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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4670028 times)
stslimited
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January 29, 2015, 03:23:42 AM
 #19321

what type of infrastructure?

remittances in the physical world, things that add liquidity to the order books

metadata in transactions to add to the utility of Monero itself
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January 29, 2015, 03:31:39 AM
 #19322

what type of infrastructure?

remittances in the physical world, things that add liquidity to the order books

metadata in transactions to add to the utility of Monero itself

i'm sure you can have a field day with the github. 

what would take a "day", would take only a few hours, with documentation

Hrm, yesh - in my reading of the monero monday missives, this lack of documentation is actually what the monero dev team has been dealing with in order to make monero what it is today (I don't have the whole list on the top of my head, because I came late into the game, but a big one for me and my 2 gig linux box is moving the 5 gig blockchain from memory into a database).

So, somewhere, there is notation. I have no idea where. You probably have to get friendly with the dev team. Again, IRC channel. Just idle in their until you see activity or someone responds.

metadata... an example?

I think something cool to develop would be a lite build of ubuntu you could plop onto a 64 gig jump drive with a built in, user friendly GUI wallet. It would sort of work like a cold wallet - whenever you want to move money into / out of your vault, you have to boot onto your liveUSB, which is probably safer.

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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January 29, 2015, 03:33:27 AM
 #19323

what type of infrastructure?

remittances in the physical world, things that add liquidity to the order books

metadata in transactions to add to the utility of Monero itself

i'm sure you can have a field day with the github. 

what would take a "day", would take only a few hours, with documentation

Hrm, yesh - in my reading of the monero monday missives, this lack of documentation is actually what the monero dev team has been dealing with in order to make monero what it is today (I don't have the whole list on the top of my head, because I came late into the game, but a big one for me and my 2 gig linux box is moving the 5 gig blockchain from memory into a database).

So, somewhere, there is notation. I have no idea where. You probably have to get friendly with the dev team. Again, IRC channel. Just idle in their until you see activity or someone responds.

metadata... an example?

I think something cool to develop would be a lite build of ubuntu you could plop onto a 64 gig jump drive with a built in, user friendly GUI wallet. It would sort of work like a cold wallet - whenever you want to move money into / out of your vault, you have to boot onto your liveUSB, which is probably safer.

Targeting Spanish speaking countries?

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January 29, 2015, 04:23:59 AM
 #19324


metadata... an example?


Metadata like OP_RETURN in bitcoin, where assets ownership changes can be associated with a transaction

much like colored coins or counterparty protocols, except on an opaque blockchain
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January 29, 2015, 04:27:30 AM
 #19325

Again, IRC channel. Just idle in their until you see activity or someone responds.

I do. I've only recently started visiting this thread again more because they don't consistently post missives outside of here on time, I mean, reddit is an afterthought and the title of the IRC channel is as well, they don't consistently talk about the latest database binaries anywhere but here, you wouldn't even have known that there was a consortium of monero research lab people if you didn't come here and follow a clusterfuck bitcointalk thread

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January 29, 2015, 07:49:59 AM
 #19326

Again, IRC channel. Just idle in their until you see activity or someone responds.

I do. I've only recently started visiting this thread again more because they don't consistently post missives outside of here on time, I mean, reddit is an afterthought and the title of the IRC channel is as well, they don't consistently talk about the latest database binaries anywhere but here, you wouldn't even have known that there was a consortium of monero research lab people if you didn't come here and follow a clusterfuck bitcointalk thread



Something time friendly that could be splashed through between watching tv or ploughed down in a couple hours? Like this?

www.futurism.co/bitcoin-weekly/

Though I'm a bigger fan when it was sutura and the articles were more easily gathered if you wanted a quick read through. I would think Monero couldn't support 4, but if you included I2P updates and a general article on privacy or innovation you could easily get enough to make it email worthy.

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January 29, 2015, 07:55:36 AM
 #19327

I have question for Monero devs. Or anyone with knowledge I guess.

Do you follow the Bitcoin "hardfork" debate?
Maybe it's just drama but I think it's quite worrying that there is no consensus.

Will we find ourselves in a similar situation with Monero in a couple of years? I guess there is a hard limit on block size now.
Is it big enough to support a large network? If not will a change require a hardfork?




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January 29, 2015, 07:56:40 AM
 #19328

I have question for Monero devs. Or anyone with knowledge I guess.

Do you follow the Bitcoin "hardfork" debate?
Maybe it's just drama but I think it's quite worrying that there is no consensus.

Will we find ourselves in a similar situation with Monero in a couple of years? I guess there is a hard limit on block size now.
Is it big enough to support a large network? If not will a change require a hardfork?


There is no block size limit in XMR.

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
smooth
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January 29, 2015, 07:59:10 AM
 #19329

I have question for Monero devs. Or anyone with knowledge I guess.

Do you follow the Bitcoin "hardfork" debate?
Maybe it's just drama but I think it's quite worrying that there is no consensus.

Will we find ourselves in a similar situation with Monero in a couple of years? I guess there is a hard limit on block size now.
Is it big enough to support a large network? If not will a change require a hardfork?


There is no block size limit in XMR.

Correct, but other hard fork issues could certainly turn political. We recently had a months long discussion about changing the emission schedule, and I wouldn't rule out other such disagreements in the future.

A hard protocol-imposed block size and capacity limit is one thing we don't have to worry about.


forevernoob
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January 29, 2015, 08:12:51 AM
 #19330

I have question for Monero devs. Or anyone with knowledge I guess.

Do you follow the Bitcoin "hardfork" debate?
Maybe it's just drama but I think it's quite worrying that there is no consensus.

Will we find ourselves in a similar situation with Monero in a couple of years? I guess there is a hard limit on block size now.
Is it big enough to support a large network? If not will a change require a hardfork?


There is no block size limit in XMR.

Correct, but other hard fork issues could certainly turn political. We recently had a months long discussion about changing the emission schedule, and I wouldn't rule out other such disagreements in the future.

A hard protocol-imposed block size and capacity limit is one thing we don't have to worry about.




Ok good to know, I do think emission issues are easier to understand. I personally favor as low inflation as possible. If a hard fork was made that increased the inflation I would just stop using XMR.
The Bitcoin block size issue is just harder for me to comprehend. Not sure what I would do if a hard fork really happened.

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January 29, 2015, 08:16:28 AM
 #19331

I have question for Monero devs. Or anyone with knowledge I guess.

Do you follow the Bitcoin "hardfork" debate?
Maybe it's just drama but I think it's quite worrying that there is no consensus.

Will we find ourselves in a similar situation with Monero in a couple of years? I guess there is a hard limit on block size now.
Is it big enough to support a large network? If not will a change require a hardfork?


There is no block size limit in XMR.

Correct, but other hard fork issues could certainly turn political. We recently had a months long discussion about changing the emission schedule, and I wouldn't rule out other such disagreements in the future.

A hard protocol-imposed block size and capacity limit is one thing we don't have to worry about.




Ok good to know, I do think emission issues are easier to understand. I personally favor as low inflation as possible. If a hard fork was made that increased the inflation I would just stop using XMR.

The discussion wasn't about changing the total supply or overall inflation, but about whether to have more inflation now and less later or vice versa. In any case, no such changes are being considered any more.

Quote
The Bitcoin block size issue is just harder for me to comprehend. Not sure what I would do if a hard fork really happened.

You are not alone. I don't think anyone knows what is going to happen.


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January 29, 2015, 09:37:32 AM
Last edit: January 29, 2015, 10:20:03 AM by rpietila
 #19332

I personally favor as low inflation as possible. If a hard fork was made that increased the inflation I would just stop using XMR.

At start, XMR's annualized inflation was infinite (everything else would have been a premine).

Then the inflation was very high, 1000s or 100s of % annualized, going down all the time as both the #_of_new_coins was going down (numerator) and #_of_existing_coins was going up (denominator).

The whole of last year, there was talk of normalizing the inflation so that the percentage would be more equal instead of being sky-high in the beginning, and quickly dropping and tending to 0.9%, the yearly minimum.

The plan was dropped after an unanimous vote in the MEW.

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January 29, 2015, 12:29:47 PM
Last edit: January 29, 2015, 12:42:40 PM by GingerAle
 #19333


metadata... an example?


Metadata like OP_RETURN in bitcoin, where assets ownership changes can be associated with a transaction

much like colored coins or counterparty protocols, except on an opaque blockchain

I don't really understand what the purpose of this would be in an opaque blockchain. You could check the blockchain to confirm that... stealth address XXYY owns that thing?

I guess if you used the view key you could let others know about the colored coin, then it serves the same purpose. Yeah. Private ownership. Would be cool.

Dunno what to tell you though re: devs and documentation and no fancy news reports. I think the "problem" with monero is that its no ones full time job, because there was no pre-mine (so no one entity is hoarding 95% of available coins or whatever), and the coinage doesn't have crazy valuation right now.  Its a chicken and the egg problem. Random people would put more time into developing it to make the currency more useful if it was worth more, and it would be worth more if people could do more with it.

But I'm just using that old timey thing known as patience, and trying to debug whatever I can if I can manage to build any of the development branches.

edited to add: I don't really have a full grasp of what goes on with monero, so take my opinions with a grain of salt. For instance, I just came across the monero support thread. so..... yeah.

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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January 29, 2015, 01:12:53 PM
 #19334

The emission debate was about lowering emission vs keeping the emission the same.  Raising the emission was never discussed and will never be discussed.

I have question for Monero devs. Or anyone with knowledge I guess.

Do you follow the Bitcoin "hardfork" debate?
Maybe it's just drama but I think it's quite worrying that there is no consensus.

Will we find ourselves in a similar situation with Monero in a couple of years? I guess there is a hard limit on block size now.
Is it big enough to support a large network? If not will a change require a hardfork?


There is no block size limit in XMR.

Correct, but other hard fork issues could certainly turn political. We recently had a months long discussion about changing the emission schedule, and I wouldn't rule out other such disagreements in the future.

A hard protocol-imposed block size and capacity limit is one thing we don't have to worry about.




Ok good to know, I do think emission issues are easier to understand. I personally favor as low inflation as possible. If a hard fork was made that increased the inflation I would just stop using XMR.
The Bitcoin block size issue is just harder for me to comprehend. Not sure what I would do if a hard fork really happened.

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January 29, 2015, 01:26:50 PM
 #19335

32bit monero wallet i can build from sources would be awesome, i could use my old laptop with 32bit linux i have just for wallets.
can i count on using this in couple of weeks?
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January 29, 2015, 01:55:08 PM
 #19336

32bit monero wallet i can build from sources would be awesome, i could use my old laptop with 32bit linux i have just for wallets.
can i count on using this in couple of weeks?

Yeah i wanted to ask this yesterday. Thanks for reminding it to me! Can simplewallet run on 32bit linux?
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January 29, 2015, 02:30:16 PM
 #19337

32bit monero wallet i can build from sources would be awesome, i could use my old laptop with 32bit linux i have just for wallets.
can i count on using this in couple of weeks?

Yeah i wanted to ask this yesterday. Thanks for reminding it to me! Can simplewallet run on 32bit linux?

according to this
http://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/2ay9lu/where_are_32bit_wallets/

from a while ago, the build script should work on 32 bit.

I would try the standard script found here first:
http://www.monero.cc/getting-started/index.html


< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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January 29, 2015, 02:40:01 PM
 #19338

moneroblocks.eu guy: (i forget who you were, and don't feel like digging through this thread):

Do you have any other plans for moneroblocks.eu?

I think it'd be awesome if you could essentially clone all of the stuff thats provided on blockchain.info for the bitcoin network.

specifically, I think it'd be awesome to have a list of active peers. or the globe representation of that would be even awesomer. The command line always gives me just an unusable list that bleeds off of my screen and its all "last active" at some point forever ago.

I'll throw 5 xmr your way to make this happen.

I just think it'd be great to see the actual depth of the network. I know there is a boatload of hash, but how many copies of the ledger are out there?

And this should reaallly be integrated into mymonero as a tab or something. I.e., how secure are my transactions if I work with monero? Oh great, here is everything on this fancy web wallet.

even cooler if this stuff is in the GUI. God I can't wait to see that. Seriously, anybody got anything I can debug (that I can actually build? dependencies are a pain if your a guy who just broke the habit of trying to ctrl+c to copy code from terminal)

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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January 29, 2015, 03:03:01 PM
Last edit: January 30, 2015, 10:04:39 AM by David Latapie
 #19339

Hello all I am new to XMR...what is your guys vision for this coin?
(update1: added to my blog on xmrmonero)
(update2: published on reddit, already 12 upvotes)


Welcome!

Short (and necessary incomplete) answer: true electronic cash

Long answer:
First why Monero is serious: Why Monero matters?/Prove me that Monero is not yet-another-shitcoin.

You asked about the vision, though. So, I'd say that the three pillars of Monero are privacy, decentralization and scalability.
Now what does it means?

Security
Monero is true electronic cash. With Monero, you can know that a transaction occured, but not whence, how much and whither, whilst it is getting increasingly easy to trace Bitcoin (mixer, tumbler... or not). See this illustration on how it positions compared to Bitcoin and this animation on how it works. Monero is a cryptocurrency that is based on the CryptoNote protocol and reference code, and that seeks to provide absolute transactional privacy (fluffypony).

But Monero is more than a currency. Its official slogan is "secure, private, untraceable" for a reason. Other transactions than the monetary ones benefit from it. You may not want anyone to know you signed this contract. You may not want the forthcoming blockchain-powered internet of thing cloud around you to be accessible by anyone, and this requires an opaque blockchain, that Monero provides.

We hired academic cryptographers to review and improve the security of Monero and started an external audit as well. Even Bitcoin developpers and independant cryptographers (Andrew Poelstra/andytoshi, Gregory Maxwell, Nicolas Courtois) speak high of Monero and Cryptonote.

Finally, security is a chain as strong as its weakest link. What is privacy of the transaction worth if your IP is revealed? This is why we are teaming up with Privacy Solutions to have an i2p router implemented in Monero. IP obfuscation, amount obfuscation (only 1.17262001 XMR was actually sent here), recipient obfuscation, sender obfuscation.

May I remind everyone that privacy is more than drugs and illegality? Are you ready to give everyone (EVERYONE) read access to your bank account? Would your like your ex-wife, your son, your boss, your neigbour or (particularly if you are a company) your competitor to know how much money you have, where it comes from and what you doing with it, forever (and no, multiples addresses or mixers or tumblers just don't work)? Would you like your landlord to know that you just got some money, so s/he can raise the rent? Privacy is also making it possible for journalists fighting for the freedom of press to do their jobs when there are in a dictatorial (or not-so-dictatorial) country. This is also about not being incriminated because your money was tainted (two transactions before, it went from drug dealing, for instance).Countless studies showed that people behave differently when they know they might be watched.

As tacotime (a core team member) said back in April, when Monero was only one week old, Fuck the pump and dumps, we're here to create something with value that people can use.

Decentralization
Despite being decentralised at heart, cryptocurrencies are increasingly centralised. Webwallets, exchanges, pool mining and cloud mining, centralised seedings or masternodes... All of this is susceptible to attacks (both technical or legal - remember that "legal" doesn't necessarily means "legitimate"). Whilst Monero is decentralised mixing.

By contrast, we are trying hard to keep Monero decentralised. Our domain names for the most parts are meant to be resistant to such attacks (gun.io on choosing domain names and registrars). The core team is composed of both public faces (myself and Riccardo Spagni/fluffypony) and private faces (the other core team members) located on various continents with widely different timezones, making sure that core devs are avaialble 24/7. This extends to technology too. When implementing something, we keep in mind how it will affect decentralisation. And we recently released the first Monero torrent.

The smart mining forthcoming feature will allow transparent CPU mining on your own computer, far from the de facto centralisation of mining farms and pool mining. We intend to pursue Satoshi's original vision of a true p2p currency. "Get millions of users doing that and it will drive down the value of mining to where neither botnets nor professional/industrial miners will bother, and Satoshi's original vision of a true p2p currency will be realized." (smooth).

Scalability

Monero is meant to stay. Long. This means it must be able to be adopted by anyone, that anyone can use it. Open-source is a given and smart mining participates of it too. But beyond this, we chose a currency code a.ka. ticker symbol (XMR) that adheres to the international monetary standard ISO 4217. We are doing our best to follow technological best practices. Recently, we worked with Kitware to have our Cmake tool adhere to the best practices and we will soon transition to semantic versioning (semver.org). Similarly, the block time, mixin count... are designed (and sometimes redesigned) with long-term scalability in mind.

More importantly maybe, Monero doesn't suffer from some of the inherent flaws of many orther cryptocurrencies. Monero is fair-launched and doesn't have a 1 MB blocksize which limits the ultimate amount of transaction per day. Today, it doesn't matter much, but tomorrow when Monero will be much more popular, this will be instrumental in ensuring that Monero can continue to grow - this is the whole point of scalability: it may not matter today, but it does for tomorrow when it will be so hard to change it.

The same consideration are given to the emission curve. We believe (and we are not the only ones), that relying only on transaction fees won't be enough of an incentive for miners (remember: the core of the blockchain is to rely on an economic incentive, because it is not possible to solve the Byzantine Generals' problem with math alone). This is why Monero implements a "tail emission" that will kick off once the main emission is over, in less than eight years.

Scalability is not only about technology. It also about making sure that everyone gets their side of the bargain or else it will be rejected. That's why Monero is also optionally transparent. This means that, on a completely voluntary basis, one can give read access to someone else. Quoting fluffypony on reddit: "A view key can be used to reveal all transactions for an account. This means that companies could still be audited, charities could make their accounts publicly visible, and parents could see what their kids are spending the money on. Additionally, details of a transaction can be revealed via a similar mechanism on a per-transaction basis."

This is also to increase legitimacy that the Monero Economy Workgroup (disclaimer: I am an executive of the MEW) was created (what is MEW? - join MEW). The MEW takes decision (that, granted, the core team is not bound to accept, but refusing a widely adopted decision would cause turmoil) and since the MEW is meant to represent the will of most holders, it will increase legitimacy: something decided by the MEW is something most holders are willing to do. The debate on the emission curve is a perfect example: the MEW unanimously decided to not change the emission curve, and confidence went back immediately. Consistent confidence is part of scalability.



Security, decentralization, scalability. These are the three pillars of Monero. The vision of Monero is to be future-proof and I hope this long reply answered your questions.

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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January 29, 2015, 04:02:27 PM
 #19340

More projects needed.
It's the rite time to start, and that start have to be rapid.

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