[XMR] Monero Speculation

[cAPSLOCK]

The Monero Speculation thread is a thread on Buttcointalk.org which shows the historical promise, and posting on this thread will be the tread of 2018 for sure. 

The only other threads which will bring them the challenge are the Vertge and DarkOnions.  They will bring the much greater challenge becauyse of the number of RingCTs is so much.

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[Globb0]

I say people can come closer on the subject

[cAPSLOCK]

I say people can come closer to the subject

You are no fun!   

Plus I post OT in here all the time and people ignore it.

[Anon136]

I say people can come closer to the subject

You are no fun!   

Plus I post OT in here all the time and people ignore it.

The way I look at it is it sort of depends what's going on. If there is vigorous and lively on topic discussion happening than don't interrupt it. If it's a slow day an no one is talking about anything anyway, why the heck not.

[Globb0]

Maybe my clever spambotish English joke passed you all by. Sorry

*OK edited for less clarity*   

[Anon136]

Maybe my clever spambotish English joke passed you all by. Sorry

*OK edited for less clarity*   

Oh ok. Yea, I think you were a little too coherent.

[faaty]

Every other coin is soared with fork news but Monero did not. I liked MoneroV but it needed a confirmation from a big exchange

[generalizethis]

Every other coin is soared with fork news but Monero did not. I liked MoneroV but it needed a confirmation from a big exchange

Why does it even exist? I get why eth classic and bcash exist, there was clash of opinions and enough demand for a fork, but this just seems like a cash grab leeching off Monero's good name.

[jwinterm]

Every other coin is soared with fork news but Monero did not. I liked MoneroV but it needed a confirmation from a big exchange

Why does it even exist? I get why eth classic and bcash exist, there was clash of opinions and enough demand for a fork, but this just seems like a cash grab leeching off Monero's good name.

The concrete reasons put forward are 10x the supply (move the decimal) and hardcap on emission that will be hit in fifty years or so; more vague reasons put forward are massive scaling improvements and mimblewimble integration (which they require a 5-10% premine for).

Not to toot my own shillhorn, but there is now a fairly launched alternative (which may actually be the most fairly launched cryptonote ever) that meets the two concrete reasons put forward, but launched with it's own blockchain to avoid privacy degradation issues.

[joroz]

Not to toot my own shillhorn, but there is now a fairly launched alternative (which may actually be the most fairly launched cryptonote ever) that meets the two concrete reasons put forward, but launched with it's own blockchain to avoid privacy degradation issues.

You mean Wownero?

[garytheasshole]

Not to toot my own shillhorn, but there is now a fairly launched alternative (which may actually be the most fairly launched cryptonote ever) that meets the two concrete reasons put forward, but launched with it's own blockchain to avoid privacy degradation issues.

You mean Wownero?

No Bitconnect.

[Shnikes101]

Not to toot my own shillhorn, but there is now a fairly launched alternative (which may actually be the most fairly launched cryptonote ever) that meets the two concrete reasons put forward, but launched with it's own blockchain to avoid privacy degradation issues.

You mean Wownero?

No Bitconnect.

I thought we were talking about Monero 0 (XMZ) - known as "The Original Monero." But please, don't associate or confuse it with Monero Original (XMO). For the fourth time, they're different - capeesh?

[Febo]

Few days ago i checked MoneroV website and it had countdown to fork, and sort of should happen right about now but today I saw i will tomorrow.  But then I was thinking why they should not fork it after 0.12.1 . If they do it now will just have some more problems.


And right now price goes up. Will anyone claim that is because fork or because it is getting banned in Japan?

[ArticMine]

Every other coin is soared with fork news but Monero did not. I liked MoneroV but it needed a confirmation from a big exchange

Why does it even exist? I get why eth classic and bcash exist, there was clash of opinions and enough demand for a fork, but this just seems like a cash grab leeching off Monero's good name.

The concrete reasons put forward are 10x the supply (move the decimal) and hardcap on emission that will be hit in fifty years or so; more vague reasons put forward are massive scaling improvements and mimblewimble integration (which they require a 5-10% premine for).

Not to toot my own shillhorn, but there is now a fairly launched alternative (which may actually be the most fairly launched cryptonote ever) that meets the two concrete reasons put forward, but launched with it's own blockchain to avoid privacy degradation issues.

The 10x supply is just moving a decimal. I see this mostly as a marketing gimmick that may lead to an increase in price. There are two real changes:

1) Capping the supply by stopping the trail emission cold after 256 million XMV, in approximately 50 years. This to put it bluntly is a time bomb set to go off in approximately 50 years. Why this 50 year period was chosen is beyond me other than it is close to a typical remaining life expectancy of a millennial. In many ways this is a Faustian contract optimized for a millennial. MoneroV gets to enjoy Monero's adaptive blocksize and scaling while at the same time claiming a finite coin supply. for ~50 years and is then when the Faustian contract runs out  MoneroV is condemned to an eternity of 51% attacks! It is conceivable that a baby boomer who reaches the super centenarian age of 110+ years could actually launch one of these 51% attacks. 

2) A mid mine of 15,000,000 XMV. Nothing fair launch about that.

The mimblewimble stuff if it has any merit would likely end up in a Monero side / daughter chain anyway. MoneroV is significant to Monero because it goes against one of Monero's core principles, the adaptive blocksize that when combined with a tail emission provides on chain scaling that is only limited by the state of technology at a given point it time in the future. This places  Monero head and shoulders above the vast majority of POW coins starting with Bitcoin. Taking the "short" side of a Faustian contract is something I actually find very appealing. In this case I find the "short", selling XMV from the air drop, even more appealing since MoneroV goes against something I hold very dear in Monero. 

[mnemonicsoup]

In this case I find the "short", selling XMV from the air drop, even more appealing since MoneroV goes against something I hold very dear in Monero. 

So, claiming the MoneroVs in order to dump them is not potentially reducing the privacy of Monero anymore?

[garytheasshole]

In this case I find the "short", selling XMV from the air drop, even more appealing since MoneroV goes against something I hold very dear in Monero. 

So, claiming the MoneroVs in order to dump them is not potentially reducing the privacy of Monero anymore?

As far as I understand as long as you move your moneros to a different wallet before claiming your monerov/classic/original there is no key image reuse issue, do correct me if I'm wrong.

[dEBRUYNE]

where is the ledger integration? It was "very very soon" two weeks ago

It cant officially happen before there is 0.12.1  Should happen this month for sure. Probably first half.

Read somewhere reddit/twitter that 0.12.1 is one to two weeks out.
Still expecting cli only. Would be a great surprise to see gui integration but I really doubt it.

You can use Ledger with the GUI. There is, however, one caveat. That is, you can only generate the wallet with the CLI.

[ArticMine]

In this case I find the "short", selling XMV from the air drop, even more appealing since MoneroV goes against something I hold very dear in Monero.  

So, claiming the MoneroVs in order to dump them is not potentially reducing the privacy of Monero anymore?

One has to use the mitigations provided in version 0.12.x of Monero.  https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/7826/how-can-individuals-safeguard-themselves-and-the-community-against-a-key-reusing/ The objective in both cases is to have at least 6 identical pre fork fake outputs when spending on both chains.  There are two cases here.

1) MoneroV  XMV
MoneroV will, according to the Monerov developers be supporting the mitigations and  have replay protection. So to claim the MoneroV one first spends one Monero to another Monero Wallet one controls, and this is very important, using

segregate-pre-fork-outputs in monero-wallet-cli or "I will spend on a key reusing fork" in monero-wallet-gui, ensures that spending a pre-fork output only uses pre-fork fake outputs, since spending on both blockchains will moot post-fork outputs.

One should verify the that rings are using pre fork fake outputs before making the spend.  Make sure to set the MoneroV fork block to 1564965. Now if one installs the MoneroV software over the now empty Monero wallet it should recognize the shared RingDB; however since the MoneroV software is not available at this point this cannot be verified. There is no rush at this point with claiming the MoneroV.  I would wait until one understands how the MoneroV software works before claiming the MoneroV.

2) Monero Original / Classic  XMO / XMC
This does not support the mitigation nor does it have replay protection. There is a limited replay protection on the Monero side because of the increase in ring size from 5 to 7. On the other hand because it used the existing version 0.11.x of Monero there is no risk of a malicious back door introduced by the XMO / XMC developers. In this case one has to spend the Monero Original / Classic first. It is imperative that this be done only to a wallet one controls because of the risk of a replay attack on the Monero chain. Furthermore in order to generate the minimum common pre fork outputs I ended up using a large ring size on the Monero Original / Classic. One then has to enter the rings by hand in to the V0.12.x version of Monero and then spend the Monero to a wallet one controls. This locks out the replay attack. One can then spend the Monero Original / Classic.

[phishead]

Not to toot my own shillhorn, but there is now a fairly launched alternative (which may actually be the most fairly launched cryptonote ever) that meets the two concrete reasons put forward, but launched with it's own blockchain to avoid privacy degradation issues.

You mean Wownero?

No Bitconnect.

You are CORREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECT!

[phishead]

where is the ledger integration? It was "very very soon" two weeks ago

It cant officially happen before there is 0.12.1  Should happen this month for sure. Probably first half.

Read somewhere reddit/twitter that 0.12.1 is one to two weeks out.
Still expecting cli only. Would be a great surprise to see gui integration but I really doubt it.

You can use Ledger with the GUI. There is, however, one caveat. That is, you can only generate the wallet with the CLI.

Why is that? Are there potential security issues with generating through the GUI, or just something else entirely?