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Author Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s  (Read 96767 times)
goozman96
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July 06, 2014, 02:34:26 AM
 #1161

Who wants to guess what each X-3 (2TH) will fall to after they finish delivering to batch 1 and 2? My guess is $3500

BTC: 19DKtsdGfQyFzNiEze9KuFQrWGiLDvg6F1 | LTC: LbV6UGyjYbVP49NvQFmuAnkADcaFYvNagK | NMC: NDCdMJmTmGH54Cezmo3CwSxAC7grAoZJbj
notbatman
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July 06, 2014, 03:19:42 AM
 #1162

Who wants to guess what each X-3 (2TH) will fall to after they finish delivering to batch 1 and 2? My guess is $3500

$0 as they'll cost more in power to run than they'll return in BTC when they ship. This company is clearly in the mining business and the customers are cash cows as well as a garbage disposal service to finance the farm then dispose of the mined-out hardware.

Having them lined up and shot for this would be nice but the crooks behind this company are in the UK and will be sipping margaritas on the Virgin Islands instead.
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July 06, 2014, 03:26:29 AM
 #1163

Who wants to guess what each X-3 (2TH) will fall to after they finish delivering to batch 1 and 2? My guess is $3500

That will still be overpriced.
That's what cointerra is still going for. It should be under $3000 to compete with the S3 though.

BTC: 19DKtsdGfQyFzNiEze9KuFQrWGiLDvg6F1 | LTC: LbV6UGyjYbVP49NvQFmuAnkADcaFYvNagK | NMC: NDCdMJmTmGH54Cezmo3CwSxAC7grAoZJbj
goozman96
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July 06, 2014, 03:49:40 AM
 #1164

Who wants to guess what each X-3 (2TH) will fall to after they finish delivering to batch 1 and 2? My guess is $3500

That will still be overpriced.
That's what cointerra is still going for. It should be under $3000 to compete with the S3 though.

If you buy 2 TH in S3 is ~2000 bucks.

2000/ 478 = 4.18 *.74 = 3.09    * 650  =  $2012

There is no reason to pay more than that today. Looks like we are solidly at $1 per GH/s
There's also 2 PSUs required. Also not to mention the lack of a sweet lcd! /s

BTC: 19DKtsdGfQyFzNiEze9KuFQrWGiLDvg6F1 | LTC: LbV6UGyjYbVP49NvQFmuAnkADcaFYvNagK | NMC: NDCdMJmTmGH54Cezmo3CwSxAC7grAoZJbj
notbatman
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July 06, 2014, 08:34:59 AM
 #1165

I want a conclusion to this fraud. Black Arrow needs to deliver their worthless garbage, declare bankruptcy or do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars go directly to jail.

END THIS FUCKING GAME YOU FUCKING ASSHOLES!
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July 06, 2014, 10:33:22 AM
 #1166

Who wants to guess what each X-3 (2TH) will fall to after they finish delivering to batch 1 and 2? My guess is $3500

That will still be overpriced.
That's what cointerra is still going for. It should be under $3000 to compete with the S3 though.

I paid $2799 for a nonexistent X3 last year, so I would guess they will sell for around that if they get produced.  
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July 06, 2014, 11:10:29 AM
Last edit: July 06, 2014, 01:06:49 PM by Pistachio
 #1167

Yes, it is a scam! You need to stop fooling yourself here. Ask yourself how long it took from the first 'working' video of the X1 and when paying customers (not David, a BA spokesperson) actually received it. O wait, I still haven't received my batch 1 order for X1s from Blackarrow. They refuse to say if I am on this mythical 'refund list' and they have not shipped anything. So, good luck with your 'proof' of X3 existing and shipping next week.
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwnKZTeAG8

at last! a full x3 module working.

We have the right to be angry and to demand a fair compensation/refund for the huge delays. But definitely this is not a scam case.
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July 06, 2014, 01:05:54 PM
 #1168

Up up and away!  Cheesy

Lies, lies, and more lies. Don't be fooled. This scam has gone on long enough.

It's time to file fraud reports with the FBI/DOJ in the US (http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx), the State Administration for Industry and Commerce of the PRC (http://www.saic.gov.cn/english/ContactUs/), and the Consumer Council in HK (https://www.consumer.org.hk/cc-complaint/index.php?lang=en). We need everyone who is still waiting on the side lines to step up and file now! The only way this will get traction is if enough of us file reports now. It will be too late if you wait another month, two months, or longer until the delay tactics finally wear on you.

First off I would like to apologize for the loss of communication and information. The past few days have been very busy for everybody, and contact was a bit difficult at some times.

At the moment we are in full production. The X-3 backplanes we tested are working and we are producing them now. We are also busy shipping the X-1's. We have a few X-3 backplanes that are made by hand undergoing tests and software tuning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfwnKZTeAG8

The noise in the video is not from the miner but background noise. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Here are also some more pictures: http://ecointalk.net/gallery/album/41-05-07-2104/
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July 06, 2014, 01:06:34 PM
 #1169

http://answers.usa.gov/system/templates/selfservice/USAGov/#!portal/1012/article/3202/Overseas-Fraud

FAQ #3202 | Last Reviewed: 6/9/2014
Overseas Fraud
Overseas Companies
To file a complaint about fraudulent business practices committed by overseas/foreign companies, contact the country Desk Officer at 1-800-USA-TRAD(E) (1-800-872-8723) or by writing to:

International Trade Administration
U.S. Department of Commerce
1401 Constitution Ave NW
Washington, D.C. 20230

Overseas Fraud Online
To file a complaint specifically about e-commerce (business or trade that takes place on the Internet) across international borders, please visit http://www.econsumer.gov

U.S. Citizens
If you are in the U.S., contact the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) at 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357) or file a complaint online using their Online Complaint Assistant .

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July 06, 2014, 01:19:14 PM
 #1170

Let's talk about those X1 orders for a minute. Any explanation from David or direct from BA as to why people who paid after I did to MS received their X1s and the earlier direct BA customers have not?

Here are some of the emails I received from BA in response to a direct refund request. By the end of it, it turns out BA does not have access to their own system to process refunds. This is seriously a scam. No question about it. Read it for yourself. They have stopped replying to my emails.



Dear *******,

We are sorry to hear that you do not wish to continue with your order. As your order has already been put in production it is difficult for us to issue you with a refund. However, we do not want to make anyone unhappy therefore we will do our best to refund your money by moving your order to a new customer.

We have started manufacturing the X1 with our control boards and we have received an update from the management.
And as the team is trying to smoothen out the challenges with Prospero X3; we were told of the new updates from the management that was just released; and you can view the latest and complete updates/news on our website's news section by clicking this link - http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list

We understand your concerns also your situation, and be assured that all efforts to expedite everything; is aimed to give our customers the best of our products and services.

We received queries and suggestions regarding compensation packages. We will address the compensation issues as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

Few months ago we announced that we have a surprise in store for our customers. We will disclose the full details as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

We recognize the importance of this topic and our management team will address it accordingly.
However, we understand that you might not agree with us and we'll offer you the refund if you decide to go ahead with it.

If you wish to proceed with the refund, please understand and agree with the following:
1. We can only pay the same way the payment was made, Black Arrow is not an investment or insurance company and cannot accept to be taken advantage of.

2. A refund request is final. We will not accept to reinstate your order if you change your mind later.

3. As per agreed terms and conditions of sale, we are not obliged to issue you with a refund and this delay is acceptable. However, we are doing our best to keep everyone happy and we'll issue the refund.

4. To cover time used to refund this order, for each transfer needed to be made, we will charge 50 USD and all 3rd party fees. In some cases, we might also need to charge a further 30 USD handling fee for each incorrect or incomplete transfer information provided by the customer.

The date for all FIAT refunds is after we are able to ship our products. We will be able to issue refunds after we start shipping our products as at that time we can allocate personnel to process this type of refunds. We will do our best to start FIAT refunds at an earlier date if we will have available personnel.

Unfortunately we cannot provide refund in FIAT currencies at the earlier date. If you wish refund for more than one order, we will refund all orders in one transfer to minimize the costs.

To process your refund request properly, kindly share your banking details and please feel free to contact us if you will have any further questions.

Sincerely,
Sylvia



Dear ********,

We understand your situation as we also had order placed with the company before we started working in it and we have also lost a lot of money we have invested.

The refund can be done only after we ship 1st batch of the hardwares, as money collected are not just kept in bank account, but spent for the production.

I would ask you to kindly wait until we ship our devices 1st batch which is not far off from now and then your refund can be issued.

Apologies for the inconvenience this may have caused you and Please feel free to contact us anytime for further questions, thank you.

Sincerely,
Sylvia




Dear ********,

Kindly understand that I don't have access to the refund process and the only best thing that I can do for your request is to make a follow-up of your refund request. Also understanding your issues and concerns; be assured that all efforts of the team is put to expedite everything.

And with regard to the refund process, this will be done soon. The management just needs to properly smoothen out the shipment of all Batch 1 and Batch 2 orders, and then all refund requests also with the other pending process requests will be the next priority.

Understanding your issues and concerns; be assured that all efforts of the team is put to expedite everything, and that includes the refund process. And since your refund request has already been escalated, please make sure you do have a confirmation that you are on the refund list after the proper review has been done.

Sincerely,
Sylvia
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July 06, 2014, 01:26:10 PM
 #1171

Take a look at how Projects led a horribly successful scam using similar tactics. You can see how this works here, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=393593.msg4377568#msg4377568. I am not just trying to be an a$$ here. Blackarrow really is a scam.

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July 06, 2014, 01:28:19 PM
Last edit: July 06, 2014, 02:17:02 PM by Pentax
 #1172

Let's talk about those X1 orders for a minute. Any explanation from David or direct from BA as to why people who paid after I did to MS received their X1s and the earlier direct BA customers have not?

Here are some of the emails I received from BA in response to a direct refund request. By the end of it, it turns out BA does not have access to their own system to process refunds. This is seriously a scam. No question about it. Read it for yourself. They have stopped replying to my emails.



Dear *******,

We are sorry to hear that you do not wish to continue with your order. As your order has already been put in production it is difficult for us to issue you with a refund. However, we do not want to make anyone unhappy therefore we will do our best to refund your money by moving your order to a new customer.

We have started manufacturing the X1 with our control boards and we have received an update from the management.
And as the team is trying to smoothen out the challenges with Prospero X3; we were told of the new updates from the management that was just released; and you can view the latest and complete updates/news on our website's news section by clicking this link - http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list

We understand your concerns also your situation, and be assured that all efforts to expedite everything; is aimed to give our customers the best of our products and services.

We received queries and suggestions regarding compensation packages. We will address the compensation issues as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

Few months ago we announced that we have a surprise in store for our customers. We will disclose the full details as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

We recognize the importance of this topic and our management team will address it accordingly.
However, we understand that you might not agree with us and we'll offer you the refund if you decide to go ahead with it.

If you wish to proceed with the refund, please understand and agree with the following:
1. We can only pay the same way the payment was made, Black Arrow is not an investment or insurance company and cannot accept to be taken advantage of.

2. A refund request is final. We will not accept to reinstate your order if you change your mind later.

3. As per agreed terms and conditions of sale, we are not obliged to issue you with a refund and this delay is acceptable. However, we are doing our best to keep everyone happy and we'll issue the refund.

4. To cover time used to refund this order, for each transfer needed to be made, we will charge 50 USD and all 3rd party fees. In some cases, we might also need to charge a further 30 USD handling fee for each incorrect or incomplete transfer information provided by the customer.

The date for all FIAT refunds is after we are able to ship our products. We will be able to issue refunds after we start shipping our products as at that time we can allocate personnel to process this type of refunds. We will do our best to start FIAT refunds at an earlier date if we will have available personnel.

Unfortunately we cannot provide refund in FIAT currencies at the earlier date. If you wish refund for more than one order, we will refund all orders in one transfer to minimize the costs.

To process your refund request properly, kindly share your banking details and please feel free to contact us if you will have any further questions.

Sincerely,
Sylvia



Dear ********,

We understand your situation as we also had order placed with the company before we started working in it and we have also lost a lot of money we have invested.

The refund can be done only after we ship 1st batch of the hardwares, as money collected are not just kept in bank account, but spent for the production.

I would ask you to kindly wait until we ship our devices 1st batch which is not far off from now and then your refund can be issued.

Apologies for the inconvenience this may have caused you and Please feel free to contact us anytime for further questions, thank you.

Sincerely,
Sylvia




Dear ********,

Kindly understand that I don't have access to the refund process and the only best thing that I can do for your request is to make a follow-up of your refund request. Also understanding your issues and concerns; be assured that all efforts of the team is put to expedite everything.

And with regard to the refund process, this will be done soon. The management just needs to properly smoothen out the shipment of all Batch 1 and Batch 2 orders, and then all refund requests also with the other pending process requests will be the next priority.

Understanding your issues and concerns; be assured that all efforts of the team is put to expedite everything, and that includes the refund process. And since your refund request has already been escalated, please make sure you do have a confirmation that you are on the refund list after the proper review has been done.

Sincerely,
Sylvia


and these are all canned responses.  I've gotten the exact same ones.  

all of it is utter horse-shit and again, against the law.  Pre-order funds are mandated to be held in an account, so their assertions indicating otherwise are an admission that they are in violation of the law, as well as conflicting with their earlier statements that most of the money was raised outside of customer funds. 

In these cases they also bear responsibility for the cost of getting these refunds out, including bank fees AND interest for the time they've held our money, not to mention their 'handling fee'.  they owe us money, not the other way around, at this point.

basically, they will say whatever they think will delay these refunds from going out and they have played the same game in stringing customers along for months at this point.  it is a pattern of behavior seemingly based on fraudulent practices and intent.

it is time for anyone that actually wants their money back to file complaints.  the actions of these people indicate to me that they have absolutely zero intention of refunding a dime to anyone.
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July 06, 2014, 01:33:09 PM
 #1173

Who is with me in contacting the other legitimate ASIC resellers and seeing if they will help support us in pursuing legal action? As part of the Bitcoin community, we need to stick together here and weed out scams like this one.

Let's agree on a list of potential resellers and manufactures to contact. Maybe the Bitcoin Foundation could help as well?
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July 06, 2014, 03:19:47 PM
 #1174

Wow, attacks coming in already.  Cheesy Let see what real people think, not trolls from BA.
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July 06, 2014, 04:11:38 PM
 #1175

This was just deleted.

You have just been sent a personal message by Bitcoin Forum on Bitcoin Forum.

IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email.

The message they sent you was:

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Quote
Let's talk about those X1 orders for a minute. Any explanation from David or direct from BA as to why people who paid after I did to MS received their X1s and the earlier direct BA customers have not?

Here are some of the emails I received from BA in response to a direct refund request. By the end of it, it turns out BA does not have access to their own system to process refunds. This is seriously a scam. No question about it. Read it for yourself. They have stopped replying to my emails.



Dear *******,

We are sorry to hear that you do not wish to continue with your order. As your order has already been put in production it is difficult for us to issue you with a refund. However, we do not want to make anyone unhappy therefore we will do our best to refund your money by moving your order to a new customer.

We have started manufacturing the X1 with our control boards and we have received an update from the management.
And as the team is trying to smoothen out the challenges with Prospero X3; we were told of the new updates from the management that was just released; and you can view the latest and complete updates/news on our website's news section by clicking this link - http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list

We understand your concerns also your situation, and be assured that all efforts to expedite everything; is aimed to give our customers the best of our products and services.

We received queries and suggestions regarding compensation packages. We will address the compensation issues as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

Few months ago we announced that we have a surprise in store for our customers. We will disclose the full details as soon as we resume the shipping of the full spec Prospero X1 and Prospero X3 miners.

We recognize the importance of this topic and our management team will address it accordingly.
However, we understand that you might not agree with us and we'll offer you the refund if you decide to go ahead with it.

If you wish to proceed with the refund, please understand and agree with the following:
1. We can only pay the same way the payment was made, Black Arrow is not an investment or insurance company and cannot accept to be taken advantage of.

2. A refund request is final. We will not accept to reinstate your order if you change your mind later.

3. As per agreed terms and conditions of sale, we are not obliged to issue you with a refund and this delay is acceptable. However, we are doing our best to keep everyone happy and we'll issue the refund.

4. To cover time used to refund this order, for each transfer needed to be made, we will charge 50 USD and all 3rd party fees. In some cases, we might also need to charge a further 30 USD handling fee for each incorrect or incomplete transfer information provided by the customer.

The date for all FIAT refunds is after we are able to ship our products. We will be able to issue refunds after we start shipping our products as at that time we can allocate personnel to process this type of refunds. We will do our best to start FIAT refunds at an earlier date if we will have available personnel.

Unfortunately we cannot provide refund in FIAT currencies at the earlier date. If you wish refund for more than one order, we will refund all orders in one transfer to minimize the costs.

To process your refund request properly, kindly share your banking details and please feel free to contact us if you will have any further questions.

Sincerely,
Sylvia



Dear ********,

We understand your situation as we also had order placed with the company before we started working in it and we have also lost a lot of money we have invested.

The refund can be done only after we ship 1st batch of the hardwares, as money collected are not just kept in bank account, but spent for the production.

I would ask you to kindly wait until we ship our devices 1st batch which is not far off from now and then your refund can be issued.

Apologies for the inconvenience this may have caused you and Please feel free to contact us anytime for further questions, thank you.

Sincerely,
Sylvia




Dear ********,

Kindly understand that I don't have access to the refund process and the only best thing that I can do for your request is to make a follow-up of your refund request. Also understanding your issues and concerns; be assured that all efforts of the team is put to expedite everything.

And with regard to the refund process, this will be done soon. The management just needs to properly smoothen out the shipment of all Batch 1 and Batch 2 orders, and then all refund requests also with the other pending process requests will be the next priority.

Understanding your issues and concerns; be assured that all efforts of the team is put to expedite everything, and that includes the refund process. And since your refund request has already been escalated, please make sure you do have a confirmation that you are on the refund list after the proper review has been done.

Sincerely,
Sylvia
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July 06, 2014, 04:12:48 PM
 #1176


http://answers.usa.gov/system/templates/selfservice/USAGov/#!portal/1012/article/3202/Overseas-Fraud


Dear Pentax,

We have not committed any fraud and we have done everything according to the contract signed with our customers. Every part is purchased, and now in our stock, waiting to be assembled and shipped.

If you are one of our customers, please read this week update: http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/bitcoin-miners-progress-update-06-july-2014.html

We have now worked around all roadblocks and all orders will be dispatched by the end of this month.

Regards!


I wouldn't imagine you'd admit you had.  The links I provided are for people to file general complaints if they so choose at this point. 

Complaints will be filed with appropriate agencies in the US and China.  You can make your arguments with them.
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July 06, 2014, 04:30:14 PM
 #1177


IF you are serious, I'll take you up on the 100 ASICS for one X3 and 42 ASICS for seven X1s. I still firmly believe Blackarrow has no intention of delivering miners to their direct customers, but you are welcome to prove me wrong.  

Order #234 and #721.

Orders cannot be taken via public forums. Please contact our customer support and we'll dispatch your order tomorrow.

Regards!



and refunds take months.

Regards!
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July 06, 2014, 04:30:51 PM
 #1178

This was just deleted.


If it was deleted, it should have stayed deleted.

We manufacture Bitcoin ASICs and Bitcoin mining equipment.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com
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July 06, 2014, 04:35:52 PM
 #1179


"Currently we are unable to raise the compensation more than announced previously. The final decision will be made after we complete all deliveries in order to calculate the yield and our final costs.

    However, we have done all preliminary calculations possible right now and due to our design focused on quality including:

    -8 layer PCBs

    -heatpipe heatsinks

    -aluminium case

    -included power supply

    -long life 4 wire 5000 RPM fans

    -genuine parts (capacitors, resistors, mosfets, inductors etc)

    -capacitors that cannot explode

Our current design will not be able to directly compete on price with competitors’ design most of which are using one or more of the following:

    -4 layers PCBs

    -extruded aluminum heatsinks

    -steel cases or case-less units

    -no power supplies

    -1500 rpm 2 wire fan (no speed control, no rpm reading)"


what is this shit BA ? we don't give a fuck about your heatsinks we want TH power
you decided to use superior quality bulid , well that's your choice !!

you lied another time, now you don't want to compensate more than a shitty deal
just because of your "superior quality " shit ?

the added value added by theses "superior builds" doesn't equal the difference between
the other brands in terms of TH power




BTC:18oLLFcxwwzfQt4F2YF7QzKyFeksq3dqsQ
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July 06, 2014, 05:19:52 PM
 #1180

"wait, wait we've got a surprise and more compensation"

WHERE IS IT BLACK SHIT ARROW ??

ah also your 100 fucking chips will cost 5000$ to run
how do you think this is a compensation ??

BTC:18oLLFcxwwzfQt4F2YF7QzKyFeksq3dqsQ
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