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Author Topic: [25+PH] KanoPool kano.is NO FEE TIL 2018 PPLNS US,DE,SG,JP,NL,NYA 🐈  (Read 4935541 times)
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ZACHM
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January 05, 2017, 03:02:06 PM
 #22941

They are there, and he's posted them, and I've even quoted his posting of them.... Undecided

You are right, sorry about that.  Embarrassed

I guess the reason he was adding in the figures for the A6 is because there have only been a few blocks by them. That is too few blocks to compare. If you add in the S7s then you are comparing vastly different numbers. Additionally, the S7s used completely different software than the S9s, whereas the A6 and A7 use very similar software.
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ComputerGenie
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January 05, 2017, 03:05:08 PM
 #22942

I talk about broken units. A unit stopped hashing can't be hashing for lower costs...

Now this may be the difference between hobby and income, but I'm not sure why anyone with more than 2 or 3 units wouldn't have spare parts....
Would you own 3 race cars and 0 spare tires at the track on race day?

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
tournamentdan
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January 05, 2017, 03:13:51 PM
 #22943

I now have 19 s9 and still have had no problems. I must be the the luckiest guy in the world. ....

What batch? post again in 6-12 months.
As I have A6, S7, A721 and S9 I can comment very well on durability and customer service Wink

S9s are a steaming pile of bullshit, but the cost less to run (in the long run [100+ blocks]) than A7s, and therefore have a better ROI... It's that simple!

You ignore that the S9 seems to have a higher failure rate

But yes...back on topic: kano.is pool

Batch 5,10,18,22,24.
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January 05, 2017, 03:20:44 PM
 #22944

@tournamentdan
ok, so most of them are not too old. I hope you stay lucky Smiley


@ComputerGenie
spare parts are not free and maintance cost time, that isn't free either.

If you are a trucking company would you buy the truck that costs more and need more fuel but drive on the road all the time, making money. And if something is defective you have very good customer service.
Or the one that is cheaper, needs less fuel but you have troubles all the time, you have to argue with the customer service about very cheap spare parts even if you bought hunderts of trucks from them....

But competition is good, everybody should buy what he think fits him best.
I am out from that diskussion. Because I have decided for Avalon

ComputerGenie
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January 05, 2017, 03:34:27 PM
 #22945

If you are a trucking company would you buy the truck that costs more and need more fuel but drive on the road all the time, making money. And if something is defective you have very good customer service.
Or the one that is cheaper, needs less fuel but you have troubles all the time, you have to argue with the customer service about very cheap spare parts even if you bought hunderts of trucks from them....
...
As for your analogy....
That's so flawed that I don't even know where to begin....
Since 66 is the LCM...
   Unit Cost   Power Usage   TH/s   Power/TH   (kWh) cost USD   Yearly Power Cost/TH   Yearly Power Cost @ 66TH   Purchase Cost for 66TH
A7$1,222.29*   1,000.00   6   166.67   $0.10   $146.39   $9,661.87    $13,445.19
S9$1,232.00   1,185.80   11   107.80   $0.10   $94.67   $6,248.40   $7,392.00

Edit: purchase price alone, you could buy 11 S9s (not counting the 1 that the power cost difference makes), throw 5 in the trash (having never used them) and still save $.

Edit 2: *based on retail price in yxt's singature

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
tournamentdan
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January 05, 2017, 04:33:32 PM
 #22946

If you are a trucking company would you buy the truck that costs more and need more fuel but drive on the road all the time, making money. And if something is defective you have very good customer service.
Or the one that is cheaper, needs less fuel but you have troubles all the time, you have to argue with the customer service about very cheap spare parts even if you bought hunderts of trucks from them....
...
As for your analogy....
That's so flawed that I don't even know where to begin....

Actually it is spot on. Except for his argument of course.
You see I am a owner operator truck driver. I know all to well the maitinance of a trucking company.  Big trucks cost big money. Which is why you have to maximize your profits. You have to maximize your gross income because there will always be costs that drive down your net income. Costs are a fact of life. Or should I say a fact of business. There are going to be failures. I expect there to be failures. But that is just part of business. There are brand new cars that have recalls on them. Brand new toasters that do not work when you buy them.

I have not had any problem with cold solder. Which makes up a good part of the complaints. I have not had problems with over heating because I do not have them in a closet in my house hashing away. I think we can all agree there has been an infux of people that are new to mining. (Including myself ) Those are the people misusing the equipment.  Overclocking, under ventilation, power surges. I am not pointing fingers at anyone on this thread. After all. Equipment failure is part of business. It's just there are bad business people not treating their equipment right that make it seem that there is a high failure rate.
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January 05, 2017, 04:35:47 PM
 #22947

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that S9s aren't a steaming pile of bovine dung; I'm saying that, dung or not, they pay the bills better than the current alternatives.
Not if they're not finding blocks...

I am not sure how to interpret this from a practical point of view.
do other pools have the same phenomenon? What about slush's or other non-bitmain associated pools?
If they do-I will subscribe to this argument of "poison" S9 v1
If they don't-?
ComputerGenie
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January 05, 2017, 04:38:43 PM
 #22948

... It's just there are bad business people not treating their equipment right that make it seem that there is a high failure rate.
AKA hobbyists  Wink

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
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January 05, 2017, 05:39:30 PM
 #22949

... It's just there are bad business people not treating their equipment right that make it seem that there is a high failure rate.
AKA hobbyists  Wink

I tripped over the power cable to one of the PSUs running my S9 and it spiked the mains and now that hash board doesn't power up. PSU is still good so I suspect the regulator has died but it's too cold to take it apart because two S7s aren't enough to keep my flat warm.

Is that what you mean by hobbyist? Wink
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January 05, 2017, 05:42:10 PM
 #22950

...Is that what you mean by hobbyist? Wink
When I stop lmao, I will answer that.  Tongue

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
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January 05, 2017, 06:13:17 PM
 #22951

If you are a trucking company would you buy the truck that costs more and need more fuel but drive on the road all the time, making money. And if something is defective you have very good customer service.
Or the one that is cheaper, needs less fuel but you have troubles all the time, you have to argue with the customer service about very cheap spare parts even if you bought hunderts of trucks from them....
...
As for your analogy....
That's so flawed that I don't even know where to begin....
Since 66 is the LCM...
   Unit Cost   Power Usage   TH/s   Power/TH   (kWh) cost USD   Yearly Power Cost/TH   Yearly Power Cost @ 66TH   Purchase Cost for 66TH
A7$1,222.29   1,000.00   6   166.67   $0.10   $146.39   $9,661.87    $13,445.19
S9$1,232.00   1,185.80   11   107.80   $0.10   $94.67   $6,248.40   $7,392.00

Edit: purchase price alone, you could buy 11 S9s (not counting the 1 that the power cost difference makes), throw 5 in the trash (having never used them) and still save $.

your price is  off on the a7  they are $888.00 before shipping not   1,222.29

I paid 2,032 for 2 with 1 controller  so if you use 1016  not 1222.29 you total for 11 = 11176  that counts shipping and gives you 5 rasp pi's

my last s9 was 60 to ship so 1232 + 60 = 1292 x 6 = 7752

so s9 = 7752

avalon 7 = 11,176

if 1 s9 breaks that is  16.667% loss
if 0 A7 breaks  that is 0% loss

so  7752 x 1.16667 = 9044  act cost of the s9  not 7752

so compare 9044 to 11,176

next if the old s9 is really 83%  block luck

9044 x 1.16667 = 10551 is what 66th of old s9 costs you   vs 11,176

power you did at 10 cents do it at 5 cents

a7 = 4831  not 9661
s9 = 3124  not 6248

So this would be a lot closer to realty for people  that can do 66th of gear and purchased the old s9's

cost of the old s9's were a lot  higher then  the numbers used here. but some of the time blocks were 25 not 12.5



But that just numbers.

So if you want to prove a point at least  use the right prices for the avalon 7's

it still shows that s9's are  better not a lot  but still better

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January 05, 2017, 06:22:27 PM
 #22952

your price is  off on the a7  they are $888.00 before shipping not   1,222.29

I paid 2,032 for 2 with 1 controller  so if you use 1016  not 1222.29 you total for 11 = 11176  that counts shipping and gives you 5 rasp pi's
Quote
Edit 2: *based on retail price in yxt's singature

So, @ $1016, you only get to throw 4 unused S9s in the trash instead of 5  Tongue

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
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January 05, 2017, 06:23:37 PM
 #22953

... It's just there are bad business people not treating their equipment right that make it seem that there is a high failure rate.
AKA hobbyists  Wink

I tripped over the power cable to one of the PSUs running my S9 and it spiked the mains and now that hash board doesn't power up. PSU is still good so I suspect the regulator has died but it's too cold to take it apart because two S7s aren't enough to keep my flat warm.

Is that what you mean by hobbyist? Wink

Well I didn't quite mean it like that. I think the difference between the two is how much money you have to invest.  And with out a doubt there are stupid people with money to invest. And smart people with little money to invest.
This thread does have a lot of hobbyists. And I have learned a good bit off of them. For example. There were many people on this very thread that wrote "do not buy the first few batches of the s9. They will have problems just like the S5 and s3 did". And I did not buy until batch 5. Which must be the reason why I am not having any problems. So it sounds like other people did not use the same wisdom.
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January 05, 2017, 06:27:44 PM
 #22954

Hey,

Anyone noticed Avalon 741 or know what is the difference from 721?

https://github.com/Canaan-Creative/avalon7-docs/wiki/AvalonMiner-741-firmware-downloads
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January 05, 2017, 06:29:33 PM
 #22955

...There were many people on this very thread that wrote "do not buy the first few batches of the s9. They will have problems just like the S5 and s3 did". And I did not buy until batch 5. Which must be the reason why I am not having any problems. So it sounds like other people did not use the same wisdom.
Like I said, I'm not saying that they are without issues (I have some from batch 4 that run ~10 rather than ~13, but I'm "OK" with it because the ROI on downtime and shipping would take 27 months to equalize).

I'm simply saying that you have to be completely unconcerned with ROI, or just a complete fanboy, to say that the 2 rigs (S9 and A7) are even in the same market for comparison.

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
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January 05, 2017, 06:50:05 PM
 #22956

After edit:
...
OK, so using your revised set of numbers, for the same $ purchase, you get 8 S9's, 4 backup control boards, and 1 backup hashboard....
Which gives you 2 rigs on the shelf (to run when your imaginary "16.667% loss" takes place, twice...)...
So, with the S9 package, we have spare parts for all of the controllers (2 from the shelved rigs plus the 4 for equal cost), 7 spare hash boards (6 from the shelved rigs), greater power efficiency (enough to buy a 9th rig just from savings, by your own numbers), and someone's still a fanboy? Shocked

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
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January 05, 2017, 07:00:46 PM
 #22957

Well I didn't quite mean it like that. I think the difference between the two is how much money you have to invest.  And with out a doubt there are stupid people with money to invest. And smart people with little money to invest.
This thread does have a lot of hobbyists. And I have learned a good bit off of them. For example. There were many people on this very thread that wrote "do not buy the first few batches of the s9. They will have problems just like the S5 and s3 did". And I did not buy until batch 5. Which must be the reason why I am not having any problems. So it sounds like other people did not use the same wisdom.
I disagree. It's not how much you have to invest; it's what proportional importance mining has to your overall situation. A hobbyist does something because they enjoy it, and can afford to "lose" money on it...perhaps. I've been mining since the beginning, and I think that to assume because I run around 24TH at this point in time that I'm a hobbyist is...frankly...ridiculous. I'm partially disabled and live primarily on VA disability and SS. Mining provides a significant percentage of my net spendable (or invest-able, depending). OTOH, there was at time back in the day when I had a net worth of ~USD15M (1980 dollars). The crash in '07, plus nearly dying, drained every pence of my resources, and changed all that. So...I think those sorts of comparisons are not very helpful, because I'm not unique in that way.

My last point is that one should not have to think about waiting for the first few batches to show up the real bugs before buying...or that there should be a situation requiring...basically...running the mfr's burn-in beta tests at the expense of your customers' power and frustration. Now, THAT sucks.
 Kiss

To infinity and beyond...on two 741s and one of only 3...nope, make that 4...full nodes in Hawaii...on <30A. (I have other gear on the Hoth ice planet)
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January 05, 2017, 07:21:11 PM
 #22958

Hey,

Anyone noticed Avalon 741 or know what is the difference from 721?

https://github.com/Canaan-Creative/avalon7-docs/wiki/AvalonMiner-741-firmware-downloads
Well...from the look of it (haven't had time to read into it)...Canaan is working on the next iteration, which I would expect for them to be doing at this point. That's the great thing about open source. I should take a look at the code and see what I can see.  Grin

To infinity and beyond...on two 741s and one of only 3...nope, make that 4...full nodes in Hawaii...on <30A. (I have other gear on the Hoth ice planet)
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January 05, 2017, 08:04:25 PM
 #22959

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that S9s aren't a steaming pile of bovine dung; I'm saying that, dung or not, they pay the bills better than the current alternatives.
Not if they're not finding blocks...

I am not sure how to interpret this from a practical point of view.
do other pools have the same phenomenon? What about slush's or other non-bitmain associated pools?
If they do-I will subscribe to this argument of "poison" S9 v1
If they don't-?


Are you saying the bad luck this pool is having is not really bad luck, just S9 not finding blocks on this pool?

Meanwhile the latest S9v1 statistics on the pool since the S9 existed:

They've found 82 Blocks, but expected to have found (BDR) 110.666 ...

Kano does a luck report regularly to find block withholders - they show up as making no blocks at all over an extended period when they should have made some (it's random so you can't detect it until they've been hashing many blocks' worth). He reports it here regularly though I'm not sure everyone understands the implications of the report. The S9 batch 1 across all miners as you see above by now should have found 110 blocks based on the total hashes they've submitted to this pool but have so far only found 82. This is by far worse than any other device that we can positively identify. We can only speculate why this is, but the batch 1 firmware also had some other stratum extension that was never working on any pools so it was removed in later firmware. It is possible there is some kind of bug in the original firmware.

This is why he was urging everyone with S9s that was still on v1 firmware to upgrade. I'm aware that you lose some kind of frequency control or fan control or something by upgrading but that's nowhere near as bad as (potentially) losing blocks.

As for whether other pools are affected, we can only report accurately what happens here, and only speculate what is happening on other pools based on people grumbling about bad luck on almost every other pool thread. It certainly looks like global luck has been down across all pools since the S9 came out, but I can't say anything for certain.

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January 05, 2017, 08:12:44 PM
 #22960

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that S9s aren't a steaming pile of bovine dung; I'm saying that, dung or not, they pay the bills better than the current alternatives.
Not if they're not finding blocks...

I am not sure how to interpret this from a practical point of view.
do other pools have the same phenomenon? What about slush's or other non-bitmain associated pools?
If they do-I will subscribe to this argument of "poison" S9 v1
If they don't-?


Are you saying the bad luck this pool is having is not really bad luck, just S9 not finding blocks on this pool?

Meanwhile the latest S9v1 statistics on the pool since the S9 existed:

They've found 82 Blocks, but expected to have found (BDR) 110.666 ...

Kano does a luck report regularly to find block withholders - they show up as making no blocks at all over an extended period when they should have made some (it's random so you can't detect it until they've been hashing many blocks' worth). He reports it here regularly though I'm not sure everyone understands the implications of the report. The S9 batch 1 across all miners as you see above by now should have found 110 blocks based on the total hashes they've submitted to this pool but have so far only found 82. This is by far worse than any other device that we can positively identify. We can only speculate why this is, but the batch 1 firmware also had some other stratum extension that was never working on any pools so it was removed in later firmware. It is possible there is some kind of bug in the original firmware.

This is why he was urging everyone with S9s that was still on v1 firmware to upgrade. I'm aware that you lose some kind of frequency control or fan control or something by upgrading but that's nowhere near as bad as (potentially) losing blocks.

As for whether other pools are affected, we can only report accurately what happens here, and only speculate what is happening on other pools based on people grumbling about bad luck on almost every other pool thread. It certainly looks like global luck has been down across all pools since the S9 came out, but I can't say anything for certain.

If you absolutely can not  upgrade to the new autotune firmware (my case until April)  You can pull from this pool and point to Antpool or f2pool

Just point auto tune s9's here  or in my case avalon 7's.  At the moment I have all my avalon 7's here and all my s9 old firmware at f2pool.

I am hoping to get some  bitfury and point here.


The goal is to get all old firmware s9's off this pool

or updated to auto firmware if you can.

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