[ANN][BURST] Burst | Efficient HDD Mining | New 1.2.3 Fork block 92000

[q327K091]

if its really botnet , new PoC coin will have a hard time fighting them. They pretty much own the whole network. It's not easy to build up network size for the first couple of weeks. Therefore, botnet is consider good news ? Botnet will be a good anti clone ? Or perhaps those botnet owner is burst developer ?

it is a human being (with > 100 accounts, cloned and prepared in advanced in quite premeditated way, but by a person probably with access to some VPS at a BIG expense or he/she managed to inject plots in illicit way and bypassed sys admin audit), and he is closely watching your reactions, CPU coins botnets are proven to exists, POS type of botnets I can not imagine being the case, someone made me laugh here suggesting utilization of browser html5 storage , funny.. botnet would have to in stealth inject massive plot file and do so without system admins knowing that (and storage is valued and monitored) maybe some data center(s) failed to notice their storage being suddenly depleted lol

now there are botnets runnins on exchanges manipulating prices of many alt coins , that is a separate problem

anyways interesting drama is unfolding here , stopping calling him/she an idiot because there is nothing wrong with making money, it is just that he/she might lose shirt in the process before that happens

all you need to do is plot a small file (relatively speaking), say 50 GB. so 100 computers can add up to 5TB and 1000 bots give you 50TB. this is a low back of the napkin estimate.

but a "smart" operator would code it up so that it takes up say half of available disk and with large drives out there, you're talking several hundred GB per plot file are very likely. you can plot say a 1000 files across 1000 computers all for 1 account you can have them setup in proxy/pool mining.
the large swings could be computers being turned off and on in different time zones?  once a file is plotted, mining is pretty much unnoticeable.

anyway, this is possible, but I'm probably wrong

but the network size oscillates 15T then 8T and 7T then back up again... and all at once all these computers would have to turn on and off at the same time

drama continues

also we can not tell IP (because it is solo) if "it" would connect to the pool, would be different we would know immediate what is going on

also not just weekend, weekdays too, workplace possibly , supercomputing data center and virtual attached storage partitioned, plots sneaked in (but not the full) also I would expect to be 20P right now and growing if unlimited, so there is a definite limit to what "it" is doing, pretty funny all this, at 20 P all others mining activities would halt to the stand still.. so that is why "it" might also not do it (oscillations are like giving a carrot, teasing), yeah folks "IT" is playing you all like a violin

also "IT" might be moving plots around (which takes time) to avoid detection

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[bobafett]

if i look at the problems of some pools are suddenly offline for hours, then again online, like urasy in the last weeks perhaps. This could also be an explanation.

And: How is the networksize calculatet. Could the size counted so exactly <- just asking, i dont know, how this is calculated....

[FakeAccount]

if its really botnet , new PoC coin will have a hard time fighting them. They pretty much own the whole network. It's not easy to build up network size for the first couple of weeks. Therefore, botnet is consider good news ? Botnet will be a good anti clone ? Or perhaps those botnet owner is burst developer ?

it is a human being (with > 100 accounts, cloned and prepared in advanced in quite premeditated way, but by a person probably with access to some VPS at a BIG expense or he/she managed to inject plots in illicit way and bypassed sys admin audit), and he is closely watching your reactions, CPU coins botnets are proven to exists, POS type of botnets I can not imagine being the case, someone made me laugh here suggesting utilization of browser html5 storage , funny.. botnet would have to in stealth inject massive plot file and do so without system admins knowing that (and storage is valued and monitored) maybe some data center(s) failed to notice their storage being suddenly depleted lol

now there are botnets runnins on exchanges manipulating prices of many alt coins , that is a separate problem

anyways interesting drama is unfolding here , stopping calling him/she an idiot because there is nothing wrong with making money, it is just that he/she might lose shirt in the process before that happens

all you need to do is plot a small file (relatively speaking), say 50 GB. so 100 computers can add up to 5TB and 1000 bots give you 50TB. this is a low back of the napkin estimate.

but a "smart" operator would code it up so that it takes up say half of available disk and with large drives out there, you're talking several hundred GB per plot file are very likely. you can plot say a 1000 files across 1000 computers all for 1 account you can have them setup in proxy/pool mining.
the large swings could be computers being turned off and on in different time zones?  once a file is plotted, mining is pretty much unnoticeable.

anyway, this is possible, but I'm probably wrong

but the network size oscillates 15T then 8T and 7T then back up again... and all at once all these computers would have to turn on and off at the same time

drama continues

also we can not tell IP (because it is solo) if "it" would connect to the pool, would be different we would know immediate what is going on

also not just weekend, weekdays too, workplace possibly , supercomputing data center and virtual attached storage partitioned, plots sneaked in (but not the full) also I would expect to be 20P right now and growing if unlimited, so there is a definite limit to what "it" is doing, pretty funny all this, at 20 P all others mining activities would halt to the stand still.. so that is why "it" might also not do it (oscillations to it is like giving a carrot, teasing)

they would never connect to a pool, but would mine via a solo proxy setup.  (blago's miner can do that for ex. so code from it can be modified/borrowed)
could they also be re-plotting so that the 50% swings appear?  someone mentioned that new files are "luckier" initially by as much as 30%? if so, someone could be just using this method too re-plot a bunch of smaller files spread across many computers.

[THeZoiD]

if its really botnet , new PoC coin will have a hard time fighting them. They pretty much own the whole network. It's not easy to build up network size for the first couple of weeks. Therefore, botnet is consider good news ? Botnet will be a good anti clone ? Or perhaps those botnet owner is burst developer ?

it is a human being (with > 100 accounts, cloned and prepared in advanced in quite premeditated way, but by a person probably with access to some VPS at a BIG expense or he/she managed to inject plots in illicit way and bypassed sys admin audit), and he is closely watching your reactions, CPU coins botnets are proven to exists, POS type of botnets I can not imagine being the case, someone made me laugh here suggesting utilization of browser html5 storage , funny.. botnet would have to in stealth inject massive plot file and do so without system admins knowing that (and storage is valued and monitored) maybe some data center(s) failed to notice their storage being suddenly depleted lol

now there are botnets runnins on exchanges manipulating prices of many alt coins , that is a separate problem

anyways interesting drama is unfolding here , stopping calling him/she an idiot because there is nothing wrong with making money, it is just that he/she might lose shirt in the process before that happens

maybe they found a way to put a 100 account number in the plots and code the miners to use the right one

so the same 50 tb plots use a hundred time...

[q327K091]

someone found a way to package plots in tor network , which would spread like a wildfire part of big tor is some real app and mining software might not red flag virus scanners, tor gets delivered unpacked by a poor and unsuspecting individual , part of the app is mining software that taps to tor file, but these oscillations.... mining software might coordinate activities of all clients notify all to turn and and off to give impression of "human activity" at work

logic here why tor is because tor files often are big tera bytes big and they would escape scrutiny

anyone knows if blago mining app is detected by virus scanners ?

what is even more funny is that http://cryptomining.farm/ will also give out big bonus to "it" as it will not know how to differentiate 

[FakeAccount]

someone found a way to package plots in tor network , which would spread like a wildfire part of big tor is some real app and mining software might not red flag virus scanners, tor gets delivered unpacked by a poor and unsuspecting individual , part of the app is mining software that taps to tor file, but these oscillations.... mining software might coordinate activities of all clients notify all to turn and and off to give impression of "human activity" at work

logic here why tor is because tor files often are big tera bytes big and they would escape scrutiny

anyone knows if blago mining app is detected by virus scanners ?

what is even more funny is that http://cryptomining.farm/ will also give out big bonus to "it" as it will not know how to differentiate 

there's no reason for blago's mining app to be labeled as a virus
tor, not likely.  tor is run and used by computer savvy folks

[m3ta]

Pool Statistics are now in Public Beta. -> http://burst4.me/poolstats/
Please have a look and tell me any strange data. (Statistics are still being generated, Reward Assignment is only aviable from today on)

Good stuff.
Kudos! 

[Blago]

anyone knows if blago mining app is detected by virus scanners ?

check https://www.virustotal.com/ru/file/f3cb4f198edde92605c7ae6a18553c1eeb7e4ecccc12cc60ccee2d3c0b52df9e/analysis/1417890296/
code https://github.com/Blagodarenko/miner-burst

[mafostedu]

I don't think there is any data center &/or single person involved in sudden rise of difficulty.
If somebody can dig more into http://burstcoin.eu/charts/addresses-by-forged-blocks/week we don't see any new account who has forged more than 15 blocks in past week !
almost 95% accounts with more than 15 blocks (2 or more blocks per day = just 50-60 TB) in past week are 2-3 months old.
I guess the sudden drop & rise of the difficulty depends on the method of counting it.
Just like yesterday we came to know why number of miners are less than the actual number of miners per pool because it is based on the block finder.
May be it is the reason why we see sudden increase & drop of network difficulty. I mentioned it earlier also about more than a month back but nobody answered at the time.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=731923.msg9334291#msg9334291

I also doubted the same thing about data center & blaa blaa but now looking at the past week's block finder I doubt that any data center thing is involved.
Mostly it's like more & more people with considerable amount of free space have involved in BurstMining recently & due to some different counting method we see sudden rise & drop cycles in difficulty. May be Dev or the person who has established that difficulty counting method can explain this thing with more detail.

[unsoindovo]

What's wrong with you people?   "We are all dooomed" - or what?

The difficulty rises about 20% and you are speculating about botnets and one big player?!
This kind of rise in difficulty is expected and no anomaly at all. The weeks without rise in difficulty were the anomaly and to worry about. The network grows, the number of wallet grows with it. Nothing to worry about at all.

The problem with this is it will push out small miners like myself where electric is not dirt cheap and we can not get stellar deals on hardware. That is why I shyed away from home bitcoin mining and just do cloud mining. Having physical mining hardware just is more interesting (although more work of course)

difficulty goes high... small miner, who write here, lode interest...
and go away!!!

 

in the last days the thread had less post...

[katlogic]

I also doubted the same thing about data center & blaa blaa but now looking at the past week's block finder I doubt that any data center thing is involved.
Mostly it's like more & more people with considerable amount of free space have involved in BurstMining recently &

Nope, the mystery miner is pretty real (chances of it being a coincidence and a lot of people being very lucky are fairly astronomical at this point). Their wallets were identified several pages ago. It appears to be at least 35% hashpower, (diff increased from 6PB to 10PB).

due to some different counting method we see sudden rise & drop cycles in difficulty. May be Dev or the person who has established that difficulty counting method can explain this thing with more detail.

Not dev, but hope my half-assed lecture on basic statistics will be enough:



Roll a fair dice, you can get number between 1 to 6. How many times you need to throw a dice to get 3.5 on average with <1% error? At least 400 times. Same goes for burst difficulty - burst averages last 23 averages and current roll, a so called moving average which skews towards present (ie past is less significant). Both small sample size and moving average are to blame here. Note that such "gravity well" algorithms in various alts are equally "flawed" (to the point of being fairly dangerous - when the near-past average skews too much, it enables timewarp attacks, though that's mostly faulty implementations to blame).

This is why bitcoin uses 14 day sample size with no smooth readjusting of difficulty, and the +-2 times cap - to cap oscillations arising from overshoots in adjustment because of imperfect sample size. It has also no regards for past history (randomness has no memory, its just fluff).

TL:DR: It's a slightly wrong implementation based on wrong assumptions, however no showstopper. I'd recommend hard fork to fix this only in case theres proof it's indeed exploitable condition, and not just an oddity. The jumps in burst will be always at least roughly +-30% because thats the best you can get with 24 samples. When network is 10PB, it jumps between 13 and 7. when network was 6PB, it jumped between 4 and 8 and so on.

[xizmax]

What's wrong with you people?   "We are all dooomed" - or what?

The difficulty rises about 20% and you are speculating about botnets and one big player?!
This kind of rise in difficulty is expected and no anomaly at all. The weeks without rise in difficulty were the anomaly and to worry about. The network grows, the number of wallet grows with it. Nothing to worry about at all.

The problem with this is it will push out small miners like myself where electric is not dirt cheap and we can not get stellar deals on hardware. That is why I shyed away from home bitcoin mining and just do cloud mining. Having physical mining hardware just is more interesting (although more work of course)

difficulty goes high... small miner, who write here, lode interest...
and go away!!!

 

in the last days the thread had less post...

It is still one of the more active topics I follow. Also I am still mining with my small plots, no matter the difficulty, not in it only for the $.

Though if Burst gets established enough, I have no doubts we'll be seeing the "bitcoin scenario".

[unsoindovo]

What's wrong with you people?   "We are all dooomed" - or what?

The difficulty rises about 20% and you are speculating about botnets and one big player?!
This kind of rise in difficulty is expected and no anomaly at all. The weeks without rise in difficulty were the anomaly and to worry about. The network grows, the number of wallet grows with it. Nothing to worry about at all.

The problem with this is it will push out small miners like myself where electric is not dirt cheap and we can not get stellar deals on hardware. That is why I shyed away from home bitcoin mining and just do cloud mining. Having physical mining hardware just is more interesting (although more work of course)

difficulty goes high... small miner, who write here, lode interest...
and go away!!!

 

in the last days the thread had less post...

It is still one of the more active topics I follow. Also I am still mining with my small plots, no matter the difficulty, not in it only for the $.

Though if Burst gets established enough, I have no doubts we'll be seeing the "bitcoin scenario".

I think that for this it will take months.
but I'm sure it will be something similar to the success of bitcoin.
blocks reward are already down to 8573 burst.
and then decreasing the reward and increasing of the difficulty will increase burst value

and if important features will be introduced by the dev we go to the moon!!!

Look what the storJ price story ...

 

[pinballdude]

It sure took longer than i had expected for the basetarget to come down, difficulty to come up. Mining burst was and is a steal, compared to anything else you can do with comodity hardware. Especially if your electicity is expensive.

I finally got my systems running relatively smoothly and unattended and the last week or so i've gotten 1-3 blocks a day, where i previously had 4-7 or so, basetarget is falling (difficulty is rising, network size is rising) fast and now seems to be wobbeling around 2 million, where it was wobbeling around 3.5 million before.  Anyway, all the new plotters and miners are very welcome, and as there are only so many burst coming out no matter how many miners, more miners do not mean more burst, so the price is rock stable no matter how much harddisk space we throw at the protocol.

This also means that the less effective miners will likely start buying burst on the exchanges instead of mining burst, as that might be more profitable for them. This will create buying pressure and establish a floor on the price, perhaps even make it go up.

Marketing department should start making lists of stuff you can do with burst IRL, and detail what kinds of software and instructions is needed.  everyone selling something for bitcoin should have an easy way to sell for burst too. i mean.. really easy.. as a retailer it should be just an app you install on your tablet, then you are ready for action, you should never have to see a commandline window or the like.

I really hope that i can find some time next year to add a little code and apps to the coin, currently my empolyer who was wise enough to give me ownership is taking up all my time and then some.

I think it is time to discuss usecase scenarios involving burst and what instructions, programs and services are needed to make things happen. My advise to all : Don't buy a pizza for 1K burst... In time, it wil turn out to have been a very expensive pizza ;-)

[fran2k]

[---]
Have you considered to integrate this into a Torrent client? Including someking of Proof of Bandwith?

Include what into a Torrent client...? I don't understand.

I mean if somehow we could do a proof of sharing, based either on bandwidth or disk space ...

[katlogic]

[---]
Have you considered to integrate this into a Torrent client? Including someking of Proof of Bandwith?

Include what into a Torrent client...? I don't understand.

I mean if somehow we could do a proof of sharing, based either on bandwidth or disk space ...

Compared to maid and storj (which are just pumped IPOs at this moment, non-mineable and with no utility), BURST makes no promises this will be at all possible. Proof of Being Reliable Storage And Not Just Someone Faking It is very, very difficult to do in reliable fashion. So far, all proposals to do this in decentralized fashion are technobabble than anything sound.

[l3mmy]

[---]
Have you considered to integrate this into a Torrent client? Including someking of Proof of Bandwith?

Include what into a Torrent client...? I don't understand.

I mean if somehow we could do a proof of sharing, based either on bandwidth or disk space ...

Compared to maid and storj (which are just pumped IPOs at this moment, non-mineable and with no utility), BURST makes no promises this will be at all possible. Proof of Being Reliable Storage And Not Just Someone Faking It is very, very difficult to do in reliable fashion. So far, all proposals to do this in decentralized fashion are technobabble than anything sound.

The Storj Whitepaper was released officially today at www.storj.io/storj.pdf
They also have the access plans posted at www.storj.io/earlyaccess

[FakeAccount]

It sure took longer than i had expected for the basetarget to come down, difficulty to come up. Mining burst was and is a steal, compared to anything else you can do with comodity hardware. Especially if your electicity is expensive.

I finally got my systems running relatively smoothly and unattended and the last week or so i've gotten 1-3 blocks a day, where i previously had 4-7 or so, basetarget is falling (difficulty is rising, network size is rising) fast and now seems to be wobbeling around 2 million, where it was wobbeling around 3.5 million before.  Anyway, all the new plotters and miners are very welcome, and as there are only so many burst coming out no matter how many miners, more miners do not mean more burst, so the price is rock stable no matter how much harddisk space we throw at the protocol.

This also means that the less effective miners will likely start buying burst on the exchanges instead of mining burst, as that might be more profitable for them. This will create buying pressure and establish a floor on the price, perhaps even make it go up.

Marketing department should start making lists of stuff you can do with burst IRL, and detail what kinds of software and instructions is needed.  everyone selling something for bitcoin should have an easy way to sell for burst too. i mean.. really easy.. as a retailer it should be just an app you install on your tablet, then you are ready for action, you should never have to see a commandline window or the like.

I really hope that i can find some time next year to add a little code and apps to the coin, currently my empolyer who was wise enough to give me ownership is taking up all my time and then some.

I think it is time to discuss usecase scenarios involving burst and what instructions, programs and services are needed to make things happen. My advise to all : Don't buy a pizza for 1K burst... In time, it wil turn out to have been a very expensive pizza ;-)

i haven't found a block in 3 days with 50TB.  3 days ago I found 3 blocks.  prior to that, it was 4 days without a block.  it's really strange lately.

[katlogic]

The Storj Whitepaper was released officially today at www.storj.io/storj.pdf

It does not elaborate on how exactly is audit consensus executed (most notably, whom audits who - and when).
From technical perspective, storj is plagued by same problems as, for example, ethereum. Someone raises some
attack vector (stemming from lack of robustness), vitalik roughly explains how to bandage it. And it goes on and on.

They also have the access plans posted at www.storj.io/earlyaccess

Wait, I need to pump storj asset on XCP to download "opensource" software now?
O...kay.

I have to admit this pump is ingenious

[l3mmy]

The Storj Whitepaper was released officially today at www.storj.io/storj.pdf

It does not elaborate on how exactly is audit consensus executed (most notably, whom audits who - and when).
From technical perspective, storj is plagued by same problems as, for example, ethereum. Someone raises some
attack vector (stemming from lack of robustness), vitalik roughly explains how to bandage it. And it goes on and on.

They also have the access plans posted at www.storj.io/earlyaccess

I have to admit this pump is ingenious

Says the person who read 18 pages in 15 minutes and fully understood everything he read