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[slaman29]

When running autobet in any other casino, the roll is generated from server seed + client seed + nonce. The server seed is kept the same and nonce changes. Player verify rolls.

In Betpanda, nonce doesn't change. Server seed changes. If player makes 1000 autobets, 999 rolls cannot be verified.


Set your client seed, use autobet to make 10 bets and see for yourself if you can verify 9 of the bets.

I know I'm wearing Betpanda signature so it might seem I'm biased, but allow me to just ask. I'm not a master of how everything works but in my mind, I thought as long as server seed changes, and the seed is hashed before the bet is placed (so server cannot know beforehand), then it is still provably fair. And this is true, before I place bet, server seed is known, and I can change my client seed.

Whether nonce or server seed is changed every roll both also achieves same goal right? Because Server Seed + Client Seed + Nonce = outcome... so if you are changing one of it every roll, the outcome is still unique right?

Sorry if I sound dumb but I always thought this was the case.

BUT you could have a point in autoroll, I'm not sure, since the server can assume your client seed (but if server seed is always changing then still variable is changing?).

I quote the section in Dice that explains nonce:

Code:

Nonce
A counter that increments with each bet, ensuring every round is unique even with the same seeds.

One thing for Betpanda to note though, is that according to your rules, nonce is added in increment to every bet, but in reality, when I bet, nonce does not change. This should not affect provably fair to me, but anyway it should fix the nonce issue.

[doggywin]

When running autobet in any other casino, the roll is generated from server seed + client seed + nonce. The server seed is kept the same and nonce changes. Player verify rolls.

In Betpanda, nonce doesn't change. Server seed changes. If player makes 1000 autobets, 999 rolls cannot be verified.


Set your client seed, use autobet to make 10 bets and see for yourself if you can verify 9 of the bets.

I know I'm wearing Betpanda signature so it might seem I'm biased, but allow me to just ask. I'm not a master of how everything works but in my mind, I thought as long as server seed changes, and the seed is hashed before the bet is placed (so server cannot know beforehand), then it is still provably fair. And this is true, before I place bet, server seed is known, and I can change my client seed.

Whether nonce or server seed is changed every roll both also achieves same goal right? Because Server Seed + Client Seed + Nonce = outcome... so if you are changing one of it every roll, the outcome is still unique right?

Sorry if I sound dumb but I always thought this was the case.

BUT you could have a point in autoroll, I'm not sure, since the server can assume your client seed (but if server seed is always changing then still variable is changing?).

I quote the section in Dice that explains nonce:

Code:

Nonce
A counter that increments with each bet, ensuring every round is unique even with the same seeds.

One thing for Betpanda to note though, is that according to your rules, nonce is added in increment to every bet, but in reality, when I bet, nonce does not change. This should not affect provably fair to me, but anyway it should fix the nonce issue.

This is easy to confuse, that's how cleverly it is made. It is not a bug, Betpanda is not interested in fixing this even after players point it out.

The outcome is unique because server seed changes. Player can't take advantage of it. You are right till that part, except server knows everything. You cannot verify bets anymore other than the first bet of autobet. If it cannot be verified, fairness cannot be proved.

It is not provably fair because:
1. In autobet - client seed once set is fixed and known to the server
2. In autobet - the direction and bet amount is known to the server
3. The server seed is generated by the server itself, and knowing the client seed, direction of the bet, and bet amount, the server can selectively rig the rolls in the original games. When the conditions are met (high bet amount, big multiplier compared to net deposits, and a probability of not skipping like 50% chance keep manipulation subtle) the server can quickly skip the winning server seed and generate another and its hash to send to the player. A 0.1 second lag from this can't be noticed.

Every single casino from big to small ones on the forum that claims provably fair except for Betpanda have a functioning provably fair system.

Betpanda doesn't. They add RTP charts instead to give false assurance to its large player base and keep the rigging subtle.

It is an anonymous casino. Licensed casinos can't pull this off.

[Peanutswar]

As per wake up tried to check the upcoming events and noticed there is a notification in my account, and there is a reward! Thank yo,u betpanda!

What specific promotion is this? I can’t remember anymore their bonus offer but only free spin and cashback is the only bonus that I can get from the casino.

Is this new offer or just random rewards due to your recent betting activity.

As per checking its already quoted in their promotions and its listed in there actually I do reachout the support after getting curious at the same time. Which is base on the support you will get a 10% cashback of the net losses of yours every wednesday so apparently these are the accumulated losses of mine from the previous week so far good because its a net loss the lower net loss the higher profit it is.

[khaled0111]

...

I have to agree with this and I have to say that this is not how a provably fair system is supposed to work. However, I wouldn’t say it’s rigged but rather flawed. Because even in auto-bet mode, you can still stop at any moment, verify the last bet and change the seed pair to ensure the next result won’t be manipulated. I doubt any regular gambler would do so, though and that’s why I said it’s flawed.
Not sure if the BetPanda team are already aware of this and if they are not then I hope they will read your comment and address it.

[doggywin]

...

I have to agree with this and I have to say that this is not how a provably fair system is supposed to work. However, I wouldn’t say it’s rigged but rather flawed. Because even in auto-bet mode, you can still stop at any moment, verify the last bet and change the seed pair to ensure the next result won’t be manipulated. I doubt any regular gambler would do so, though and that’s why I said it’s flawed.
Not sure if the BetPanda team are already aware of this and if they are not then I hope they will read your comment and address it.

If you stop autobet, you can't verify the last bet because the server seed hash you saved before is no longer in use after the first bet. You can only verify the first bet of the autobet.

It is not provably fair at all. Nobody can prove the rolls were not tampered with by the server.

Betpanda keeps the exploit open despite players questioning them.

[memehunter]

Today is the last date for submitting your entries for Betpanda Mutlibet/Parlay Challenge | $100 Prize pool | 4 Places Paid | 10/03.
As of now only 1 entry is there and the total places paid are 4   This makes participation a no brainer. What is even more profitable is that you can submit up to 3 bets for massively boosting your chances.
A big thanks to Betpanda for sponsoring such generous contests.

[slaman29]

I think I understand @doggywin's point now in autoroll and I hope Betpanda can find a way to address this. As I said, I am a supporter of Betpanda, and I still think there is no proof that they rigged anything, but on the other hand Provably Fair must show a way of provably fair even on autoroll. @doggywin do you see a quick fix to this? For example, I am thinking on autoroll, player can set server seed and client seed and this remains, but the nonce changes by increment?

Today is the last date for submitting your entries for Betpanda Mutlibet/Parlay Challenge | $100 Prize pool | 4 Places Paid | 10/03.
As of now only 1 entry is there and the total places paid are 4   This makes participation a no brainer. What is even more profitable is that you can submit up to 3 bets for massively boosting your chances.
A big thanks to Betpanda for sponsoring such generous contests.

I added 2 betslips now BTW how to change odds setting to show decimal? I can't believe I couldn't find it lol

[memehunter]

BTW how to change odds setting to show decimal? I can't believe I couldn't find it lol

Go to sports lobby and scroll down. You will find the settings to change odds display as you like. BTW, which kind of odds display bring more luck 

I added 2 betslips now

Good luck.

[doggywin]

I think I understand @doggywin's point now in autoroll and I hope Betpanda can find a way to address this. As I said, I am a supporter of Betpanda, and I still think there is no proof that they rigged anything, but on the other hand Provably Fair must show a way of provably fair even on autoroll. @doggywin do you see a quick fix to this? For example, I am thinking on autoroll, player can set server seed and client seed and this remains, but the nonce changes by increment?

Yes, that is the fix. Increment nonce like every other dice site and casino. But they won't do it. Their original games were designed for nonce increments, but they modified it (not by accident).

I am not the first person to figure this out. Betpanda is well aware of this. Even if this blows up, they will claim it was just an accident.  The only hard evidence is their server. It is a perfect crime.

[dimonstration]

As per checking its already quoted in their promotions and its listed in there actually I do reachout the support after getting curious at the same time. Which is base on the support you will get a 10% cashback of the net losses of yours every wednesday so apparently these are the accumulated losses of mine from the previous week so far good because its a net loss the lower net loss the higher profit it is.

This is correct and the cashback has a dashboard on the upper left corner of the casino. Usually, it was being distributed during Monday after the countdown ends which is midnight in my time zone.

It’s good to partner it with the extra cashback featured game since either gives additional 5% cashback on your losses that you can immediately get aside from the weekly cashback.

[slaman29]

Go to sports lobby and scroll down. You will find the settings to change odds display as you like. BTW, which kind of odds display bring more luck 

Thanks a lot! I was so sure I looked everywhere on the left but didn't look on the lobby I guess

To be honest I don't like British odds at all, and sometimes helps to see American odds, but decimal is the best, maybe its not so much about luck but about immediately knowing how much I'll get back when I bet!!

Anyway lost both my slips last night, and both thanks to my team (Barca) lol who although didn't lose, but didn't win. Was fun tho

[Shishir99]

If you stop autobet, you can't verify the last bet because the server seed hash you saved before is no longer in use after the first bet. You can only verify the first bet of the autobet.

It is not provably fair at all. Nobody can prove the rolls were not tampered with by the server.

Betpanda keeps the exploit open despite players questioning them.

I thought that the server seed and the client seed always remain the same, and the nonce only changes when the player places the bet. The casinos show the hash of the server seed, and once you change the server seed again, they reveal the actual server seed of the previous round. Then you can verify the bet result using the server seed, client seed, and nonce, isn't this how it's supposed to work?

Please correct me if I am wrong. I think this is how it's supposed to work. We players barely check how the casinos' original games work unless we feel that the game is rigged. I have been lucky on Betpanda and I never felt their game could be rigged.

[mitchr4]

Go to sports lobby and scroll down. You will find the settings to change odds display as you like. BTW, which kind of odds display bring more luck 

Thanks a lot! I was so sure I looked everywhere on the left but didn't look on the lobby I guess

To be honest I don't like British odds at all, and sometimes helps to see American odds, but decimal is the best, maybe its not so much about luck but about immediately knowing how much I'll get back when I bet!!

Anyway lost both my slips last night, and both thanks to my team (Barca) lol who although didn't lose, but didn't win. Was fun tho

I think it's a bit inconvenient to scroll down every time just to change the odds format, especially when playing on mobile. It's even more frustrating because the setting doesn't save automatically. I also noticed there's no option to set a default odds format in the settings, only a few default currency options are available. Personally, reading any odds format other than Decimal European is confusing for me since I'm not familiar with it, and American odds especially takes more time to understand.

[doggywin]

If you stop autobet, you can't verify the last bet because the server seed hash you saved before is no longer in use after the first bet. You can only verify the first bet of the autobet.

It is not provably fair at all. Nobody can prove the rolls were not tampered with by the server.

Betpanda keeps the exploit open despite players questioning them.

I thought that the server seed and the client seed always remain the same, and the nonce only changes when the player places the bet. The casinos show the hash of the server seed, and once you change the server seed again, they reveal the actual server seed of the previous round. Then you can verify the bet result using the server seed, client seed, and nonce, isn't this how it's supposed to work?

Yes, that's how it's supposed to work. Most of the time Betpanda original games keep nonce 0 and change the server seed every bet.

[hd49728]

I think it's a bit inconvenient to scroll down every time just to change the odds format, especially when playing on mobile. It's even more frustrating because the setting doesn't save automatically. I also noticed there's no option to set a default odds format in the settings, only a few default currency options are available. Personally, reading any odds format other than Decimal European is confusing for me since I'm not familiar with it, and American odds especially takes more time to understand.

I really agree with your opinion on this matter and idea of asking for options in your account settings for odds format including default odds format in either European or American decimal style, and choose one of them as a default odds format of an account.

Betpanda has users from many continents and countries who are familiar with different styles so if there are options for people to choose and customize their default odds and its display, it will help them having more convenience when using the casino. Especially it saves time for people who use mobile devices when they want to bet and change odds format.

[Mahdirakib]

Please correct me if I am wrong. I think this is how it's supposed to work. We players barely check how the casinos' original games work unless we feel that the game is rigged. I have been lucky on Betpanda and I never felt their game could be rigged.

We can't say that the in-house games are rigged at Betpanda. But it is questionable as the seed is automatically changing after every bet there. The result is verifiable, still it is unfair system. The seed doesn't change automatically like this in any other casino. Betpanda team can fix this issue within a short time if they want. I hope they will update it soon for the transparency.

[dimonstration]

I think it's a bit inconvenient to scroll down every time just to change the odds format, especially when playing on mobile. It's even more frustrating because the setting doesn't save automatically. I also noticed there's no option to set a default odds format in the settings, only a few default currency options are available. Personally, reading any odds format other than Decimal European is confusing for me since I'm not familiar with it, and American odds especially takes more time to understand.

Hmmm, I remember the odds format when I first open my account was on different odds format which I changed to decimal format which is now my default format.

I don’t remember experiencing changing the odds format repeatedly. This is indeed a headache if the odds format keeps reverting back to the default format set in your account especially the American odds format which I’m not familiar.

Is this problem persist? Maybe notify the support so the technical team will fix this bug.

[slaman29]

I think it's a bit inconvenient to scroll down every time just to change the odds format, especially when playing on mobile. It's even more frustrating because the setting doesn't save automatically. I also noticed there's no option to set a default odds format in the settings, only a few default currency options are available. Personally, reading any odds format other than Decimal European is confusing for me since I'm not familiar with it, and American odds especially takes more time to understand.

I realized this today too, it didn't save and I had to change it and yes it is rather inconvenient. Should be a default mode, I guarantee most players here are not American

I'm same as you, I don't understand American odds straightaway. Like if I see -238, my brain doesn't know how much I will win if I bet $17. British is ok until you see weird odds like 235/319 or something especially on multis.

[Shishir99]

Yes, that's how it's supposed to work. Most of the time Betpanda original games keep nonce 0 and change the server seed every bet.

If this is true, then in games like Dice, Crash, Plinko, Limbo and similar games, they can generate thousands of seeds before and place them to match the client seed to manipulate the result. This way, the result will still remain verifiable, even if the nonce changed, they still know which number will come after this one because nonce follows the sequence. So, the server can choose to give long losing streaks or a loss bet when the bet amount reaches a certain amount. This is very interesting finding. I would love to hear what Betpanda has to say about it.