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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1808259 times)
tvbcof
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March 14, 2012, 09:54:16 PM
 #101

...
it'll be an all-one-market effect with USD up and everything else down.  the Fed won't be able to print fast enough and the printing that they do comes with some trepidation b/c if they destroy the USD, their only tool, they then self destruct.

I strongly suspect that TPTB are fully aware of, and largely in control of, the demise of the USD.  Far from 'self destruction', I suspect that it will be a great leap forward for them.

If _I_ were doing the engineering, I would formulate things such that a bulk of the population were in need of the support of the government for survival.  Like having government issued and government re-charged debit cards for buying food, paying bills, obtaining health care, etc.  In this way the population is dis-incentivezed toward picking up guns or stirring up trouble on twitter, and will likely be antagonistic to those who reject the new monetary solution as such people (i.e., us Bitcoin users and those of us who might hold PM's) would be a legitimate threat to their survival.

As an added benefit of such a scheme, inflation could be tuned by putting card holders into debt.  Indebtedness is especially effective in keeping people working for limited pay so that is another feature of such a scheme.


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silverbox
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March 14, 2012, 09:56:40 PM
 #102

...
it'll be an all-one-market effect with USD up and everything else down.  the Fed won't be able to print fast enough and the printing that they do comes with some trepidation b/c if they destroy the USD, their only tool, they then self destruct.

I strongly suspect that TPTB are fully aware of, and largely in control of, the demise of the USD.  Far from 'self destruction', I suspect that it will be a great leap forward for them.

If _I_ were doing the engineering, I would formulate things such that a bulk of the population were in need of the support of the government for survival.  Like having government issued and government re-charged debit cards for buying food, paying bills, obtaining health care, etc.  In this way the population is dis-incentivezed toward picking up guns or stirring up trouble on twitter, and will likely be antagonistic to those who reject the new monetary solution as such people (i.e., us Bitcoin users and those of us who might hold PM's) would be a legitimate threat to their survival.

As an added benefit of such a scheme, inflation could be tuned by putting card holders into debt.  Indebtedness is especially effective in keeping people working for limited pay so that is another feature of such a scheme.



Wink are you by chance selling tinfoil hats?? 
cypherdoc
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March 14, 2012, 09:59:35 PM
 #103

lol, that's what they want you to think.



you have no idea how right you are on this one.

the Fed needs the speculators on Wall St to drive asset appreciation.  initially at the bottom of cycle, the young punk traders are more than happy to borrow from the discount window at 0.25% and jack all markets to ridiculous highs.  all the retail and pension get excited near the top and jump in, especially on a breakout like we've just had, only to be met with a selloff and shorting opportunity for the punks to fleece everyone.

they know they can't just drive the system into a hyperinflation b/c they know that will just destroy the system.

this is where we are right now.
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March 14, 2012, 10:02:00 PM
 #104

lol, that's what they want you to think.

Ok, *shrug*.  Don't believe the way it really is..  There will be NO deflation.

I am wondering why Japanese were not able to "just buy things" using your model, for like decades now. They must be stupid or something. Or maybe there is some kind of magic bullet that is available to the fed but was never available to Japan's central bank.


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silverbox
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March 14, 2012, 10:05:28 PM
 #105

lol, that's what they want you to think.

Ok, *shrug*.  Don't believe the way it really is..  There will be NO deflation.

I am wondering why Japanese were not able to "just buy things" using your model, for like decades now. They must be stupid or something. Or maybe there is some kind of magic bullet that is available to the fed but was never available to Japan's central bank.



wtf??? Japan didn't have any deflation!
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March 14, 2012, 10:06:22 PM
 #106

lol, that's what they want you to think.

Ok, *shrug*.  Don't believe the way it really is..  There will be NO deflation.

I am wondering why Japanese were not able to "just buy things" using your model, for like decades now. They must be stupid or something. Or maybe there is some kind of magic bullet that is available to the fed but was never available to Japan's central bank.



wtf??? Japan didn't have any deflation!

sure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#In_Japan

I love this little snippet:

Quote
Deflation started in the early 1990s. The Bank of Japan and the government tried to eliminate it by reducing interest rates and 'quantitative easing', but did not create a sustained increase in broad money and deflation persisted. In July 2006, the zero-rate policy was ended.

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silverbox
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March 14, 2012, 10:11:01 PM
 #107

phh, thats the fake CPI that says the US has only like 2% inflation, lol.

http://www.wnd.com/2008/03/59409/

A loaf of bread in Japan in 2000 was half the price of today..

As was a gallon of gas..

oh but those don't count.. *rolls eyes*
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March 14, 2012, 10:21:56 PM
 #108

silverbox, unfortunately your argument is a logical fallacy and therefore cannot be taken seriously. You use an anecdotal evidence and using wrong time periods at the same time.

To illustrate, it is like responding on statement like, say "in county X unemployment was rising during period from 1990 to 2006" by saying "no it is false because this guy I know got himself a new job in 2009".

As such, I have no choice but to dismiss your last post as utter nonsense, with all due respect.


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silverbox
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March 14, 2012, 10:25:01 PM
 #109

Yeah, because no one needs to eat or drive..

So its your contention that the price of gas and food didn't inflate in Japan over any multi year time period you want to specify??

Its your contention that the CPI by not including gas and food is a "real" measure of inflation?

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March 14, 2012, 10:46:29 PM
 #110

I would suggest that when talking about deflation in Japan it is not correct to look at commodities and energy prices and it's  derivatives or imported goods simply because those are not that much influenced by Japan's economy or monetary policy. You should really be looking at equities and local real estate prices and wages.

I'd say that the difference between what's going on now in US/EU and the Japanese scenario is that Japan had a little local screw up while the rest of the world basically minded it's own business. While it seem now we are on course to quite a global "cluster f*(^&" here.





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silverbox
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March 14, 2012, 10:57:16 PM
 #111

lol, this reminds me of this cartoon.



Definition of Inflation:  higher prices: an increase in the supply of currency or credit relative to the availability of goods and services, resulting in higher prices and a decrease in the purchasing power of money.

I go by goods and services that the 99% uses/needs.  If thats wrong then so be it, but thats how I define inflation/deflation.

If you want to define it by real estate and equities, so be it Wink,  thats not how I do it.
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March 14, 2012, 11:03:00 PM
 #112

Sure thing. I suppose it very much depends on whether one thinks on how he will continue with his ongoing hand to mouth existence or what kind of pension he will have X years down the road.

But a good one bringing visual aids into the argument, that is a strong move, indeed. No seriously.

P.S. there is an awesome book out there, google "How to Win Every Argument The Use and Abuse of Logic-Mantesh". Know it by heart and you could win this argument, even if you are wrong. Unfortunately some people get upset when you use black magic described there on them. Everything has it's downsides.



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silverbox
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March 14, 2012, 11:05:26 PM
 #113

Sure thing. I suppose it very much depends on whether one thinks on how he will continue with his ongoing hand to mouth existence or what kind of pension he will have X years down the road.



Yup, gotta have hand to mouth before you can figure out 20 years down the road Wink.

But stacking gold isn't going to bite you in the ass in 20 years, I guarantee it Wink
tvbcof
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March 15, 2012, 12:43:15 AM
 #114

...
it'll be an all-one-market effect with USD up and everything else down.  the Fed won't be able to print fast enough and the printing that they do comes with some trepidation b/c if they destroy the USD, their only tool, they then self destruct.

I strongly suspect that TPTB are fully aware of, and largely in control of, the demise of the USD.  Far from 'self destruction', I suspect that it will be a great leap forward for them.

If _I_ were doing the engineering, I would formulate things such that a bulk of the population were in need of the support of the government for survival.  Like having government issued and government re-charged debit cards for buying food, paying bills, obtaining health care, etc.  In this way the population is dis-incentivezed toward picking up guns or stirring up trouble on twitter, and will likely be antagonistic to those who reject the new monetary solution as such people (i.e., us Bitcoin users and those of us who might hold PM's) would be a legitimate threat to their survival.

As an added benefit of such a scheme, inflation could be tuned by putting card holders into debt.  Indebtedness is especially effective in keeping people working for limited pay so that is another feature of such a scheme.


Wink are you by chance selling tinfoil hats?? 

No particular value in that widget...it's pretty easy for the interested consumer to make his own.

To imagine that the people who manage our monetary and political systems are clueless mouth breathers might be fun, but is probably vastly incorrect.  It could be the case, and it could be that something as complex as the federal reserve, BIS, and various departments of state all operate in some mindless random fashion, but it seems unlikely to me.  And I see increasingly less evidence that such entities operate with the well being of the general public as their primary goal.  I make my investment decisions and formulate my 'tinfoil hat' theories accordingly.


silverbox
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March 15, 2012, 01:09:59 AM
 #115

...
it'll be an all-one-market effect with USD up and everything else down.  the Fed won't be able to print fast enough and the printing that they do comes with some trepidation b/c if they destroy the USD, their only tool, they then self destruct.

I strongly suspect that TPTB are fully aware of, and largely in control of, the demise of the USD.  Far from 'self destruction', I suspect that it will be a great leap forward for them.

If _I_ were doing the engineering, I would formulate things such that a bulk of the population were in need of the support of the government for survival.  Like having government issued and government re-charged debit cards for buying food, paying bills, obtaining health care, etc.  In this way the population is dis-incentivezed toward picking up guns or stirring up trouble on twitter, and will likely be antagonistic to those who reject the new monetary solution as such people (i.e., us Bitcoin users and those of us who might hold PM's) would be a legitimate threat to their survival.

As an added benefit of such a scheme, inflation could be tuned by putting card holders into debt.  Indebtedness is especially effective in keeping people working for limited pay so that is another feature of such a scheme.


Wink are you by chance selling tinfoil hats??  

No particular value in that widget...it's pretty easy for the interested consumer to make his own.

To imagine that the people who manage our monetary and political systems are clueless mouth breathers might be fun, but is probably vastly incorrect.  It could be the case, and it could be that something as complex as the federal reserve, BIS, and various departments of state all operate in some mindless random fashion, but it seems unlikely to me.  And I see increasingly less evidence that such entities operate with the well being of the general public as their primary goal.  I make my investment decisions and formulate my 'tinfoil hat' theories accordingly.



I think most of the powers that be have the common good at heart (they will of course look out for #1).  Maybe I'm naive.  But its a big commplicated mess that I don't think anyone really understands completely, and even things that are done with the best of intentions can turn out bad for the 99%.  Its more of a cluster F, then a actively guided means to screw the 99%..
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March 15, 2012, 07:21:37 AM
 #116

...
it'll be an all-one-market effect with USD up and everything else down.  the Fed won't be able to print fast enough and the printing that they do comes with some trepidation b/c if they destroy the USD, their only tool, they then self destruct.

I strongly suspect that TPTB are fully aware of, and largely in control of, the demise of the USD.  Far from 'self destruction', I suspect that it will be a great leap forward for them.

If _I_ were doing the engineering, I would formulate things such that a bulk of the population were in need of the support of the government for survival.  Like having government issued and government re-charged debit cards for buying food, paying bills, obtaining health care, etc.  In this way the population is dis-incentivezed toward picking up guns or stirring up trouble on twitter, and will likely be antagonistic to those who reject the new monetary solution as such people (i.e., us Bitcoin users and those of us who might hold PM's) would be a legitimate threat to their survival.

As an added benefit of such a scheme, inflation could be tuned by putting card holders into debt.  Indebtedness is especially effective in keeping people working for limited pay so that is another feature of such a scheme.


Wink are you by chance selling tinfoil hats?? 

No particular value in that widget...it's pretty easy for the interested consumer to make his own.

To imagine that the people who manage our monetary and political systems are clueless mouth breathers might be fun, but is probably vastly incorrect.  It could be the case, and it could be that something as complex as the federal reserve, BIS, and various departments of state all operate in some mindless random fashion, but it seems unlikely to me.  And I see increasingly less evidence that such entities operate with the well being of the general public as their primary goal.  I make my investment decisions and formulate my 'tinfoil hat' theories accordingly.



I think most of the powers that be have the common good at heart (they will of course look out for #1).  Maybe I'm nieve.  But its a big commplicated mess that I don't think anyone really understands completely, and even things that are done with the best of intentions can turn out bad for the 99%.  Its more of a cluster F, then a actively guided means to screw the 99%..

I lean toward this ... on days that I'm sober

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silverbox
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March 15, 2012, 03:00:41 PM
 #117

gold back up today!

The inverted hammer on AAPL is NOT confirmed!!

Business as usual folks, stuff goes down, then comes back up Wink
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March 15, 2012, 05:53:16 PM
 #118

AAPL going negative.
silverbox
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March 15, 2012, 06:10:53 PM
 #119

Yup.  I actually agree with you on AAPL, I think its about topped out.   They need a new product.  like a phone tablet combo.  call it the "iPHAD"
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March 15, 2012, 06:28:18 PM
 #120

a phone tablet combo.

I have been asking for this for YEARS.  Sounds like the perfect device to me.  But, everyone tells me a tablet sized device would be to big and awkward to hold to your face... I dont think I'd mind.  Im talking about ~7" BTW
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