benthach
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Activity: 1764
Merit: 1000
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June 13, 2014, 11:21:01 AM |
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With XC you have to trust the mixer isn't logging the data and that the mixer won't steal your coins. Giving control of your coins to another entity is just asking for trouble.
Thansk I appreciate your (and others input here) So..with DRK the nodes merely witness the change of ownership and verify it? But with a mixer the coins pass into the mixer (rather than merely being witnessed) and then have to be "allowed" out the other end? Can you expand? 1.Where exactly is the "mixer"? 2.If the source is open, then would that mean coins could not be stolen? 3.The developer of XC stated "mixers don't steal coins".....but you seem to think they can? So how would a mixer steal coins? It's simple. You send coins to a address issued by mixer and mixer has private key of the address issued. so how mixer steal it? isn't the mixer program to mix/forward the coins? from what i understand you think mixer can just keep/steal the coin or perhaps forwards to different address? but how? Shutdown computer, lock wallet, diconnect network, power failure. Mixer program should/will mix/forward the coins. Owner of the mixer is problem.. Do you know that mixer takes input/coins and waits at least 2 ~ 3 more blocks confirmation before forwards the coins. 3.The developer of XC stated "mixers don't steal coins".....but you seem to think they can? So how would a mixer steal coins?
True, People steal coins. you sound like mixer could take minutes or even days to mix coins. i though this done instantly? it just pass through when wallet is on then pass it to blockchain? i used to think there is no time to even turn off computer during this instant mix. but hey perhaps mixers take minutes or even days like you though? Check my analysis. There are always 2 ~ 3 blocks difference. Why ? to prevent double spending. Can't be instantly. Mixer risks - balance situation. If a block is orphaned, sender spend the coins again. 2 ~ 3 block difference of what and from what? |
reddit btcwriter1 - twitter kingpininvestor
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Queeq
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June 13, 2014, 11:25:03 AM |
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2 ~ 3 block difference of what and from what?
Between transactions. |
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chaeplin
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June 13, 2014, 11:25:39 AM |
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With XC you have to trust the mixer isn't logging the data and that the mixer won't steal your coins. Giving control of your coins to another entity is just asking for trouble.
Thansk I appreciate your (and others input here) So..with DRK the nodes merely witness the change of ownership and verify it? But with a mixer the coins pass into the mixer (rather than merely being witnessed) and then have to be "allowed" out the other end? Can you expand? 1.Where exactly is the "mixer"? 2.If the source is open, then would that mean coins could not be stolen? 3.The developer of XC stated "mixers don't steal coins".....but you seem to think they can? So how would a mixer steal coins? It's simple. You send coins to a address issued by mixer and mixer has private key of the address issued. so how mixer steal it? isn't the mixer program to mix/forward the coins? from what i understand you think mixer can just keep/steal the coin or perhaps forwards to different address? but how? Shutdown computer, lock wallet, diconnect network, power failure. Mixer program should/will mix/forward the coins. Owner of the mixer is problem.. Do you know that mixer takes input/coins and waits at least 2 ~ 3 more blocks confirmation before forwards the coins. 3.The developer of XC stated "mixers don't steal coins".....but you seem to think they can? So how would a mixer steal coins?
True, People steal coins. you sound like mixer could take minutes or even days to mix coins. i though this done instantly? it just pass through when wallet is on then pass it to blockchain? i used to think there is no time to even turn off computer during this instant mix. but hey perhaps mixers take minutes or even days like you though? Check my analysis. There are always 2 ~ 3 blocks difference. Why ? to prevent double spending. Can't be instantly. Mixer risks - balance situation. If a block is orphaned, sender spend the coins again. 2 ~ 3 difference of what and from what? send to mixer --> tx confirmed ( included in a block) + 1 : block no/heght ex) 100 another block generated = confirmed + 2 : 101 send out coins --> tx confirmed ( included in a block ) + 3 : 102 If a block is generated too fast, +1 more. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631052.msg7270701#msg7270701 |
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chaeplin
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June 13, 2014, 11:29:37 AM |
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2 ~ 3 block difference of what and from what?
Between transactions. Thank you Sir. Really clear and simple answer. |
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benthach
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Activity: 1764
Merit: 1000
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June 13, 2014, 11:32:34 AM |
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With XC you have to trust the mixer isn't logging the data and that the mixer won't steal your coins. Giving control of your coins to another entity is just asking for trouble.
Thansk I appreciate your (and others input here) So..with DRK the nodes merely witness the change of ownership and verify it? But with a mixer the coins pass into the mixer (rather than merely being witnessed) and then have to be "allowed" out the other end? Can you expand? 1.Where exactly is the "mixer"? 2.If the source is open, then would that mean coins could not be stolen? 3.The developer of XC stated "mixers don't steal coins".....but you seem to think they can? So how would a mixer steal coins? It's simple. You send coins to a address issued by mixer and mixer has private key of the address issued. so how mixer steal it? isn't the mixer program to mix/forward the coins? from what i understand you think mixer can just keep/steal the coin or perhaps forwards to different address? but how? Shutdown computer, lock wallet, diconnect network, power failure. Mixer program should/will mix/forward the coins. Owner of the mixer is problem.. Do you know that mixer takes input/coins and waits at least 2 ~ 3 more blocks confirmation before forwards the coins. 3.The developer of XC stated "mixers don't steal coins".....but you seem to think they can? So how would a mixer steal coins?
True, People steal coins. you sound like mixer could take minutes or even days to mix coins. i though this done instantly? it just pass through when wallet is on then pass it to blockchain? i used to think there is no time to even turn off computer during this instant mix. but hey perhaps mixers take minutes or even days like you though? Check my analysis. There are always 2 ~ 3 blocks difference. Why ? to prevent double spending. Can't be instantly. Mixer risks - balance situation. If a block is orphaned, sender spend the coins again. 2 ~ 3 difference of what and from what? send to mixer --> tx confirmed ( included in a block) + 1 : block no/heght ex) 100 another block generated = confirmed + 2 : 101 send out coins --> tx confirmed ( included in a block ) + 3 : 102 If a block is generated too fast, +1 more. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631052.msg7270701#msg7270701how do you know if a block is generated too fast, +1 more? and is there way to fix this? |
reddit btcwriter1 - twitter kingpininvestor
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chaeplin
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June 13, 2014, 11:36:24 AM |
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With XC you have to trust the mixer isn't logging the data and that the mixer won't steal your coins. Giving control of your coins to another entity is just asking for trouble.
Thansk I appreciate your (and others input here) So..with DRK the nodes merely witness the change of ownership and verify it? But with a mixer the coins pass into the mixer (rather than merely being witnessed) and then have to be "allowed" out the other end? Can you expand? 1.Where exactly is the "mixer"? 2.If the source is open, then would that mean coins could not be stolen? 3.The developer of XC stated "mixers don't steal coins".....but you seem to think they can? So how would a mixer steal coins? It's simple. You send coins to a address issued by mixer and mixer has private key of the address issued. so how mixer steal it? isn't the mixer program to mix/forward the coins? from what i understand you think mixer can just keep/steal the coin or perhaps forwards to different address? but how? Shutdown computer, lock wallet, diconnect network, power failure. Mixer program should/will mix/forward the coins. Owner of the mixer is problem.. Do you know that mixer takes input/coins and waits at least 2 ~ 3 more blocks confirmation before forwards the coins. 3.The developer of XC stated "mixers don't steal coins".....but you seem to think they can? So how would a mixer steal coins?
True, People steal coins. you sound like mixer could take minutes or even days to mix coins. i though this done instantly? it just pass through when wallet is on then pass it to blockchain? i used to think there is no time to even turn off computer during this instant mix. but hey perhaps mixers take minutes or even days like you though? Check my analysis. There are always 2 ~ 3 blocks difference. Why ? to prevent double spending. Can't be instantly. Mixer risks - balance situation. If a block is orphaned, sender spend the coins again. 2 ~ 3 difference of what and from what? send to mixer --> tx confirmed ( included in a block) + 1 : block no/heght ex) 100 another block generated = confirmed + 2 : 101 send out coins --> tx confirmed ( included in a block ) + 3 : 102 If a block is generated too fast, +1 more. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631052.msg7270701#msg7270701how do you know if a block is generated too fast, +1 more? and is there way to fix this? Sometime It took 1 sec. http://drk.poolhash.org/x11coin.htmlhttp://chainz.cryptoid.info/xc/tx/transaction should be announced to network, it takes times. If tx is not included in a block, it will be in next block. Fix ? FIX POS.. |
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benthach
Legendary
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Activity: 1764
Merit: 1000
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June 13, 2014, 11:44:05 AM |
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With XC you have to trust the mixer isn't logging the data and that the mixer won't steal your coins. Giving control of your coins to another entity is just asking for trouble.
Thansk I appreciate your (and others input here) So..with DRK the nodes merely witness the change of ownership and verify it? But with a mixer the coins pass into the mixer (rather than merely being witnessed) and then have to be "allowed" out the other end? Can you expand? 1.Where exactly is the "mixer"? 2.If the source is open, then would that mean coins could not be stolen? 3.The developer of XC stated "mixers don't steal coins".....but you seem to think they can? So how would a mixer steal coins? It's simple. You send coins to a address issued by mixer and mixer has private key of the address issued. so how mixer steal it? isn't the mixer program to mix/forward the coins? from what i understand you think mixer can just keep/steal the coin or perhaps forwards to different address? but how? Shutdown computer, lock wallet, diconnect network, power failure. Mixer program should/will mix/forward the coins. Owner of the mixer is problem.. Do you know that mixer takes input/coins and waits at least 2 ~ 3 more blocks confirmation before forwards the coins. 3.The developer of XC stated "mixers don't steal coins".....but you seem to think they can? So how would a mixer steal coins?
True, People steal coins. you sound like mixer could take minutes or even days to mix coins. i though this done instantly? it just pass through when wallet is on then pass it to blockchain? i used to think there is no time to even turn off computer during this instant mix. but hey perhaps mixers take minutes or even days like you though? Check my analysis. There are always 2 ~ 3 blocks difference. Why ? to prevent double spending. Can't be instantly. Mixer risks - balance situation. If a block is orphaned, sender spend the coins again. 2 ~ 3 difference of what and from what? send to mixer --> tx confirmed ( included in a block) + 1 : block no/heght ex) 100 another block generated = confirmed + 2 : 101 send out coins --> tx confirmed ( included in a block ) + 3 : 102 If a block is generated too fast, +1 more. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631052.msg7270701#msg7270701how do you know if a block is generated too fast, +1 more? and is there way to fix this? Sometime It took 1 sec. http://drk.poolhash.org/x11coin.htmlhttp://chainz.cryptoid.info/xc/tx/transaction should be announced to network, it takes times. If tx is not included in a block, it will be in next block. Fix ? FIX POS.. so you saying mixer take a few blocks to complete it transaction and it can't be done within the 1 block period? |
reddit btcwriter1 - twitter kingpininvestor
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chaeplin
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June 13, 2014, 11:47:31 AM |
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so you saying mixer take a few blocks to complete it transaction and it can't be done within the 1 block period?
Take inputs, then send out at next block ? Can, why not. But, if the input block is orphaned ? You will know that after send out. No input, just send out = - balance. fyi, coinjoin variant's input and output is placed in a block. |
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benthach
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Activity: 1764
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June 13, 2014, 11:50:35 AM |
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so you saying mixer take a few blocks to complete it transaction and it can't be done within the 1 block period?
Take inputs, then send out at next block ? Can, why not. But, if the input block is orphaned ? You will know that after send out. No input, just send out = - balance. i didn't ask about input/output. I just want to know if the current XC mixer is taking a few blocks to complete it transaction or just one(1)? |
reddit btcwriter1 - twitter kingpininvestor
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chaeplin
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June 13, 2014, 11:54:11 AM |
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so you saying mixer take a few blocks to complete it transaction and it can't be done within the 1 block period?
Take inputs, then send out at next block ? Can, why not. But, if the input block is orphaned ? You will know that after send out. No input, just send out = - balance. i didn't ask about input/output. I just want to know if the current XC mixer is taking a few blocks to complete it transaction or just one(1)? Depends on dev's patch. It's always changed. 2more, 6more, 11 more... just one(1) block more == xnode owner can lose coins. i didn't ask about input/output.
You should read this http://tech.eu/features/808/bitcoin-part-one/ |
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NewWorldCoiner
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June 13, 2014, 12:01:57 PM |
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so you saying mixer take a few blocks to complete it transaction and it can't be done within the 1 block period?
Take inputs, then send out at next block ? Can, why not. But, if the input block is orphaned ? You will know that after send out. No input, just send out = - balance. i didn't ask about input/output. I just want to know if the current XC mixer is taking a few blocks to complete it transaction or just one(1)? Depends on dev's patch. It's always changed. 2more, 6more, 11 more... just one(1) block more == xnode owner can lose coins. i didn't ask about input/output.
You should read this http://tech.eu/features/808/bitcoin-part-one/ But there has to be a difference in blocks to prevent double spend, yes? |
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benthach
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June 13, 2014, 12:03:57 PM |
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so you saying mixer take a few blocks to complete it transaction and it can't be done within the 1 block period?
Take inputs, then send out at next block ? Can, why not. But, if the input block is orphaned ? You will know that after send out. No input, just send out = - balance. i didn't ask about input/output. I just want to know if the current XC mixer is taking a few blocks to complete it transaction or just one(1)? Depends on dev's patch. It's always changed. 2more, 6more, 11 more... just one(1) block more == xnode owner can lose coins. i didn't ask about input/output.
You should read this http://tech.eu/features/808/bitcoin-part-one/ your answer, "just one(1) block more". is it a 1 + 1 or 1+more or just 1? you still not answer my question. please read my question careful and try to answer? i did click the link but it talk about bitcoin. do bitcoin have or using mixer? we are talking about mixer here. please stay and focus with 1 subject. ps. yes english is also not my first language, not even second or third but the fourth one. |
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chaeplin
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June 13, 2014, 12:07:17 PM |
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But there has to be a difference in blocks to prevent double spend, yes?
Yes. |
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chaeplin
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June 13, 2014, 12:08:05 PM |
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your answer, "just one(1) block more". is it a 1 + 1 or 1+more or just 1?
you still not answer my question. please read my question careful and try to answer? i did click the link but it talk about bitcoin. do bitcoin have or using mixer? we are talking about mixer here. please stay and focus with 1 subject.
ps. yes english is also not my first language, not even second or third but the fourth one.
You should ask me with block numbers. Then it will be easy. |
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benthach
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June 13, 2014, 12:11:08 PM |
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your answer, "just one(1) block more". is it a 1 + 1 or 1+more or just 1?
you still not answer my question. please read my question careful and try to answer? i did click the link but it talk about bitcoin. do bitcoin have or using mixer? we are talking about mixer here. please stay and focus with 1 subject.
ps. yes english is also not my first language, not even second or third but the fourth one.
You should ask me with block numbers. Then it will be easy. here is my question again, if you can't answer then you is really something. I just want to know if the current XC mixer is taking a few(2+) blocks to complete it transaction or just one(1)? |
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NewWorldCoiner
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June 13, 2014, 12:12:08 PM |
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your answer, "just one(1) block more". is it a 1 + 1 or 1+more or just 1?
you still not answer my question. please read my question careful and try to answer? i did click the link but it talk about bitcoin. do bitcoin have or using mixer? we are talking about mixer here. please stay and focus with 1 subject.
ps. yes english is also not my first language, not even second or third but the fourth one.
You should ask me with block numbers. Then it will be easy. here is my question again, if you can't answer then you is really something. I just want to know if the current XC mixer is taking a few(2+) blocks to complete it transaction or just one(1)? Yes, more than 1 block. |
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chaeplin
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June 13, 2014, 12:13:21 PM |
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here is my question again, if you can't answer then you is really something.
I just want to know if the current XC mixer is taking a few(2+) blocks to complete it transaction or just one(1)?
what is the meaning of "just one(1)? " the current XC mixer is taking a few(2+) blocks to complete it transaction : yes input --> block no 100 ----> output : 1 block / mixer can do this. never / why ? hard link. double spend / flowed operation / need step / input --> block no 100 block no 101 ----> output : 2 block / double spend It's all about bitcoin. Mixer is wallet + program(take in. send out) |
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benthach
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June 13, 2014, 12:20:08 PM |
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here is my question again, if you can't answer then you is really something.
I just want to know if the current XC mixer is taking a few(2+) blocks to complete it transaction or just one(1)?
what is the meaning of "just one(1)? " the current XC mixer is taking a few(2+) blocks to complete it transaction : yes yes, you answer my question. now i need to find this out or perhaps adc can confirm that mixer need a few(2+) blocks to complete it transaction. |
reddit btcwriter1 - twitter kingpininvestor
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chaeplin
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June 13, 2014, 12:27:34 PM |
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here is my question again, if you can't answer then you is really something.
I just want to know if the current XC mixer is taking a few(2+) blocks to complete it transaction or just one(1)?
what is the meaning of "just one(1)? " the current XC mixer is taking a few(2+) blocks to complete it transaction : yes yes, you answer my question. now i need to find this out or perhaps adc can confirm with me that mixer need a few(2+) blocks to complete it transaction. You can't guarantee all inputs(tx 1) and outputs(tx 2) are included in same block. So your questions is meaningless. |
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tr8kr
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June 13, 2014, 12:37:13 PM |
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Coin come to xnode = many split transaction in pending at
same time transaction output from xnode using "reservebalance" (coin confirmed ready to transfert not minted) to destination adress = one different transaction
The two transaction are made instantly but not tie.
If you turn off your xnode or computer when input come ,your coin in the reservebalance are already sent and in pending on the network to the destination ! No need to wait for a block or confirmation they are completely separate input and output.
If its the fact that input come in the xnode before to be sent at output , we can tell to the xnode to send coin before taking the coin from the input if not input bounce to another xnode.
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