Gigamining / Teramining

[jamesg]

I get it from EskimoBob's complaint about the huge difference that you may raise Teramining hashing per share if you can give more based on what you end up being able to offer, but you didn't want to offer more before knowing you could provide it.

By the silence from EskimoBob's lack of response, I can only assume that I have answered his questions to the best of my ability. I have tried to give a clear upgrade path that is guaranteed.

However, considering the trade in gives you 20x more hashing and you give 20x more hashing (for a 0.25BTC fee on 1 BTC IPO, about 20% of total given to you, I suppose we can put that as your approximate margin + operating costs).

I have to pay for upgraded equipment and am offering the opportunity for both a free or paid option. I am also still trying to make purchases of FPGA mini rigs. If everyone wants to take the free option, I'm OK with that. You can't do that with BFL....

While that increase is far less than what you can currently pay per BTC, I suspect it is so since you purchased the FPGA rigs when BTC were around 5$ per BTC if I'm not mistaken.

We will wait until ASIC shipments are eminent before we start changing the price in BTC for the upgrade.

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[Otoh]

This is kind of the million dollar question and I really don't have an valid answer at this point. GPUs will become unprofitable and I'll probably wait until then to figure out what to do with them.

I really don't know much about this, but would there be any advantage to switch them to mining an alt VC like litecoin or the alts aren't worth bothering with?

[rjk]

Actually GPUs on altcoins might be worth something these days, but I doubt it would be worth more than what the hardware could be sold for. Maybe that's something to test just for fun.

[bitcoiners]

Man those divs are looking worse and worse.  And now Bitcoin is over $9.  All I can say is damn.

[Namworld]

All in all, bitcoin difficulty VS. bitcoin prices, the divs have improved.

[sunnankar]

All in all, bitcoin difficulty VS. bitcoin prices, the divs have improved.

Would be nice if Gigavps added two columns to the spreadsheet; the 7 day moving average for BTC in USD and the dividend amount in USD using the 7 day moving average price. Should be pretty simple.

[jamesg]

All in all, bitcoin difficulty VS. bitcoin prices, the divs have improved.

Would be nice if Gigavps added two columns to the spreadsheet; the 7 day moving average for BTC in USD and the dividend amount in USD using the 7 day moving average price. Should be pretty simple.

Hi sunnankar,

We are dealing with bitcoin and I would prefer to keep it that way. Valuing Gigamining any other way is really up to potential or current holders of Gigamining.

Best,
gigavps

[puffn]

You earn bitcoins off of bitcoins. It makes perfect sense. Currency risk is something you should have to consider when making any sort of investment on the exchange. Giga's putting of this on his site won't raise or lower the relative risk he has in relation to other mining stocks on GLBSE. So essentially, it would be more work for him, for little to no benefit to him.

[sunnankar]

Hi sunnankar,

We are dealing with bitcoin and I would prefer to keep it that way. Valuing Gigamining any other way is really up to potential or current holders of Gigamining.

Best,
gigavps

Agree with Giga here.

Why tie this with some random fiat currency value ?

The USD is still the priority numeraire for just about everyone in the Bitcoin community and surely in the serious investment community. Oil, natural gas, gold, silver, copper, mangenese, corn, soybean and every other serious investment opportunity will provide the simple mathematical calculations of converting to the reporting currency.

Additionally, just like the other commodities mentioned above so likewise the generation of bitcoins incurs expenses which are denominated in a random fiat currency value. While Butterfly Labs accepts bitcoins in payment for their hardware the prices are in USD and not BTC. When performing the mental financial calculation of whether to lease or buy mining equipment or buy a bond or just buy bitcoins the common nexus is usually the USD or EUR.

A few weeks ago I had meetings with CEOs and other officers of four publicly traded commodity mining companies. They rolled out the red carpet for us as investors.

Figuring out the weekly cash-flow of past dividends measured in USD is not rocket science and all of the information is easily and publicly available. Gigavps could spend about 30 seconds updating it when he does the other updates to the spreadsheet and it would save all of his investors, cumulatively, a significant amount of time should they want similar information. As a result, his bond would be easier to value, investors would be more likely to allocate capital towards it should they consider it undervalued and it would likely generate more liquidity for the issue.

While at it another couple columns that would be helpful would be the average price, in both USD and BTC, and total volume of the bonds traded for the previous week. Then a weekly yield could be calculated. All of these would be helpful in the bond valuations.

After all, if Gigavps wants to keep everything in BTC then why would waiting for ASIC shipments to be eminent even be relevant to the upgrade price? Or does it actually matter to investor's decision making that BTC has gone from $5 to $9 in the past month? And if it matters then why not make the information easily displayed?

While that increase is far less than what you can currently pay per BTC, I suspect it is so since you purchased the FPGA rigs when BTC were around 5$ per BTC if I'm not mistaken.

We will wait until ASIC shipments are eminent before we start changing the price in BTC for the upgrade.

[cst]

Hi sunnankar,

We are dealing with bitcoin and I would prefer to keep it that way. Valuing Gigamining any other way is really up to potential or current holders of Gigamining.

Best,
gigavps

Agree with Giga here.

Why tie this with some random fiat currency value ?

The USD is still the priority numeraire for just about everyone in the Bitcoin community and surely in the serious investment community.
...

Looke like I'm not 'just about everyone' then, since I'm using GBP not USD. How about adding another column for pounds as well? And euros, and yen, and...and...

[jamesg]

Hi sunnankar,

I offer fairly open and transparent operations to the entire bitcoin community. Bitcoin is a global idea, not bound by borders and I don't see the point of adding this to the coupon payment spreadsheet for one person. In fact, other bonds don't even offer a consolidated view of all coupon payments.

Also, if you think I shouldn't readjust the price for the upgrade, I will also take that into consideration.

Best regards,
gigavps

[JWU42]

In fact, other bonds don't even offer a consolidated view of all coupon payments.

We can fix that... 

[bitcoiners]

Second largest trade in Gigamining history just took place @1.041. https://glbse.com/asset/view/GIGAMINING  Someone know something we don't? 

trade:1026@1.041:GIGAMINING:1342921847

via twitter

https://twitter.com/glbse

[occulta]

Second largest trade in Gigamining history just took place @1.041. https://glbse.com/asset/view/GIGAMINING  Someone know something we don't? 

trade:1026@1.041:GIGAMINING:1342921847

via twitter

https://twitter.com/glbse

teramining bonds are changing from 25mh/s to 100mh/s

[jamesg]

Second largest trade in Gigamining history just took place @1.041. https://glbse.com/asset/view/GIGAMINING  Someone know something we don't? 

trade:1026@1.041:GIGAMINING:1342921847

via twitter

https://twitter.com/glbse

teramining bonds are changing from 25mh/s to 100mh/s

This is not correct. Teramining will be a 25Mh/s per bond.

[bitcoiners]

Second largest trade in Gigamining history just took place @1.041. https://glbse.com/asset/view/GIGAMINING  Someone know something we don't? 

trade:1026@1.041:GIGAMINING:1342921847

via twitter

https://twitter.com/glbse

teramining bonds are changing from 25mh/s to 100mh/s

This is not correct. Teramining will be a 25Mh/s per bond.

I think he meant one giga + .25 BTC = 100mh/s

[jamesg]

Second largest trade in Gigamining history just took place @1.041. https://glbse.com/asset/view/GIGAMINING  Someone know something we don't? 

trade:1026@1.041:GIGAMINING:1342921847

via twitter

https://twitter.com/glbse

teramining bonds are changing from 25mh/s to 100mh/s

This is not correct. Teramining will be a 25Mh/s per bond.

I think he meant one giga + .25 BTC = 100mh/s

That is correct.

[bitcoiners]

I see another large buy order 1815@1.09 and the price is slowly creeping back up.  I thought with the news of the expansion the price might have even doubled on speculation not make it worth less.  I think people are beginning to realize what a deal having one bond @ 1.09 actually is.  I just hope the price doesn't rise too fast as to not let me get some more funds into gigamining.  Still a long way from even 1.5 though.  I'm sure the second wave of investors have some shot nerves at this point.

Oh, can get divs a little early today?  I'd like to put more funds in before I have to go back out on the road in the morning.

Cheers!

[EskimoBob]

.... I think people are beginning to realize what a deal having one bond @ 1.09 actually is. ...

Can you tell me please!? All I see is a 5 Mh/s turd for 1.09 or 1.09/5= 0.218 BTC per Mh, with diminishing coupon payments.
You probably know (or maybe not) that Mh/s produces less and less coin and this trend will continue until difficulty starts to drop.
Yes, temporary 110% payment scheme was all nice and hart warming, but this is over for now and negative trend continues. Simply put -  the value of turd holders investment deteriorates.

Maybe vps can blow a little bit more of that warm and perfumed air up to our collective as(ic)s so we can enjoy another positive (but temporary) price movement - a.k.a pump and dump.

[jamesg]

.... I think people are beginning to realize what a deal having one bond @ 1.09 actually is. ...

Can you tell me please!? All I see is a 5 Mh/s turd for 1.09 or 1.09/5= 0.218 BTC per Mh, with diminishing coupon payments.
You probably know (or maybe not) that Mh/s produces less and less coin and this trend will continue until difficulty starts to drop.

Hi EskimoBob,

As I said in my previous post to you, EVERY MINER faces these difficulty changes and unknown future returns, not just Gigamining bond holders. There are strategies which have been discussed in this thread to combat this, which you choose to ignore. It is quite obvious that others see value where you do not.

Maybe vps can blow a little bit more of that warm and perfumed air up to our collective as(ic)s so we can enjoy another positive (but temporary) price movement - a.k.a pump and dump.

You never answered my questions I posed to you in my previous reply. I'll quote it below so you can help me understand what you think I should do since you seem to think my intentions here are not genuine.

Best,
gigavps

Hi EskimoBob,

Since you didn't like my last response, we'll take your new post in parts so that I can talk to each point you make.

I attempted to figure out is this upgrade a really sweet deal or this just another rip off wrapped in a shiny paper and offered to us by a beady-eyed, smooth talking scam artist.

Thanks for taking the time to do some math. However, I don't appreciate being called a scam artist. I would kindly ask that if you would like to be respected, please respect others.

I guess it is clear what I did here in Table 1. All the FPGA stuff that vps has ordered and is pay'd by you, dear turd ("bond") holders is getting swapped to 20.4 times faster equipment. And yes, it is all paid by you. 

So your calculations for the $/Gh decrease look correct. At this point in time, I have 4 mini rigs and cannot promise anything more until some things happen.

Would you rather I promise what I cannot deliver?

We got our 5 Mh turds for it and when diff started to climb, people started to realize that 5 Mh will keep losing value fast. (This trend will continue in long term and same thing will happen to 100 Mh ASIC turds.) 

Every miner faces this. It's not just bond holders. It is however the one of only three risks that bond holders take on along with bond price fluctuations and BTC price. I take on ALL the other risks of running the bond. You do not have to worry that cgminer crashed yesterday and 50Gh was down for 4 hours.

Do you think that taking on these risks does not deserve a premium?

People got pissed off and then the a* holes from BFL released the PR FUD package. Now most of you realized, that 5 Mh turds will be worthless in matter of [insert BFL promised time frame here]. Suddenly people realized tha VPS can swap this pile of FPGA to 20 times faster (per invested dollar) ASIC's and ... here we are now. 

All I can do when faced with this situation is either let gigamining die on the vine or work really hard to get ASICs.

What do you prefer me to do?

Here, in Table 2,  I am trying to understand, what really happens, if this swap gets completed.
At this point, it looks like I am getting scammed no matter what I do.

I have tried to give people a way to choose a free upgrade path. I have funds allocated to getting to 200Gh before ASIC arrives and to also upgrade equipment. BFL has made everyone of their customers double down if they want to remain viable in the mining game. I am not, yet you tell me you feel scammed because of this.

Would you rather I only have a paid upgrade option like BFL?

VPS answer to my question was as empty and meaningless like a answer from a scumbag politician:

Again, I try to treat most everyone on the forums with respect. I have failed in the past on this because I am not perfect. I will ask again that you try to do the same. Hopefully my more detailed response here will rectify your issues with my previous post.

Did I calculate something wrong? If so, can you please keep it to the point and use similar layout, so we all can see, where did I go wrong.

Cheers!

So, EskimoBob, would you rather I make no money and go out of business at the first sign of trouble? It seems your argument is that because I make BTC doing this that I am somehow doing something wrong.

I look forward to your response.

Best,
gigavps