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Author Topic: Crypto Kingdom - 1991 Retro Virtual World(City)  (Read 632634 times)
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rpietila (OP)
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March 13, 2015, 06:22:33 PM
 #1141

The concept of a Building
Feedback required!

Hi, I would really appreciate if I have missed some important attribute of the builded space!  Smiley

Eg. "should the terrace/balcony area be counted as anything towards the Restaurant use?"

I'm about to start making the data structure now, and it will be quite fixed from then on to eternity, because of the interlinkings to all the game formulas, and because making changes would require so large updates in the data (on average, we have 4 "buildings" per character!)

And any other feedback of course. Giving feedback does not delay the V.4 coming ready, but not giving might cause embarrassing omissions to important concepts  Embarrassed

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March 13, 2015, 07:28:24 PM
 #1142

The concept of a Building
Feedback required!

Hi, I would really appreciate if I have missed some important attribute of the builded space!  Smiley

Eg. "should the terrace/balcony area be counted as anything towards the Restaurant use?"


I'm about to start making the data structure now, and it will be quite fixed from then on to eternity, because of the interlinkings to all the game formulas, and because making changes would require so large updates in the data (on average, we have 4 "buildings" per character!)

And any other feedback of course. Giving feedback does not delay the V.4 coming ready, but not giving might cause embarrassing omissions to important concepts  Embarrassed

One thing I think that is important is the ratio of building to garden on a property. This may already be covered by the comfort points, but I think if there was more emphasis put on the beautification aspect, people may be more inclined to spend money landscaping. I don't know how hard this is to change, but you could have different levels of landscaping. Level one may be grass, but level 5 could be a rose garden, for example. Providing direct benefits to people because of their landscaping would ultimately lead to a better looking town, and people wouldn't game the system for m^2 as much.

for realistic design of buildings, it also may also be a good idea to give more points for buildings that have toilets, cupboards, maid's quarters, etc. This may already be in the formulas though-I don't have full understanding of them.

Also regarding the conversation you had with the Bishop, would now be a good time to put in the REL points as well?

*edit*

Perhaps buildings shouldn't be immediately built either--instabuild is kind of a strange concept, but it *is* just a game. Just thought I'd mention it.

Also--zoning requirements. I'm not aware of any specific zoning requirements (e.g. this area is required to be commercial). if you had those, people could buy special permits to rezone an area (additional income for town) so they could build a palace in the middle of commercial areas. That could increase the value of the residential property because of proximity to shops as well...



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March 13, 2015, 09:08:25 PM
 #1143

Excellent points!

One thing I think that is important is the ratio of building to garden on a property.

This is about to come now, V.4.

different levels of landscaping. Level one may be grass, but level 5 could be a rose garden, for example.

Has been in the spexes, probably in the V.6-7

for realistic design of buildings, it also may also be a good idea to give more points for buildings that have toilets, cupboards, maid's quarters, etc. This may already be in the formulas though-I don't have full understanding of them.

Currently anything made of wood, is not implemented, ie. must be imagined to be there, but does not affect play. Therefore toilets (which in those days resided outside) are not mostly visible. Grand Hotel uses different rooms for this, Noble Palace brings the bowls to whereever they are needed. Richer people have a back garden where the relief can be had, poor people do it where convenient.

We currently have about 60 sqm floor area per inhabitant, but it was not always so. Once the minimum wage NPC could only rent 3-5 sqm, so not even a full room. This is another reason why most of the apartments historically are one-room only.

Perhaps buildings shouldn't be immediately built either

Building companies employ lots of builders, and they produce BLD (building points). These points are daily assigned to projects, which makes small ones possible to be completed in 1 day (1 game-month), but larger ones take possibly a very long time, especially if they are used as "BLD overflow" projects, to be advanced only if the sales department has not been able to contract paying jobs.

Also--zoning requirements. I'm not aware of any specific zoning requirements (e.g. this area is required to be commercial). if you had those, people could buy special permits to rezone an area (additional income for town) so they could build a palace in the middle of commercial areas. That could increase the value of the residential property because of proximity to shops as well...

There are many types of typically arbitrary regulations concerning building. "Zoning" for commerce vs. residential is not one of them, because I personally think it would add neither fun nor realism to the game, and the pool payout formulas quite naturally direct the central areas to be used for commerce.

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March 14, 2015, 12:41:47 PM
Last edit: March 15, 2015, 12:16:09 AM by rpietila
 #1144

The concept of a Building
EDITED many times since posted * * Under implementation in Char DB /BLDG
See the intro from a few posts back
Feedback still accepted Smiley !

SUBGAMES

HOUSEHOLD - about the same as now, allowing breathing room for the changes in NPCs, and making them provide some benefit even when not assigned to any actual job; but the HOUSEHOLD requires a large palace from the owner, because the owner's own use (up to 1,000 sqm) is automatically added to the space usage

SPECIAL - apart from providing SCI, CUL as now, it will start to be able to produce IND (industry) points. Industry is regulated and requires Royal Permission (mercantilism, eh..), but these points will give the charter holders the way to expend resources that will be converted to windows and clothes for example. Also HHP (management) points will be able to be produced, to boost the Household/Business HQ management in cases where the primary dwelling lacks space. Industry will be the way to produce arms and other needed things in the future. Also similar mechanism will in the near future be used to convert the building laborer work to BLD points, which will replace the current monetary input of "labor" in the Building project.

RESTA - will continue quite like before but with more realistic rules determining the suitability of the location and the profitability, which will (like in the Most Ancient times) be heavily dependent on the players again, and other formulas that can now automatically adjust to changes and snuff micromanagement.

HOTEL - the suitability for a building to be a classy hotel will now be evaluated better, at the same time there will arise opportunities for insta conversion of an NPC hive to a guesthouse and back, based on the need in the location and proximity of similar places nearby. The staff will continue to be a major factor in the upscale market as well as other considerations evaluated automatically.

RENTAL - we aim to make this such that it automatically selects between Residential, Office and Commercial rental pools, always taking the one that gives the best return. It can also be that the owner needs to choose but automatic should be easier than customizable.

ARMY - the fighting rules will not be implemented just yet for actual fights at least - the time of V.4 will be for the armies to train and become more effective, and for the Countryside rules to mature and become more interesting. Also the Armies will have to be lodged in garrisons, and will gain payouts from the Guarding pool relative to their conditions of stay and their fighting strength.


So, back to the buildings! Those subgames are basically conversions of investments (NPC's, building area, tools) and money, to (hopefully) more money, and other desirable points and things. Previously the conversion formula has relied heavily on the NPCs, with some consideration on the location of the business and even less to the actual buildings and tools there. This is about to be changed, to make the Building (a functional subdivision of a Lot, coinciding to an actual building or a part thereof with distinct attributes) such that it gives a great boost if designed with its intended purpose (negating the usefulness to another), or, if designed to be a multipurpose one, to give average payout and more flexibility.

How to accomplish this is a classic game design challenge. The different attributes that the building must have, should be:
- relatively few, with useful abstractions ("lux%")
- coincide with the "mandatory" architect decisions (height, room sizes, windows, arrangement)
- balanced (should give actual choices for different options, not be a "finding-an-optimum")
- actionable by the subgame formulas to give interesting and fair results  
- realistic and logical to be understood easily
- fun.

BUILDING ATTRIBUTES AND PARAMETERS
(in my parlance, an attribute is something you cannot easily change once you have made the design decision, a parameter can be changed with less difficulty, the difference is somewhat blurred)

Bldg_id <- global id which at present is a number. Buildings are property of Lots, but since Lots may be sliced and diced, it is up to decision if we want the building id to be in the form of "1-C-F7-2" or "37". The former would be more useful in some contexts but would require changes more often than a static number.

Lot_id <- global id, used to assign the building to its owner Lot
Own_id <- global char id, mirrored from the Lot. (Buildings cannot be owned by characters, they are owned by lots, which in turn are owned by characters.

Bldg_name <- text

Build_yr <- first building year of this building. In the beginning, this is easy to determine. If you add material changes to the same building, this anciety will be lost. It is safer to make additions as separate Buildings with a new Build_yr.

Renovated_yr <- last renovation. For a renovation that adds to repair%, luxury%, etc, this year is reset. It is a good thing because some businesses benefit from the building been recent, in which case this counts. (Some may even benefit from it being both old and new, which are possible at the same time.)

Floor area <- same as before. The part of floor area that is required to get into different Buildings is not counted. If a hall is 1-2 wide, it is used up as a corridor. If it is 3 or more wide, a reduction of 1-2 m from the width is applied according to the traffic. U/C

Terrace area <- area of terraces. A terrace needs to be elevated from the ground (pedestal) and may be at any level, including balconies and roof terraces. Balconies do not (any more) require a stone railing. If you leave it without, a wood railing (no cost) will be used, or perhaps metal when we get the metalworking in full gear. Stone railing may continue to be used as an aesthetic element. Terrace area adds to the desirability of the buildings, especially of those that are used as a restaurant.

Lux% <- same as before; lux gives items as dividends occasionally and these items can be detached without affecting lux. For two areas having a different lux%, they must belong to different buildings.

Repair% <- result of the earthquake and (from now on) normal aging, can be "Renovated" to reach 100% again. The repair% being high is more important for luxurious and important buildings. For low-grade buildings, they are economical to renovate only when quite run-down, and then demolish is also an option.

Height <- area-weighted average height. If the building has minor differences in height (if the area with a different height is so small that it does not make the rounding differ from the height of the dominant area), it can be listed under the dominant area height. If the building is of very different heights so that the rounding result does not correspond to the height of the dominant area (eg. if 20%*3 m, 80%*6 m, average = 5.4 m = 5 m != 6 m), 2 buildings must be created.

AIC <- one time field for AIC dividends given in 1600. See below.

Culture <- current "esteemed building" concept. Some buildings create culture to their owner based on their existence (as well as NPCs). New points are given slowly based on popular vote.

Number of Apartments <- due to increases in living standards, 17% of the NPC's can now invest 165,000 m/year in housing, and for this money it's possible to rent a 53 sqm in Master's Village! Constructing as small as possible apartments is not a concern any more, but having more rooms in a compact apartment is prized. Otherwise there would not be so many of them because building walls is not only expensive but also reduces the area. The total sqm of the Building is divided by the number of Apartments. An Apartment is defined as the smallest functional area in the Building, which can be reached from outside using public areas.

Number of Rooms Corridors etc. do not count as rooms.

Windows <- gives comfort and status. This has been in use before but needs to be calculated again because we want a greater range of results, and also the views have changed. If the Building is residential type, consisting of distinct Apartments, average is used:

Window ratio
+1  more than 1:12
+2  more than 1:7
+3  more than 1:4
+4  more than 1:2
+5  more than 1:1
(apply -1  for each full 20% of the floor area being totally without windows, or more than 8 m distance from the nearest window, lesser areas are not penalized because it's good to have closets)

Sunlight
+1  unhindered sunlight from east, south, or west at least a few hours per day
+2  unhindered sunlight from at least 2/3 directions, most of the day
+3  windows to 3/3 directions and nothing is blocking the sun all day
(the proximity to the buildings and height of you and them determines the sunlight. For small apartments, each apartment cannot have sunlight in all of the directions so they are evaluated separately and average is used. Having windows to the north has never any benefit to Sunlight)

Views
+1  nearest building at least 10 m away in at least one direction, garden/paved area in between
+2  nearest building at least 10 m away in 2 or more window directions, garden/paved area in between
(add +1 if building is so high that you see above the roofs of the nearby buildings (need to have buildings nearby for this))
(note: Views does not give points if the area is not developed in the 10 m range, nor of course if you dont have a window. North does count for views.)

Sights
+1  at least one Beautiful building in sight
+2  at least one Cultured building in sight (Cultured buildings are automatically Beautiful)
+3  at least 3 Cultured buildings or 1 Most Cultured building in sight
+4  Several Most Cultured buildings in sight (ie. both the Royal Palace and the Old Obelisk)

Shopfront <- increases revenue in trafficked areas. This is just a simple ticker that requires the Building to have several doors and windows directly to the street. It is also a negative and heavy minus for a residential.

Access to public park/square <- gives comfort and status, esp. to residences. Direct floor area/park area ratio does not work because parks are not all the time used by the inhabitants, also they may use public parks, and the existence of parks brings benefit even when not in use.
+1  nearest public park 10 m or less away (if 100 sqm), 20 m or less away (if 400 sqm), 30 m or less (if 3000 sqm), measured from the edge of the lot
+2  nearest public park 0 m away (if 100 sqm), 10 m or less away (if 400 sqm), 20 m or less (if 3000 sqm)
+3  nearest public park 0 m away (if 400 sqm), 10 m or less away (if 3000 sqm)
+4  direct access to King's Park
(add +1 if the building is facing a recognized square)
(note: private park in own lot counts as well and is always 0 m away, but it must be at least 7 m wide (if 100 sqm) and 10 m wide (if 400 sqm))

Garden/area ratio <- Here only own gardens count, and if gardens are usable by many buildings of the lot, this should be divided accordingly. Higher ratio means more gardens.

Zen <- awards peace of mind bonuses to beautiful and stately buildings and room plans, punishes gaming the system via the design of ugly buildings with unrealistic and stupid room plans. It will be taken into use later.

Beautiful <- the first stage of a building to gain renown due to its architectural merits. Buildings that are judged beautiful based on their facade gain this point. All Cultured and Most Cultured buildings are automatically classified Beautiful.

the "S/" are suitability points for different uses based on the room plan, and they greatly affect the use. It is possible to use anything for anything but the output is best when using the buildings for their intended purposes.

S/Resta
+1  if the Building has a separate Kitchen with access to the restaurant, which is a reasonably connected area (may have cabinets)
+2  if the Building is designed/remodeled to be a restaurant ($$)

S/Apt
+1  if the Building consists of separate rooms or separate apartments designed with only the minimal public spaces such as lobbies and staircases and having no more than 2 m wide corridors (an entrance/front desk hall is ok, also some public space if the building is luxurious)

S/Resid
+1 The Building is designed to be a single dwelling in one lot (PC or high-ranking NPC). It actually has to be such to gain this point. (If it has separate parts that are designated Buildings, this does not matter, although only the main part gains the point.)

S/Hotel
+1  if the Building has balanced public areas (more than in S/Apt low lux case) with mostly rooms, rooms accessible inside and about right amount of public areas corresponding to lux (more lux = more public areas)
+2  if the Building has direct access to a major street, yet no rooms are in the street level, has different types of rooms with some being big or customizable, and the right size range of rooms and amount of public areas corresponding to lux (more lux = bigger rooms, more public areas)

S/Special
+1  the Building is made for the purpose of hosting a special institution or is suitable for being a public building (typically more halls than would fit in any other category, though might overlap with Hotel and some Palaces) <- for complete guide on overlapping see /BLDG
+2  specially made for a purpose that makes using it for anything else difficult (large hall, botanical gardens, factory)

S/Army
+3  the building has a parade ground of at least 20x30 m directly accessible, the building looks fearsome and is defensible, the floorplan is suited for a garrison (almost anything goes though), including rooms for materiel
-1 each missing thing from the list

In all these cases it's important to not over-compartmentalize the lots to too many Buildings. Eg. a special Music Hall requires all the lobbies for crowds to gather, it is not forbidden to have toilets and storage rooms, and also most businesses have management that consumes space and for their purposes the space may be reserved. If the management is much larger than the space available at the site, it may be rented.

This is a tradeoff between having only one Business in one Building (which we plan to do), having Buildings correspond to the natural concept of buildings, and having space with separate parameters as separate Buildings, to add realism and flavor to the game.


SCI <- this gains bonus when used by an institution producing SCIence, value costs ($$) and may be 1 or higher

CUL <- this gains a culture bonus ($$)

IND <- industry requires machinery and other costly things. value here indicates that the price is paid ($$), greatly boosting IND


The following parameters are relevant to the Businesses, and are customizable by making business choices not directly related to the Building.

RESTA business parameters
- Quality of Food <- formula from other inputs
- Quality of Service <- formula from other inputs
- Intimacy <- smaller is better
- Famous <- player vote
- Special <- gets point if owner does not have other restaurants
- Private <- quality points, but halves the revenue

HOTEL business parameters
- Service <- formula from other inputs
- Famous <- player vote
- Special <- gets point if owner does not have other hotels
- Private <- quality points, but halves the revenue

SPECIAL business parameters
- Output selector <- how to divide the output between CUL, SCI, IND and HHP


Registry fee. In connection with the implementation of the new Building Registry, a registry fee of 2 mil per building is levied by the town, payable to the admins doing the work. This will be collected automatically. If due to negligence of the Building owners, Architects, BI, etc (as registered in the City Map DB /Bldg Reg) the collection of the data takes longer than it should, additional fees may be levied on the problematic buildings. To be on the profiting side, please apply to help us in the work! Smiley

AIC.
Ancient Items Credits have a deterministic formula that will be applied to the buildings when they are in the DB. The AIC are a spinoff that does not reduce the value of the buildings. They will be able to be changed for Ancient Items of their creation date (the building date) in the future versions, according to a "price list" that you can use to "buy" the items. The conversion will be restricted to the type of items actually in use in the "source building", but they do not change the owner automatically just because the building is later sold, before the conversion. Trading with AIC is not allowed for now, to reduce the complexity.

Earthquake. The Earthquake will reduce the repair% of the buildings, in many cases greatly. The worse condition the building is, the less its use value, and the more it costs to repair it. Stone is only destroyed to a very small degree, it can mostly be reused even if the building collapses totally. Buildings below the "line" in the old Registry do not suffer from the Earthquake.

Guarding. Every building is subject to pay the Guarding fee, which will be distributed to the Army units doing the guarding duty, as before (except that before the Army did not actually get the money, but soon will.)

City Walls. The things have pacified such that no new city walls has been built for some time. Enemies are far, and the guards and the King's judicial system have kept small crime in check. For now, the antiquated rules for building city walls have been lifted.

Land Taxes and Haws. The land tax will be instituted probably based on the sqm area of the buildings (similar as guarding). Buildings in haws are exempt of this tax. We will not grant any new haws now, as they are not needed (land is anyway either free or very affordable). In the nearest real-months, God willing, an unprecedented undertaking in the Borough Versailles will be started, and the King invites his choice Nobles to build palaces there next to his Royal Presence.


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March 14, 2015, 01:19:41 PM
 #1145

Registry fee. In connection with the implementation of the new Building Registry, a registry fee of 2 mil per building is levied by the town, payable to the admins doing the work. This will be collected automatically. If due to negligence of the Building owners, Architects, BI, etc (as registered in the City Map DB /Bldg Reg) the collection of the data takes longer than it should, additional fees may be levied on the problematic buildings. To be on the profiting side, please apply to help us in the work! Smiley


I would like to offer my services to help out with the registry fee work if still needed Smiley

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March 14, 2015, 04:43:26 PM
 #1146

Registry fee. In connection with the implementation of the new Building Registry, a registry fee of 2 mil per building is levied by the town, payable to the admins doing the work. This will be collected automatically. If due to negligence of the Building owners, Architects, BI, etc (as registered in the City Map DB /Bldg Reg) the collection of the data takes longer than it should, additional fees may be levied on the problematic buildings. To be on the profiting side, please apply to help us in the work! Smiley

I would like to offer my services to help out with the registry fee work if still needed Smiley


Ah shame that I just took 2.5 hours to create all the ancient coins (except the ones to be minted in 2 days) to the database. That would have been a work suitable for you Cheesy Anyway, the coins are now there in the database: /GOLD_COINS tab.

If we stick to the convention that trade in the coins is the trade in the collectible value only (and the balances of the gold stay constant), it is possible to just change the ownership of the coin from this tab. Also gifting only transfers the collectible value, so if a poor person receives lots of gold collectible value, he may not be able to create them all, resulting in a loss.

A note for the collectors:
* 95 different coins exist, and I seem to have the most different ones (but even this number is only 42)!
* the entire mintage of 27 coins is currently in one hands (in none of the cases me!)

Let's see what kind of museums/collections/trade practices will emerge.


Once I get the buildings attributes locked in, hopefully today, then I can gladly utilize you for that as well.



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March 15, 2015, 12:19:59 AM
 #1147

Building attributes are now locked in!

See /BLDG for all that will be there. At first the 30 different fields look daunting but once the data is there (and ~100 buildings have at least started), all the economic subgames and as many others as can be imagined, will be able to be hosted/updated fully automatically, their only inputs being the NPC's and the Building they are situated in.

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March 15, 2015, 02:40:25 AM
 #1148

Very interesting thread! I have a CK speculation question which I'll post here for want of a better thread.

Some properties (land and buildings) have cost significant amounts (~1000 XMR) or more. If XMR one day was to equal ~1000 USD each, then the equivalent 'value' of such a property inside CK would be 1,000,000 USD to the owner. That's OK for the early adopter who bought XMR when it was going cheap, but what about new comers? Who's going to pay the equivalent of 1M USD for a primo virtual game property in a few years time if XMR explodes in price?

Maybe early adopters will try and keep CK property prices reasonable to spread adoption, but that means 1 XMR inside CK has a lower expected future value today than 1 XMR outside CK in a wallet somewhere. Does anyone expect many new players will pay 1000 XMR to buy a primo property if/when 1 XMR=1K USD in years to come? I think that is unlikely for all but a few thousand other people who became super rich from crypto. The pool of future potential buyers will be small, so it seems obvious to assume that most new players will be peasants, and early land owners will only ever be able to sell property for an XMR loss (but maybe a nice fiat gain).

If both XMR and CK become popular then the vast majority of future players (above the first few hundred) will not own property, at least not in the ancient boroughs. I'm interested to hear opinions from the early adopters. You need more people to play, but it looks likely that most new players will have to be content with being 'peasants', so what plans are there to attract and keep non land owning players? How will peasant play be made satisfying?

The only alternative to spread land ownership would be a massive drop in CK property prices, (1000 XMR property bought 'now' sells for 1 XMR in a few years time), but that's a big hair cut for early adopters when those same 1000 XMR outside CK might have been worth a cool million USD if sold on an exchange, assuming XMR ever scales the heights btc did at the last peak.

I think the early adopting real estate barons of CK are doing a cool thing, but they're taking a big risk with their XMR too, but I guess they probably know this already. How it all plays out will be good to watch. Great addition to the crypto landscape!
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March 15, 2015, 02:43:02 AM
 #1149

Very interesting thread! I have a CK speculation question which I'll post here for want of a better thread.

Some properties (land and buildings) have cost significant amounts (~1000 XMR) or more. If XMR one day was to equal ~1000 USD each, then the equivalent 'value' of such a property inside CK would be 1,000,000 USD to the owner. That's OK for the early adopter who bought XMR when it was going cheap, but what about new comers? Who's going to pay the equivalent of 1M USD for a primo virtual game property in a few years time if XMR explodes in price?

There is no guarantee that prices of in game assets denominated in Monero wouldn't decline in Monero if Monero went up (though also no guarantee the other way). You see this happens sometimes when BTC goes up a lot some of the alts drop at the same time. They are just maintaining closer to constant value relative to fiat.

Also, bear in mind that land in the game is unlimited. Even if (huge if) central land goes up enormously in value, there will still be plenty of land for new players to buy and enjoy at reasonable prices farther out. New towns can be developed, etc. There is no risk of anyone being shut out of the game due to land prices going up.

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March 15, 2015, 02:55:27 AM
 #1150

KLONE brought up a very good point, which is my concern as well. I would be much more comfortable if we can exchange ckg/whatever other currency in game as xmr at some constant exchange rate, and simply have the game charging a % tax for resources imported from foreign lands (i.e, people using their xmr to join CK)
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March 15, 2015, 03:01:34 AM
 #1151

Very interesting thread! I have a CK speculation question which I'll post here for want of a better thread.

Some properties (land and buildings) have cost significant amounts (~1000 XMR) or more. If XMR one day was to equal ~1000 USD each, then the equivalent 'value' of such a property inside CK would be 1,000,000 USD to the owner. That's OK for the early adopter who bought XMR when it was going cheap, but what about new comers? Who's going to pay the equivalent of 1M USD for a primo virtual game property in a few years time if XMR explodes in price?

There is no guarantee that prices of in game assets denominated in Monero wouldn't decline in Monero if Monero went up (though also no guarantee the other way). You see this happens sometimes when BTC goes up a lot some of the alts drop at the same time. They are just maintaining closer to constant value relative to fiat.

Also, bear in mind that land in the game is unlimited. Even if (huge if) central land goes up enormously in value, there will still be plenty of land for new players to buy and enjoy at reasonable prices farther out. New towns can be developed, etc. There is no risk of anyone being shut out of the game due to land prices going up.



I think a realistic opportunity to own land without a huge fiat cost is a key requirement for viral adoption, so it's good to hear that land is unlimited. I think it's good for game play to have a realistic distribution of wealth and land, and what's happening so far is realistic of medieval society, and if new towns start then I can see opportunities for second and later waves of interest. There is a tension between rewarding early adopters on the one hand for starting things, and giving later players the "damn, I missed out on the lucrative early times" feeling. I'd say at this stage the thing CK needs most is a web version and a "gold rush" mentality for 100s & 1000s of new players.
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March 15, 2015, 03:34:14 AM
 #1152

KLONE brought up a very good point, which is my concern as well. I would be much more comfortable if we can exchange ckg/whatever other currency in game as xmr at some constant exchange rate, and simply have the game charging a % tax for resources imported from foreign lands (i.e, people using their xmr to join CK)

A bit of confusion perhaps? The in-game currency is moneritos which is purchased with XMR at a constant 1 000 000 : 1 exchange rate. CKG (aka gold) is not the currency but is an asset (like land, etc.). CKG also has the special role of collecting dividends from the town/game profit. CKG has a floating exchange rate, but moneritos do not.

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March 15, 2015, 03:45:52 AM
 #1153

Implementing the buildings in the new format is going at a rate of ~2000 sqm/hour, or 7-8 minutes per building. I have started with the interesting buildings.

What it means is that at the current speed, it'll take 50 hours to do it, and then draw/add the Lot-specific pixel images as well for roughly an equivalent amount of work. It's about expected.

I believe to have tested the format sufficiently so that others can start adding/converting the buildings and I can do the final ones that are hard for others to do. This will save up my time for design.

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March 15, 2015, 03:45:58 AM
 #1154

Nevermind, it is difficult to fully grasp everything involved in just a few days. It may or may not have been easier if I was here from the start and followed through all the developments.

Is there ANY vague timeline of when the game will go online? For example, in a month? 3 months? half a year? a year?
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March 15, 2015, 03:56:28 AM
 #1155

KLONE brought up a very good point, which is my concern as well. I would be much more comfortable if we can exchange ckg/whatever other currency in game as xmr at some constant exchange rate, and simply have the game charging a % tax for resources imported from foreign lands (i.e, people using their xmr to join CK)

A bit of confusion perhaps? The in-game currency is moneritos which is purchased with XMR at a constant 1 000 000 : 1 exchange rate. CKG (aka gold) is not the currency but is an asset (like land, etc.). CKG also has the special role of collecting dividends from the town/game profit. CKG has a floating exchange rate, but moneritos do not.

If people could trade & withdraw moneritos somehow then I think the risks I mentioned previously (early adopters not being able to sell their property for a similar XMR value in the future) could be traded to others more easily. That would make things interesting! Earlier on land barons seemed to be buying for almost altruistic reasons to save XMR from the doom that was around in Sept/Oct. That's really cool but XMR looks strong now.

The one way direction for XMR (in but not out) does give CK a certain "black hole" quality. CKG being two directional with the outside world does make it *very* valuable. Lots of really interesting parameters at play here!!
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March 15, 2015, 04:03:39 AM
 #1156

Is there ANY vague timeline of when the game will go online? For example, in a month? 3 months? half a year? a year?

I think the estimate is in weeks now.
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March 15, 2015, 04:05:50 AM
 #1157

Is there ANY vague timeline of when the game will go online? For example, in a month? 3 months? half a year? a year?

Of these, "a month" is certainly closest.

I will have to design the online game, and concurrently, some data will be converted (such as the Buildings thingy).

Then the Tech Devs know exactly how to tailor the DB and make the links and scripts.

Then some testing and we are good to go.

In the days of yore, we had the idea of starting small and fixing bugs + adding features as we go. Now all eyes are turned on us so that we cannot so easily launch an unfinished product, so the process takes a little longer.

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March 15, 2015, 05:00:58 AM
 #1158

If people could trade & withdraw moneritos somehow then I think the risks I mentioned previously (early adopters not being able to sell their property for a similar XMR value in the future) could be traded to others more easily. That would make things interesting! Earlier on land barons seemed to be buying for almost altruistic reasons to save XMR from the doom that was around in Sept/Oct. That's really cool but XMR looks strong now.

Why would you want to reduce risks for earlier adopters? The whole point of being an early adopter is to take risks, potentially rewarding risks, but not necessarily.

Quote
The one way direction for XMR (in but not out) does give CK a certain "black hole" quality. CKG being two directional with the outside world does make it *very* valuable. Lots of really interesting parameters at play here!!

Yes it will be interesting to see how it all turns out!
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March 15, 2015, 05:27:41 AM
 #1159

Is there ANY vague timeline of when the game will go online? For example, in a month? 3 months? half a year? a year?

Of these, "a month" is certainly closest.

I will have to design the online game, and concurrently, some data will be converted (such as the Buildings thingy).

Then the Tech Devs know exactly how to tailor the DB and make the links and scripts.

Then some testing and we are good to go.

In the days of yore, we had the idea of starting small and fixing bugs + adding features as we go. Now all eyes are turned on us so that we cannot so easily launch an unfinished product, so the process takes a little longer.
I really didn't want to seem like I'm trying to "rush" the development process, I am not. It should take as long as the devs and you think it needs to take. I just wanted a vague timeline so that I can kind of prepare on my end, whether it's understanding the game rules better, or filling up on BTC/XMR etc.

@Smooth: I don't want to speak for KLONE, but I don't think of it as "reducing risk", but increasing potential. As he said, if XMR suddenly turned to $1000 per, no one would buy into the game, not at current prices. I don't think it's likely for such a game to increase its value relative to XMR. I understand that it's a game, not an investment tool. Still, I'm sure a lot more people are willing to consider it, given a 2-way exchange, from XMR to game currency and back. Again, Entropia Universe does this and has been online for 10 years or more now. Well, I never played it so I can't comment on it much, but I think such a system is worth looking into.

At the risk of looking like a no good greedy pig, I am also going to suggest a signature campaign, for example, giving 10 or 5 stones per post or something like that, or offering incentives to have people mention this game in their blogs/websites, have an ad banner or whatever. Maybe titles like "The Preacher" for people who invite 10 players to the game. Just tiny incentives so that it doesn't devalue the current inventory in game, but at the same time will help spread the word about the game at a low cost.
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March 15, 2015, 05:37:57 AM
 #1160

If people could trade & withdraw moneritos somehow then I think the risks I mentioned previously (early adopters not being able to sell their property for a similar XMR value in the future) could be traded to others more easily. That would make things interesting! Earlier on land barons seemed to be buying for almost altruistic reasons to save XMR from the doom that was around in Sept/Oct. That's really cool but XMR looks strong now.

Why would you want to reduce risks for earlier adopters? The whole point of being an early adopter is to take risks, potentially rewarding risks, but not necessarily.



I think the longer term CK property prices (in XMR) are likely to go down for reasons already mentioned, so the early adopters are taking a double dose of risk (XMR into CK property), and likely rewards might be less than just leaving XMR in a wallet for later sale. I think if moneritos could be withdrawn and traded in some way, then people can buy and sell CK real estate knowing they can withdraw into the 'real world' if they need to, and that will attract more players/buyers, and so spread the early adopter risk among more people. At the moment I see the early adopters as benefactors almost, because 1000 XMR in a wallet will probably have a higher value than a CK property bought now for 1000 XMR. The upside for CKG is really good, but property I'm less certain off. I could be completely wrong, and maybe CK property will have extra utility that isn't obvious to me yet.
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