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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation  (Read 3200236 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (2 posts by 2 users deleted.)
garytheasshole
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May 02, 2018, 07:07:30 PM
 #38081


Not to toot my own shillhorn, but there is now a fairly launched alternative (which may actually be the most fairly launched cryptonote ever) that meets the two concrete reasons put forward, but launched with it's own blockchain to avoid privacy degradation issues.

You mean Wownero?

No Bitconnect.

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May 02, 2018, 08:48:10 PM
 #38082


Not to toot my own shillhorn, but there is now a fairly launched alternative (which may actually be the most fairly launched cryptonote ever) that meets the two concrete reasons put forward, but launched with it's own blockchain to avoid privacy degradation issues.

You mean Wownero?

No Bitconnect.

I thought we were talking about Monero 0 (XMZ) - known as "The Original Monero." But please, don't associate or confuse it with Monero Original (XMO). For the fourth time, they're different - capeesh?


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May 02, 2018, 09:37:39 PM
 #38083

Few days ago i checked MoneroV website and it had countdown to fork, and sort of should happen right about now but today I saw i will tomorrow.  But then I was thinking why they should not fork it after 0.12.1 . If they do it now will just have some more problems.


And right now price goes up. Will anyone claim that is because fork or because it is getting banned in Japan?

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May 03, 2018, 01:27:37 AM
Merited by mnemonicsoup (3), explorer (1)
 #38084

Every other coin is soared with fork news but Monero did not. I liked MoneroV but it needed a confirmation from a big exchange

Why does it even exist? I get why eth classic and bcash exist, there was clash of opinions and enough demand for a fork, but this just seems like a cash grab leeching off Monero's good name.

The concrete reasons put forward are 10x the supply (move the decimal) and hardcap on emission that will be hit in fifty years or so; more vague reasons put forward are massive scaling improvements and mimblewimble integration (which they require a 5-10% premine for).

Not to toot my own shillhorn, but there is now a fairly launched alternative (which may actually be the most fairly launched cryptonote ever) that meets the two concrete reasons put forward, but launched with it's own blockchain to avoid privacy degradation issues.

The 10x supply is just moving a decimal. I see this mostly as a marketing gimmick that may lead to an increase in price. There are two real changes:

1) Capping the supply by stopping the trail emission cold after 256 million XMV, in approximately 50 years. This to put it bluntly is a time bomb set to go off in approximately 50 years. Why this 50 year period was chosen is beyond me other than it is close to a typical remaining life expectancy of a millennial. In many ways this is a Faustian contract optimized for a millennial. MoneroV gets to enjoy Monero's adaptive blocksize and scaling while at the same time claiming a finite coin supply. for ~50 years and is then when the Faustian contract runs out  MoneroV is condemned to an eternity of 51% attacks! It is conceivable that a baby boomer who reaches the super centenarian age of 110+ years could actually launch one of these 51% attacks.  Wink

2) A mid mine of 15,000,000 XMV. Nothing fair launch about that.

The mimblewimble stuff if it has any merit would likely end up in a Monero side / daughter chain anyway. MoneroV is significant to Monero because it goes against one of Monero's core principles, the adaptive blocksize that when combined with a tail emission provides on chain scaling that is only limited by the state of technology at a given point it time in the future. This places  Monero head and shoulders above the vast majority of POW coins starting with Bitcoin. Taking the "short" side of a Faustian contract is something I actually find very appealing. In this case I find the "short", selling XMV from the air drop, even more appealing since MoneroV goes against something I hold very dear in Monero. 

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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May 03, 2018, 09:26:45 AM
 #38085

In this case I find the "short", selling XMV from the air drop, even more appealing since MoneroV goes against something I hold very dear in Monero. 

So, claiming the MoneroVs in order to dump them is not potentially reducing the privacy of Monero anymore?



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May 03, 2018, 12:04:59 PM
 #38086

In this case I find the "short", selling XMV from the air drop, even more appealing since MoneroV goes against something I hold very dear in Monero. 

So, claiming the MoneroVs in order to dump them is not potentially reducing the privacy of Monero anymore?





As far as I understand as long as you move your moneros to a different wallet before claiming your monerov/classic/original there is no key image reuse issue, do correct me if I'm wrong.

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May 03, 2018, 01:38:52 PM
 #38087

where is the ledger integration? It was "very very soon" two weeks ago
It cant officially happen before there is 0.12.1  Should happen this month for sure. Probably first half.

Read somewhere reddit/twitter that 0.12.1 is one to two weeks out.
Still expecting cli only. Would be a great surprise to see gui integration but I really doubt it.

You can use Ledger with the GUI. There is, however, one caveat. That is, you can only generate the wallet with the CLI.

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
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May 03, 2018, 02:43:52 PM
Last edit: May 03, 2018, 03:04:04 PM by ArticMine
 #38088

In this case I find the "short", selling XMV from the air drop, even more appealing since MoneroV goes against something I hold very dear in Monero.  

So, claiming the MoneroVs in order to dump them is not potentially reducing the privacy of Monero anymore?





One has to use the mitigations provided in version 0.12.x of Monero.  https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/7826/how-can-individuals-safeguard-themselves-and-the-community-against-a-key-reusing/ The objective in both cases is to have at least 6 identical pre fork fake outputs when spending on both chains.  There are two cases here.

1) MoneroV  XMV
MoneroV will, according to the Monerov developers be supporting the mitigations and  have replay protection. So to claim the MoneroV one first spends one Monero to another Monero Wallet one controls, and this is very important, using
Quote
segregate-pre-fork-outputs in monero-wallet-cli or "I will spend on a key reusing fork" in monero-wallet-gui, ensures that spending a pre-fork output only uses pre-fork fake outputs, since spending on both blockchains will moot post-fork outputs.
One should verify the that rings are using pre fork fake outputs before making the spend.  Make sure to set the MoneroV fork block to 1564965. Now if one installs the MoneroV software over the now empty Monero wallet it should recognize the shared RingDB; however since the MoneroV software is not available at this point this cannot be verified. There is no rush at this point with claiming the MoneroV.  I would wait until one understands how the MoneroV software works before claiming the MoneroV.

2) Monero Original / Classic  XMO / XMC
This does not support the mitigation nor does it have replay protection. There is a limited replay protection on the Monero side because of the increase in ring size from 5 to 7. On the other hand because it used the existing version 0.11.x of Monero there is no risk of a malicious back door introduced by the XMO / XMC developers. In this case one has to spend the Monero Original / Classic first. It is imperative that this be done only to a wallet one controls because of the risk of a replay attack on the Monero chain. Furthermore in order to generate the minimum common pre fork outputs I ended up using a large ring size on the Monero Original / Classic. One then has to enter the rings by hand in to the V0.12.x version of Monero and then spend the Monero to a wallet one controls. This locks out the replay attack. One can then spend the Monero Original / Classic.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
phishead
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May 03, 2018, 03:23:38 PM
 #38089


Not to toot my own shillhorn, but there is now a fairly launched alternative (which may actually be the most fairly launched cryptonote ever) that meets the two concrete reasons put forward, but launched with it's own blockchain to avoid privacy degradation issues.

You mean Wownero?

No Bitconnect.

You are CORREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECT!


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Monero
"I just opened a 2004 barolo in your and all the devs honour"  eyejay:  Decemeber 22nd, 2016

"Don't buy Monero, join our new ICO: 'The Monero Enterprise Alliance"  fluffypony:  May 24th, 2017
phishead
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May 03, 2018, 03:35:13 PM
 #38090

where is the ledger integration? It was "very very soon" two weeks ago
It cant officially happen before there is 0.12.1  Should happen this month for sure. Probably first half.

Read somewhere reddit/twitter that 0.12.1 is one to two weeks out.
Still expecting cli only. Would be a great surprise to see gui integration but I really doubt it.

You can use Ledger with the GUI. There is, however, one caveat. That is, you can only generate the wallet with the CLI.

Why is that? Are there potential security issues with generating through the GUI, or just something else entirely?


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Monero
"I just opened a 2004 barolo in your and all the devs honour"  eyejay:  Decemeber 22nd, 2016

"Don't buy Monero, join our new ICO: 'The Monero Enterprise Alliance"  fluffypony:  May 24th, 2017
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May 03, 2018, 03:51:09 PM
 #38091

where is the ledger integration? It was "very very soon" two weeks ago
It cant officially happen before there is 0.12.1  Should happen this month for sure. Probably first half.

Read somewhere reddit/twitter that 0.12.1 is one to two weeks out.
Still expecting cli only. Would be a great surprise to see gui integration but I really doubt it.

You can use Ledger with the GUI. There is, however, one caveat. That is, you can only generate the wallet with the CLI.

Why is that? Are there potential security issues with generating through the GUI, or just something else entirely?

Wallet creation in the command line requires a different argument and will interact with the existing 24 word seed in your ledger.  I think that functionality will just need to be mirrored in the gui.  A button for wallet creation from Ledger and such...
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May 03, 2018, 06:18:42 PM
 #38092

where is the ledger integration? It was "very very soon" two weeks ago
It cant officially happen before there is 0.12.1  Should happen this month for sure. Probably first half.

Read somewhere reddit/twitter that 0.12.1 is one to two weeks out.
Still expecting cli only. Would be a great surprise to see gui integration but I really doubt it.

You can use Ledger with the GUI. There is, however, one caveat. That is, you can only generate the wallet with the CLI.

Why is that? Are there potential security issues with generating through the GUI, or just something else entirely?

Wallet creation in the command line requires a different argument and will interact with the existing 24 word seed in your ledger.  I think that functionality will just need to be mirrored in the gui.  A button for wallet creation from Ledger and such...

Correct.

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
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May 03, 2018, 06:26:00 PM
 #38093

where is the ledger integration? It was "very very soon" two weeks ago
It cant officially happen before there is 0.12.1  Should happen this month for sure. Probably first half.

Read somewhere reddit/twitter that 0.12.1 is one to two weeks out.
Still expecting cli only. Would be a great surprise to see gui integration but I really doubt it.

You can use Ledger with the GUI. There is, however, one caveat. That is, you can only generate the wallet with the CLI.

Why is that? Are there potential security issues with generating through the GUI, or just something else entirely?

Wallet creation in the command line requires a different argument and will interact with the existing 24 word seed in your ledger.  I think that functionality will just need to be mirrored in the gui.  A button for wallet creation from Ledger and such...

Correct.

When could this button be ready? Smiley
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May 03, 2018, 11:24:43 PM
Last edit: May 03, 2018, 11:35:34 PM by birr
 #38094

In this case I find the "short", selling XMV from the air drop, even more appealing since MoneroV goes against something I hold very dear in Monero.  

So, claiming the MoneroVs in order to dump them is not potentially reducing the privacy of Monero anymore?

One has to use the mitigations provided in version 0.12.x of Monero.  https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/7826/how-can-individuals-safeguard-themselves-and-the-community-against-a-key-reusing/ The objective in both cases is to have at least 6 identical pre fork fake outputs when spending on both chains.  There are two cases here.

1) MoneroV  XMV
MoneroV will, according to the Monerov developers be supporting the mitigations and  have replay protection. So to claim the MoneroV one first spends one Monero to another Monero Wallet one controls, and this is very important, using
Quote
segregate-pre-fork-outputs in monero-wallet-cli or "I will spend on a key reusing fork" in monero-wallet-gui, ensures that spending a pre-fork output only uses pre-fork fake outputs, since spending on both blockchains will moot post-fork outputs.
One should verify the that rings are using pre fork fake outputs before making the spend.  Make sure to set the MoneroV fork block to 1564965. Now if one installs the MoneroV software over the now empty Monero wallet it should recognize the shared RingDB; however since the MoneroV software is not available at this point this cannot be verified. There is no rush at this point with claiming the MoneroV.  I would wait until one understands how the MoneroV software works before claiming the MoneroV.

2) Monero Original / Classic  XMO / XMC
This does not support the mitigation nor does it have replay protection. There is a limited replay protection on the Monero side because of the increase in ring size from 5 to 7. On the other hand because it used the existing version 0.11.x of Monero there is no risk of a malicious back door introduced by the XMO / XMC developers. In this case one has to spend the Monero Original / Classic first. It is imperative that this be done only to a wallet one controls because of the risk of a replay attack on the Monero chain. Furthermore in order to generate the minimum common pre fork outputs I ended up using a large ring size on the Monero Original / Classic. One then has to enter the rings by hand in to the V0.12.x version of Monero and then spend the Monero to a wallet one controls. This locks out the replay attack. One can then spend the Monero Original / Classic.
Thanks for the stackexchange link.  Just started reading it, will take time to digest.
I'm getting ready to send some xmr to an exchange.  In the event that I decide to claim the monerov later, are there precautions I need to take now with this transaction?  My initial impression is that I can go ahead and make the transaction, and that if I need to deal with print_ring and so forth, that comes later.
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May 04, 2018, 12:23:19 AM
 #38095

where is the ledger integration? It was "very very soon" two weeks ago
It cant officially happen before there is 0.12.1  Should happen this month for sure. Probably first half.

Read somewhere reddit/twitter that 0.12.1 is one to two weeks out.
Still expecting cli only. Would be a great surprise to see gui integration but I really doubt it.

You can use Ledger with the GUI. There is, however, one caveat. That is, you can only generate the wallet with the CLI.

Why is that? Are there potential security issues with generating through the GUI, or just something else entirely?

Wallet creation in the command line requires a different argument and will interact with the existing 24 word seed in your ledger.  I think that functionality will just need to be mirrored in the gui.  A button for wallet creation from Ledger and such...

Correct.

When could this button be ready? Smiley

with 0.12.1 maybe?

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ArticMine
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May 04, 2018, 12:31:17 AM
 #38096

...
Thanks for the stackexchange link.  Just started reading it, will take time to digest.
I'm getting ready to send some xmr to an exchange.  In the event that I decide to claim the monerov later, are there precautions I need to take now with this transaction?  My initial impression is that I can go ahead and make the transaction, and that if I need to deal with print_ring and so forth, that comes later.


The is a very important precaution that you need to take now. When you spend your XMR You need to make use of the mitigation I quoted above in order to ensure that the fake outputs used by a pre fork output are all before the fork, since only pre fork outputs can be identical on both chains.

Edit: It is also best if the XMR spends to empty the wallet, be to a wallet you control, and then from that wallet make a spend to a third party such as an exchange.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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May 04, 2018, 01:04:04 AM
 #38097

...
Thanks for the stackexchange link.  Just started reading it, will take time to digest.
I'm getting ready to send some xmr to an exchange.  In the event that I decide to claim the monerov later, are there precautions I need to take now with this transaction?  My initial impression is that I can go ahead and make the transaction, and that if I need to deal with print_ring and so forth, that comes later.


The is a very important precaution that you need to take now. When you spend your XMR You need to make use of the mitigation I quoted above in order to ensure that the fake outputs used by a pre fork output are all before the fork, since only pre fork outputs can be identical on both chains.

Edit: It is also best if the XMR spends to empty the wallet, be to a wallet you control, and then from that wallet make a spend to a third party such as an exchange.

I don't get it, why would an exchange have to freeze the wallets for a goddamn snapshot???

Quote
XMR is currently under maintenance or experiencing wallet issues. Deposits and withdrawals will remain disabled as we work to find, test, and audit a solution. Thank you for your patience in the meantime.

Shnikes101
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May 04, 2018, 04:36:08 AM
 #38098

Filling up @ 0.025  Grin
KiXiNiT
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May 04, 2018, 08:15:52 AM
 #38099

Brutal couple of weeks for Monero, has virtually been left behind on the run up.

Maybe now its rid of the forks it can make some moves.
cAPSLOCK
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May 04, 2018, 02:30:00 PM
 #38100

Brutal couple of weeks for Monero, has virtually been left behind on the run up.

Maybe now its rid of the forks it can make some moves.

Monero has a bit of a tradition of being more stable during both alt bulls and alt bears. 

Until it decides to take a quantum leap.

At least this is the way things have gone for XMR in the past.

It's pretty common to feel like you are missing out on the party when you hold Monero.  Monero throws it's own parties.
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