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[sorry2xs]

whats 12 times the diff amongst friends

[kspare]

Hey Guys, i'm kinda new to the game here. I've been playing around with 4 s7's for a couple weeks now. I own an IT company with our own data center so we are kind of running an experiment with these 4 to learn more about pools with multiple machines, how to manage multiple machines etc.

I've read about why to use kano vs antmine and I fully support that. but as we build a business plan to invest in hardware etc to go big ~150 machines. The problem i've had so far, and keep in mind this is over the last 2-3 weeks.... I get better results with antmine.

With my 4 boxes I can do a steady and predictable 0.1btc with my 4 miners. On here the last few days i'm lucky if i'm getting 0.05.

Am I missing something?

Another question I have is with a machine that finds a block. Does that user get a larger reward or what happens?

I'm aware of the halving, we're working to build experience and knowledge so we can make a very good educated decision on how to move forward after the halving and the potential new hardware.

Kano, we're in canada also and own two smaller data centers, we should chat about a canadian node?

Thanks in advance!

Well why not do  50-50    for 30 days.

 ½ at kano.is with antpool as back up
 ½ at antpool with kano.is as back up

compare each 30 day shot.

  long term kano.is has had better results  but running 150 machines cost money for manpower and electric power.

a 10 day cold streak is more likely to happen here
but antpool has had cold streaks.

so a 50-50 mix of the two is more likely to smooth variance better and you can at least say you are doing 50% morally correct.  I define morally correct as trying to go long term with the game not kill the goose for the golden eggs.

after 3x 30 day comparison test you can reevaluate . your deployment.

I am smaller then your setup will be even if I fill the solar array with buysolar

 we are going to do 13 to 16 kwatts  which is 60th max with current generation.

I switched my miners to have two on kano and 2 on ant mine. i'll leave them go for 30 days and see what the results are. I can see the payout here getting better as I stay on, but the found blocks aren't steady. So we'll see what happens. it's looking to me right now that my 4 machines are maching about 0.05btc per day and on antmine I was getting 0.1 per day.

I'm using pplns payout on antmine as well.

[firetreeactual]

Hey guys and girls, I keep seeing about how bitcoin will split in half and I am assuming that means instead of 25 bitcoins per block it will be 12.5 bc per block and at that rate ...ouch..
My question is why will it do that and if anyone knows of more efficient machines or ways of mining because that is going to hurt and I want to grow not shrink.
I read somewhere on forum but can't find it about new chips coming out but can not find any info on it.

Every 210,000 the coinbase block reward halves.

It was originally 50BTC, then halved at block 210,000 to 25BTC, next will halve again at block 420,000 to 12.5BTC ... etc

That's about as clear an explanation as I've heard. My own take is I'm not worrying about it. That's the way Satoshi designed it, and there are good reasons, and I think that's why the system is going to persevere. It's all interactive...reward rate, spot price...and the considerations re mining and power costs figure into that. I'm very fortunate that I have free power where I live, and the landlord is not complaining (they are on massive PV anyway). Mining, however, is only a precursor to the future of Bitcoin. I feel that anyone mining Bitcoin to pay the rent or mortgage should probably learn to play Texas Hold'em and find a good card room. You'll do better, probably. My own objectives are some sort of retirement security that is not dependent on the fiat system (sort of like a 401K) and independent of the stock market, and...seriously...to support the Bitcoin concept and keep it healthy, because I believe it will be critical in our global future. I don't put a lot of mental effort into diff %'s and the other math involved (although I know how to do it...it's just not my favorite thing). I get up in the morning, get a cup of coffee, sit down at the console in my living room that now looks, sounds, and feels like a data center, check kano.is and my wallet, and at least read this forum. That's why I'm here (at kano.is). No BS (well, maybe a little from time to time, but in good humor), no smoke and mirrors, just business and reasonable interaction with intelligent folks. Sorry for the long ramble. Thanks, Kano. You've "done good."

[winspiral]

Halving will be the "end" for many minermen...
The strongest ones will overlive.
Who will spend cash for losing cash?
After the halving ...people will keep up...and the "give-uper" will then give oxygen to the survivors...
Mining hardware will be traded for low prices...

[DrFoster]

Halving will be the "end" for many minermen...
The strongest ones will overlive.
Who will spend cash for losing cash?
After the halving ...people will keep up...and the "give-uper" will then give oxygen to the survivors...
Mining hardware will be traded for low prices...

If we consider that Bitcoin has a chance of being much more valuable in the future (or also worthless if things go poorly) then depending on where you think the value will go you can offset present losses against future gains. Of course we'll always want to strive for the best short term profit as well to increase our chances at future gains, but it's not the only factor.

[coinits]

Halving will be the "end" for many minermen...
The strongest ones will overlive.
Who will spend cash for losing cash?
After the halving ...people will keep up...and the "give-uper" will then give oxygen to the survivors...
Mining hardware will be traded for low prices...

I use them to heat my house. It works out to be cheaper to heat my house with my miners then with them turned off and heating by my baseboard heaters. I will only mine in cold weather now. It has made me like winter more than I used to. 

[winspiral]

Halving will be the "end" for many minermen...
The strongest ones will overlive.
Who will spend cash for losing cash?
After the halving ...people will keep up...and the "give-uper" will then give oxygen to the survivors...
Mining hardware will be traded for low prices...

I use them to heat my house. It works out to be cheaper to heat my house with my miners then with them turned off and heating by my baseboard heaters. I will only mine in cold weather now. It has made me like winter more than I used to. 

And you are right...it is what I do with my aquariums...in winter they cost me less than in summer where the windows are widely open.
of course it will not be the end of mining...onmy the end of some miners who are not is your situation.

[Darwin84]

Halving will be the "end" for many minermen...
The strongest ones will overlive.
Who will spend cash for losing cash?
After the halving ...people will keep up...and the "give-uper" will then give oxygen to the survivors...
Mining hardware will be traded for low prices...

thats a bad prediction. you are looking at from very narrow perspective.

if the reward splits for miners there could also be a 100% increase in price. meaning that nothing has changed.

[winspiral]

Halving will be the "end" for many minermen...
The strongest ones will overlive.
Who will spend cash for losing cash?
After the halving ...people will keep up...and the "give-uper" will then give oxygen to the survivors...
Mining hardware will be traded for low prices...

thats a bad prediction. you are looking at from very narrow perspective.

if the reward splits for miners there could also be a 100% increase in price. meaning that nothing has changed.

Why should the price increase and not decrease?

[clgrissom3]

Halving will be the "end" for many minermen...
The strongest ones will overlive.
Who will spend cash for losing cash?
After the halving ...people will keep up...and the "give-uper" will then give oxygen to the survivors...
Mining hardware will be traded for low prices...

thats a bad prediction. you are looking at from very narrow perspective.

if the reward splits for miners there could also be a 100% increase in price. meaning that nothing has changed.

Why should the price increase and not decrease?

Theoretically because of supply and demand...because there is less BTC coming in the BTC demand and price will go up.  That's what every miner out there is hoping for!

[winspiral]

Halving will be the "end" for many minermen...
The strongest ones will overlive.
Who will spend cash for losing cash?
After the halving ...people will keep up...and the "give-uper" will then give oxygen to the survivors...
Mining hardware will be traded for low prices...

thats a bad prediction. you are looking at from very narrow perspective.

if the reward splits for miners there could also be a 100% increase in price. meaning that nothing has changed.

Why should the price increase and not decrease?

Theoretically because of supply and demand...because there is less BTC coming in the BTC demand and price will go up.  That's what every miner out there is hoping for!

this is so only if the market has not yet included the halving in the price...if it is already done...it will or can decrease.

[clgrissom3]

Halving will be the "end" for many minermen...
The strongest ones will overlive.
Who will spend cash for losing cash?
After the halving ...people will keep up...and the "give-uper" will then give oxygen to the survivors...
Mining hardware will be traded for low prices...

thats a bad prediction. you are looking at from very narrow perspective.

if the reward splits for miners there could also be a 100% increase in price. meaning that nothing has changed.

Why should the price increase and not decrease?

Theoretically because of supply and demand...because there is less BTC coming in the BTC demand and price will go up.  That's what every miner out there is hoping for!

this is so only if the market has not yet included the halving in the price...if it is already done...it will or can decrease.

You are absolutely right...no one can predict what is actually going to happen.  I choose to take a positive approach...

[tlhIlwI]

Yesterday I added another Avalon 6 to this pool.  This one is a performer too... It easily averages around 3900GH on the pool without even being turned up to the maximum voltage it will take.

Setting this one up should have been easy, but Murphy was conspiring against me yesterday.  It took several hours to get everything working correctly.  Part of the process was reducing the speed on two of my SP20s to move them from two to one PSU to free up one PSU for the new A6.  Everything was planned well in advance, but I managed to mess it up.  In the process I embarrassingly managed to get some PSU cables crossed up, and wound up overloading a supply when tweaking a miner setting because the cables were not where I thought they were.  After resolving that issue the new A6 wouldn't detect in the rPi, which turned out to be a bad SD card (the last thing I checked, naturally).  After fixing that and getting it running I discovered a configuration issue where my Avalon 6s were trying to act as DHCP *servers* and causing problems with IPv6 and DNS resolution of PCs on the LAN.  Turning off odhcpd on the Raspberry Pi fixed that.  Then just as I finished tidying the Ethernet cables with zip ties one of them went bad and I had to undo all of the ties to replace the cable.  Of course in frustration I unplugged the wrong one......

Anyway, everything has been stable for 18 hours now.  Block please!

[tlhIlwI]

One of my WestHash rentals pointed here that has been idle for days just came to life when the rental price broke into the 0.0028 range.  It is acting peculiar today though-- I'm only renting 6T but the worker diff has shot up to 44,196!  It looks like that worker is only turning in a share every couple minutes.

Has anyone ever seen this happen before?  Is there a fix?

I don't want to risk stale work or something.

[nhando]

One of my WestHash rentals pointed here that has been idle for days just came to life when the rental price broke into the 0.0028 range.  It is acting peculiar today though-- I'm only renting 6T but the worker diff has shot up to 44,196!  It looks like that worker is only turning in a share every couple minutes.

Has anyone ever seen this happen before?  Is there a fix?

I don't want to risk stale work or something.

No fix, they will dump extra hash for you regardless of what you set your limit at depending on the surplus amount.  So you got to monitor it closely.   I've seen them give me hundreds of extra TH when I'm not paying attention.   You can watch the same results on the list and see how when rental demand is lower, most everyone get more hash then what they set their limits to. 

[tlhIlwI]

One of my WestHash rentals pointed here that has been idle for days just came to life when the rental price broke into the 0.0028 range.  It is acting peculiar today though-- I'm only renting 6T but the worker diff has shot up to 44,196!  It looks like that worker is only turning in a share every couple minutes.

Has anyone ever seen this happen before?  Is there a fix?

I don't want to risk stale work or something.

No fix, they will dump extra hash for you regardless of what you set your limit at depending on the surplus amount.  So you got to monitor it closely.   I've seen them give me hundreds of extra TH when I'm not paying attention.   You can watch the same results on the list and see how when rental demand is lower, most everyone get more hash then what they set their limits to.  

Not extra hash-- I know about that.  This is the work difficulty at the pool that I'm asking about.  It seems to be stuck at 44,196 even though the rental is only running at 6T (well, actually fluctuating between 4T and 10T as usual, but averaging around 6T).  This is what my workers page looks like (WH worker is the rental):

Code:

Worker Name:	Work Diff	:Last Share	Shares	:Diff	:Share Rate	«Elapsed	:Invalid	Block %	:Hash Rate
tlhIlwI.WH	44.196k	3min	155	6,850,380	8.43THs	9m 23s	0.000%	0.002%	4.41THs
tlhIlwI.065	3.014k	1s	20,395	61,470,530	3.84THs	9m 23s	0.157%	0.014%	3.90THs
tlhIlwI.064	3.080k	12s	19,678	60,608,240	3.48THs	9m 23s	0.248%	0.014%	3.82THs
tlhIlwI.062	1.042k	10s	17,965	18,719,530	1.06THs	9m 23s	0.106%	0.004%	1.18THs
tlhIlwI.060	1.042k	2s	16,798	17,503,516	1.16THs	9m 23s	0.107%	0.004%	1.12THs
tlhIlwI.061	1.042k	1s	16,685	17,385,770	969.79GHs	9m 23s	0.096%	0.004%	1.09THs
tlhIlwI.063	1.042k	6s	16,132	16,809,544	1.17THs	9m 23s	0.118%	0.004%	1.08THs
Total: 7 (9 miners)	107,808	199,347,510	20.10THs	 	0.161%	0.045%	16.59THs

I checked my worker/management settings and that worker has a minimum diff set to 2,052 (so that WH doesn't complain if it goes under 2,048).  The rental has stopped now (rates went up), but while it was running it was only turning in shares once every 30s to 3 minutes.  There were only 155 shares through the entire rental duration.  

It seems the pool vardiff should have come down from 44,196, but it remained stuck there throughout the entire rental.

Edit: And now it has started back up-- WH is giving me just over 5T but the workers page says it has been 4 minutes since the last share and the diff is still stuck at 44.196k.  Last share was stale.  Delta is now -83% red.

[kano]

Firstly, it takes both a few minutes and a few shares before difficulty will change.

Secondly, the difficulty has the same 'no effect' on rejected shares as it has on accepted shares.
'no effect' meaning it only affects variance, not the expected average result.

As an example, if you are mining at 100,000 diff instead of 1,000 diff, you will find 1/100th the number of shares.
Shares still have the same chance of being accepted or stale, but since you have 1/100th of them, you have the same expected average rejected diff vs accepted diff.
Since the variance is higher (fewer shares), it takes longer to get the expected average.

If you happen to have an early run of a stale share, that's, unfortunately, just bad luck.
You can have the exact opposite of course also, of having a long run of no stale shares and thus having a way better reject ratio.
That's variance. There's no expected gain or loss, just variance.

[nhando]

I did a quick test for you.  This is what I'm showing via a 5TH rental pointed at Kano.



First 1minute and 50s, NICE HASH is pumping in less than 1TH but the share rate is showing much much higher on Kano as it's flooding in

Worker Name:   Work Diff   :Last Share   Shares   :Diff   :Share Rate   «Elapsed   :Invalid   Block %   :Hash Rate
nhando1977.xx   2.048k   1s   140   286,720   10.57THs   1m 54s   0.000%   0.000%   280.21GHs


5Mins later  (Work diff jump up to 5.472K).  Of course I bought only 5TH but got almost 9TH due to setting high price so it can hit quicker for this test.

Worker Name:   Work Diff   :Last Share   Shares   :Diff   :Share Rate   «Elapsed   :Invalid   Block %   :Hash Rate
nhando1977.xx   5.472k   0s   202   602,016   8.53THs   5m 0s   0.000%   0.000%   550.96GHs


10 Mins Later (Same Same)  

Worker Name:   Work Diff   :Last Share   Shares   :Diff   :Share Rate   «Elapsed   :Invalid   Block %   :Hash Rate
nhando1977.xx   5.472k   54s   292   1,094,496   7.61THs   10m 14s   0.000%   0.000%   1.21THs

I stop the rental at 9mins and 30 seconds to see if the Diff will drop.  

At the 20Mins mark, the diff stayed the same

Worker Name:   Work Diff   :Last Share   Shares   :Diff   :Share Rate   «Elapsed   :Invalid   Block %   :Hash Rate
nhando1977.xx   5.472k   11min   292   1,094,496   3.90THs   20m 0s   0.000%   0.000%   1.18THs


Conclusion?  NH must have at some point bump your hashing limit to much higher than what you set it to, so the difficulty was adjusted automatically to the higher end but it never did drop back down as your hash rate settle back to where it was set as a limit.  I know that for my Megahash rental my difficult rate is really really high but it's been a long time since I rent any hash rate for Kano.

[clgrissom3]

Block by sabercatt with 45THS!  That's his 2nd kano block!

Man, it's good to get that one out of the way...

[tlhIlwI]

Conclusion?  NH must have at some point bump your hashing rate to much higher than what you have set so the difficulty was adjusted automatically to the higher end but it never did drop back down as your hash rate settle back to where it was set as a limit.  I know that for my Megahash rental my difficult rate is really really high but it's been a long time since I rent any hash rate for Kano.

If it doesn't affect rewards then I'm not bothered by it, but the work diff does seem stuck so I reported it.  It looks like I may have briefly peaked at 20T near the beginning for less than a minute (typical WestHash over-provisioning), but even that doesn't equal 44k (though I suppose it could have been 100T+ for 5 seconds which showed as 20T to me... I have no way to know).  That said, I would have expected the diff to adjust downward in the 2 1/2 hours that followed (far more than a few minutes).  Doing the math, I was averaging about 1.5 shares per minute for 2 1/2 hours.  Of course, since I saw 4 minute gaps in there, there must have been some faster bursts mixed in.  Maybe I just had a very choppy rental??

I did use the same worker name back during the >600% forever block for a bigger rental (50T range) and the stuck diff seems more in line with that rate.  Could something simply be stuck for that worker from way back then?