[Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation

[zebedee]

All you who think your claim should be based upon the current price are living in cloud cuckoo land.  That is not how it works in real life, and if you think about it rationally, it's not how it should work either.

Here's the way it works, talking from personal experience.

What happened when Lehman went bankrupt?  Many counterparties (mostly other banks and dealers) had tens of thousands of trades (read "bets") on with Lehman when they went bust.  The legal claim to the Lehman estate has no relationship to what subsequently happened to their trade as time passed (what a joke!).  The claim is what the value was *at the moment Lehman went bust*.

Yes, that means that if you had a position, it is your responsibility to find a new counterparty to resurrect that position, or consider yourself closed out.  If you can't find a counterparty, tough.  That's exactly what happened in the market.  Lehman went bust on Sunday night, and you would not believe the scramble it was on Monday morning for market counterparties to even work out what their market risk was on their Lehman trades, never mind recreate it at then market prices with new counterparties!  I'm certain many traders didn't know until hours or days later, and were flying blind (not where I worked though!).  If you sat around and did nothing that's cool, but that's your choice, you are closed out.  Your claim was the value of your trade at the moment the bankruptcy was announced.

It's irrelevant the price is now $5.90 and you were long on Bitcoinica.  It was your responsibility to put the long on again the moment the Bitcoinica "bust" was announced.  If it didn't, you effectively accepted taking profits / losses at that time.

If you try and sue to get some other day's value, you're wasting your legal fees.

[1713568121]

1713568121

[Mushoz]

So, how many customers have received a 50% refund of their account balance by now?

I got a mail asking how I want my refund (BTC or Mtgox code). So hopefully I'll receive my funds soon.

[flower1024]

So, how many customers have received a 50% refund of their account balance by now?

I got a mail asking how I want my refund (BTC or Mtgox code). So hopefully I'll receive my funds soon.

you got a mail which said you should add payout info to your claims page?

if so: everybody got it.

or did you get another mail?

[Mushoz]

So, how many customers have received a 50% refund of their account balance by now?

I got a mail asking how I want my refund (BTC or Mtgox code). So hopefully I'll receive my funds soon.

you got a mail which said you should add payout info to your claims page?

if so: everybody got it.

or did you get another mail?

Yeah, that was it. Afaik not everyone got that one, but I could be mistaken. Anyway, let's hope actual payments begin soon enough.

[ninjarobot]

Anyway, let's hope actual payments begin soon enough.

I'm getting slightly tired of the words 'hope' and 'soon', but yeah - let's hope so...

Btw, Looking forward to 'The factual statement of the day' for today from the Bitcoinica team!

[Raoul Duke]

So, how many customers have received a 50% refund of their account balance by now?

Maria? XD

All $0.14 of it lol
What a baller!

[tbcoin]

Now obviously I want my position liquidated at 5.9

Did I say 5.9? I wanna say 6.1

[MemoryDealers]

13 June 15:00: Initial payouts have been made to verified people for 50% of their claim.

Are you saying my account is not verified?

1) I filled out your online claim form.
2) You have my ID on file.
3) I met you in person in Vienna last week.
4) I provided my entire account history going back for months.

I have yet to receive any of my Bitcoins back.

Please help!

[h00ters]

I just want to ask, Was it worth it all you short-selling bastards?

btc is up compared to where it was a month ago. Fuck short-selling! Great job bitcoinica hackers!

That is all!

[Mushoz]

I just want to ask, Was it worth it all you short-selling bastards?

btc is up compared to where it was a month ago. Fuck short-selling! Great job bitcoinica hackers!

That is all!

Fact: Every BTC that gets shorted has to be bought back at a later time.
Fact: Every BTC that gets longed (on leverage) has to be sold back at a later time.

Bitcoinica's effect on the price is _always_ only temporary due to these simple facts.

[bitlane]

It looks like the Bitcoinica Consultancy will make a profit after all.

Covering a whole 50% of the so-called 20%-of-total loss should creep just far enough into their bottom line (profits) to make them look like Saints in the end, while 'giving something back' to all of their customers (better than nothing, right ?).

How the people at the top of the Bitcoinica Food Chain have been able to (up to this point) evade Litigation, Incarceration, a Mob 'Hit' or any type of 'personal call' that would demand some sort of face-to-face accountability, is far beyond me.

They somehow seem to have a 'knack' for survival on all fronts.

[trentreznor321]

I sent an email to Genjix asking about my claim status. This was his reply:

"Hi Dushan,

I see your claim but unfortunately your account has a zero balance in our
incomplete records. It is therefore unmarked and has no status currently."

My name is NOT Dushan! Are they that disorganized that they don't even know what email address is for what account? That info was all in my claim!

I also have had over $3000 USD in my account since Feb. They should have some record of that. I sent them my deposit info with the claim, so they should be able to match it to my account.

[LoupGaroux]

Ah but when what they SHOULD be doing runs into what they ARE doing in support of this massive scam, too bad no soup for you! Looks like the favorite good old boys will get 50 cents on the dollar, and the rest of the world, whom they think too small to take action, will get the "oh, so sorry, bad records don't you know, wasn't our fault, we just came to the party after she was already pregnant, evil hackzorz stole all the good records, (except the ones we need to actually pull funds out for ourselves...).

Another graduate from the Mr.Bitcoins/Bitscalper/Shakuru/MyBitcoin/Bitomat School of Business Ethics is making his mark on bitcoin. Yay, everybody get ready for the shafting... its coming any minute now.

[dopamine]

Anyone taking legal action yet? lets close everyone position when the hack happen and lets mitigate bitcoinica losses and say that we had to close out your position. and we will only release 50% of your claim because we don't even have a backup.

[bulanula]

Anyone taking legal action yet? lets close everyone position when the hack happen and lets mitigate bitcoinica losses and say that we had to close out your position. and we will only release 50% of your claim because we don't even have a backup.

The only people that should be considering this are the people that held USD.

Anyone trying to get back one Satoshi will sadly be laughed at.

IMPORTANT : did anyone here have BIG USD deposits and did they get them back ? That is the real question before we can determine if legal action is to be carried out here.

[imsaguy]

I just want to ask, Was it worth it all you short-selling bastards?

btc is up compared to where it was a month ago. Fuck short-selling! Great job bitcoinica hackers!

That is all!

Fact: Every BTC that gets shorted has to be bought back at a later time.
Fact: Every BTC that gets longed (on leverage) has to be sold back at a later time.

Bitcoinica's effect on the price is _always_ only temporary due to these simple facts.

Assuming they aren't a bucketshop that only does paper trades.

[superfastkyle]

What is the hold up? By now you have already made back that measly 18,000btc by zhoutong's own admissions. He said you still had 80% of your btc. Its now at $6.20 instead of $4.92 or so at the hack. Which means you are up by about 100 grand by now. So pay out everyone's btc/usd balances today not 50% not 80%. Every last cent of it. To those who have the time/money invested to bring this to court please do so now. It is about more than just the money we lost in my opinion. I will do my best to donate some btc for legal action, even though I'm broke. I had money for power/internet bills in bitcoinica. We need to make bitcoin a legitimate currency. Not a geek's hobby where hackers thrive and can run off with your money at any time. A non geek doesn't understand encryption or that the protocol isn't broken, nor would they care.

[ninjarobot]

So pay out everyone's btc/usd balances today not 50% not 80%. Every last cent of it.

The 50% percent refund is only the 'initial' payment. I assume they will pay *all* verified deposits back.
If this is not the case, and Bitcoinica is planning to leave it at a single 50% repayment I'd like to hear it now.

[bulanula]

Ah but when what they SHOULD be doing runs into what they ARE doing in support of this massive scam, too bad no soup for you! Looks like the favorite good old boys will get 50 cents on the dollar, and the rest of the world, whom they think too small to take action, will get the "oh, so sorry, bad records don't you know, wasn't our fault, we just came to the party after she was already pregnant, evil hackzorz stole all the good records, (except the ones we need to actually pull funds out for ourselves...).

Another graduate from the Mr.Bitcoins/Bitscalper/Shakuru/MyBitcoin/Bitomat School of Business Ethics is making his mark on bitcoin. Yay, everybody get ready for the shafting... its coming any minute now.

Since you seem to be so confident they are running with the $$$ how likely do you think they are also packing up with Intersango ?

"MAINTENANCE NOTIFICATION: 2012-06-16 00:00:00 BST - Will likely be down for several hours." on their website ?

Also, has anyone received ANYTHING back or are these just stalling tactics until they can really pack their Interbags too

[Vod]

Ah but when what they SHOULD be doing runs into what they ARE doing in support of this massive scam, too bad no soup for you! Looks like the favorite good old boys will get 50 cents on the dollar, and the rest of the world, whom they think too small to take action, will get the "oh, so sorry, bad records don't you know, wasn't our fault, we just came to the party after she was already pregnant, evil hackzorz stole all the good records, (except the ones we need to actually pull funds out for ourselves...).

When in reality the bitcoins have been transferred or spent by the Bitcoinia team.  There is no legal recourse against a 17 year old, which I mentioned when Bitcoinia first launched.