would advise thinking twice before blindly believing what Trump has to say about what will happen in the future.  (or what happened in the past)

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