[ANN][BURST] Burst | Efficient HDD Mining | New 1.2.3 Fork block 92000

[callmejack]

if something is hacked, it would be bad. but i dont think so.


a fews pages before people compain about that the diff is not rising and the intrest in the coin is not increasing.

now we have growing number of accounts, rising diff.... so what is better?

This growth is unnatural. Someone is trying to capture a very large network, the number of people increased by 1-2, and the network has doubled.

i think simply some people finished plotting their farms.

diff fluctuation --> if you know how to plot and if you have the compute resources to do so you drive down the whole io performance of your storage to a minimum to write the plots.
with only a few few compute nodes i maintained a constant write rate above 80 mb/s on the rigs over network using the java plotter days back.

network growth --> the diff is increasing during the last seven days. in this time you can plot about 50 tb at this rate.
summed up this means there are only about 100 new mining rigs involved.
if you can add 10 6tb hdds to an old gpu rig it is what people seem to have done.
there is no magic, huge money nor any kind of energy intense mining involved.

costs --> a simple invest of almost 30k $ was enough to double the diff today.
if more people invest in mining rigs the diff stabilizes more and more 

[Faust Roland]

if something is hacked, it would be bad. but i dont think so.


a fews pages before people compain about that the diff is not rising and the intrest in the coin is not increasing.

now we have growing number of accounts, rising diff.... so what is better?

This growth is unnatural. Someone is trying to capture a very large network, the number of people increased by 1-2, and the network has doubled.

i think simply some people finished plotting their farms.

diff fluctuation --> if you know how to plot and if you have the compute resources to do so you drive down the whole io performance of your storage to a minimum to write the plots.
with only a few few compute nodes i maintained a constant write rate above 80 mb/s on the rigs over network using the java plotter days back.

network growth --> the diff is increasing during the last seven days. in this time you can plot about 50 tb at this rate.
summed up this means there are only about 100 new mining rigs involved.
if you can add 10 6tb hdds to an old gpu rig it is what people seem to have done.
there is no magic, huge money nor any kind of energy intense mining involved.

costs --> a simple invest of almost 30k $ was enough to double the diff today.
if more people invest in mining rigs the diff stabilizes more and more 

List of block producers of the last 3000 blocks
http://pastebin.com/iPu6xEn8

BURST-M78H-JUVQ-VKJG-3H3HL mined 61 blocks which is ~120-140TB  (according to my plots size and mined blocks in this period)

[bobafett]

jap should bei 140tb from the biggest, compared to my 60tb.....

[katlogic]

Did a cursory analysis...

Thanks, that make sense, even if I believed each wallet/server/computer would have more capacity than that.

15-30TB indeed does not make much sense for rigs built exclusively for burstcoin, however the numbers do add up for VPS providers. Top of the line 12+ core CPUs (commonly used in the field where density is super important) can plot at 100Mbyte/s, which will finish plotting that capacity in ~1-3 days.

If this is indeed the case, our disruptive friend uses at least 100 of those. Servers can be added or repurposed very quickly, but is otherwise super unprofitable compared to dedicated rigs built for long-term mining. Economically, we get the picture of cloud provider using surplus server capacity (or more likely, their slightly unethical employee :).

Can you please expand on how you did the analysis?

Very crudely, just like dev (clicking in wallet). Then also ad-hoc querying the API. I will publish some tools once I get more time for this (and the network settles for a bit, so extrapolating statistics will make more sense).

[mmmaybe]

if something is hacked, it would be bad. but i dont think so.


a fews pages before people compain about that the diff is not rising and the intrest in the coin is not increasing.

now we have growing number of accounts, rising diff.... so what is better?

This growth is unnatural. Someone is trying to capture a very large network, the number of people increased by 1-2, and the network has doubled.

Stop with the (hacking) nonsense. Nothing has been hacked.

6 petabytes, 8 petabytes, or even 10-15 petabytes aren't that much. Even a simple miner with a decent sized NAS and a few desktop computers can have 100TB. Or someone on a computer-heavy small company in charge of 15 servers can have it. We also know that koko is selling mining power of 80TBs each.

I'm pretty certain there are a bunch of miners like that, who together have a few PBs. In this thread, we even had a guy with 400TBs. In addition to that we have hundreds of miners with +10TBs.

Considering that, the network has been small as far as I'm concerned.


What has happened now is very simple: A few major data centers have begun to use previously unused space to mine Burst. 5-10PBs aren't much for guys like that.


However, the development is, still, worrying in my opinion.

Firstly, we have a risk of an 51% attack, with forks and a fucked up blockchain. The intention of bringing on several PBs could very well be malicious, to mess with the coin and even launch a clone to replace Burst.

Secondly, even if they only have good intentions, like simply making money, that could also be troublesome. With many PBs, they surely are making of lot of coins. That also gives them a lot of power. So far we haven't seen any increased sells on the exchanges, but that can simply be because they haven't been active very long and are accumulating. If they start dumping, one 4BTC buy wall on Polo is nothing. If they are only a few actors, they can control the market very well and we'll go to pump-and-dump hell.


What we can hope for is that the increased network isn't because of a single actor. Lets hope they are five, ten or 25 who heard about the possibility of making money with their servers. That would decrease the risks above significantly.

The only thing we can do is following the development.

An even bigger increase in network size could actually be a good thing if we now more or less are dealing with a single actor; if more big actors join, we will make less coins but the power would be more differentiated. Another positive thing is that many millions already been mined and the decreasing block award will make it harder to accumulate for all.

[mmmaybe]

Did a cursory analysis...

Thanks, that make sense, even if I believed each wallet/server/computer would have more capacity than that.

15-30TB indeed does not make much sense for rigs built exclusively for burstcoin, however the numbers do add up for VPS providers. Top of the line 12+ core CPUs (commonly used in the field where density is super important) can plot at 100Mbyte/s, which will finish plotting that capacity in ~1-3 days.

If this is indeed the case, our disruptive friend uses at least 100 of those. Servers can be added or repurposed very quickly, but is otherwise super unprofitable compared to dedicated rigs built for long-term mining. [---]

Thanks, that's an interesting theory I thought of something along those lines, but didn't think rented vps' would be economically feasible but I didn't check prizes.

If rented space would be the explanation, we are looking at something similar to what happened to monero this summer with amazon (AWS). Great story worth reading btw: http://da-data.blogspot.se/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

[mmmaybe]

List of block producers of the last 3000 blocks
http://pastebin.com/iPu6xEn8

BURST-M78H-JUVQ-VKJG-3H3HL mined 61 blocks which is ~120-140TB  (according to my plots size and mined blocks in this period)

Thanks

[xizmax]

Did a cursory analysis...

Thanks, that make sense, even if I believed each wallet/server/computer would have more capacity than that.

15-30TB indeed does not make much sense for rigs built exclusively for burstcoin, however the numbers do add up for VPS providers. Top of the line 12+ core CPUs (commonly used in the field where density is super important) can plot at 100Mbyte/s, which will finish plotting that capacity in ~1-3 days.

If this is indeed the case, our disruptive friend uses at least 100 of those. Servers can be added or repurposed very quickly, but is otherwise super unprofitable compared to dedicated rigs built for long-term mining. [---]

Thanks, that's an interesting theory I thought of something along those lines, but didn't think rented vps' would be economically feasible but I didn't check prizes.

If rented space would be the explanation, we are looking at something similar to what happened to monero this summer with amazon (AWS). Great story worth reading btw: http://da-data.blogspot.se/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

If a coin is an inadequately prepared CPU coin, aws can spell doom. Botnets are also a threat. That is something that was obvious from the start even for a crypto nab such as me.

Burst can indeed be vulnerable to some big actors, so we should hope for an organic rise. Not rise concentrated in few hands.

EDIT: The article is a very nice read

[q327K091]

many leave their drives mining and forget about them, many use USB drives, so the network hash will always be somewhat steady

someone indeed packed , continues to pack massive drives.. and price ain't going up! so he/she either a) waits for it to go up b) drives he got are free + electrical (which adds up with more drives. not like its ultra low) looks like some previous trials were performed and now he/she finally got it running steady.. for everyone else good luck to get 1000 BURST a day where before was 5 x as much

1000 BURST a day.. at 112 sat.. is.. well you do the math it is cents   a drive failure could mean -150$ in the negative.. (and 50 T multiple drives failure could mean -1,000$ in the negative) good luck to us all  

at 12 Peta network capacity , even if you have 100 T drives and congratulations if you do, you are looking at low payouts.. which is craaazy because magnetic storage is not cheap.. I don't know how people are doing.. but this sure aint economical at least not Today

[bobafett]

at the moment i have the problem, that i want to invest in this coin, because i belive in it. but for the last week i tryied to buy for about 3btc burst. but is hard to find anyone who wants to sell. i needed about two days, to find enough seller to purchase burst for 1btc....

i got the feeling, everybody is waiting for ne next bump. and the bump will come, if the dev release a new feature and show us all, that there is a development progress......

@burstcoin
perhaps you could give us a little update about the release of a new version....would be nice.

[katlogic]

15-30TB indeed does not make much sense for rigs built exclusively for burstcoin, however the numbers do add up for VPS providers. Top of the line 12+ core CPUs (commonly used in the field where density is super important) can plot at 100Mbyte/s, which will finish plotting that capacity in ~1-3 days.

If this is indeed the case, our disruptive friend uses at least 100 of those. Servers can be added or repurposed very quickly, but is otherwise super unprofitable compared to dedicated rigs built for long-term mining. [---]

Thanks, that's an interesting theory I thought of something along those lines, but didn't think rented vps' would be economically feasible but I didn't check prizes.

If rented space would be the explanation, we are looking at something similar to what happened to monero this summer with amazon (AWS). Great story worth reading btw: http://da-data.blogspot.se/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

I was speculating about short term rational miner (ie they already have the capacity, better mine burst, than race to the bottom VPS market).

It's not profitable to rent at current excahnge prices, by at least a factor of three wholesale price at the very best (by factor of ten with street prices for small miners).

It could be rented in the hopes that they could corner the market (and price shoots up) - not dumping would certainly align with that theory. In addition, they seem to have about 30-40% of network - right below of the 51% where everyone panics. This is IMO still huge gamble unless other whale accepts the invitation. Interesting times can happen - not unlike bitcoin ASIC whales in the beginning, but this time with spot rented storage on massive scale. All very wild speculation, for what we know, the miner could dump their coins any day, stop mining, and never to be seen again, only time can somewhat confirm their intentions (assuming they wont come out as a stealth startup or something).

[q327K091]

@katlogic great points ... also imagine if network capacity shoots up pass 20 Peta.. believe many will disconnect drives and further consolidate power in few hands, data centers magnetic storage is not cheap.. and rentals I see here being 80T won't suffice and yearly contract ? at 20 Peta ? might not even pay for itself.. so.. not negative here by any means.. and problems with BURST is like with anything else, consolidation in few hands.. so there is also BURST "assets" that somehow could yield value.. I just don't know

the "sweet" spot was around 5 Peta.. at which point 1000's of workstation could build up holdings.. given max number of coins.. equals nice distribution..  at 20 Peta.. there will be 50 workstations if that many

will be a bit sarcastic here the 50 workstations will then buy and sell BURST to each other at 1 satoshi.. I hope not.. joking a bit, but you get my points

[yellowduck2]

anybody want to guess the price on Christmas ? Maybe the person who connected massive space is planning to do a Christmas pump.

[katlogic]

will be a bit sarcastic here the 50 workstations will then buy and sell BURST to each other at 1 satoshi.. I hope not.. joking a bit, but you get my points

I was kinda hoping it wouldn't be the case in the begining, but now its obvious BURST is suspectible to industrial mining like anything else.

It never really claimed otherwise - coin distribution "fairness" (what? you gotta pay big in order to win big, assuming you can afford to ignite the feedback loop. Thus no fairness at all - at least Marx says so.) is a bit of pipe dream in cryptocurrency world - with the possible exception of early adopters.

The selling point of BURST is that it's much greener than CPU mining (capex/opex ratio is much better than PoW). Accidentaly, thats what makes it more suitable for DIY mining at home.

Anyone can easily have 3PB in their garage - it's only ~3-4kW of power or so (opex), but initial investment is huge - $100k (capex). ASIC miners worth of $100k consume at least ten times more. The need for air conditioning favours large warehouse operations, not garages, but DIY at home might not last forever either - the most efficient juke-box based BURST systems take a lot of space.

[crowetic]

Hello,  

Im trying to setup for a Mining Pool,  Im having 3 Problems

Problem #1
{"errorCode":5,"errorDescription":"Unknown account"}  
From what i read i need 1 Burstcoin to Join can someone Kindly Help me out with a burst Coin to Wallet
BURST-BMFQ-H26K-4YW2-G3ZFD  Or   16552946861088230838
I also Read that i will need to Provide
2a3a6aa0d54915b6505bdeab5c8fd0da6f3f597c1a9ac2997c1ba2a89f8b2056
( both faucets are not working for me)

[---]

I've sent you some coins. When you receive it, you have to send some coins somewhere to secure the account.


***Edit: http://faucet.burstcoin.info was empty, I sent 1000 coins. Feel free to donate some so new miners can get started.

Just threw 5k to the faucet.

[smaxer]

Yes.

On the other hand, a smart big actor doesn't want to have one huge wallet where the transactions can be pinpointed ("x sent y million to polo now!"). I do think Burst has gotten more users and that contributes to the network size, but also that one or several big actors are creating new wallets not to draw attention to a single wallet getting really huge/traceable.

Did a cursory analysis. Some of the new wallets seem to solo mine with comparably high hash rate (15-30TB at least, as some have interval between blocks a day or two), spotted about a dozen - for example recent one - http://burstcoin.eu/address/14335543884474859574 . My working theory its a big miner op, with separate wallet per each server.

This seems to go along with what I've noticed just looking at the recent block list in the wallet. It seems there are a large number of blocks found recently by accounts that have no transactions and have only found 1-2 blocks.

Really interesting! Do the accounts stop mining after finding one or two blocks??

I added a new feature to the "forged blocks" stats. Here you can see which accounts found the most blocks in the last 7 days: http://burstcoin.eu/charts/addresses-by-forged-blocks/week

You can also change the period to last 24 hours, last 30 days or all time.

[bobafett]

All Top 10 adresses are mining since 3 weeks.... so they are new to burst, but they mining to long to explain the diff increase of 4pb since a week.......

[mmmaybe]

Hello,  

Im trying to setup for a Mining Pool,  Im having 3 Problems

Problem #1
{"errorCode":5,"errorDescription":"Unknown account"}  
From what i read i need 1 Burstcoin to Join can someone Kindly Help me out with a burst Coin to Wallet
BURST-BMFQ-H26K-4YW2-G3ZFD  Or   16552946861088230838
I also Read that i will need to Provide
2a3a6aa0d54915b6505bdeab5c8fd0da6f3f597c1a9ac2997c1ba2a89f8b2056
( both faucets are not working for me)

[---]

I've sent you some coins. When you receive it, you have to send some coins somewhere to secure the account.


***Edit: http://faucet.burstcoin.info was empty, I sent 1000 coins. Feel free to donate some so new miners can get started.

Just threw 5k to the faucet.

Generous as always   Thanks!

[mmmaybe]

I added a new feature to the "forged blocks" stats. Here you can see which accounts found the most blocks in the last 7 days: http://burstcoin.eu/charts/addresses-by-forged-blocks/week

You can also change the period to last 24 hours, last 30 days or all time.

What great new feature, especially in times like these!  The whole site is excellent, btw 

[q327K091]

will be a bit sarcastic here the 50 workstations will then buy and sell BURST to each other at 1 satoshi.. I hope not.. joking a bit, but you get my points

I was kinda hoping it wouldn't be the case in the begining, but now its obvious BURST is suspectible to industrial mining like anything else.

It never really claimed otherwise - coin distribution "fairness" (what? you gotta pay big in order to win big, assuming you can afford to ignite the feedback loop. Thus no fairness at all - at least Marx says so.) is a bit of pipe dream in cryptocurrency world - with the possible exception of early adopters.

The selling point of BURST is that it's much greener than CPU mining (capex/opex ratio is much better than PoW). Accidentaly, thats what makes it more suitable for DIY mining at home.

Anyone can easily have 3PB in their garage - it's only ~3-4kW of power or so (opex), but initial investment is huge - $100k (capex). ASIC miners worth of $100k consume at least ten times more. The need for air conditioning favours large warehouse operations, not garages, but DIY at home might not last forever either - the most efficient juke-box based BURST systems take a lot of space.

awesome post... people forget something.. they forget that one can not force anyone to purchase their capex expenditures  

so unless industrial miner slows down, no one will invest ... however IF number of accounts goes up EVEN at high low whatever network capacity , that is good.. very good and investors do pay attention to that (savvy investors) checking # of accounts as we speak..

also magnetic drives manufactures could easily corner this   although there are specific Federal regulations against it.. but in foreign countries who knows! regardless my statement above applies to them as well.. they can mine even 80% coin supply and end up with no buyers