[Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation

[Maria]

The reason why Matthew N Wright wants me to shut up, is because he is involved with bitcoinica and according to him, he helped and advised Zhou in the process.

Matthew, you are included in the lawsuit. You knew about the shady deals going on behind the curtain and did not inform the community. How much money did you make by assisting this deal?

Maria.

First of all, "the community" isn't a collection of people to whom Matthew or anyone else owes any duty of disclosure.

Second of all, apparently you also knew of these "shady", behind the curtain deals and told no-one.

Third of all, this forum contains a permanent record of you seeking assistance to help people bypass Venezuela's laws regarding online purchases.  I doubt you're going to be suing anyone.

[1713429841]

1713429841

[1713429841]

1713429841

[vuce]

What exactly is this supposed to be, proof of you spamming Matthew with coinexchanger links?

[Raoul Duke]

The reason why Matthew N Wright wants me to shut up, is because he is involved with bitcoinica and according to him, he helped and advised Zhou in the process.

Matthew, you are included in the lawsuit. You knew about the shady deals going on behind the curtain and did not inform the community. How much money did you make by assisting this deal?

Maria.

First of all, "the community" isn't a collection of people to whom Matthew or anyone else owes any duty of disclosure.

Second of all, apparently you also knew of these "shady", behind the curtain deals and told no-one.

Third of all, this forum contains a permanent record of you seeking assistance to help people bypass Venezuela's laws regarding online purchases.  I doubt you're going to be suing anyone.

http://i47.tinypic.com/fenb0z.png

Maria, thank you for confirming to everyone that still had doubts that you and coinexchanger are indeed the same person.

Now for the real question: If coinexchanger was banned why are you still here?
From what I could understand, multiple accounts are permited, unless you get banned, in which case you get all your alts also banned, just like Atlas.

[vuce]

The reason why Matthew N Wright wants me to shut up, is because he is involved with bitcoinica and according to him, he helped and advised Zhou in the process.

Matthew, you are included in the lawsuit. You knew about the shady deals going on behind the curtain and did not inform the community. How much money did you make by assisting this deal?

Maria.

First of all, "the community" isn't a collection of people to whom Matthew or anyone else owes any duty of disclosure.

Second of all, apparently you also knew of these "shady", behind the curtain deals and told no-one.

Third of all, this forum contains a permanent record of you seeking assistance to help people bypass Venezuela's laws regarding online purchases.  I doubt you're going to be suing anyone.

http://i47.tinypic.com/fenb0z.png

Maria, thank you for confirming to everyone that still had doubts that you and coinexchanger are indeed the same person.

Now for the real question: If coinexchanger was banned why are you still here?
From what I could understand, multiple accounts are permited, unless you get banned, in which case you get all your alts also baned, just like Atlas.

but you don't understand, her "husband" made this screenshot! 

[Maria]

Correct, coinexchanger is my husband. I am his wife.

We are forex traders and we have been doing this before bitcoin existed.

Maria.

[Vladimir]

Dear anonymous cowards, what is wrong with you? Why are you going after Zhou?

It is like one buys a house just to find out that all the copper pipes are torn out. Then goes to argue with the plumber that put it in the walls in the first place instead of arguing with the party that sold you the house.

This just makes no sense whatsoever.

And let me tell you that yes myself and Matthew did advise Zhou in the very beginning and are proud of it, whether Zhou have chosen ultimately to follow that advise or not.

Now for those of you with conspiracy theories that Zhou does not exist. I know for a fact that Zhou indeed exist and is a real person and has not misrepresented his identity on this forum. Your theory is just silly and has no basis in fact.

Damn anonymous cowards, stop projecting YOUR modus operandi on other people.




 

[proudhon]

Maria is my first ignore.  I'm not a virgin anymore.

And to be clear, I do appreciate the communication we're getting, though, as others have expressed, I'm puzzled by the different messages we're receiving from different Bitcoinica representatives (or in Z's case, volunteer?).  Also, to be fair, when the issue was raised a while ago I voted for the longer more precise process, so, in a sense, I'm getting what I asked for (sort of).  Clearly the process is taking a long time (so you got that much right), but what's not clear is exactly what's being done, how much will be returned, to what extent anyone who submitted claims is considered honest by those managing Bitcoinica now, etc.  That's the frustration.  The inconsistent messages over time.

[Raoul Duke]

Sorry about the off-topic but...

Correct, coinexchanger is my husband. I am his wife.

We are forex traders and we have been doing this before bitcoin existed.

Maria.

By doing this do you mean scamming(or at least trying to)?

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Correct, coinexchanger is my husband. I am his wife.

We are forex traders and we have been doing this before bitcoin existed.

Maria.

Hey everyone,

For what its worth, I've met Leo (Coinexchanger) and Maria in New York City when Leo was in town on business.

We had some beers, and talked Forex and finance.

In the past we've had some successful business transactions, and I've never had a worry wether he would pay up.

When conducting your own business transactions, its always good to do due diligence as I have done with Leo. If engaging business with anyone, don't take my word for it, rather check up yourself.

He has good credit with me, and regardless of what happens in the forum I've never been scammed by him

Have a great night

Charlie

[Bitcoin Oz]

Sorry about the off-topic but...

Correct, coinexchanger is my husband. I am his wife.

We are forex traders and we have been doing this before bitcoin existed.

Maria.

By doing this do you mean scamming(or at least trying to)?

Its funny how after the first bitcoinica hack coinexchanger/maria  was crowing about handling stolen bitcoinica funds. And now they are demanding preferential treatment after this latest incident . I find that interesting 

[repentance]

The irony of Maria demanding money from zhou and the CoinExchanger website carrying this message is rich.

Zhoutong from bitcoinica.com

Please refund the bitcoin community their bitcoins. Many people will lose faith in the network because of your fault. Do not damage the bitcoin image with your irresponsible business ways.

For those with short memories, CoinExchanger claimed following the Linode intrusion that the hacker was dumping the stolen coins on his exchange and that they were his to do with what he wished.

I paid for those 12K coins already. They are mine to do as I please.

Fincen does not regulate bitcoin. Nor any agency will investigate on the missing coins because lost bitcoins does not mean anything to anybody except for the person who lost them.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67044.0

Apparently Leo and Maria's philosophy when it comes to Bitcoinica thefts is "do as we say, not as we do".  

[rjk]

And about those extremely careful database backups from the Coinexchanger website... well as careful as they may be, they offer no protection against the stupid coding of the rest of the website. The thread where I posted all the information to was moved to the trashcan, but suffice to say that when I created an account on the site, it magically contained 300 and some odd bitcoins, a complete transaction history from another user, and would not allow any trades or withdrawals because of database errors and other mysterious problems.

And besides that, there was no market depth charts, nor any way to see how the market was moving... in short the entire website was rigged together with duct tape and twine, and offered no way to actually exchange any coins.

[guruvan]

You guys are losing support everywhere.

Phantomcircuit, you're still blaming zhoutong on IRC today. WTF man? Give it a rest, and just stay offline if you're going to fail at returning our funds.

Yeah - the scammer tag should be applied. There's little hope of getting funds back, and there's too much sketchy bs about the ownership and the hot potato Goat's referring to being passed around.

You try to intimidate your customers into ignoring their legal recourse.

(and for the lulz, I guess, phantom was suggesting that he might offer some "very secure VPSes"  - ok. that's a good one)

So - chit chat,taking care of Intersango, blaming former partners for your predicament, and planning the next debaclebusiness are more important than bothering to take care of the people you've left hanging.

Yes. proudhon is correct. No one, except maybe a few people with large deposits and big legal bills, will be getting their money back.

On the other hand, rg (rapeghost) told me on IRC he'd received his money back from bitcoinica.

So, what's really going on?

[isis]

If anybody decides to file a criminal complaint you will effectively guarantee that it will be months or even years before anybody sees their funds.

Seriously doing that is not the best way to get you funds back, indeed it is far from it.

That statement really concerns me and reinforces this idea I've been struggling against that you really don't have a clear understanding of the law and what your specific liabilities & responsibilities are in this matter.  I'm not a lawyer, but your statement indicates you need to speak to one before replying.  If you have retained legal counsel I would like to know whom, there are some documents he/she will be needing to receive from me and probably others as well.

As for isis100 there isn't even a record of your being a registered user

For reference please see post #136 of this thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84042.msg937278#msg937278

Please re-read my original post.  The account was isis101 not isis100, if you can't confirm it with that, I also included a complete history of my transactions involving bitcoinica that I believed were easily verifiable.  If that's not enough for you to verify that I am the owner of the account then you really don't have any records from within 30 days of the hack.  All I'm asking is that you return those funds to the wallet they originated from.  It shows good faith on your part.

and you have completely failed to forward any information you have to verify@bitcoinica.com

You've not contacted me to request any information.  I'm not sending random information to you.  I will however send any documentation you require upon request.  If you have lost my private email address, please feel free to request specifics right here or use the private messaging system of this forum.

Again we are working on making this entire process be as fair as possible but the constant pressure from people who as far as i can tell are either just bored and entertaining themselves or attempting to scam funds is making the process take much longer than it should.

Again, I advise you to contact a lawyer very soon, explain the situation to him/her and feel free to show them my post(s) as well as your own.  They can explain to you what exactly is wrong with that quote.


@Zhou Tong, I've decided to remove your name from my criminal complaint.  I've been researching this further and in the process doing my homework on you.  I've come to realize you really are innocent and I apologize.  Innocent or not though, it doesn't change the fact that you do have liability here.  Even though someone may have sold you an "offshore banking" package and told you it would protect you.  It doesn't and in fact all it really does is make you look guilty.  A judge will apply the "smell" test and if it looks like there is anything untowards going on, he/she will pierce the veil and remove any limits to your liability.

At this point I doubt you really had criminal intent Zhou.  I've come to realize that you're just a young idealist, with sufficient programming skills to allow you to create a great site like bitcoinica.  Unfortunately it appears you did not have sufficient real world experience to understand how to properly secure a site like that.  Years ago I was exactly like that, my site grew too big, too fast, got hacked and it cost me dearly. That's a story for another time but needless to say I am sympathetic.

I will edit my posts and redact your name from my accusations.  Still you should be prepared to answer some serious questions when the time comes.  In the meantime please take efforts to preserve all of your communications both to the world at large and any internal discussions between you and your new handlers.  Now I've seen more posts from them I can see the path they are going down, you won't like the destination when they get there.  As you work through this mess, try to remember that win or lose the lawyers always get paid.  You would do well to contact an attorney well versed in international finance law on your own and run all this past him/her.

[phantomcircuit]

#1 - They claim to have the database, but to the best of my knowledge not 1 single person has received a refund.

Anybody claiming this is wrong.  There is some information that just happened to have been pulled prior to the break in.  I believe zhou said there was enough information that it's as good as the database, he's wrong it only covers about 1/5th of users.

#2 - After the supposed break in (yes I'm convinced that they weren't really broken into), they did not bother notifying authorities.

There was actually a break in.  There is little point in notifying anybody.

#3 - They originally claimed that the hot wallet had very few funds in it as a percentage portion of assets and yet there have been "company" reps saying the supposed silent investor has had to chip in because this rendered them insolvent?  Too many conflicting claims about their status.

As the original post said there was 18k BTC in the hot wallet.

#4 - A few days after the break in, the supposed hacker appeared in IRC and was tossing the stolen bitcoins left and right.

So what? He was using compromised servers as proxies.

#5 - The "silence is golden" non-responses we've been given are not indicative of people acting on the up and up.

There have been people posting on this forum almost everyday, just because there isn't anything new to say doesn't mean there is silence.

I'm convinced at this point that it's a line of BS and I just don't buy it anymore.

What I believe is the insolvency happened first (I never saw a cent in purported interest and the "break in" corresponded with the day I emailed them about it).  
There are very good odds that the break in was probably staged, the things they are claiming, such as a compromised email led to stolen coins and deletion of all customer data, really are too big a "screw up" especially after the last one.

They ought to get the scammer tag until every last cent has been returned.

As for the refund process, I've heard absolutely NOTHING from them relevant to my refund except an email asking me to verify my address which I did.
Has anyone else heard anything more?

Because of this I nominate everyone associated with Bitcoinica's spectacular crash & burn for a scammer tag.

*Message to Bitcoinica*
At this point Bitcoinica and everyone associated with their refund process, you have 5 days until I bring civil and criminal charges against you.  I'm sure others will join me, you will pay fines, you will go to jail if you don't start refunding now.  The corporate veil you are trying to hide behind does not protect you against criminal charges such as malfeasance, breach of fiduciary duty and embezzlement.  Look it up, you'll find I'm correct.  30 days without access to my funds and no word on your part except vague promises on a forum not related to your company, indicates all of those and is enough for any attorney to begin pressing charges.

I filed a claim the same day the claims form opened up.
You had my AML details already including a scan of my Drivers License, my account was Isis101, my wallet ID was 1PSQ4tWY4pTcAbgKozPXAWB9B8Cg4JCVMP
At the time of the alleged break in there was 21 BTC in my account, and $2.30USD.
Since the account was funded primarily with funds from mtgox, here is relevant mtgox history.

2012/05/02 22:08:09    Withdraw       5.04000000 BTC    0.00050275 BTC
Bitcoin withdraw to 1PSQ4tWY4pTcAbgKozPXAWB9B8Cg4JCVMP
2012/04/24 21:06:36    Withdraw       8.00000000 BTC    0.98840275 BTC
Bitcoin withdraw to 1PSQ4tWY4pTcAbgKozPXAWB9B8Cg4JCVMP
2012/04/24 21:06:02    Withdraw       8.00000000 BTC    8.98840275 BTC
Bitcoin withdraw to 1PSQ4tWY4pTcAbgKozPXAWB9B8Cg4JCVMP

This can also be verified by looking at blockchain explorer.

I request you return my BTC funds to the sending account 1K3xHb8R8E72i22Y8TqknXiey8zBa2JzLr
You can send certified funds for the $2.30 USD to the address on my Drivers License.

I know it sounds petty because It's not a lot of money, it's the principal of the thing.

***
I have edited this post to remove accusations against Zhou, after further research I determined that I was incorrect and he appears to just be caught up in something bigger than himself.  I apologize.  See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84042.msg952523 for specifics.  
***

None of the information provided matches any records we do have (I wouldn't be saying this in public as it's clearly a private matter except you have made this a public matter).

Make sure the email you opened the claim with matches your bitcoinica account.

[phantomcircuit]

All further communication regarding bitcoinica will be posted on bitcoinica.com or answer to specific questions from verify@bitcoinica.com

Responding to insane accusations and downright defamation is a waste of everybodies time which just makes this all take even longer.

[rjk]

All further communication regarding bitcoinica will be posted on bitcoinica.com

It's about fucking time you started using that website for more than just a placeholder.

[Maria]

Note to Admins:

My claim is here public, and I want my issue resolved publicly so that the community can witness whether I was Paid in Full or Not  I have posted My BTC address so the community can follow when the payment is made. I can accept MTGOX Codes via PM.

I will never visit bitcoinica.com or send anything to any email. Zhoutong has sent me BTC in the past and can not deny my existence.

Zhoutong also bought from us www.bitcoinnotify.com for 310 BTC and paid with no problem. By the way Zhoutong, why did you buy bitcoinnotofy.com if you were going to let it die? He knows who we are and where to send the money.

My account is very likely in the TOP 20 Users of bitcoinica and If you have any doubt on the volumes we transfer and handle, just read the history.


If np payment is received 48 hours from now, I respectfully request a Scammer tag for each of the members involved. This to prevent and help new bitcoin users not to get scammed.

Here is the list:

1- Zhou Tong
2- Tihan Seal
3- Genjix
4- Phantomcircuits
5- Intersango
6- Matthew N Wright.

Maria.

[isis]

None of the information provided matches any records we do have (I wouldn't be saying this in public as it's clearly a private matter except you have made this a public matter).

Make sure the email you opened the claim with matches your bitcoinica account.

No please, let's do make this public.  I don't mind at all actually.
What you have confirmed then is that you don't have records and you've also provided a date beyond which you no longer have records.
The date the account was registered was April 24th.
Here is a screen shot of the email that I received on that date.


Of course I realize that screenshots can be doctored, so I went ahead and forwarded the original email to verification@bitcoinica.com

Now on to the verification of deposits.  Unless you dispute that 1PSQ4tWY4pTcAbgKozPXAWB9B8Cg4JCVMP was a bitcoinica wallet address, you can easily see that it had a
Total Received 21.27506487 BTC by looking at the "Total Received" field on blockchain explorer
http://blockchain.info/address/1PSQ4tWY4pTcAbgKozPXAWB9B8Cg4JCVMP which is about what I showed from MtGOX.

Interestingly enough blockchain is showing something different than my MtGOX history when it comes to my transaction history.  Frankly I'm not sure how that's possible.  If anyone else would care to take a look at that history and confirm what my balance was as of the last transaction prior to the break in, I would be much obliged.  I'm willing to accept the information at blockchain as canonical proof of my account balance, whether or not it disagrees with anything I've said earlier.

By the way, thanks for the response!  I don't mind working this in public at all.  If it's enough to unclog some legitimate log jam maybe the community can help with the process.
 

[dopamine]

and the bitcoinica web site should have a new update saying they have not process one claim since the breach.