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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4531336 times)
GingerAle
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February 22, 2015, 04:15:40 PM
 #20201

Do we have an agreement that price rise is beneficial for Monero at large?


I mean - it's not difficult to let the price rise. We just end price suppression and let it be marketed, right?

It is a different thing if we are talking big money. But now, the next 12 months, we are talking about ~$1 million total. I sell my castle and buy every single monero that is mined over the next 365 days. Why are we speculating about a thing that's essentially a decision?

There are developments that may be lifting the price a big percentage, and they may have already started, or happen in 1-2 months.

Is that what we want?

In my opinion the healthiest thing for monero would be a consistent rise. This would enable people to get in while its still easy (increased distribution, a true market) but also give them confidence in the market, and also provide incentive for development. Bounties seemed to be flying around a lot more when XMR was worth more. (based on my historical digging of threads - I obviously wasn't around then)

I don't know what that consistent rise looks like (magic numbers), but the gold standard for the chalked up numbers of world economies always seems to hover around 3% annually.  

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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generalizethis
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February 22, 2015, 05:06:07 PM
 #20202

Do we have an agreement that price rise is beneficial for Monero at large?



Is that what we want?

Can only speak for myself, but yes. Not really psyched about the drama a bigger market will bring, but it also is a good way to sell at irrational dips for later rebuys, so my strategy of accumulation might actually benefit, which means more moneroj in percentage and price--not a bad trade off for drama.

Also, I think the core-devs and devs with side projects could use the increase in funds for their projects.

So what are the drawbacks beside an increase in short-term/fragile investors?


forevernoob
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February 22, 2015, 05:07:24 PM
 #20203

I'm running the Linux binaries now and bitmonerod crashes after awhile. (1 -2 days typically)
I tried compiling it myself but when I run the binary it just crashes with "Segmentation fault".

Maybe this will get better when the DB is released. Is their an instruction somewhere on how to download and compile with DB support?


rpietila
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February 22, 2015, 05:14:26 PM
 #20204

consistent rise ... around 3% annually.  

The highest stable annual growth is possibly around 6-8%. If the internal growth rate of the thing is higher, it turns speculative because people start to discount the future excess returns in the present price (discounting). This means that the price is valued higher, and this revaluation of the price itself means that the annual return becomes far in excess of 6-8%, inviting more capital etc. A bubble is formed, taking the price to highs not supported by the fundamentals, which allows for the crash to find the new, more stable levels.

Imo, it is impossible to prevent this turbulent growth from happening if the growth of the economy is higher than the threshold level. So, we will always have booms until the cryptoEconomy growth rate slows to 3%.
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February 22, 2015, 05:20:15 PM
 #20205

Do we have an agreement that price rise is beneficial for Monero at large?

Is that what we want?

Rethorical question? If you really ask: yes! A big yes. We need to grow price-wise to bring more brains, ressources, efforts and time to build the Monero-enabled world.

Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
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February 22, 2015, 05:35:35 PM
 #20206

Do we have an agreement that price rise is beneficial for Monero at large?


I mean - it's not difficult to let the price rise. We just end price suppression and let it be marketed, right?

It is a different thing if we are talking big money. But now, the next 12 months, we are talking about ~$1 million total. I sell my castle and buy every single monero that is mined over the next 365 days. Why are we speculating about a thing that's essentially a decision?

There are developments that may be lifting the price a big percentage, and they may have already started, or happen in 1-2 months.

Is that what we want?

keep your castle mate

that said, higher prices are better than lower prices. the cheap coin argument is always problematic due to humans psychology. these projects (also btc) are not fully transparent regarding development and state of regulation, therefore people show institutional behaviour and trust in the opinion of the market.

but I think this stuff is better known by you than by me Wink
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February 22, 2015, 05:55:46 PM
 #20207

once tomorrow's Missive is out (I'll be sure to put it out in the morning so nobody has to wait;)

Hooray! In case some of you missed this - Missive tomorrow!! Start the buying.


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February 22, 2015, 05:56:50 PM
Last edit: February 22, 2015, 06:07:34 PM by GingerAle
 #20208

I'm running the Linux binaries now and bitmonerod crashes after awhile. (1 -2 days typically)
I tried compiling it myself but when I run the binary it just crashes with "Segmentation fault".

Maybe this will get better when the DB is released. Is their an instruction somewhere on how to download and compile with DB support?



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg9934242#msg9934242

if u used this:

Code:
cd ~ && rm -f install_monero.sh && wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Quanttek/install_monero/master/install_monero.sh && bash install_monero.sh

to compile, then u have most of the dependencies needed for DB.

If u have wallet files, back them up!!! i rename the main directory too.

To install DB, use this.

Code:
sudo apt-get install libunbound-dev liblmdb-dev && mkdir -p ~/bitmonero-testing && cd ~/bitmonero-testing && rm -rf bitmonero && git clone https://github.com/tewinget/bitmonero.git --branch blockchain --depth 1

That installs LMDB and pulls tewingets latest version of LMDB build.

U can follow the instructions to convert ure existing blockchain, or just sync from 0 (the network will love u), or try the one I uploaded a bit ago.

https://mega.co.nz/#!VM1DTZpC!4Ak4SlPiAAmwG01Hv28clghn_ouAwIhPRaEEg39-24s

put that into .bitmonero
it can live happily along the regular build data

blockchains can be OS specific. The one posted above is debian. (ubuntu)

use at ure own risk!!!!!

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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February 22, 2015, 07:06:58 PM
 #20209

Do we have an agreement that price rise is beneficial for Monero at large?


I mean - it's not difficult to let the price rise. We just end price suppression and let it be marketed, right?

It is a different thing if we are talking big money. But now, the next 12 months, we are talking about ~$1 million total. I sell my castle and buy every single monero that is mined over the next 365 days. Why are we speculating about a thing that's essentially a decision?

There are developments that may be lifting the price a big percentage, and they may have already started, or happen in 1-2 months.

Is that what we want?

No way rpietila, I hope you not serious about selling your stuff, you single hand contributed a lot to this project already, I think low prices are good for adoption while the inflation is still high, It would be good if we did not breach 0.0009 tho so noone could get a disproportionate ammount of coins.
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February 22, 2015, 07:24:18 PM
Last edit: February 22, 2015, 08:56:02 PM by celestio
 #20210

Any of the below things are extremely helpful for Monero, or any cryto for that matter(They are in no particular order).

1) Have a stable, smooth, GUI
2) Have a sleek, attractive website (Does not have to be "perfect" at the beginning, just stylish and gets through the main points with further detailed things coming later, focus on the average person initially!)
3) Have a sleek, attractive forum(Hosted on a seperate full domain is a +)
4) Have donation counters set up on the official website for future goals(and on the forum as well)
5) Have a initial, "beginning", market, I don't support Darknetmarkets, but none can argue that they can create a stable base
6) Market monero, create signature compaigns for it to get accepted at stores worldwide, stress the point that it allows for both anonymous and transparent transactions
7) Enjoy as monero reaches new heights


I believe those 7 things are essential to a currency that wishes to dare I say, compete with Bitcoin. And so far, I haven't seen another currency that focuses on the things that appeal to the average person, privacy And transparency(I believe either one by themselves are worthless, as you need to be broad to be a currency and get accepted).


"The nature of Bitcoin is such that once version 0.1 was released, the core design was set in stone for the rest of its lifetime" - Satoshi Nakamoto, June 17, 2010
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February 22, 2015, 08:14:19 PM
 #20211

once tomorrow's Missive is out (I'll be sure to put it out in the morning so nobody has to wait;)

Hooray! In case some of you missed this - Missive tomorrow!! Start the buying.



I have to admit I totally missed this Cheesy

Please apologize this X-post. I wrote the following text for a different, specialized Monero thread and have now decided: I want to post it here again. Everybody active in the Monero project or other new/interested people can read it here.

#####

DRK is no real, ultimate competitor. The Monero Project has a certain future (there is enough demand and  Monero offers significant benefits for legal usage/users). Monero has a solid chance (best-case-scenario) to become one of the leading, widely-used and supported Crypto Currency, even if it won't become the leading trading-coin on the Dark Net.

Two things are important:
- don't concentrate all your posts, thoughts, involvement about becoming sick rich (with XMR), like Bitcoin Early Adopters (this creates bad atmosphere and work attitude)

- Monero is about building our new, own ecosystem and with all the related-services, 1.) the basic ones we need, to create a healthy, vivid coin, that has a real chance to survive organically and the 2.) the services & use-cases we like to have (and maybe miss elsewhere)

- i suggest establishing the idea: of turning around this disadvantage, of not being able to use the hole developed & estab. Bitcoin-Infrastructure & -software, into an potential/strength: we have the chance to build an Crypto Currency ecosystem from scratch, exact the way we want and need it, free from historic boundaries & rules, with the help and usage of todays: technology, knowledge and practical experience with other CCs

- we can and should learn from all the problems, questionable developments and judged with todays knowledge bad/not ideal design decision in Bitcoin and we should do it
- to have a coin and ecosystem that has a chance of long-term usage and success, for us self [increasing our satisfaction & added value by contributing to Monero] and for all the future users that we want and need, so the project and currency reaches usage numbers and the public status, it needs to: just stay alive, stay fair and economically wise to use (long term)
- so it can evolve and improve and hopefully be successful

- Another essential fact to note: we have to work and create a currency, community and ecosystem that is independent from Dark Web-usage, focussing on easy usage and handling for all users (not only standard end-users, also other E-Commerce relevant players: like merchants, power users with certain requirements, vendors, site owners, media, ...).
Once we have build this privacy-centric coin, we should inform the interested/relevant general public outside of the Crypto scene about Monero, to attract many "real-world users", to use Monero because of it's features and (unique) benefits.

- there is no value in: "faking" E-Commerce, when we as XMR community send around coins back and forth for stupid services & random gimmicks or [like other failed coins] thinking, some illegal online gambling sites with XMR will be enough to create an solid ecosystems

We need to work hard and persistent to create this first small real, legit XMR E-Commerce.
We need these non-tech/non-crypto people for feedback to improve XMR clients, apis, services and processes.
If we can get there and we have: real users, the software solutions (where people understand and are happy to use Mult-Sig-TXs e.g. for escrow), honestly earned trust from the media, tech community & co and we as community have shown we really help and support XMR professional early adopters,
THEN: Dark Web-adoption will come and if XMR really adds benefits for Dark Web-trading, it may become the dominant, leading privacy-coin (with the expected big growth in price)

I read alot of posts talking about "DRK vs XMR battle", "supposed advantages DRK has over XMR, so DRK will be the leading dark web coin and everyone supporting Monero is stupid", "Monero ain't interesting to hold/trade, there is no price development, no price pump I can participate ...." coming from generally bad (informed) posters, non technical alt-coin-community and or newbs, with newly regged accounts and childish behavior.
These people are wrong. The Monero project and community is way more & multifaceted and honestly intrinsic motivated. All the people in the XMR community I talked with, really believed in and lived after the principals and ideas Monero represents.
We don't have actors (like alot of other projects), just pseudo-participating a bit to get rich. People support Monero, because they really support the conception and ideas & values behind it, the innovative technology used, the open & democratic development process and the higher-than-average  friendly, intelligent, pleasant & pro-active community.

---> don't let these bullshit thoughts get into your brain Smiley and tell these posters they are wrong


That's all I had on my mind and wanted to say. Thank you.

Great post and a very nice read! Keep up the good work.

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
rpietila
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February 22, 2015, 08:26:42 PM
 #20212

No way rpietila, I hope you not serious about selling your stuff, you single hand contributed a lot to this project already, I think low prices are good for adoption while the inflation is still high, It would be good if we did not breach 0.0009 tho so noone could get a disproportionate ammount of coins.

So after your opinion, we have at least 1 who thinks that low prices are beneficial, but the majority thinks they would better rise.

I think it's quite easy to deduce that 0.0009 cannot be breached as long as everything is on track.

If, on the other hand, we have a potential explosive upside, and almost no downside unless the tech breaks, then....


...the only ones selling are the dumb miners. And that's what is happening!

As I see it, the rise can be contained exactly as long as there are no determined buyers. Even 1 buyer that demands to buy regardless of price, can totally ignite the uptrend. Imo $100k is enough to put us to BTC0.004.

I have $100k. My question was whether it's better to be there than here.  Smiley
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February 22, 2015, 08:45:59 PM
 #20213

No way rpietila, I hope you not serious about selling your stuff, you single hand contributed a lot to this project already, I think low prices are good for adoption while the inflation is still high, It would be good if we did not breach 0.0009 tho so noone could get a disproportionate ammount of coins.

So after your opinion, we have at least 1 who thinks that low prices are beneficial, but the majority thinks they would better rise.

I think it's quite easy to deduce that 0.0009 cannot be breached as long as everything is on track.

If, on the other hand, we have a potential explosive upside, and almost no downside unless the tech breaks, then....


...the only ones selling are the dumb miners. And that's what is happening!

As I see it, the rise can be contained exactly as long as there are no determined buyers. Even 1 buyer that demands to buy regardless of price, can totally ignite the uptrend. Imo $100k is enough to put us to BTC0.004.

I have $100k. My question was whether it's better to be there than here.  Smiley

I vote for here!

Jump you fuckers! | The thing about smart motherfuckers is they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers. | My sig space for rent for 25 btc per week.
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February 22, 2015, 08:51:42 PM
 #20214

Price should not be raised (to) big. Alot of projects have problems with over-rich, lazy, nothing contributing, innovation-blocking early adopters.

They harm the projects in multiple obvious ways. I don't even need to name them. Everyone with open eyes and mind sees them.

I think optimizing the economics and financial stats (like price) - that have big influence of XMRs (real usage) functions of money - should wait till the software and ecosystem development is more advanced. And the coin enters a stage were real-world, organic XMR E-Commerce/usage is possible and reasonable to try.

The tech, software and ecosystem must be (nearly) ready, before we can try to shape the financials in the best way for sustainability & long-term success.

I don't think Monero misses out on intelligent talent and possible good contributors, because of it's current price/price-development.
It keeps away the loud & toxic part of altcoiners, who are today often immoral, greedy, non technical oriented and not even short term interested in the coins they buy, pump some time & dump away. All they care about is their personal $$$$$ gain.

We firstly need (people who want) to build the best privacy-centric crypto-currency, to attract & keep end-users, skilled contributers, investors, press & co. This is way better then try to growth by optimizing the price development charts to attract interest.

We should only react and do something, when we clearly notice the project and it's organic adoption is explicit harmed - by whatever characteristic financial numbers/developments - and would benefit from coordinated project-wide efforts, to improve the problematic numbers.

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February 22, 2015, 08:54:24 PM
 #20215

Price should not be raised (to) big. Alot of projects have problems with over-rich, lazy, nothing contributing, innovation-blocking early adopters.

They harm the projects in multiple obvious ways. I don't even need to name them. Everyone with open eyes and mind sees them.

I think optimizing the economics and financial stats (like price) - that have big influence of XMRs (real usage) functions of money - when the software and ecosystem development is more advanced and the coin enters a stage were real-world, organic XMR E-Commerce/usage is possible and reasonable to try.

The tech, software and ecosystem must be (nearly) ready, before we can try to shape the financials in the best way for sustainability & long-term success.

I don't think Monero misses out on intelligent talent and possible good contributors, because of it's current price/price-development.
It keeps away the loud & toxic part of altcoiners, who are today often immoral, greedy, non technical oriented and not even short term interested in the coins they buy, pump some time & dump away. All they care about is their personal $$$$$ gain.

We firstly need (people who want) to build the best privacy-centric crypto-currency, to attract & keep end-users, skilled contributers, investors, press & co. This is way better then try to growth by optimizing the price development charts to attract interest.

We should only react and do something, when we clearly notice the project and it's organic adoption is explicit harmed - by whatever characteristic financial numbers/developments - and would benefit from coordinated project-wide efforts, to improve the problematic numbers.



So you wanto to keep price low and closed to the masses until everything is in place and then it can rise? How much will you be bag holding when that day comes? I am sensing greed.

Jump you fuckers! | The thing about smart motherfuckers is they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers. | My sig space for rent for 25 btc per week.
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February 22, 2015, 09:17:26 PM
 #20216



I don't think Monero misses out on intelligent talent and possible good contributors, because of it's current price/price-development.
It keeps away the loud & toxic part of altcoiners, who are today often immoral, greedy, non technical oriented and not even short term interested in the coins they buy, pump some time & dump away. All they care about is their personal $$$$$ gain.


this part is interesting. I've often pondered what keeps our side of bitcointalk relatively troll-free (save for the occasional one or two that hops the fence). I've read some other threads, and whoa. Perhaps it is the price trend that does it? No idea. What also fascinates me is the abject monero hatred out in bitcointalk. I've offered monero as a solution to the traceability problem and all I get it "shitcoin" or "that algo is dead" with no constructive criticism.

I dunno. If I had 100k that I was deciding what to do with and wanted to do something pro-monero, I'd buy everyone in the monero community a GTX 980, or whatever the most efficient GPU is. Operation megahash. Majority of folks would prolly use a pool, so some portion would make its way back to core devs. Would secure both the network and the market (greater percentage of miners not dumping)

Or add liquidity to other monero exchange markets (bittrex). Someone mentioned that in bitcoins history, when the major exchange went down things weren't good.


< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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February 22, 2015, 09:20:44 PM
Last edit: February 22, 2015, 09:37:14 PM by dewdeded
 #20217

So you wanto to keep price low and closed to the masses until everything is in place and then it can rise?
Yes, I think this is best decision and the current project strategy anyway.
(All other) Classic project marketing efforts and promotion is also scheduled to start, when Monero is ready to use.

Professional marketing, towards the important targeted customer groups, all relevant market participants or the general public, should start when you have build a good, convincing product (that is fully developed, easy to use and easy to get).
To build an good & demanded product, is the best marketing strategy & instrument to have.

Advertising something that isn't avaible (with the promoted features & benefits) is bad for two reasons:
- people will have forgotten about your project and your great marketing campaign, once your software is finally ready, the marketing efforts will turn out be useless or an 99% wastement of ressources (also if u do promotion earlier, you have no increased intrest spike on your release day -> no users, way less users versus an scenario, where the software would have been ready to use, at the time the marketing messages were received at customer side)

- something marketed being not avaible or offering buggy products creates a bad project image and hinder adoption & community development
- most people, esp. Early Adopters just shortly test an new project, if its buggy and not well-engineered for its proposed use case, they will come to the decision that the projects and its software sucks (most of them keep this bad judgement forever and will also communicate it to others)


Once again: To have the best product, is the very, very best marketing.
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February 22, 2015, 09:32:19 PM
 #20218

So you wanto to keep price low and closed to the masses until everything is in place and then it can rise?
Yes, I think this is best decision and the current project strategy anyway.
(All other) Classic project marketing efforts and promotion is also scheduled to start, when Monero is ready to use.
Professional marketing towards the important targeted customer groups, all relevant market participant or the general public should start when you have build a good, convincing product (that is fully developed, east to use and easily avaible).
To build an good & demanded product, is the best marketing strategy & instrument to have.

Advertising something that isn't avaible (with the promoted features & benefits) is bad for two reasons:
- people will have forgotten about your project and your great marketing campaign, once your software is finally ready, the marketing efforts will turn out be useless or an 99% wastement of ressources

- something marketed being not avaible or offering buggy products creates a bad project image and hinder adoption & community development
- most people, esp. Early Adopters just shortly test an new project, if its buggy and not well-engineered for its proposed use case, they will come to the decision that the projects and its software sucks (most of them keep this bad judgement forever and will also communicate it to others)


Once again: To have the best product, is the very, very best marketing.

Then using your logic none of us should know about XMR unless we are on the inside. I do not pretend to be an expert but I do recognize an opportunity. That is why I am investing. I am in on the ground floor and I welcome everyone to buy in and push the price higher. I promote that. I want the market cap and economy to grow. We need XMR to get to a point where no one person can control the price swings unless they are a multimillionaire who is obsessed with it.

I do mine it 24/7 but it is not profitable. I do it with hope that some day it will make what I have done today extremely profitable. I want others, thousands, if not millions of others to do the same.

Jump you fuckers! | The thing about smart motherfuckers is they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers. | My sig space for rent for 25 btc per week.
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February 22, 2015, 09:34:59 PM
 #20219

I agree upto the point that I believe the completion of the, GUI, database, is what's needed to begin trly expanding(marketing) upon Monero. The website doesnt need to be "perfect", just the bare minimum and stylish(articles, in depth guides, etc can all be added later. Anyone remember Bitcoin.org years back?), and the forum should have its own domain name.

EDIT: However, we should still, always work to get more people into the coin, never try and hide anything as that would look very bad later on. (Bytecoin, hello?)

"The nature of Bitcoin is such that once version 0.1 was released, the core design was set in stone for the rest of its lifetime" - Satoshi Nakamoto, June 17, 2010
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February 22, 2015, 09:36:50 PM
 #20220

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg9934242#msg9934242

if u used this:

Code:
cd ~ && rm -f install_monero.sh && wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Quanttek/install_monero/master/install_monero.sh && bash install_monero.sh

to compile, then u have most of the dependencies needed for DB.

If u have wallet files, back them up!!! i rename the main directory too.

To install DB, use this.

Code:
sudo apt-get install libunbound-dev liblmdb-dev && mkdir -p ~/bitmonero-testing && cd ~/bitmonero-testing && rm -rf bitmonero && git clone https://github.com/tewinget/bitmonero.git --branch blockchain --depth 1

That installs LMDB and pulls tewingets latest version of LMDB build.

U can follow the instructions to convert ure existing blockchain, or just sync from 0 (the network will love u), or try the one I uploaded a bit ago.

https://mega.co.nz/#!VM1DTZpC!4Ak4SlPiAAmwG01Hv28clghn_ouAwIhPRaEEg39-24s

put that into .bitmonero
it can live happily along the regular build data

blockchains can be OS specific. The one posted above is debian. (ubuntu)

use at ure own risk!!!!!

I don't risk losing my Monero's right?
Because bitmonerod can't corrupt my keys right?  Undecided

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