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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1142938 times)
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SteamboatG
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June 26, 2018, 03:05:53 PM
 #8981

Ok so I received a message here from someone who ran into the same problem with staking Clams.  No solution was found and I got a reason why this might be the case.


@Dooglus:  You must have done something to have an advantage picking up Clams that other people deserve?  Apparently you're a skilled dev.  Decentralization should be important for the health of the 'ecosystem' which is basically Just-Dice and speculation at this point.


I had high hopes for Clams, Clams as in beach/ocean.  Our plan was to use the cryptocurrency to help clean beaches/oceans of plastic which is a hot topic.  1 Clam = 1-5kg of plastic or something, just as an example to explain.  So if people bring in 1 kg of plastic, they get 1 Clam as reward.  We would give it a proper real life use case.  I'm a member of the Green Party in the UK, the party doesn't like bitcoin because it uses tons of electricity.  So Clams would have been ideal to experiment with instead for this project.

Unfortunately as things look now, we can't use a coin that's potentially being manipulated by a dev for obvious reasons. We can't sell that to the public.

I'm waiting for Dooglus' response on the matter before I write a report about the state of Clams.  I also PM'd him, but no response so far.
 

Best regards,


G.
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June 26, 2018, 03:33:55 PM
 #8982

Ok so I received a message here from someone who ran into the same problem with staking Clams.  No solution was found and I got a reason why this might be the case.


@Dooglus:  You must have done something to have an advantage picking up Clams that other people deserve?  Apparently you're a skilled dev.  Decentralization should be important for the health of the 'ecosystem' which is basically Just-Dice and speculation at this point.


I had high hopes for Clams, Clams as in beach/ocean.  Our plan was to use the cryptocurrency to help clean beaches/oceans of plastic which is a hot topic.  1 Clam = 1-5kg of plastic or something, just as an example to explain.  So if people bring in 1 kg of plastic, they get 1 Clam as reward.  We would give it a proper real life use case.  I'm a member of the Green Party in the UK, the party doesn't like bitcoin because it uses tons of electricity.  So Clams would have been ideal to experiment with instead for this project.

Unfortunately as things look now, we can't use a coin that's potentially being manipulated by a dev for obvious reasons. We can't sell that to the public.

I'm waiting for Dooglus' response on the matter before I write a report about the state of Clams.  I also PM'd him, but no response so far.
 

Best regards,


G.

Had a problem with many orphans blocks back when I staked this coin than I gave up. Hope to read a valid answer from the dev
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June 26, 2018, 03:35:18 PM
 #8983

Our plan was to use the cryptocurrency to help clean beaches/oceans of plastic which is a hot topic.
Perhaps if, instead of making heroic assumptions, you'd raised the idea with the community first, you would have been apprised of pertinent factors.

Quote
Unfortunately as things look now, we can't use a coin that's potentially being manipulated by a dev for obvious reasons. We can't sell that to the public.
Could you explain exactly what magical powers you think a dev possesses in order to secretly affect the operation of open source code?

Quote
I'm waiting for Dooglus' response on the matter before I write a report about the state of Clams.  I also PM'd him, but no response so far.

Hardly surprising as dooglus is a contributor (which would have been made clear to you, had you the courtesy to ask, see pt one above) and is perfectly free to make his contrbutions (or not) as and when he sees fit. He also owns/runs JustDice, so has a user's interest in the functioning of the coin, hence the contributions.

I recommend you waste no further time and move straight to the report. If you care to make it public here, it's possible that someone will care sufficiently to draft a response that may be of interest to other members of your organisation.

Cheers

Graham
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June 26, 2018, 03:46:16 PM
Last edit: June 26, 2018, 04:12:50 PM by SteamboatG
 #8984

Our plan was to use the cryptocurrency to help clean beaches/oceans of plastic which is a hot topic.
Perhaps if, instead of making heroic assumptions, you'd raised the idea with the community first, you would have been apprised of pertinent factors.

Quote
Unfortunately as things look now, we can't use a coin that's potentially being manipulated by a dev for obvious reasons. We can't sell that to the public.
Could you explain exactly what magical powers you think a dev possesses in order to secretly affect the operation of open source code?

Quote
I'm waiting for Dooglus' response on the matter before I write a report about the state of Clams.  I also PM'd him, but no response so far.

Hardly surprising as dooglus is a contributor (which would have been made clear to you, had you the courtesy to ask, see pt one above) and is perfectly free to make his contrbutions (or not) as and when he sees fit. He also owns/runs JustDice, so has a user's interest in the functioning of the coin, hence the contributions.

I recommend you waste no further time and move straight to the report. If you care to make it public here, it's possible that someone will care sufficiently to draft a response that may be of interest to other members of your organisation.

Cheers

Graham


So who went through the open source code to check it? And why is this problem not being addressed in the past?

Yes we would have asked the community at the right time, I'm here to check out the tech first.  Not that it is needed to ask permission as it's open source, anybody can use it right? Anybody who wanted to contribute to the project would be welcome.  We just needed to farm the Clams to give to people.


One would think a real life use case like this would be welcome as I read on the Clams Github that they wanted to reinvent Clams but clearly had no fresh ideas as they posted this in 2016. 


I'll take your advice and move straight forward to the report.    

Plenty of other coins to check out you know.  Not our loss really.
 


Cheers,

G.

 
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June 26, 2018, 04:21:00 PM
 #8985

So who went through the open source code to check it? And why is this problem not being addressed in the past?
Whomsoever wanted to. Are you offering to help fund an analysis or a bugfix or are you expecting to benefit from the work of others?

Quote
Yes we would have asked the community at the right time, I'm here to check out the tech first.
In an offensively strident, demanding and challenging manner, making a boatload of false assumptions that you never bothered checking and which acted to exclude you from information about the ongoing development of the codebase.

Quote
Plenty of other coins to check out you know.  Not our loss really.
Pish. If the idea had merit in the first place, then it still does. Are you really prepared to compromise your project rather than adopt a more socially-aware approach? Perhaps this might help position you better in your efforts (here or elsewhere, if the latter, then good luck - genuinely): https://minkiz.co/library/a-different-perspective-on-cryptocurrency.html

Cheers

Graham
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June 26, 2018, 04:32:36 PM
 #8986

So who went through the open source code to check it? And why is this problem not being addressed in the past?
Whomsoever wanted to. Are you offering to help fund an analysis or a bugfix or are you expecting to benefit from the work of others?

Quote
Yes we would have asked the community at the right time, I'm here to check out the tech first.
In an offensively strident, demanding and challenging manner, making a boatload of false assumptions that you never bothered checking and which acted to exclude you from information about the ongoing development of the codebase.

Quote
Plenty of other coins to check out you know.  Not our loss really.
Pish. If the idea had merit in the first place, then it still does. Are you really prepared to compromise your project rather than adopt a more socially-aware approach? Perhaps this might help position you better in your efforts (here or elsewhere, if the latter, then good luck - genuinely): https://minkiz.co/library/a-different-perspective-on-cryptocurrency.html

Cheers

Graham


We put in 70k dollar into the clam Project to help secure it and we would give the clams to people to collect waist plastic, we wouldn't make much money would we?  How dare you to insinuate we expect to benefit from the work of others.  What did you do to help clean up the planet recently?  What did you do to bring crypto in a good spotlight recently?

You're here criticizing and judging me for trying to bring a use case to Clams and when I point out the staking doesn't work as intended, I get flak from you.  What's your agenda really?


 
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June 26, 2018, 04:36:01 PM
 #8987

What's your agenda really?

To get you off've dooglus' back. In your ignorance, you chose the wrong target.

Cheers

Graham
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June 26, 2018, 04:40:10 PM
 #8988

What's your agenda really?

To get you off've dooglus' back. In your ignorance, you chose the wrong target.

Cheers

Graham


Says you, I don't know you nor do I know Dooglus.  Verify don't trust, you should know that.
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June 26, 2018, 04:51:44 PM
 #8989

Says you, I don't know you nor do I know Dooglus.  Verify don't trust, you should know that.

Unlike your good self, I don't operate under a pseudonym, you may verify me all you like.

Also, I believe the community is now in a much better situation to assess its collective response to your demands,

Cheers

Graham
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June 26, 2018, 04:59:16 PM
Last edit: June 27, 2018, 03:15:18 AM by SteamboatG
 #8990

Says you, I don't know you nor do I know Dooglus.  Verify don't trust, you should know that.

Unlike your good self, I don't operate under a pseudonym, you may verify me all you like.

Also, I believe the community is now in a much better situation to assess its collective response to your demands,

Cheers

Graham



What are you on about mate, demands?  I raised a problem which several people experienced as well and it would be beneficial for Clams and the community if it can be solved.  


Or do you prefer people put in a shitton of money only to find out they will be disapointed by the rewards?  So they give up and move on, how can this be a good thing for Clams?

There's no mention about this problem in the introduction, at least someone can add it so people know what they're getting into.  
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June 26, 2018, 05:15:36 PM
 #8991

What are you on about mate, demands?

Posting that you've PM'd dooglus and are awaiting a response.  Can we agree that this is putting public pressure on someone that you have assumed will take personal responsibility for fixing a problem?

Cheers

Graham
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June 26, 2018, 05:33:29 PM
Last edit: June 26, 2018, 05:47:59 PM by SteamboatG
 #8992

What are you on about mate, demands?

Posting that you've PM'd dooglus and are awaiting a response.  Can we agree that this is putting public pressure on someone that you have assumed will take personal responsibility for fixing a problem?

Cheers

Graham


No we can't agree.

I contacted him explaining the problem and as he's apparently very skilled, I and some other people would like to know what he has to say about the situation.   I also mentionned I got some feedback from other people here which boils down to this: he's the man I should talk to and if something is fishy (which is not proven at this point) it might have to do with JD and I have been told he did the code for JD.  

Where did the Clams I lost today go to?  You'll probably answer, to other nodes.  So who has like over 80% of Clams under his belt (what I've been told) and is staking with it?  JD

So yeah, got some questions, deal with it.
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June 26, 2018, 05:38:52 PM
 #8993

No we can't agree.

Then we're done.

Cheers

Graham
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June 26, 2018, 06:31:29 PM
 #8994

No we can't agree.

Then we're done.

Cheers

Graham

I'll agree on this, I might have worded it better in my question.  Instead of asking: You might have done something to pick up the Clams other people deserve? So I apologise about that if that came across the wrong way.

The problem still exists though which is actually what this is all about.  But what do you care, it's not your 70k at stake, no pun intended.
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June 26, 2018, 07:48:36 PM
 #8995

The problem still exists though
If you personally don't have/have access to the skills/knowedge to resolve an apparent problem with the code, then the widely-accepted approach in open source software - and here, too - is to carefully describe how to reproduce the problem and raise a github issue. It would be a good idea to post a reference here after doing so.

If you read up-thread, you will encounter BayAreaCoins' periodic mentions that an upgraded version of the code is being developed (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147.msg34414705#msg34414705), earlier posts advise that development takes place sporadically, as and when donation funding is available.

Also, if you do read up-thread, you will encounter more of dooglus' posts and that might give you an opportunity to reflect on what your insinuations have communicated publicly of yourself.

You've got more money than I have time so I'll leave you to it.

Cheers

Graham
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June 26, 2018, 08:06:21 PM
 #8996

Quote from: SteamboatG
Where did the Clams I lost today go to?

I am sure you did not lost any clams trying to stake, this is for sure. I had been staking for years without problems. Before anything: Are you aware that after staking, your coins will be locked for a certain period of time, and in this time you cannot move them? Maybe you are not aware that when you send coins, they do not return to the original address but to a change address and you can be looking the balance of a wrong address?

Can you please use the command
Code:
getinfo
and sum the numbers in "balance" and "stake" after and before a stake, and see if the balance really just adds 1 to the total? This way, we can be sure the stake really works in your wallet

criptocambio.com.br
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June 26, 2018, 08:20:50 PM
 #8997

Quote from: SteamboatG
Where did the Clams I lost today go to?

I am sure you did not lost any clams trying to stake, this is for sure. I had been staking for years without problems. Before anything: Are you aware that after staking, your coins will be locked for a certain period of time, and in this time you cannot move them? Maybe you are not aware that when you send coins, they do not return to the original address but to a change address and you can be looking the balance of a wrong address?

Can you please use the command
Code:
getinfo
and sum the numbers in "balance" and "stake" after and before a stake, and see if the balance really just adds 1 to the total? This way, we can be sure the stake really works in your wallet
Well here's a screenshot to prove it:


When I click on the question marks it says 'conflicted'.  The Clams disapeared from the dashboard as well and get substracted from my balance.


My wallet was split in over 750 addresses with less than 50 clams on each for staking purposes.  When a Clam disapeared (conflicted) I got the stake back.  But that's not the issue, the issue is I lose Clams.
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June 26, 2018, 08:33:52 PM
 #8998

Quote from: SteamboatG
Where did the Clams I lost today go to?

I am sure you did not lost any clams trying to stake, this is for sure. I had been staking for years without problems. Before anything: Are you aware that after staking, your coins will be locked for a certain period of time, and in this time you cannot move them? Maybe you are not aware that when you send coins, they do not return to the original address but to a change address and you can be looking the balance of a wrong address?

Can you please use the command
Code:
getinfo
and sum the numbers in "balance" and "stake" after and before a stake, and see if the balance really just adds 1 to the total? This way, we can be sure the stake really works in your wallet
Well here's a screenshot to prove it:


When I click on the question marks it says 'conflicted'.  The Clams disapeared from the dashboard as well and get substracted from my balance.


My wallet was split in over 750 addresses with less than 50 clams on each for staking purposes.  When a Clam disapeared (conflicted) I got the stake back.  But that's not the issue, the issue is I lose Clams.

It is not lost it has been rejected by the network and that block you mined has not been included in the blockchain
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June 26, 2018, 08:38:42 PM
 #8999

Quote from: SteamboatG
Where did the Clams I lost today go to?

I am sure you did not lost any clams trying to stake, this is for sure. I had been staking for years without problems. Before anything: Are you aware that after staking, your coins will be locked for a certain period of time, and in this time you cannot move them? Maybe you are not aware that when you send coins, they do not return to the original address but to a change address and you can be looking the balance of a wrong address?

Can you please use the command
Code:
getinfo
and sum the numbers in "balance" and "stake" after and before a stake, and see if the balance really just adds 1 to the total? This way, we can be sure the stake really works in your wallet
Well here's a screenshot to prove it:


When I click on the question marks it says 'conflicted'.  The Clams disapeared from the dashboard as well and get substracted from my balance.


My wallet was split in over 750 addresses with less than 50 clams on each for staking purposes.  When a Clam disapeared (conflicted) I got the stake back.  But that's not the issue, the issue is I lose Clams.

It is not lost it has been rejected by the network and that block you mined has not been included in the blockchain

Ok so 1/3 of the clams I find get rejected, how fun is that?  So the code signals I should find about 24 a day, but 1/3 of them get rejected.  Are you saying this is working as intended?   

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June 26, 2018, 08:47:06 PM
 #9000

Quote from: SteamboatG
Where did the Clams I lost today go to?

I am sure you did not lost any clams trying to stake, this is for sure. I had been staking for years without problems. Before anything: Are you aware that after staking, your coins will be locked for a certain period of time, and in this time you cannot move them? Maybe you are not aware that when you send coins, they do not return to the original address but to a change address and you can be looking the balance of a wrong address?

Can you please use the command
Code:
getinfo
and sum the numbers in "balance" and "stake" after and before a stake, and see if the balance really just adds 1 to the total? This way, we can be sure the stake really works in your wallet
Well here's a screenshot to prove it:


When I click on the question marks it says 'conflicted'.  The Clams disapeared from the dashboard as well and get substracted from my balance.


My wallet was split in over 750 addresses with less than 50 clams on each for staking purposes.  When a Clam disapeared (conflicted) I got the stake back.  But that's not the issue, the issue is I lose Clams.

It is not lost it has been rejected by the network and that block you mined has not been included in the blockchain

Ok so 1/3 of the clams I find get rejected, how fun is that?  So the code signals I should find about 24 a day, but 1/3 of them get rejected.  Are you saying this is working as intended?  



It is how the blockchain works, even POW coins like bitcoin or ethereum, can produce orphan blocks, like it happens here.
The issue is if you get JUST orphan blocks, while ago I was staking clams and for a couple of days I got just orphan blocks, that was an issue, but if you get 1 or 2 out of 20, I don't see any issue.

By the way it is good to have another big player staking this coin, 20 coins a day is a nice result, not big as just-dice, but better than nothing, please do not give up, the coin is cool, and it needs more decentralization
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