Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2016, 12:28:03 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 [27] 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 ... 1560 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805784 times)
miscreanity
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 05:06:36 AM
 #521

Paraphrase: "gold and the shares are coiled to spring upwards in an explosive manner.  in my opinion, 1630 was THE BOTTOM."

Oops.



This made me think of the "Fuckjob Candle" from a while back...
1481156883
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156883

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156883
Reply with quote  #2

1481156883
Report to moderator
1481156883
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156883

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156883
Reply with quote  #2

1481156883
Report to moderator
1481156883
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156883

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156883
Reply with quote  #2

1481156883
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481156883
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156883

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156883
Reply with quote  #2

1481156883
Report to moderator
1481156883
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156883

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156883
Reply with quote  #2

1481156883
Report to moderator
1481156883
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481156883

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481156883
Reply with quote  #2

1481156883
Report to moderator
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1988


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 05:18:37 AM
 #522

Paraphrase: "gold and the shares are coiled to spring upwards in an explosive manner.  in my opinion, 1630 was THE BOTTOM."

Oops.



This made me think of the "Fuckjob Candle" from a while back...


I sure am glad that such manipulation never happens with Bitcoin :^)


silverbox
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 02:57:02 PM
 #523

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 05, 2012, 03:13:25 PM
 #524



you communicate with me like my wife. Wink
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 05, 2012, 05:49:56 PM
 #525


silverbox
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 06:02:48 PM
 #526

notme
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 06:34:47 PM
 #527




You mean bitcoin short term, right?

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
miscreanity
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 06:44:23 PM
 #528

USD up to ~80, gold grinding against $1630, Bitcoin holding near $4.90.

USD seems to be straining, gold is showing its perennially gradual ascent, Bitcoin is Bitcoin.

It still looks like the dollar is in danger, gold is hitting discount buying, and Bitcoin is along for the ride. I don't see any earth-shattering changes in the fundamentals. Even the technicals are lacking momentum.
notme
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 06:49:10 PM
 #529

USD up to ~80, gold grinding against $1630, Bitcoin holding near $4.90.

USD seems to be straining, gold is showing its perennially gradual ascent, Bitcoin is Bitcoin.

It still looks like the dollar is in danger, gold is hitting discount buying, and Bitcoin is along for the ride. I don't see any earth-shattering changes in the fundamentals. Even the technicals are lacking momentum.

Must hold out long enough to sell everything.........
When it's gone, the bottom falls out and momentum will develop very quickly.

The fundamentals changed when the realized they could use their liquidity bots to prop things up while they switched their positions.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
April 05, 2012, 06:51:58 PM
 #530

can anyone here tell me where i can sell a few gold ounces for the true physical price?  that is, spot price plus this hidden massive premium that i can't seem to locate anywhere?

i mean a real place where i can sell for that true price.
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1988


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 07:08:44 PM
 #531

USD up to ~80, gold grinding against $1630, Bitcoin holding near $4.90.
...

Just looked for the first time today.  Over 80.  I'm actually quite surprised to see the relationship we see between gold/silver and the USDX today and it strikes me as noteworthy.


SkRRJyTC
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 07:21:41 PM
 #532

can anyone here tell me where i can sell a few gold ounces for the true physical price?  that is, spot price plus this hidden massive premium that i can't seem to locate anywhere?

i mean a real place where i can sell for that true price.

Craigslist. Ebay.
silverbox
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 07:52:53 PM
 #533

can anyone here tell me where i can sell a few gold ounces for the true physical price?  that is, spot price plus this hidden massive premium that i can't seem to locate anywhere?

i mean a real place where i can sell for that true price.

Craigslist. Ebay.

Its hard to get the tightwads on C-list to pay over spot.

You can usually get more then spot on Ebay.  But not alot.

As far as I'm concerned cypherdoc's point is valid, there is no disconnect of physical from spot IMO.

Maybe there will be at some point in the FAR future Wink
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1988


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 08:15:16 PM
 #534

can anyone here tell me where i can sell a few gold ounces for the true physical price?  that is, spot price plus this hidden massive premium that i can't seem to locate anywhere?

i mean a real place where i can sell for that true price.

Craigslist. Ebay.

Its hard to get the tightwads on C-list to pay over spot.

You can usually get more then spot on Ebay.  But not alot.

As far as I'm concerned cypherdoc's point is valid, there is no disconnect of physical from spot IMO.

Maybe there will be at some point in the FAR future Wink

The spread is a cost of doing business when it comes to physical.  In my case it is close to negligible and tax issues are a much bigger factor.  If one plans to flip PMs there is little reason to be dealing with physical and a lot of reasons not to be (imho.)  If one is worried about being MF-Global'd playing with ETFs or something like that, one can still hold a core position in physical.  Unless they don't desire a core position I suppose.


silverbox
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910


View Profile
April 05, 2012, 08:23:46 PM
 #535


  If one plans to flip PMs there is little reason to be dealing with physical and a lot of reasons not to be (imho.)  If one is worried about being MF-Global'd playing with ETFs or something like that, one can still hold a core position in physical. 


Thats what I do, bout half physical and half miner stock/etf (in my online brokerage IRA)
miscreanity
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile
April 06, 2012, 04:17:27 AM
 #536

can anyone here tell me where i can sell a few gold ounces for the true physical price?  that is, spot price plus this hidden massive premium that i can't seem to locate anywhere?

i mean a real place where i can sell for that true price.

Currently, the only place you would be able to find the real price of gold is interbank (even then, not easily - oil producing nations were the only ones demanding gold for their product, which meant that the real value would only apply there and anything else didn't matter) and at the LBMA good delivery bar size - about 400oz. The official public price is like the gold standard was - (relatively) static until the system breaks and gold is publicly revalued.

He who holds the gold makes the rules, and the means of production determines what it will accept in exchange for its product, not the buyer. If the producer will only accept gold for his goods, then he will accumulate gold and therefore wield increasing power. For most of the 20th century, the oil producing powers have made the rules.

However, because oil is a consumable and finite resource, its producers needed a pool to store their accrued wealth that wouldn't go up in smoke. These oil producers already understood that paper currencies didn't store wealth reliably over long periods, particularly having witnessed multiple instances of inflationary wealth destruction. So they demanded a real asset, in this case the most reliable and easily transferred one in history: gold. Others have done extensive research, finding that there has long been a flow of gold to Middle East oil producing nations.

Essentially, there is a black market for gold that is more powerful than the official markets. It is off-limits unless you are a producer on a global scale. No gold, no oil.

A similar scenario (not exactly the same) is playing out as occurred in the 1970s: the financial system has over-extended itself on multiple fronts and the asset demanded for payment is in short supply. America and most other Western nations have put themselves into a dangerous position wherein they're dependent upon external resources and don't have enough of what the externals want to be paid in to keep acquiring those resources.

Let's say you want potable water for your farm, but you're unable to acquire it yourself; I have clean water in excess.

You suggest an exchange, but you have USD and I want rhodium; since rhodium is very limited, we come to an agreement in which you pay me 90% in USD and 10% in rhodium.

Over time, you start paying with greater than 90% USD and I call you on it by halting the water supply; without water, you risk your crops and even your own death, so you quickly start supplying the 10% rhodium agreed upon again.

More time goes by and you've saved a bundle in USD, which you've convinced everyone to readily accept (except for me); with all of your USD savings, you retire from farming and import much of what you need, still paying me rhodium for water.

A generation later with a dwindling pile of USD supporting a growing family, your children decide they want to keep the party going by making more USD.

Again the water payments start to be made with >90% USD, but this time the rhodium supply is almost gone; when I demand a resumption of the 10% rhodium payments, you (your children) have the arrogance to threaten me; I sell the water I was selling to you, to someone else; you panic and start paying again, but now I'm stockpiling guns & ammo while brushing up on my CQC & Krav Maga.

Once more, you start missing rhodium payments and I'm tired of getting piles of USD that are rapidly depreciating; the price of water is now rising and you're almost out of rhodium, so you try throwing your weight around but find you can't subdue me that easily; it's now getting to a point where others are fed up with your USD as well, so it buys even less water than before.

Since you're out of rhodium and I don't want USD in exchange but recognise the potential danger of your whole family coming after me, I offer a compromise: I'll accept your USD but only provide a bare minimum trickle of water; you will be too weak to fight me head-on if you barely have enough water to survive, and more so if others stop accepting your USD for their resources while I sell them my excess water.

If you go back to working your own farm, you might survive or you might not have enough resources now to live through a full cycle of seasons; your decision now is: try forcing myself and everyone else to keep supporting you, or do work that you barely even remember and consider beneath you.

... WWIII

Rhodium could be held by everyone, but the only place where the true value is realised is in exchange for water. The question then is: how many have enough productive capacity and are asking for rhodium? It's vitally important that the dollar be accepted everywhere. You can imagine the results if it isn't - an arrogant, dying superpower will almost certainly make a final do-or-die effort at maintaining its domination over the world rather than humble itself and suffer some painful introspection.

A movie that portrays the mechanics properly is Rollover. While Western nations view gold as an archaic lump of metal, much of the world sees it as protection from risk in the West.

America needs an intervention. Gold is its cure (with a side of Bitcoin).

(The problem is that the cure will probably kill the patient at this point.)
miscreanity
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile
April 06, 2012, 04:23:03 AM
 #537

The fundamentals changed when the realized they could use their liquidity bots to prop things up while they switched their positions.

HFT algos don't do anything other than shuffle numbers around. If Apple puts out a crappy product and the bots still push the price up, that has nothing to do with the fundamentals - it's just vapour. The game is still zero-sum, no matter how much the notional values rise.
miscreanity
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile
April 06, 2012, 04:41:05 AM
 #538

As far as I'm concerned cypherdoc's point is valid, there is no disconnect of physical from spot IMO.

Maybe there will be at some point in the FAR future Wink

Not yet, at least that's visible to us mortals. The separation occurs suddenly and is closer than you think.

The spread is a cost of doing business when it comes to physical.  In my case it is close to negligible and tax issues are a much bigger factor.  If one plans to flip PMs there is little reason to be dealing with physical and a lot of reasons not to be (imho.)  If one is worried about being MF-Global'd playing with ETFs or something like that, one can still hold a core position in physical.  Unless they don't desire a core position I suppose.

It's funny you mention taxes - that's effectively a premium paid to government (funding your own oppression?). If you have to pay a 28% tax on an inert chunk of metal that doesn't produce anything, it suggests that the price according to gov't is at least a third higher than official valuation. Of course, that might only be the tax rate necessary to keep the oil bill current. Have you noticed the scramble to close tax haven loopholes in recent years? Watch for governments to bring precious metal into the fold with incentives like they're doing with corporate profits held overseas, then raise taxes...

"Sure, we'll throw out all the back taxes on those billions we wanted - now just step into my lair... closer..."

Thats what I do, bout half physical and half miner stock/etf (in my online brokerage IRA)

Smart. Good to keep some gold outside of your home country as well - just in case.
silverbox
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 910


View Profile
April 06, 2012, 06:34:03 AM
 #539

Smart. Good to keep some gold outside of your home country as well - just in case.


I ain't leaving.  But I might bury a 6" pvc tube with a rifle/ammo, some gear, and just maybe some gold/silver.. lol
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1988


View Profile
April 06, 2012, 07:43:10 PM
 #540

The spread is a cost of doing business when it comes to physical.  In my case it is close to negligible and tax issues are a much bigger factor.  If one plans to flip PMs there is little reason to be dealing with physical and a lot of reasons not to be (imho.)  If one is worried about being MF-Global'd playing with ETFs or something like that, one can still hold a core position in physical.  Unless they don't desire a core position I suppose.

It's funny you mention taxes - that's effectively a premium paid to government (funding your own oppression?). If you have to pay a 28% tax on an inert chunk of metal that doesn't produce anything, it suggests that the price according to gov't is at least a third higher than official valuation. Of course, that might only be the tax rate necessary to keep the oil bill current. Have you noticed the scramble to close tax haven loopholes in recent years? Watch for governments to bring precious metal into the fold with incentives like they're doing with corporate profits held overseas, then raise taxes...


Taxes don't bother me as much as they seem to bother a lot of people.  I guess it's in part 'cuz I'm a lib.  If I made some bucks on PMs, I did so in a society which facilitated it so I'm happy enough to support that society.

It bothers me that my tax dollars are going toward killing innocent people in other countries.  It bothers me that corporations buy politicians so that a) they can shirk their own responsibility for taxes and b) they can use _my_ tax dollars to fund illegal wars which benefit them much more than they benefit me.  But, at the end of the day, not paying my taxes is a counterproductive way to 'change the system' and is likely to bring me trouble which I don't need. 

Thats what I do, bout half physical and half miner stock/etf (in my online brokerage IRA)

Smart. Good to keep some gold outside of your home country as well - just in case.


I also have interest in keeping some of my PMs off-shore.  The difficulties I perceive here are that I have little confidence that a financial institution in a foreign country would put my interests first in the event of a crisis or catastrophe.  I could easily see them drilling all foreign owned safe deposit boxes, for instance.  Particularly if that country happened to end up allied with the US and the US issued instructions to do so.  I am not blessed with any trustworthy private partners to operate on my behalf in a foreign land.  A secondary issues is that I doubt it would be practical to travel freely in a situation that I am trying to protect against.  So, my stash might be in Switzerland, but my ass cannot get beyond TSA to go get it.

I'll note again that one of the HUGE draws of Bitcoin, to me, was that it would allow a transfer of PMs between two mutually interested but non-trusting parties in different parts of the world.  That is, a transfer of, say, KRs could be ratcheted in using Bitcoin while keeping the transfer safe from a high percentage loss and relatively private from prying eyes.

Probably the way to pull it off would be for the principles to travel to the respective foreign counties while leaving their stashes in the care of a local trusted individual.  The transfer then gets ratcheted in, and the principles drifts off to do whatever they are going to do with their newly transferred loot.


Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 [27] 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 ... 1560 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!