BitBay |Decentralized Marketplace|Smart Contracts|IoT Tech|Markets Open

[toknormal]

not really. If you can list 10 coins that are one year old I'll be impressed.

Here's 35 for you   http://web.archive.org/web/20131120104851/http://coinmarketcap.com/

ok, I accept your general point though - the market is still young. Today's top 20 possibly have more longevity than the ones in that list.

But as the market gets ever more crowded it becomes increasingly important to understand the exact nature of what you're buying into. Lots of coins have things in common but one thing that is a consistent pattern is that genuine originals do prevail. Look at the top 10 market cap - they're all originals in some respect or another and have held their positions for quite some time. (Despite even that fact, they've all gone through the x10 pump and back down to 20% all-time-high rights of passage phase).

I invested in Bitbay because it had hints of that uniqueness. But its originality is still quite opaque. Technologically it has some new features, a few of which it nicked from Nubits, others planned that are appear to be specific implementations of the smart contracts paradigm aimed at a particular market sector - online auctioning. As a pure technology though I don't really see what stands out but as a package delivered with ready made markets I do see how it could be compelling. Unfortunately it's the "ready made markets" bit which are the most opaque aspect of the package which is why I've been probing in that direction.

[unusualfacts30]

A must-read for everyone interested in online marketplaces and cryptocurrency imo:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112976/ebay-ceo-very-open-to-bitcoin-will-likely-follow-paypal

All it takes is one phone call from Ebay to Bitbay and there is no stopping after that. Obviously, Bitbay is trying to set up their own platform as a competitor to Ebay and Openbazaar (which is still beta) but there is possibility that Ebay might approach Bitbay to join hands in near future.

[unusualfacts30]

not really. If you can list 10 coins that are one year old I'll be impressed.

Here's 35 for you   http://web.archive.org/web/20131120104851/http://coinmarketcap.com/

ok, I accept your general point though - the market is still young. Today's top 20 possibly have more longevity than the ones in that list.

But as the market gets ever more crowded it becomes increasingly important to understand the exact nature of what you're buying into. Lots of coins have things in common but one thing that is a consistent pattern is that genuine originals do prevail. Look at the top 10 market cap - they're all originals in some respect or another and have held their positions for quite some time. (Despite even that fact, they've all gone through the x10 pump and back down to 20% all-time-high rights of passage phase).

I invested in Bitbay because it had hints of that uniqueness. But its originality is still quite opaque. Technologically it has some new features, a few of which it nicked from Nubits, others planned that are appear to be specific implementations of the smart contracts paradigm aimed at a particular market sector - online auctioning. As a pure technology though I don't really see what stands out but as a package delivered with ready made markets I do see how it could be compelling. Unfortunately it's the "ready made markets" bit which are the most opaque aspect of the package which is why I've been probing in that direction.

Over crowd is the issue in short term but once experiment phase is over you'll be left with few coins which will be used online/offline etc. It'll take time and there will be new tech every year but once people stop creating new altcoin then all you've left are the ones that have already been created. Only few would rise.

For example..In 10 years from now utility company might say "We accept DRK, Bay, BTC & nameofyourcoin."

that's exactly how it is right now. "We accept credit card, cheque or money order" all that is needed to be done is add few more payment options and as more and more companies/people start accepting it further it'll go. The only reason people don't want to use crypto/btc right now is because they're so used to old "fiat" because that's how everything has been done since the beginning. It'll require new generation who'll adapt crypto instead of fiat and then it'll be passed to their generation to their generation..so on & so forth.

and in 60 years from today crypto will be the normal payment method for anything you buy online. Everything will move from offline to online in years from today and that's why something like Bay has so much potential to be "one of the payment method" and that'll automatically bring the price to moon & beyond.

[randywald]

A must-read for everyone interested in online marketplaces and cryptocurrency imo:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112976/ebay-ceo-very-open-to-bitcoin-will-likely-follow-paypal

All it takes is one phone call from Ebay to Bitbay and there is no stopping after that. Obviously, Bitbay is trying to set up their own platform as a competitor to Ebay and Openbazaar (which is still beta) but there is possibility that Ebay might approach Bitbay to join hands in near future.

If eBay really implements BitBay, than this coin will have the highest userbase of all coins i think.

Edit: Let's better say it will have a good operational area.

[nextgencoin]

So investing a few hundred or perhaps thousands of dollars into a venture which has a decent potential of becoming a similar valuation in a year or so is a pretty amazing opportunity.

I agree with most of this post but regarding that last statement, when have you ever seen an altcoin that's worth more a year after launch than in the first 2 months of launch ? Anything that's ever shown any promise in this market gets its valuation priced in very quickly - within a month or two if not immediately.

After that it's all downhill.

You're lucky if the price is a quarter of it's speculative early priced-in valuation in a year's time so I wouldn't lead people on with that nonsense. Even Bitshares and Counterparty which are currently enjoying top 5 marketcaps after a year have never traded above their early post-launch prices. Peercoin had massive promise that was priced in out of the gate. The first POS coin. It's currently a quarter of it's highest trading values. Counterparty got near its February price a few weeks ago with its mega "Etherium+Bitcoin all you want in 1 package" announcement and even that didn't push above its post-pump price record.

Lets get real for once. These are experimental markets. Developers try out new things then move onto other stuff. They are at the mercy of commercial dynamics over which they have no control. If a new project hasn't established itself in a couple of months of launch - forget it. There's too much other stuff going on.

Its a fact most alts have their peak after a few months, not a few days though!!!

But I agree most taper off after an early peak. So why would this be different? Because this coin unlike 95% of altcoins have no real world integration. Almost all alts are trying to become a standalone currency but very few are integrated into an actual business. Ultimately digital currency is to buy stuff and send value to individuals. So a trading platform that has a built in pegged currency is COMPLETELY different proposition that will increase in value IF the platform is used and proves popular. So I agree but you got to separate lone currencies and integrated currencies. They fact that it ticks all the boxes of what a decentralised marketplace is is incredibly hopeful. So many have scammed on the idea of a decentralised marketplace but this actually delivers the goods no pun intended.

[Toxamax]

A must-read for everyone interested in online marketplaces and cryptocurrency imo:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112976/ebay-ceo-very-open-to-bitcoin-will-likely-follow-paypal

All it takes is one phone call from Ebay to Bitbay and there is no stopping after that. Obviously, Bitbay is trying to set up their own platform as a competitor to Ebay and Openbazaar (which is still beta) but there is possibility that Ebay might approach Bitbay to join hands in near future.

If eBay really implements BitBay, than this coin will have the highest userbase of all coins i think.

Edit: Let's better say it will have a good operational area.

Having existing exchanges offering the 'Bitbay Contract' as an optional security layer for trading is going to be great. You negotiate the trades on Ebay, Craigslist and whatnot and you secure it through Bitbay. Beautiful.

[RJF]

So investing a few hundred or perhaps thousands of dollars into a venture which has a decent potential of becoming a similar valuation in a year or so is a pretty amazing opportunity.

I agree with most of this post but regarding that last statement, when have you ever seen an altcoin that's worth more a year after launch than in the first 2 months of launch ? Anything that's ever shown any promise in this market gets its valuation priced in very quickly - within a month or two if not immediately.

After that it's all downhill.

You're lucky if the price is a quarter of it's speculative early priced-in valuation in a year's time so I wouldn't lead people on with that nonsense. Even Bitshares and Counterparty which are currently enjoying top 5 marketcaps after a year have never traded above their early post-launch prices. Peercoin had massive promise that was priced in out of the gate. The first POS coin. It's currently a quarter of it's highest trading values. Counterparty got near its February price a few weeks ago with its mega "Etherium+Bitcoin all you want in 1 package" announcement and even that didn't push above its post-pump price record.

Lets get real for once. These are experimental markets. Developers try out new things then move onto other stuff. They are at the mercy of commercial dynamics over which they have no control. If a new project hasn't established itself in a couple of months of launch - forget it. There's too much other stuff going on.

Its a fact most alts have their peak after a few months, not a few days though!!!

But I agree most taper off after an early peak. So why would this be different? Because this coin unlike 95% of altcoins have no real world integration. Almost all alts are trying to become a standalone currency but very few are integrated into an actual business. Ultimately digital currency is to buy stuff and send value to individuals. So a trading platform that has a built in pegged currency is COMPLETELY different proposition that will increase in value IF the platform is used and proves popular. So I agree but you got to separate lone currencies and integrated currencies. They fact that it ticks all the boxes of what a decentralised marketplace is is incredibly hopeful. So many have scammed on the idea of a decentralised marketplace but this actually delivers the goods no pun intended.

Actually, it is a disservice to call this project an "Altcoin" when lumping it in with all the others. Bitbay has something very fee altcoins have, a realistic business plan,  professional developers and a vision of the future that isn't impossible to achieve. It's not an altcoin, it's a financial system. We can argue points here all day long but, truth be known, NOBODY knows what the future will bring and, 99% of all "facts" posted in these forums, unless they come from trusted, vetted well known individuals are pure speculation and downright guesses. Especially to poison ones designed to lower value for whatever purpose.

I read/scan approx 25 forums each day and I can count on one hand the number of verifiable statements, facts and figures in all of them on a daily basis and those come from 2 to 3 of the 25. This stuff is no different from the stock markets only it has yet to be regulated but, that is coming and when it does, all this will end and the projects that have real value, real developers and money behind them will survive. All others will perish.

So, to those of you who have actually invested, hang on, it's going to be a great ride if all goes as planned. To those of you who haven't invested but feel the need to bash Bitbay or spew negative "facts" about any portion of the project, GTFO, it's not your project.

Oh, and especially the "world savers" and crypto-vigilanties who would save us from ourselves, I'm sorry you have no life, it's not Bitbays fault...

[toknormal]

But I agree most taper off after an early peak. So why would this be different? Because this coin unlike 95% of altcoins have no real world integration. Almost all alts are trying to become a standalone currency but very few are integrated into an actual business. Ultimately digital currency is to buy stuff and send value to individuals. So a trading platform that has a built in pegged currency is COMPLETELY different proposition that will increase in value IF the platform is used and proves popular. So I agree but you got to separate lone currencies and integrated currencies. They fact that it ticks all the boxes of what a decentralised marketplace is is incredibly hopeful. So many have scammed on the idea of a decentralised marketplace but this actually delivers the goods no pun intended.

How is that different from eBay are proposing to do with Bitcoin ?  <-- genuine technical question not FUD

I realise that Bitcion isn't pegged to a fiat reference but as far as an adoption proposition goes the criteria for buyers and vendors are exposure to huge markets rather than the technical subtelties of the currency they're using surely. Clearing houses like Bitpay just deal with the volatility for them.

[unusualfacts30]

But I agree most taper off after an early peak. So why would this be different? Because this coin unlike 95% of altcoins have no real world integration. Almost all alts are trying to become a standalone currency but very few are integrated into an actual business. Ultimately digital currency is to buy stuff and send value to individuals. So a trading platform that has a built in pegged currency is COMPLETELY different proposition that will increase in value IF the platform is used and proves popular. So I agree but you got to separate lone currencies and integrated currencies. They fact that it ticks all the boxes of what a decentralised marketplace is is incredibly hopeful. So many have scammed on the idea of a decentralised marketplace but this actually delivers the goods no pun intended.

How is that different from eBay are proposing to do with Bitcoin ?  <-- genuine technical question not FUD

I realise that Bitcion isn't pegged to a fiat reference but as far as an adoption proposition goes the criteria for buyers and vendors are exposure to huge markets rather than the technical subtelties of the currency they're using surely. Clearing houses like Bitpay just deal with the volatility for them.

I think Dev mentioned that he is trying to make it "undumpable" that would automatically attract more vendors including Ebay. Businesses who wants to accept crypto they don't want to deal with volatility and if Bitbay fixes that issue then lo & behold you're looking at something that can change how everyone look at crypto.

At the same time Bitbay is going to come up with their own decentralized marketplace and everything depends on how big that gets. If that thing becomes bigger than Ebay itself then everyone can say good bye to Ebay..it'll still exist but it'll become a lot smaller than what it is today.

It will literally kill paypal(majority of population hates them) and no fees!! Everyone is familiar with Ebay & Paypal and how they literally rob people with their fee structure and policy. It's going to be great.

[toknormal]

I think Dev mentioned that he is trying to make it "undumpable" that would automatically attract more vendors including Ebay

Yea. I saw that.

What he's proposing to do is control the price by limiting the supply to market at any given moment.

The problem is, there are two components to the price equation and supply is only one of them. You don't create demand by limiting the supply - they are independent of each other. A peg needs to work from both sides of the price equation - much like the Bitshares model where a long and a short position are engaged in order to bring the currency into existence around a fixed reference rate to another currency.

All the same, this is the exact type of thing I'm interested in fleshing out. It's as vague as mud right now and could do with quite a bit of illumination.

[Toxamax]

I see it more as existing holders making an unbreakable pledge to hold it for a certain amount of time. It breaks the prisoner's dilemma that most coins are held hostage by. That alone is enough to at least attract new investors.

[toknormal]

I see it more as existing holders making an unbreakable pledge to hold it for a certain amount of time. It breaks the prisoner's dilemma that most coins are held hostage by. That alone is enough to at least attract new investors.

How can making a coin "unsellable" attract investors ?

You mean knowing that everyone else is locked in as well makes it more attractive for me to be 'locked in' ?

If demand isn't there the price will plummet anyway, regardless of what the supply is. There is some precedent for this model though. Right now the US fed has trillions of dollars locked up on their balance sheet which they've kept "off market" by offering a higher rate of interest on excess reserves to banks than they'd get on the open market.

So that has supported the value of the dollar despite a near 5-fold increase in its supply. The difference here is that the dollar 'engineers' already have a significant amount of pre-existing demand t work with, so they can use supply as a lever. If you don't have the demand in the first place then controlling supply alone is about as effective as playing tug of war with an ant.

[unusualfacts30]

I think Dev mentioned that he is trying to make it "undumpable" that would automatically attract more vendors including Ebay

Yea. I saw that.

What he's proposing to do is control the price by limiting the supply to market at any given moment.

The problem is, there are two components to the price equation and supply is only one of them. You don't create demand by limiting the supply - they are independent of each other. A peg needs to work from both sides of the price equation - much like the Bitshares model where a long and a short position are engaged in order to bring the currency into existence around a fixed reference rate to another currency.

All the same, this is the exact type of thing I'm interested in fleshing out. It's as vague as mud right now and could do with quite a bit of illumination.

I think what he is trying to do is control the supply. As demand rises he'll increase the supply. It's the only way to make sure that price doesn't jump around and becomes volatile. Demand can't be controlled per say because it comes from the market but if supply>demand then price will collapse. It makes sense economically & logically to keep supply restricted till demand is there.

[Piston Honda]

But I agree most taper off after an early peak. So why would this be different? Because this coin unlike 95% of altcoins have no real world integration. Almost all alts are trying to become a standalone currency but very few are integrated into an actual business. Ultimately digital currency is to buy stuff and send value to individuals. So a trading platform that has a built in pegged currency is COMPLETELY different proposition that will increase in value IF the platform is used and proves popular. So I agree but you got to separate lone currencies and integrated currencies. They fact that it ticks all the boxes of what a decentralised marketplace is is incredibly hopeful. So many have scammed on the idea of a decentralised marketplace but this actually delivers the goods no pun intended.

How is that different from eBay are proposing to do with Bitcoin ?  <-- genuine technical question not FUD

I realise that Bitcion isn't pegged to a fiat reference but as far as an adoption proposition goes the criteria for buyers and vendors are exposure to huge markets rather than the technical subtelties of the currency they're using surely. Clearing houses like Bitpay just deal with the volatility for them.

I think Dev mentioned that he is trying to make it "undumpable" that would automatically attract more vendors including Ebay. Businesses who wants to accept crypto they don't want to deal with volatility and if Bitbay fixes that issue then lo & behold you're looking at something that can change how everyone look at crypto.

At the same time Bitbay is going to come up with their own decentralized marketplace and everything depends on how big that gets. If that thing becomes bigger than Ebay itself then everyone can say good bye to Ebay..it'll still exist but it'll become a lot smaller than what it is today.

It will literally kill paypal(majority of population hates them) and no fees!! Everyone is familiar with Ebay & Paypal and how they literally rob people with their fee structure and policy. It's going to be great.

Undumpable would be epic, given the shitstorm that are most crap coins (and crap dev's) out in this industry (and industry is still too much of a professional word for it).  When folks wake the "F" up and see what a true coin like this can do (and potential), things will come around. 

If BAY can get a foothold in the market it wants to be, both in crypto AND real world vs. teh "big boy" names out there, watch out as I can see it taking off bigtime.

[Gizfreak]

I don't know if it would be too much timeconsuming, but I definitely would love to see a Google Hangout for BitBay every now and then.
Something I appreciated when I was involved in Vericoin.
Can this be accomplished?

[unusualfacts30]

I don't know if it would be too much timecomsuming, but I definitely would love to see a Google Hangout for BitBay every now and then.
Something I appreciated when I was involved in Vericoin.
Can this be accomplished?

I vote up on this.

I know team is busy with bitbay and the project but google hangout once every 2 weeks or once every month will be great!

[MomoCoin]

Im sure there will be some in the near future alongside some more AMA's. Bitbay is looking to be a very strong project with brand new technology.

If the devs can pull it all off this coin should gain some serious traction very soon, seriously looking forward to smart contracts!

[Toxamax]

I see it more as existing holders making an unbreakable pledge to hold it for a certain amount of time. It breaks the prisoner's dilemma that most coins are held hostage by. That alone is enough to at least attract new investors.

How can making a coin "unsellable" attract investors ?

You mean knowing that everyone else is locked in as well makes it more attractive for me to be 'locked in' ?

Knowing that there are existing holders locked in makes it more attractive to buy more as it means you're not going to get your investment dumped on your head the moment you do it.

Hedging can be done in several ways. The least intrusive way is to make it voluntary for the individual. If these hedges are publicly known then that boosts the stability of a coin. The liquid part of the coin can drop zero but the hedged part of the coin will retain it's value until it's free again.

This means that investors that have coin development as a priority over price increase can draw a line in the sand and show other investors how serious they are about it.

[albert_mt]

I see it more as existing holders making an unbreakable pledge to hold it for a certain amount of time. It breaks the prisoner's dilemma that most coins are held hostage by. That alone is enough to at least attract new investors.

How can making a coin "unsellable" attract investors ?

You mean knowing that everyone else is locked in as well makes it more attractive for me to be 'locked in' ?

Knowing that there are existing holders locked in makes it more attractive to buy more as it means you're not going to get your investment dumped on your head the moment you do it.

Hedging can be done in several ways. The least intrusive way is to make it voluntary for the individual. If these hedges are publicly known then that boosts the stability of a coin. The liquid part of the coin can drop zero but the hedged part of the coin will retain it's value until it's free again.

This means that investors that have coin development as a priority over price increase can draw a line in the sand and show other investors how serious they are about it.

will the hedged coins be taken out from the market? that's how hedging works with BAY?

[torshammer]

Toknormal /  Albert B

Read the posts by David & watch the hedging / pegging videos. Your Bay is not "locked" or "unsellable". Timelock mechanisms in the blockchain allow you to commit your Bay to be in reserve for various amounts of time (off market) thus restricting supply. You can move your Bay into the selling mode; a percentage of the total supply is dedicated to that. Trading and arbitrage bots even out resulting price swings.

Full explanation in the referred to locations.