How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World

[Renampun]

...
Bitcoin is a number. Numbers are infinite in quantity. Just because you made a protocol that limits numbers to 21 million means nothing. One can set such limit to 10. Someone else to 100 billion. That's just protocols.
...

bitcoin is not just a number but also a "trust", you have failed to understand that...

gold will have no value if no one believes it is valuable, the same goes for fiat which is regulated and circulated by the government. If you have ever studied advanced economics then you will understand that numbers are infinite but trust is finite and that is what makes any asset (property, gold and gems) have value.

[Snowshow]

Crypto is scam in general because it creates a system that issues the certificates to lure people to invest, and then people are able to return the investments only if new investors buy the certificates. Hence, a modern day investment scam.

Nah, crypto is about decentralization and individual empowerment. Nothing can be used to mislead people, and none of these fraudulent practices can work here.
In fact, I can only say that crypto is the most promising form of money creation system we have in this era and crypto and blockchain are here to stay.

Yes, that's the story you must preach because you're not able to return your investment from the system whose certificates you hold. You need new investors and you must trick them to buy your worthless certificates by talking about decentralization, empowerment, how your certificates will save the humanity, make poor people rich, how they are equivalent to Jesus, and so on.  I understand what you're doing. It's just that people don't buy this nonsense anymore.

[Stalker22]

Crypto is scam in general because it creates a system that issues the certificates to lure people to invest, and then people are able to return the investments only if new investors buy the certificates. Hence, a modern day investment scam.

Nah, crypto is about decentralization and individual empowerment. Nothing can be used to mislead people, and none of these fraudulent practices can work here.
In fact, I can only say that crypto is the most promising form of money creation system we have in this era and crypto and blockchain are here to stay.

Yes, that's the story you must preach because you're not able to return your investment from the system whose certificates you hold. You need new investors and you must trick them to buy your worthless certificates by talking about decentralization, empowerment, how your certificates will save the humanity, make poor people rich, how they are equivalent to Jesus, and so on.  I understand what you're doing. It's just that people don't buy this nonsense anymore.

I don't have to "preach" anything or "trick" anyone, I can just take my "numbers" at any moment and buy ANYTHING and ANYWHERE in the world. Now, can you explain how that is not a benefit or how there is no value in that system? Is there another system similar to that or even better?

Also, please let us use valid arguments and do not bring up religion in this discussion. Religion has nothing to do with this and I am sensitive to my religious beliefs. OK?

[Snowshow]

Crypto is scam in general because it creates a system that issues the certificates to lure people to invest, and then people are able to return the investments only if new investors buy the certificates. Hence, a modern day investment scam.

Nah, crypto is about decentralization and individual empowerment. Nothing can be used to mislead people, and none of these fraudulent practices can work here.
In fact, I can only say that crypto is the most promising form of money creation system we have in this era and crypto and blockchain are here to stay.

Yes, that's the story you must preach because you're not able to return your investment from the system whose certificates you hold. You need new investors and you must trick them to buy your worthless certificates by talking about decentralization, empowerment, how your certificates will save the humanity, make poor people rich, how they are equivalent to Jesus, and so on.  I understand what you're doing. It's just that people don't buy this nonsense anymore.

I don't have to "preach" anything or "trick" anyone, I can just take my "numbers" at any moment and buy ANYTHING and ANYWHERE in the world. Now, can you explain how that is not a benefit or how there is no value in that system? Is there another system similar to that or even better?

Also, please let us use valid arguments and do not bring up religion in this discussion. Religion has nothing to do with this and I am sensitive to my religious beliefs. OK?

Sure you have to preach. You hold certificates of the system that won't return even a dime worth of your investment. Meaning you were tricked into buying the certificates which are completely worthless. And now you are forced to trick others to buy these worthless certificates by speaking and preaching positive about them. I understand. This preaching is what tricked people into buying the certificates in the first place. Now there's a whole army of tricked victims (holders) and they all need new investors to get rid of the worthless certificates and return their investments. So, of course that the only thing this army will do all day long is talking positive about their holdings.

[Stalker22]

Sure you have to preach. You hold certificates of the system that won't return even a dime worth of your investment. Meaning you were tricked into buying the certificates which are completely worthless. And now you are forced to trick others to buy these worthless certificates by speaking and preaching positive about them. I understand. This preaching is what tricked people into buying the certificates in the first place. Now there's a whole army of tricked victims (holders) and they all need new investors to return their investments. So, of course that the only thing this army will do all day long is talking positive about their holdings.

You made a bunch of bullshit up. Every part of it is incorrect.

1. Like I said before, I don't have to preach. No one has to. There is no reward system or other form of incentive for those who preach versus those who don't. Every bitcoin holder has the same rights and opportunities as everyone else in the system. Therefore, your claim is totally incorrect.

2. I do not hold any "certificates". I have no idea where you got that definition from, or if it is just a product of your imagination, but that is not what defines bitcoin cryptocurrency.

3. What exactly am I tricked about? Can you be a little more specific? By the way, bitcoin cryptocurrency is not worthless. Whoever told you that is trying to fool you. Do not trust them!

4. No, I am not forced to do anything. That is what makes it so great.

5. The rest of your post is just wrong conclusions you drew based on the wrong assumptions you made.

[Snowshow]

Sure you have to preach. You hold certificates of the system that won't return even a dime worth of your investment. Meaning you were tricked into buying the certificates which are completely worthless. And now you are forced to trick others to buy these worthless certificates by speaking and preaching positive about them. I understand. This preaching is what tricked people into buying the certificates in the first place. Now there's a whole army of tricked victims (holders) and they all need new investors to return their investments. So, of course that the only thing this army will do all day long is talking positive about their holdings.

You made a bunch of bullshit up. Every part of it is incorrect.

1. Like I said before, I don't have to preach. No one has to. There is no reward system or other form of incentive for those who preach versus those who don't. Every bitcoin holder has the same rights and opportunities as everyone else in the system. Therefore, your claim is totally incorrect.

2. I do not hold any "certificates". I have no idea where you got that definition from, or if it is just a product of your imagination, but that is not what defines bitcoin cryptocurrency.

3. What exactly am I tricked about? Can you be a little more specific? By the way, bitcoin cryptocurrency is not worthless. Whoever told you that is trying to fool you. Do not trust them!

4. No, I am not forced to do anything. That is what makes it so great.

5. The rest of your post is just wrong conclusions you drew based on the wrong assumptions you made.

You do preach. And you do have to preach. Simply because you have to return your investment. If bitcoin is not worthless then why you cannot return even a dime worth of your investment without someone entering the system which issued bitcoin?When you spread lies that bitcoin is not worthless you're preaching. When you say anything positive about bitcoin you're preaching. Bitcoin is an investment certificate that tricks people to invest in a system that returns nothing once people invested. Hence, a scam. You're tricked into this scam and you're now forced to trick others into it to save yourself out of it.

[Disruptivas]

'' Bitcoin is an illusion, a mass hallucination, we are told. They are just numbers in cyberspace, a mirage insubstantial. Bitcoin is only supported by the faith of the fools who buy it and the fools even who buy from these lesser fools. But you know what? It's fair. All this is true.

What is not so easy to understand is that US dollars are also an illusion. They are also numbers in cyberspace. Sometimes they are stored in paper or coins, but while paper and coins are material, the dollars they represent are not.

US dollars are supported only on the faith of fools who accept the dollar as payment and other fools who in turn agree to accept it as payment as well. The main difference is that, at least for the time being, the illusion, in the case of dollars, is more widely and more fiercely accepted. In fact, nearly all US dollars, about 90%, are purely abstract — they literally don't exist in any tangible form.''


This sentence is from an article I love called ´´You don't understand Bitcoin because you think money exists.´´

If you study a little economic anthropology, you will realize that all the money in the world, from the earliest times to the present, has always been a matter of philosophical abstraction. The question is, which abstraction will be the strongest and respond to the demands of its time.

[theRamsar8899]

EDIT: I started this topic by claiming that Bitcoin is a message similar to SMS, email, etc. But, through the discussion here I realized that this is misleading. Because, Bitcoin is actually not real. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist like Greek gods don't exist. The reason is simple: whoever enters the Satoshi's system recieves no coins, no bit-coins.  No assets, no money. Nothing tangible nor intangible. Nothing physical nor digital. Instead, people are just paying for numbers to be changed next to their addresses. In economics, a transaction is an instance of buying or selling something. A payment is an instance of transferring a thing that was bought or sold. In the Satoshi's system nothing is bought or sold. Nothing is transferred. Only numbers are changed next to the addresses. So, Bitcoin doesn't exist and the Satoshi's system is not actually a payment system, but a system for changing, storing and protecting numbers.

Satoshi Nacamoto, is probably someone who lacks education or knowledge in finance and economics. For that reason, he wrote a paper in which he falsely assumed that changing numbers is equivalent of performing transactions or payments. Then, people took his paper at face value. They took it without actually questioning or doubting what was written. This lead to the creation of a religious like belief that revolutionary coin came to Earth to free us from corporations and governments.  Given that we live in the age of internet,  the believe was quickly spread throughout the world. As a consequence, people across the globe now believe that they are buying something very precious and scarce. And that the blockchain is an important place where that precious and scarce thing is kept.  While in reality, only numbers attached to the addresses exist. There's no scarcity, but arbitrarily predefined maximum sum of numbers next to the addresses. And the blockchain is nothing important but just a giant database where numeric changes are stored. So a revolutionary digital coin called Bitcoin is not something that is real. It's simply, a myth.

Here's a more detailed explanation: https://youtu.be/jcraRM6vblQ

I do believe that Bitcoin is made by CIA and Pentagon. The main purpose was to build a new kind of Economic system (to buffer Centralized Finance dominated by the Biggest Banks (eg. Citibank, Merryl Linch, JP Morgan etc.)). Nowadays, all Central Banks in the world joined to Bitcoin ecosystem and tried to dominate the Decentralized Ecosystem.

[Snowshow]

Sure you have to preach. You hold certificates of the system that won't return even a dime worth of your investment. Meaning you were tricked into buying the certificates which are completely worthless. And now you are forced to trick others to buy these worthless certificates by speaking and preaching positive about them. I understand. This preaching is what tricked people into buying the certificates in the first place. Now there's a whole army of tricked victims (holders) and they all need new investors to return their investments. So, of course that the only thing this army will do all day long is talking positive about their holdings.

You made a bunch of bullshit up. Every part of it is incorrect.

1. Like I said before, I don't have to preach. No one has to. There is no reward system or other form of incentive for those who preach versus those who don't. Every bitcoin holder has the same rights and opportunities as everyone else in the system. Therefore, your claim is totally incorrect.

2. I do not hold any "certificates". I have no idea where you got that definition from, or if it is just a product of your imagination, but that is not what defines bitcoin cryptocurrency.

3. What exactly am I tricked about? Can you be a little more specific? By the way, bitcoin cryptocurrency is not worthless. Whoever told you that is trying to fool you. Do not trust them!

4. No, I am not forced to do anything. That is what makes it so great.

5. The rest of your post is just wrong conclusions you drew based on the wrong assumptions you made.

And a couple of questions in addition to what I already wrote.

Let's say that you hold certificates (shares) of Tesla company. Then, Tesla goes bankrupt. Capital is completely gone. It's gone so much that the company is not even able to produce a single car. And consequently, you're not able to return even a dime worth of your investment from the company whose shares you hold. Not today, not in the future. Question: wouldn't it be ok to publicly talk that Tesla shares are very valuable? That they are something that will save the economy and make poor people rich? That adding these shares to your retirement savings is a good strategy? ...

And would I be right, when saying that all that positive talk about Tesla shares, has only one purpose: your want to get rid of worthless shares?

[Stalker22]

~

You do preach. And you do have to preach. Simply because you have to return your investment.

You claim I preach Bitcoin here? On a bitcoin-related forum? Is that what you say?
That sounds kind of absurd, don't you think?

When you say anything positive about bitcoin you're preaching.
~

Does this apply to me only, or to anyone who disagrees with your position? I thought we had a healthy debate, but you seem to be overly emotional now. I am gonna let you cool off for a while so we can continue the discussion when you are feeling less emotional.

[Snowshow]

~

You do preach. And you do have to preach. Simply because you have to return your investment.

You claim I preach Bitcoin here? On a bitcoin-related forum? Is that what you say?
That sounds kind of absurd, don't you think?

When you say anything positive about bitcoin you're preaching.
~

Does this apply to me only, or to anyone who disagrees with your position? I thought we had a healthy debate, but you seem to be overly emotional now. I am gonna let you cool off for a while so we can continue the discussion when you are feeling less emotional.

I have no position. I'm simply saying that you're promoting a worthless certificates as something valuable because you need to dump them at the price higher than you paid for them. All bitcoin holders do that. I am also showing you're promoting lies.

Can you now answer the questions above?

[Anonylz]

Yes, that's the story you must preach because you're not able to return your investment from the system whose certificates you hold. You need new investors and you must trick them to buy your worthless certificates by talking about decentralization, empowerment, how your certificates will save the humanity, make poor people rich, how they are equivalent to Jesus, and so on.  I understand what you're doing. It's just that people don't buy this nonsense anymore.

If people don't buy the nonsense anymore then why are you here trying so hard to prove a point? I believe people have the right and freedom to do as they please. You are too emotionally involved in this your campaign against btc and trying to make it look bad even though btc is not your enemy.
There is nothing you can do or say to change the revolution, you can either be a part of history or stand aside and watch as it unfolds, year after year.

[Snowshow]

Yes, that's the story you must preach because you're not able to return your investment from the system whose certificates you hold. You need new investors and you must trick them to buy your worthless certificates by talking about decentralization, empowerment, how your certificates will save the humanity, make poor people rich, how they are equivalent to Jesus, and so on.  I understand what you're doing. It's just that people don't buy this nonsense anymore.

If people don't buy the nonsense anymore then why are you here trying so hard to prove a point? I believe people have the right and freedom to do as they please. You are too emotionally involved in this your campaign against btc and trying to make it look bad even though btc is not your enemy.
There is nothing you can do or say to change the revolution, you can either be a part of history or stand aside and watch as it unfolds, year after year.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Revolution. That's the story. When you invest in a system and that system is void of anything, which makes it impossible for you to return your investment back, you are left with language, rhetoric, stories, narrative. You need to fantasize about revolution and present the system to the public in that way. You have to dump the worthless certificates of that system. You just proved my point nicely.

[mr_enoc]

EDIT: I started this topic by claiming that Bitcoin is a message similar to SMS, email, etc. But, through the discussion here I realized that this is misleading. Because, Bitcoin is actually not real. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist like Greek gods don't exist. The reason is simple: whoever enters the Satoshi's system recieves no coins, no bit-coins.  No assets, no money. Nothing tangible nor intangible. Nothing physical nor digital. Instead, people are just paying for numbers to be changed next to their addresses. In economics, a transaction is an instance of buying or selling something. A payment is an instance of transferring a thing that was bought or sold. In the Satoshi's system nothing is bought or sold. Nothing is transferred. Only numbers are changed next to the addresses. So, Bitcoin doesn't exist and the Satoshi's system is not actually a payment system, but a system for changing, storing and protecting numbers.

Satoshi Nacamoto, is probably someone who lacks education or knowledge in finance and economics. For that reason, he wrote a paper in which he falsely assumed that changing numbers is equivalent of performing transactions or payments. Then, people took his paper at face value. They took it without actually questioning or doubting what was written. This lead to the creation of a religious like belief that revolutionary coin came to Earth to free us from corporations and governments.  Given that we live in the age of internet,  the believe was quickly spread throughout the world. As a consequence, people across the globe now believe that they are buying something very precious and scarce. And that the blockchain is an important place where that precious and scarce thing is kept.  While in reality, only numbers attached to the addresses exist. There's no scarcity, but arbitrarily predefined maximum sum of numbers next to the addresses. And the blockchain is nothing important but just a giant database where numeric changes are stored. So a revolutionary digital coin called Bitcoin is not something that is real. It's simply, a myth.

Here's a more detailed explanation: https://youtu.be/jcraRM6vblQ

I believe in bitcoin. Bitcoin is true and it is not a Myth. Bitcoin is real. I already earn with bitcoin. If it is not true?then, where my money comes? Is there any sites that would give an amount of money out from nothing?

Come on! This post won't help me and anyone else who would love to invest with bitcoin.

[tadamichi]

EDIT: I started this topic by claiming that Bitcoin is a message similar to SMS, email, etc. But, through the discussion here I realized that this is misleading. Because, Bitcoin is actually not real. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist like Greek gods don't exist. The reason is simple: whoever enters the Satoshi's system recieves no coins, no bit-coins.  No assets, no money. Nothing tangible nor intangible. Nothing physical nor digital. Instead, people are just paying for numbers to be changed next to their addresses. In economics, a transaction is an instance of buying or selling something. A payment is an instance of transferring a thing that was bought or sold. In the Satoshi's system nothing is bought or sold. Nothing is transferred. Only numbers are changed next to the addresses. So, Bitcoin doesn't exist and the Satoshi's system is not actually a payment system, but a system for changing, storing and protecting numbers.

Satoshi Nacamoto, is probably someone who lacks education or knowledge in finance and economics. For that reason, he wrote a paper in which he falsely assumed that changing numbers is equivalent of performing transactions or payments. Then, people took his paper at face value. They took it without actually questioning or doubting what was written. This lead to the creation of a religious like belief that revolutionary coin came to Earth to free us from corporations and governments.  Given that we live in the age of internet,  the believe was quickly spread throughout the world. As a consequence, people across the globe now believe that they are buying something very precious and scarce. And that the blockchain is an important place where that precious and scarce thing is kept.  While in reality, only numbers attached to the addresses exist. There's no scarcity, but arbitrarily predefined maximum sum of numbers next to the addresses. And the blockchain is nothing important but just a giant database where numeric changes are stored. So a revolutionary digital coin called Bitcoin is not something that is real. It's simply, a myth.

Here's a more detailed explanation: https://youtu.be/jcraRM6vblQ

Cringe.
Hate to break it to you, but the banking system just uses imaginary numbers too. If a bank run starts tomorrow the whole system will collapse, because of fractional reserves. So is the banking system just a myth now, because the numbers they display dont reflect real world reserves? Nah. We as a society choose how we design our monetary system and Bitcoin tries to achieve this in a decentralized way, because the centralized approach gets abused and abused again. So people buy into Bitcoin to get out of the old system, they dont want a small group of people to control the monetary system. Its really that simple. All the design aspects of Bitcoin are to minimize human influence over it, because like ur post shows, many humans arent the brightest, so its better if no one of us can control it. Bitcoin is a real protocol that exists in the real world. We as people will determine its value, if you think its worthless then dont get it. But millions of people around the world already came to the consensus, that this form of money is more valuable to them, than some bankers toy. And more and more people will come to this conclusion when they see what the previous system will do to them in due time, then even you will realize what value it has, to have decentralized system ready, that is open to everyone. And the myth will probably save your ass. So keep spreading bs, and in the meantime we are here to build a system, that will even save a clowns ass.

[Snowshow]

EDIT: I started this topic by claiming that Bitcoin is a message similar to SMS, email, etc. But, through the discussion here I realized that this is misleading. Because, Bitcoin is actually not real. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist like Greek gods don't exist. The reason is simple: whoever enters the Satoshi's system recieves no coins, no bit-coins.  No assets, no money. Nothing tangible nor intangible. Nothing physical nor digital. Instead, people are just paying for numbers to be changed next to their addresses. In economics, a transaction is an instance of buying or selling something. A payment is an instance of transferring a thing that was bought or sold. In the Satoshi's system nothing is bought or sold. Nothing is transferred. Only numbers are changed next to the addresses. So, Bitcoin doesn't exist and the Satoshi's system is not actually a payment system, but a system for changing, storing and protecting numbers.

Satoshi Nacamoto, is probably someone who lacks education or knowledge in finance and economics. For that reason, he wrote a paper in which he falsely assumed that changing numbers is equivalent of performing transactions or payments. Then, people took his paper at face value. They took it without actually questioning or doubting what was written. This lead to the creation of a religious like belief that revolutionary coin came to Earth to free us from corporations and governments.  Given that we live in the age of internet,  the believe was quickly spread throughout the world. As a consequence, people across the globe now believe that they are buying something very precious and scarce. And that the blockchain is an important place where that precious and scarce thing is kept.  While in reality, only numbers attached to the addresses exist. There's no scarcity, but arbitrarily predefined maximum sum of numbers next to the addresses. And the blockchain is nothing important but just a giant database where numeric changes are stored. So a revolutionary digital coin called Bitcoin is not something that is real. It's simply, a myth.

Here's a more detailed explanation: https://youtu.be/jcraRM6vblQ

Cringe.
Hate to break it to you, but the banking system just uses imaginary numbers too. If a bank run starts tomorrow the whole system will collapse, because of fractional reserves. So is the banking system just a myth now, because the numbers they display dont reflect real world reserves? Nah. We as a society choose how we design our monetary system and Bitcoin tries to achieve this in a decentralized way, because the centralized approach gets abused and abused again. So people buy into Bitcoin to get out of the old system, they dont want a small group of people to control the monetary system. Its really that simple. All the design aspects of Bitcoin are to minimize human influence over it, because like ur post shows, many humans arent the brightest, so its better if no one of us can control it. Bitcoin is a real protocol that exists in the real world. We as people will determine its value, if you think its worthless then dont get it. But millions of people around the world already came to the consensus, that this form of money is more valuable to them, than some bankers toy. And more and more people will come to this conclusion when they see what the previous system will do to them in due time, then even you will realize what value it has, to have decentralized system ready, that is open to everyone. And the myth will probably save your ass. So keep spreading bs, and in the meantime we are here to build a system, that will even save a clowns ass.

All systems use numbers to express the quantity of shares in a system that someone bought. But in the bitcoin system these shares are worthless because their holders are unable to return their investments from the system that issued them.

[Stalker22]

All systems use numbers to express the quantity of shares in a system that someone bought. But in the bitcoin system these shares are worthless because their holders are unable to return their investments from the system that issued them.

I am still not sure whether you truly don't understand or if you are just pretending. Bitcoin is not a system of "shares" like in traditional stock markets. Why do you keep comparing them?
To put it simply, Bitcoin is merely a method of transferring value between two parties. P2P type of payment system. There is no issuer of shares or company in which you invested funds when you exchange fiat currency for cryptocurrency. You simply exchanged one currency for another while, at the same time, someone else did the same in the opposite direction. That is it!

[JayJuanGee]

~

You do preach. And you do have to preach. Simply because you have to return your investment.

You claim I preach Bitcoin here? On a bitcoin-related forum? Is that what you say?
That sounds kind of absurd, don't you think?

When you say anything positive about bitcoin you're preaching.
~

Does this apply to me only, or to anyone who disagrees with your position? I thought we had a healthy debate, but you seem to be overly emotional now. I am gonna let you cool off for a while so we can continue the discussion when you are feeling less emotional.

I have no position. I'm simply saying that you're promoting a worthless certificates as something valuable because you need to dump them at the price higher than you paid for them. All bitcoin holders do that. I am also showing you're promoting lies.

Can you now answer the questions above?

If a member here:

1) describes bitcoin's already existing price performance, then that would largely be an attempt to accurately describe history (or at least I would hope that the description would be attempted be accurate).

or

2) attempts to describe where the BTC price is at, and where s/he expects the BTC price to go that is an attempt to predict the future which should be based on probabilities rather than anything that is certain  - even though some factual outcomes are more probable than other outcomes.

Neither of those are lies if they either do not represent facts and attempt to fairly represent probabilities.

Bitcoin continues to serve as one of the best and greatest asymmetrical bets to the upside because it is widely available to vast swaths of society and there are still quite good odds for BTC price performance to play out positively both in terms of multiples of times current value/price and magnitudes of times current value/price.

Of course, we should be able to recognize and appreciate that on the shorter time horizons such as months to a few years, bitcoin's price has fluctuated quite greatly; however, historically it also appears that the longer that anyone has been in bitcoin, any investment that they have made has been able to compound upon itself so long at any investment strategy errored upon attempting to stay invested (aka HODL) and perhaps to continue to accumulate BTC.

Even though quite a bit of fear mongering continues to exist in the world, there is no real strong evidence showing that bitcoin's future is not likely to continue to be positive in ways similar to its history - even if the degree of the price/value increases are probably not going to be as exponential as they had been historically, merely because bitcoin's market cap is higher.. so a current market cap of $600 billion-ish might have a maxing out value around $1 quadrillion (which would be ONLY around 1,666x more upside).. and it could take a hell of a long time to get from here to there.. perhaps more than 100 years.. 

So we could have a lot of UPs and DOWNs along the way.. and not even guaranteeing that any 4-year period will be profitable - even though historically, so far, BTC prices have always been profitable on any 4-year timeline, but even though bitcoin is likely to continue to go up, there could be some periods of time that last 4 years or more in which the BTC price has not gone to new ATHs during that timeline.

We cannot ignore downside scenarios of bitcoin even going to zero or somewhere close to zero, but the Lindy effect does establish more and more confidence that the longer that bitcoin exists (tick tock next block every 10 minutes not failing) the more likely it is going to continue to exist and continue to build and to continue to serve as a powerful force, and bitcoin seems to already be there, including quite strong ongoing likelihoods of continuing to grow rather than shrinking in value... especially if we zoom out and consider timelines that are at least 4-10 years or more into the future.

Yes, that's the story you must preach because you're not able to return your investment from the system whose certificates you hold. You need new investors and you must trick them to buy your worthless certificates by talking about decentralization, empowerment, how your certificates will save the humanity, make poor people rich, how they are equivalent to Jesus, and so on.  I understand what you're doing. It's just that people don't buy this nonsense anymore.

If people don't buy the nonsense anymore then why are you here trying so hard to prove a point? I believe people have the right and freedom to do as they please. You are too emotionally involved in this your campaign against btc and trying to make it look bad even though btc is not your enemy.
There is nothing you can do or say to change the revolution, you can either be a part of history or stand aside and watch as it unfolds, year after year.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Revolution. That's the story. When you invest in a system and that system is void of anything, which makes it impossible for you to return your investment back, you are left with language, rhetoric, stories, narrative. You need to fantasize about revolution and present the system to the public in that way. You have to dump the worthless certificates of that system. You just proved my point nicely.

You may be correct Snowshow, that revolution might not be an exactly accurate word choice; however it seems to me that we are in the early stages of what seems to the largest transfer of wealth in the history of man, facilitated by bitcoin.  There likely will be some violence along the way, but there does not have to be violence along the way... The defenders of the status quo powers that be, financial institutions and governments who believe that they might be able to stifle bitcoin through violence may well end up deploying some of those kinds of resources and tactics - but it can become difficult to war against bitcoin in terms of traditional mechanisms and could merely end up causing a lot of folks to just be more secretive with their BTC holdings - especially if they believe that they might end up getting targeted by no coiners and low coiners who failed/refused to prepare for the ongoing wealth transfer that is taking place under their noses.. when it seems that they can join in on the bitcoin system at any time that they want, but instead some of them will continue to believe that they can defend their wealth through traditional coercive means, such as violence.   None of us can really know how long the wealth transfer is going to take or to know how quickly some of the no coiners and low coiners are going to jump on board and show that they were precoiners all along... some of them are likely to be so stubborn that they are going to die as no coiners/low coiners, so if they have wealth that is transferred to their heirs, the heirs can choose not to suffer in the same kinds of negative ways as their stubborn predecessors.

So on an individual level, many folks should realize that they are best off to jump on the bitcoin train sooner rather than later.. but the choice remains in their hands because bitcoin is not coercive in traditional senses... .but only provides incentive mechanisms for people to join.. such as NGU technology.

[Snowshow]

All systems use numbers to express the quantity of shares in a system that someone bought. But in the bitcoin system these shares are worthless because their holders are unable to return their investments from the system that issued them.

I am still not sure whether you truly don't understand or if you are just pretending. Bitcoin is not a system of "shares" like in traditional stock markets. Why do you keep comparing them?
To put it simply, Bitcoin is merely a method of transferring value between two parties. P2P type of payment system. There is no issuer of shares or company in which you invested funds when you exchange fiat currency for cryptocurrency. You simply exchanged one currency for another while, at the same time, someone else did the same in the opposite direction. That is it!

You don't get it, do you? Whatever you say about bitcoin it won't change the fact that people cannot get anything from the bitcoin system when holding the record of how many shares in this system they have. People invested in this system, got the records or evidences of their investments, and then they are able to return their investments only if new investors buy their records. The system returns them nothing, it is completely worthless. That what you call bitcoin is just the name for one share in that worthless system. Just like one share in the US dollar system is called a dollar. When people invested in the US dollar system and consequently hold dollars as evidence of their investments (shares in the system), it is this system that returns them their investments. Either through goods, services or labor of the borrowers or their collaterals if they default on their loans. The bitcoin system is a scam that lures people to invest, and then leaves them with nothing, which is why they are forced to wait for new investors like in all investment scams.. Your writing is just marketing for the bitcoin scam. People are not transferring value through the bitcoin system. That's a lie of the bitcoin marketing. They are transferring records of how many shares in the worthless bitcoin system they have. Stop spreading lies and disinformation.

[tadamichi]

All systems use numbers to express the quantity of shares in a system that someone bought. But in the bitcoin system these shares are worthless because their holders are unable to return their investments from the system that issued them.

I am still not sure whether you truly don't understand or if you are just pretending. Bitcoin is not a system of "shares" like in traditional stock markets. Why do you keep comparing them?
To put it simply, Bitcoin is merely a method of transferring value between two parties. P2P type of payment system. There is no issuer of shares or company in which you invested funds when you exchange fiat currency for cryptocurrency. You simply exchanged one currency for another while, at the same time, someone else did the same in the opposite direction. That is it!

You don't get it, do you? Whatever you say about bitcoin it won't change the fact that people cannot get anything from the bitcoin system when holding the record of how many shares in this system they have. People invested in this system, got the records or evidences of their investments, and then they are able to return their investments only if new investors buy their records. The system returns them nothing, it is completely worthless. That what you call bitcoin is just the name for one share in that worthless system. Just like one share in the US dollar system is called a dollar. When people invested in the US dollar system and consequently hold dollars as evidence of their investments (shares in the system), it is this system that returns them their investments. Either through goods, services or labor of the borrowers or their collaterals if they default on their loans. The bitcoin system is a scam that lures people to invest, and then leaves them with nothing, which is why they are forced to wait for new investors like in all investment scams.. Your writing is just marketing for the bitcoin scam. People are not transferring value through the bitcoin system. That's a lie of the bitcoin marketing. They are transferring records of how many shares in the worthless bitcoin system they have. Stop spreading lies and disinformation.

If you have the audacity to judge what is a „scam“ and what not(while having 0 knowledge of it), then go ahead and give us examples of things that aren’t scams compared to Bitcoin. Im waiting, but i already know you can’t.