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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4466483 times)
GingerAle
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February 11, 2015, 06:09:53 PM
 #19841

(snip)

We've got crypto kingdom for this, you can basicly earn XMR by "investing" your XMR into it -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=819073.0

EDIT: This is ofcourse not optimal, but we should think about getting some same incentives the DRK masternodes have. It's a great way to take supply off the market.

Hrm, well it seems the best incentive for people to hoard cryptocurrencies is the ability to earn more cryptocurrency.... which is of course, artificial. This doesn't spawn anything outside of the currency's economy.

what sort of thing can we create where people want to privately store things of value with the ability to get a return on that store without losing those things or the ability to use those things whenever they want to......

The first that comes to mind is "hey, send me 1000 XMR and I'll just sit on it and send you 2 XMR a month and you can pull out whenever" and this is sort of like the bond that someone proposed weeks ago. Problem is, without multisig, this is a total trust thing.

However, we could use viewkeys - you create a second XMR account, deposit 1000 XMR there. YOu publish the viewkey, or enter the viewkey into a database. Some algorithm reads the database, reads the viewkey, checks the address, if the address holds greater than 1000 XMR, the algorithm sends 2 XMR to that address.

OH WAIT DID SOMEONE SAY DATABASE?

right. So, you create the new XMR account (bond account). From your personal account, you send a transaction to bond account, with the viewkey as the payment ID. So now the database (the monero blockchain) contains the address of the bond account and the viewkey (is the viewkey the same hexlength as a transaction ID? Are viewkeys different than transaction IDs? Would an algorithm be able to parse out a viewkey amidst a sea of transactions IDs?)

The Backer runs a BackerWallet software. This software scans the blockchain and identifies viewkeys, pops the account, measures amount of XMR, if > 1000 sends n XMR. Perhaps somehow the software can measure how long the XMRs been there (totally possible because the viewkey allows analysis of transactions from that account).

this possible?

incentive for Backer - create demand for holding XMR, so the rest of their holdings go up. Say a whale has 10,000k XMR. For 24 XMR, they could sure up 1,000 XMR for a year, so its like they have 11,000 XMR for the price of 10,024 XMR.

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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February 11, 2015, 06:43:00 PM
 #19842

My only 0.02 XMR:

You seem to confuse yourself here (and you definitely confused me):

So, you create the new XMR account (bond account). From your personal account, you send a transaction to bond account, with the viewkey as the payment ID. So now the database (the monero blockchain) contains the address of the bond account and the viewkey (is the viewkey the same hexlength as a transaction ID? Are viewkeys different than transaction IDs? Would an algorithm be able to parse out a viewkey amidst a sea of transactions IDs?)

So now the database (the monero blockchain) contains the address of the bond account..
It does? I have yet to see an address in the Monero blockchain. Pardon me, but I was under the impression that that's what makes an opaque blockchain an opaque blockchain.

I think you mean Payment ID when you typed Transaction ID, or did you? Transaction hash is the correct nomenclature.

Are viewkeys different than transaction IDs?
You must know that they are different. How could they possibly be the same?

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February 11, 2015, 06:53:32 PM
 #19843

My only 0.02 XMR:

You seem to confuse yourself here (and you definitely confused me):

So, you create the new XMR account (bond account). From your personal account, you send a transaction to bond account, with the viewkey as the payment ID. So now the database (the monero blockchain) contains the address of the bond account and the viewkey (is the viewkey the same hexlength as a transaction ID? Are viewkeys different than transaction IDs? Would an algorithm be able to parse out a viewkey amidst a sea of transactions IDs?)

So now the database (the monero blockchain) contains the address of the bond account..
It does? I have yet to see an address in the Monero blockchain. Pardon me, but I was under the impression that that's what makes an opaque blockchain an opaque blockchain.

Right. But if you use a viewkey, you can see addresses? I guess I haven't gotten my head around viewkeys (i've never used one)

Quote
I think you mean Payment ID when you typed Transaction ID, or did you? Transaction hash is the correct nomenclature.
Word. Transaction hash. Thanks!!! But yesh, I'm referring to payment ID - the thing you include in a transaction in case you want someone to be able to single out a transaction.
Quote
Are viewkeys different than transaction IDs?
You must know that they are different. How could they possibly be the same?
Yes, they are different, but I mean in their architecture / composition - as in, does a payment ID have a specific nature compared to a viewkey. So if I sent someone my viewkey as a payment ID, could an algorithm search the blockchain and find a viewkey amongst the payment IDs?

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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February 11, 2015, 08:20:30 PM
 #19844

You ask valid questions.

I hope a Monguru  Cool can answer them.
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February 11, 2015, 09:17:27 PM
 #19845

...
Yes, they are different, but I mean in their architecture / composition - as in, does a payment ID have a specific nature compared to a viewkey. So if I sent someone my viewkey as a payment ID, could an algorithm search the blockchain and find a viewkey amongst the payment IDs?

I'm pretty sure that if you expose your viewkey for a Monero address/account, then in theory anyone can see all transactions associated with that address/account. As has been said many times, the tooling for this doesn't exist in simplewallet yet, but from what I understand by exposing your viewkey you are essentially making a public account.
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February 11, 2015, 09:24:02 PM
 #19846

...
Yes, they are different, but I mean in their architecture / composition - as in, does a payment ID have a specific nature compared to a viewkey. So if I sent someone my viewkey as a payment ID, could an algorithm search the blockchain and find a viewkey amongst the payment IDs?

I'm pretty sure that if you expose your viewkey for a Monero address/account, then in theory anyone can see all transactions associated with that address/account. As has been said many times, the tooling for this doesn't exist in simplewallet yet, but from what I understand by exposing your viewkey you are essentially making a public account.

Link to Fluffy's explanation on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2tea5t/a_reminder_to_those_who_dont_want_a_bitcoin_that/cnygl3q

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February 11, 2015, 09:29:17 PM
 #19847

...
Yes, they are different, but I mean in their architecture / composition - as in, does a payment ID have a specific nature compared to a viewkey. So if I sent someone my viewkey as a payment ID, could an algorithm search the blockchain and find a viewkey amongst the payment IDs?

I'm pretty sure that if you expose your viewkey for a Monero address/account, then in theory anyone can see all transactions associated with that address/account. As has been said many times, the tooling for this doesn't exist in simplewallet yet, but from what I understand by exposing your viewkey you are essentially making a public account.

I'm pretty sure that if you expose your viewkey for a Monero address/account, then in theory anyone can see all transactions associated with that address/account

Right, but thats the point if one were to create this bond / certificate of deposit device.

You create a bond / CD by plopping a certain amount of monero into a new address. People then reward you for keeping it in there over time, and they validate that its in there by using the viewkey.

where the hell is the dude that proposed the bond measure in the first place?

(edited twice because I can't use "there/their" correctly)

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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February 11, 2015, 09:42:26 PM
 #19848

...
Yes, they are different, but I mean in their architecture / composition - as in, does a payment ID have a specific nature compared to a viewkey. So if I sent someone my viewkey as a payment ID, could an algorithm search the blockchain and find a viewkey amongst the payment IDs?

I'm pretty sure that if you expose your viewkey for a Monero address/account, then in theory anyone can see all transactions associated with that address/account. As has been said many times, the tooling for this doesn't exist in simplewallet yet, but from what I understand by exposing your viewkey you are essentially making a public account.

I'm pretty sure that if you expose your viewkey for a Monero address/account, then in theory anyone can see all transactions associated with that address/account

Right, but thats the point if one were to create this bond / certificate of deposit device.

You create a bond / CD by plopping a certain amount of monero into a new address. People then reward you for keeping it in there over time, and they validate that its in there by using the viewkey.

where the hell is the dude that proposed the bond measure in the first place?

(edited twice because I can't use "there/their" correctly)

There is here with a t, both are places

Their is heir with a t, both show ownership (though one is future ownership in most cases).

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February 11, 2015, 09:52:17 PM
 #19849


where the hell is the dude that proposed the bond measure in the first place?

(edited twice because I can't use "there/their" correctly)

aminorex proposed the bond, but i think there was not enough XMR pledged to make it worthwhile for him.

Until then, you can be your own "Monero Masternode" by buying and holding.  Cheesy

In other news, I noticed the Monero subreddit just gained about ~150 new subscribers in the past few days. It has been stagnant around 700 for months. Perhaps some new users are noticing the great potential of Monero.

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February 11, 2015, 09:56:07 PM
 #19850


where the hell is the dude that proposed the bond measure in the first place?

(edited twice because I can't use "there/their" correctly)

aminorex proposed the bond, but i think there was not enough XMR pledged to make it worthwhile for him.

Until then, you can be your own "Monero Masternode" by buying and holding.  Cheesy

In other news, I noticed the Monero subreddit just gained about ~150 new subscribers in the past few days. It has been stagnant around 700 for months. Perhaps some new users are noticing the great potential of Monero.

Wow! That thing was stagnant for months and BAM! Wonder what sparked it? Cryptodice? Unease in the Bitcoin privacy debate? Or just people getting real smart real fast?  Grin

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February 11, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
 #19851


where the hell is the dude that proposed the bond measure in the first place?

(edited twice because I can't use "there/their" correctly)

aminorex proposed the bond, but i think there was not enough XMR pledged to make it worthwhile for him.

Until then, you can be your own "Monero Masternode" by buying and holding.  Cheesy

In other news, I noticed the Monero subreddit just gained about ~150 new subscribers in the past few days. It has been stagnant around 700 for months. Perhaps some new users are noticing the great potential of Monero.

Wow! That thing was stagnant for months and BAM! Wonder what sparked it? Cryptodice? Unease in the Bitcoin privacy debate? Or just people getting real smart real fast?  Grin
There has been a huge price increase in darkcoin the last few days. Perhaps this attracted more interest in coins with focus on anonymity as a whole. People will be looking at the various alternatives and discover monero. Makes more sense to buy into a better / non-premine coin where there hasn't been a rally yet, and anyone buying monero today is getting in at the early adopter prices.

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February 12, 2015, 01:46:01 AM
 #19852

indeed... i've been monitoring no of nodes daily and look at what just blew my mind, there's more than what's on that screenshot but couldn't fit in... looks like interest in monero is picking up at a faster pace..



well coinbase proved itself to be one treacherous trojan horse in bitcoin community.. there were numerous reports on how they monitored some users' transactions and took action once they posed a threat to their KYC shit... i bet they've started datamining entire blockchain and monitor every move users make, the VCs that are pumping money are nothing but proxies for the government... so sooner or later the tide will turn to anonymous cryptos... just look at how banks are now turning hostile against cryptos..

aminorex proposed the bond, but i think there was not enough XMR pledged to make it worthwhile for him.

Until then, you can be your own "Monero Masternode" by buying and holding.  Cheesy

In other news, I noticed the Monero subreddit just gained about ~150 new subscribers in the past few days. It has been stagnant around 700 for months. Perhaps some new users are noticing the great potential of Monero.

Wow! That thing was stagnant for months and BAM! Wonder what sparked it? Cryptodice? Unease in the Bitcoin privacy debate? Or just people getting real smart real fast?  Grin
There has been a huge price increase in darkcoin the last few days. Perhaps this attracted more interest in coins with focus on anonymity as a whole. People will be looking at the various alternatives and discover monero. Makes more sense to buy into a better / non-premine coin where there hasn't been a rally yet, and anyone buying monero today is getting in at the early adopter prices.

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February 12, 2015, 01:53:51 AM
 #19853

Interest in Darkcoin will also drive interest in XMR.  XMR and DRK were both pumped together in May 2014 during the privacy-coin mania. When you do any research on one, you arrive at the other.

Year 2021
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Supply Inflation: <1.8%
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February 12, 2015, 01:54:58 AM
 #19854

Interest in Darkcoin will also drive interest in XMR.  XMR and DRK were both pumped together in May 2014 during the privacy-coin mania.

I only disagree in that the current interest in DRK isn't really driven much by privacy (that's so 2014) but by the instant transaction feature.
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February 12, 2015, 02:13:50 AM
 #19855

Interest in Darkcoin will also drive interest in XMR.  XMR and DRK were both pumped together in May 2014 during the privacy-coin mania.

I only disagree in that the current interest in DRK isn't really driven much by privacy (that's so 2014) but by the instant transaction feature.


Instant transactions, huh? Bitcoin transactions are more or less instant after they're broadcast to a majority of nodes, aren't they? Is that what that is?

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Supply Inflation: <1.8%
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February 12, 2015, 02:18:06 AM
 #19856

People, forget Darkcoin. I think this comparision is turning very annoying.

Monero has to care about more its own issues, like GUI wallet, SPV wallet (in my experience, it's impossible to run bitmonerod because it eats a lot of CPU and more than 2 GB of RAM), eventual CryptoNote issues, media attention, etc.

Wasting time with comparision against Darkcoin won't make Monero a success. No doubt Monero is one of the best coins launched in 2014. But fighting with Darkcoin right now is a bad idea, it will just expose Monero's currently weakness. What makes Monero a great is not comparisions, but its technology about privacy and its talented developers.
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February 12, 2015, 02:52:05 AM
 #19857

People, forget Darkcoin. I think this comparision is turning very annoying.

Monero has to care about more its own issues, like GUI wallet, SPV wallet (in my experience, it's impossible to run bitmonerod because it eats a lot of CPU and more than 2 GB of RAM), eventual CryptoNote issues, media attention, etc.

Wasting time with comparision against Darkcoin won't make Monero a success. No doubt Monero is one of the best coins launched in 2014. But fighting with Darkcoin right now is a bad idea, it will just expose Monero's currently weakness. What makes Monero a great is not comparisions, but its technology about privacy and its talented developers.

except that I'm running bitmonerod with 104 megs of RAM



I don't think anyone mentioned we should fight with Darkcoin. I just think we end up explaining the differences betwixt the coins.


< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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February 12, 2015, 03:06:23 AM
 #19858

People, forget Darkcoin. I think this comparision is turning very annoying.

Monero has to care about more its own issues, like GUI wallet, SPV wallet (in my experience, it's impossible to run bitmonerod because it eats a lot of CPU and more than 2 GB of RAM), eventual CryptoNote issues, media attention, etc.

Wasting time with comparision against Darkcoin won't make Monero a success. No doubt Monero is one of the best coins launched in 2014. But fighting with Darkcoin right now is a bad idea, it will just expose Monero's currently weakness. What makes Monero a great is not comparisions, but its technology about privacy and its talented developers.

except that I'm running bitmonerod with 98 megs of RAM



I don't think anyone mentioned we should fight with Darkcoin. I just think we end up explaining the differences betwixt the coins.



Just trying to syncronize...

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February 12, 2015, 03:48:36 AM
 #19859

Welp, I'm using a test branch of whats known as the database build, which is technically still under development but has been running stable for me (and a bunch of other testers) for almost a month or so now.

I would suggest that if you wanted to run it, then there are ways to do it, but then I saw that you're in windows..... compiling in windows has not been easy for me (I didn't know how to do ANY of this in october when I discovered monero, so some things I still can't figure out).

Someone did manage to compile it in windows - I don't know if they posted it.

At this point, if you're stuck with using windows, I would highly suggest you investigate Ubuntu (rather than try and compile in windows). I used to think Linux was this big scary beast of a thing, what with the terminal, but now I prefer booting into Ubuntu. The Ubuntu release of linux is essentially like windows - fairly intuitive GUI. You can play with the terminal if you want to (say, if you're using monero!), but for other purposes you can use GUI.

I'm debating offering a service where I make Live USB drives for people with monero database build daemons installed on them. Lemme know if you're interested... i'm sure I can source a cheap 6 gig stick and put ubuntu and bitmonerod on it.

Alternatively, I just highly suggest you install ubuntu as a secondary operating system. That way, you can choose to boot into it on your PC - this, in a way, makes your cryptocurrency more secure. While your doing whatever it is you need to do in windows, do you really need access to your savings account?

Also, I recommend using www.mymonero.com as your checking account (easy access, easy to transfer monero). If you want your own private store, then go the ubuntu route.  

The alternative is to just wait until the GUI release.

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
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February 12, 2015, 03:52:24 AM
 #19860

Some of you may like this. Pretty obvious stuff but new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ipe6CMvW0Dg

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