BitBay |Decentralized Marketplace|Smart Contracts|IoT Tech|Markets Open

[nextgencoin]

Why is this coin worth 1m USD market cap? With nothing released yet?

Why is FTC worth $1.75M? Why are PND and QRK worth ~$1.2M ea.?  How about the re-launch of Fuelcoin with it's 50% premine... which is worth nearly four times as much?
For that matter, despite definitely having much more 'built out' (as they should considering their age/investment capital) why are LTC and XRP worth ~125X and 275X respectively, as much?

Because that is what the market is willing to pay for them. Period.  Or I guess more to the point, people invest precisely in new ventures because at one time they were all worth almost nothing at all including BTC.  So investing a few hundred or perhaps thousands of dollars into a venture which has a decent potential of becoming a similar valuation in a year or so is a pretty amazing opportunity.

As long as you aren't investing money which you cannot afford to risk, and have confidence in the devs and the concept/goals of the coin - is anything else (especially in the first week or so) really all that critical?  God knows there's been billions of investment capital funneled into projects/businesses that had far less to go on... at least anyone that was investing in the late 1990's should know of a few thousand.  Basically, anything that was web-centric got a $50M+ IPO... and most of them turned into Pets.com, WebMD, or MarketWatch.com... seeing a surge of 200%-500% in their first few weeks... only to be bankrupt or worth a tiny fraction of that amount 1-2 years later.  Many had an IPO with little more than a Powerpoint presentation and an MBA or two on their boards - no customers, no stores, no inventory... nothing but a concept.

However, some of those investors throwing money at a number of totally unknown IPOs in those days bought Amazon, Ebay or Priceline at less than $20 per share each.  If they held even a decent amount through the "I told you so..." crash in 2000... they've seen 2,000% to 10,000% gains from those holdings over the past 10 years.  That's the whole point in investing and speculation in general.  If you want a proven commodity prior to investing anything - then just invest in the index itself and hopefully get 5-10% gains per year on average (after all it's not without risk either... it's just mitigated by diversity and volume).  In crypto terms that would mean just buying BTC and holding only it - don't even bother looking at anything else.

On the other hand, since BTC already went from pennies to ~$370/BTC (still a massive gain for early adopters, back when it had nothing but a concept to go on).  Despite losing close to 75% of it's value from the top, I still consider my BTC to be the best "random chance" I've ever thrown pocket-change at.  I doubt there's much of a chance of it hitting $37K per BTC anytime in the next 2-3 years (or likely ever for that matter).  It's more likely that something with a great idea and some dedicated talent behind it can go from $0.001 to $0.1 or even $1.00 - which will get you every bit as much or more of a return if it happens.

The bottom line is this: If you believe in the coin/concept/venture then invest what you can afford to risk.  If it seems interesting but you're suspicious/hesitant, then check back in a few months.  If you're positive it's just another scam/fraud then move along and don't look back.

Only time will tell who is right and who is wrong - but debating it over and over in the thread is not terribly productive either way IMO.

Well said!  It's a very simple formula really: (Success + profit) = (patience/discipline) + due diligence.


 

There is a clear cut difference between Investing and trading, sorry to state the obvious. Unfortunately Crypto has become a community of traders rather than investors. There is affecting the prices of coins where you can't easily sit in one coin and wait for the long term potential to be reached, even with Bitcoin the chart slopes left to right. The big gains are always in investing still though. Bitbay is clearly a long term bet that this is a system that will take over the current system of Ebay  and online trading sites.

I personally think this is the best bet that this can be achieved cause it brings the necessary elements together. I completely get why David was hired for this project because his technology is essential for this to work. Someone instigating this project is bringing together the necessary elements and you can see is totally serious about achieving the goal of decentralised trading. So I'm assuming the smart people getting David and his tech in the this project are just as serious in other parts for the project including trading contacts etc.

My point is I think this project is more planned and bigger than even supporters realise. I think some smart big players are involved pulling strings, they are serious is my hunch and the ICO was simply seed money to pay all involved to carry out the work.

[MemoryShock]

Crypto is more of a community of traders than investors.  True enough.

That said, I think that the trading period prior to December/January (or whenever the hedging takes place) makes that point irrelevant.

It's an easy investment if you put in what you are willing to lose.  The only question is what happens after David delivers all of the code...then we find ourselves in a real world investment.  People have to buy and sell for this to be a success...smart contracts go a long way to providing a people a reason to move money around in that space...

I'm excited to see what will happen because I am not just waiting for a developer to develop...that much is a given in my opinion.  I'm waiting for a populated marketplace...that will be awesome...

two cents...

[nextgencoin]

Crypto is more of a community of traders than investors.  True enough.

That said, I think that the trading period prior to December/January (or whenever the hedging takes place) makes that point irrelevant.

It's an easy investment if you put in what you are willing to lose.  The only question is what happens after David delivers all of the code...then we find ourselves in a real world investment.  People have to buy and sell for this to be a success...smart contracts go a long way to providing a people a reason to move money around in that space...

I'm excited to see what will happen because I am not just waiting for a developer to develop...that much is a given in my opinion.  I'm waiting for a populated marketplace...that will be awesome...

two cents...

Don't disagree I just think spotting great investments is about buying them before their value is high and 100% proven. Anyone and their grandmother can invest in FB or Twitter now but what about the guys who saw the potential when they were nothing. Once the full tech is shown and working and people are using the platform it will be too late, the big gains would have already been made.

two million dollars...

[joffmac]

http://youtu.be/ieTIr71Sb3c
here is a demo of new wallet and smart contracts

[whetherman]

http://youtu.be/ieTIr71Sb3c
here is a demo of new wallet and smart contracts

That's the old video i believe.

[toknormal]

So investing a few hundred or perhaps thousands of dollars into a venture which has a decent potential of becoming a similar valuation in a year or so is a pretty amazing opportunity.

I agree with most of this post but regarding that last statement, when have you ever seen an altcoin that's worth more a year after launch than in the first 2 months of launch ? Anything that's ever shown any promise in this market gets its valuation priced in very quickly - within a month or two if not immediately.

After that it's all downhill.

You're lucky if the price is a quarter of it's speculative early priced-in valuation in a year's time so I wouldn't lead people on with that nonsense. Even Bitshares and Counterparty which are currently enjoying top 5 marketcaps after a year have never traded above their early post-launch prices. Peercoin had massive promise that was priced in out of the gate. The first POS coin. It's currently a quarter of it's highest trading values. Counterparty got near its February price a few weeks ago with its mega "Etherium+Bitcoin all you want in 1 package" announcement and even that didn't push above its post-pump price record.

Lets get real for once. These are experimental markets. Developers try out new things then move onto other stuff. They are at the mercy of commercial dynamics over which they have no control. If a new project hasn't established itself in a couple of months of launch - forget it. There's too much other stuff going on.

[barabbas]

So investing a few hundred or perhaps thousands of dollars into a venture which has a decent potential of becoming a similar valuation in a year or so is a pretty amazing opportunity.

I agree with most of this post but regarding that last statement, when have you ever seen an altcoin that's worth more a year after launch than in the first 2 months of launch ? Anything that's ever shown any promise in this market gets its valuation priced in very quickly - within a month or two if not immediately.

After that it's all downhill.

You're lucky if the price is a quarter of it's speculative early priced-in valuation in a year's time so I wouldn't lead people on with that nonsense. Even Bitshares and Counterparty which are currently enjoying top 5 marketcaps after a year have never traded above their early post-launch prices. Peercoin had massive promise that was priced in out of the gate. The first POS coin. It's currently a quarter of it's highest trading values. Counterparty got near its February price a few weeks ago with its mega "Etherium+Bitcoin all you what in 1 package" announcement and even that didn't push above its post-pump price record.

Lets get real for once. These are experimental markets. Developers try out new things then move onto other stuff. They are at the mercy of commercial dynamics over which they have no control. If a new project hasn't established itself in a couple of months of launch - forget it. There's too much other stuff going on.

You are bound to be called names after such magnificent debunking of the enormous amount of bullshit that is posted here regularly. You must be FUD-ing?

[unusualfacts30]

So investing a few hundred or perhaps thousands of dollars into a venture which has a decent potential of becoming a similar valuation in a year or so is a pretty amazing opportunity.

I agree with most of this post but regarding that last statement, when have you ever seen an altcoin that's worth more a year after launch than in the first 2 months of launch ? Anything that's ever shown any promise in this market gets its valuation priced in very quickly - within a month or two if not immediately.

After that it's all downhill.

You're lucky if the price is a quarter of it's speculative early priced-in valuation in a year's time so I wouldn't lead people on with that nonsense. Even Bitshares and Counterparty which are currently enjoying top 5 marketcaps after a year have never traded above their early post-launch prices. Peercoin had massive promise that was priced in out of the gate. The first POS coin. It's currently a quarter of it's highest trading values. Counterparty got near its February price a few weeks ago with its mega "Etherium+Bitcoin all you what in 1 package" announcement and even that didn't push above its post-pump price record.

Lets get real for once. These are experimental markets. Developers try out new things then move onto other stuff. They are at the mercy of commercial dynamics over which they have no control. If a new project hasn't established itself in a couple of months of launch - forget it. There's too much other stuff going on.

Better question is..How many altcoins are one year old?

Only few.

If a new project isn't established in few months move on? lol. Do you know how long it took BTC to get to the point where it is now?

Issue is that people are impatient and anyone who is impatient will never get big profit out of anything. Truth is 3+ years is minimum amount you'll have to wait before you see big profit with any altcoin that has value and it doesn't go for just altcoins..it goes for every investment you choose to spend your money on.

Winner wasn't the guy who bought BTC in last december after the spike, it's not the guy who bought facebook share after it became popular, it wasn't the guy who invested in google after it became global search engine.

Biggest winner was the guy who saw potential in those when everyone else chose to close their eyes and called them BS. He was loyal to them and his investment and fought every critique that came across his path. If he had just sold his investment after few months he would still be working in McDonald.

1.) You have to pick the right investment. Not the one everyone else believe in but the one you believe in.

2.) You have to forget about it for few years.

3.) You cash out after 3-5 years

4.) You drive Lamborghini while everyone else have regret.  

You might say that Bitbay will never pass Ebay but first ask yourself didn't facebook get ahead of myspace? Didn't android pass every single phone OS that is out there regardless of how old they were? Didn't Netflix get ahead of blockbuster?

Yes, they did. It didn't matter how big myspace or apple was. It was just a matter of time till everyone saw their potential.

Your another arguement is that crypto is still in experimental state and you're right but would this be same in 3 years from now?

I would rather take a risk than kicking myself after few years when Bay reaches $20 and I have NONE!  

[toknormal]

Better question is..How many altcoins are one year old?

Quite a lot actually. Easily enough to support the point I'm making and none that endorse your's.

Do you know how long it took BTC to get to the point where it is now?

Bitcoin had the market nearly all to itself for 3 years. That allowed it to gain a massive amount of network effect and adoption. No altcoin is within even 1 thirtieth of Bitcoin's marketcap. You cannot use Bitcoin's track record as evidence that a new altcoin will appreciate in the long term. Altcoins depreciate in the long term due to rapid obsolescence and growth of competition.

Bitcoin has the opposite behaviour. It is unique in that regard. The more alts that appear the less impact each successive one has on Bitcoin's relative marketcap. Not since Litecoin November-2013 has anything got so close despite introducing technologies that are way more advanced than what Bitcoin has.

Issue is that people are impatient and anyone who is impatient will never get big profit out of anything.

I'd say the opposite is true if you look at the trading evidence of the last 18 months. Those who got out at the first post-launch speculative "pump" profited while those who waited a year lost all their money. This was the case for almost every single alt-coin launch I can think of bar none. Just off the top of my head, PPC, XPM, NXT, AUR, DRK, MOON, QRK, WDC, BLC...I could go on add infinitum.

I'm not saying it's not possible that a project break this trend. I'm saying it's unlikely because even if it's successful, that success will immediately attract enough competition into the market to offset any long term gains that weren't priced into its initial speculative valuation.

Winner wasn't the guy who bought BTC in last december after the spike, it's not the guy who bought facebook share after it became popular, it wasn't the guy who invested in google after it became global search engine..

ok, I can't disagree with you there, but you've got to see ALL altcoins as almost a single market. The activity, technology and valuations surf from one project to the next. Developers like new stuff. They'll drop a project like a hot brick when something more interesting comes along which right now is every couple of weeks. Same with traders once they've taken profits from the initial pump. Ask any average trader which altcoins they are in at the moment and 99% it won't bear any resemblance to the ones they were in a year ago.

[kencoles]

Dev is a cheater. I have translate thread in to Portuguese.

Pm him several time but he is not giving my bounty.

[whetherman]

Toknormal, thought we had persuaded you to sell your massive 1 btc investment in Bay and move on.

Oh wait a minute, that would leave you without a soapbox to stand on and yell at random strangers.

just a short list of the silliest bits from your last post:

"you've got to see ALL altcoins as almost a single market"  (No, I don't. Not anymore than all financial instruments or all methods of goods transport are a single market).

"The more alts that appear the less impact each successive one has on Bitcoin's relative marketcap. " (just add up all the icos the last year. Ethereum, Supernet, Bay. All that money came out of BTC. And did not go back. During the same period BC lost over 50% of its market value, even after dropping to 800.)

That you are even discussing coins like AUR and MOON in the same breath as NXT is silly. Oh wait, i forgot. It's all 'a single market'.

"They'll drop a project like a hot brick when something more interesting comes along which right now is every couple of weeks. "

Please list the names of developers in the last two months who have done this. Then prove their actions are being now repeated by David. Include some sort of hard evidence in your next post. If you cannot, then I suggest you owe him an apology for your insinuations.


 

[toknormal]

"you've got to see ALL altcoins as almost a single market"  (No, I don't. Not anymore than all financial instruments or all methods of goods transport are a single market).

Financial Instruments and goods transport assets have real valuations. They are not speculative. It's possible to sit down and calculate asset values in these markets based on ROI from profitability of the associated economic activity.

My point about the altcoin market is that they are not separate in the sense that each altcoin occupies a different sector of the crypto economy - they form a single speculative sector where the money moves seamlessly out of one and into another as each technology evolves.

I cited this point to address the ever repeated mantra of "wait a year and you'll see huge returns". Yes - the last 18 month's trading suggests that you may see returns from the alt coin market in general if you stay on top of your investments, but not from any single project. Probably the worst thing you can do is stick your money into a promising altcoin and forget about it for a year because the market as a whole is characterised by transient capitalisations where a given coin only retains a high valuation for a short while before settling at a level an order of magnitude less if it survives long term. The bulk of the available capital roams around the altcoin market like a kid in a supermarket sized sweetshop.

If ever any of these projects actually see significant adoption then a new dynamic will come into play where non-speculative valuations might start to contribute. That's obviously the holy grail of every single one of the thousands of projects now out there, but for it to happen for real will take more than a few grainy videos, a clever project manager and a very unspecific commercial contact list. That isn't a criticism of the current development team - I'm sure they've got their hands full just with trying to deliver a product that does justice to the current valuation. It's more of a call to investors for realism and an appraisal of the enormity of the task at hand.

Think about the challenges for a change rather than dreaming of $1 a coin. What's actually going to be offered to the public ? A marketplace ? They already got one in eBay. Smart contracts ? How will that actually make the buying experience any different for the average user ? It might make it worse because you don't have a counterparty in the loop anymore to solve problems. Everything is automated and when automated systems f*ck up they generally do a far more destructive job of it than a human does.

What's going to be the pressure gradient that drives people from what they know and love, to an unknown and obscure new market ? How are you going to populate that market with vendors when there's no existing audience for their stuff ?..i.s. bootstrap it. You need the support of an established market which presumably is where the Alibaba contacts come in, but what are the nature of those contacts ? We've no idea.

If you think it's "rocking the boat" to ask fairly basic viability questions like that then I say your just not interested enough in your investment. I don't think it's any disrespect to the developer/commercial team either. All it is is an appreciation of the challenges they're up against and if I was them I'd rather have an engaged and realistic investment community behind me than a bunch of polite but expectant bystanders who then all go sour after a year because their coin didn't go to the moon.

[Cryptozillah]

This user is currently ignored.

This trollfilter is really effective. wow

[waxo]

With the escrow service and smart contact,i see a really good opportunity for the black market as well...

probably a silkbay soon

[Gizfreak]

Dev is a cheater. I have translate thread in to Portuguese.
Pm him several time but he is not giving my bounty.

My GF didn't answer my message as well, so she also must be a cheater? Jumping to conclusions imo.

[smallbay]

guys, shut up and let the smart contracts come. revolution is here.

[Gizfreak]

With the escrow service and smart contact,i see a really good opportunity for the black market as well...

probably a silkbay soon

That was one of my thoughts also, when I heard about BitBay. Let's see what happens to Evolution and maybe learn from it.
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/unstoppable-evolution-dark-net/

[unusualfacts30]

Better question is..How many altcoins are one year old?

Quite a lot actually. Easily enough to support the point I'm making and none that endorse your's.

Do you know how long it took BTC to get to the point where it is now?

Bitcoin had the market nearly all to itself for 3 years. That allowed it to gain a massive amount of network effect and adoption. No altcoin is within even 1 thirtieth of Bitcoin's marketcap. You cannot use Bitcoin's track record as evidence that a new altcoin will appreciate in the long term. Altcoins depreciate in the long term due to rapid obsolescence and growth of competition.

Bitcoin has the opposite behaviour. It is unique in that regard. The more alts that appear the less impact each successive one has on Bitcoin's relative marketcap. Not since Litecoin November-2013 has anything got so close despite introducing technologies that are way more advanced than what Bitcoin has.

Issue is that people are impatient and anyone who is impatient will never get big profit out of anything.

I'd say the opposite is true if you look at the trading evidence of the last 18 months. Those who got out at the first post-launch speculative "pump" profited while those who waited a year lost all their money. This was the case for almost every single alt-coin launch I can think of bar none. Just off the top of my head, PPC, XPM, NXT, AUR, DRK, MOON, QRK, WDC, BLC...I could go on add infinitum.

I'm not saying it's not possible that a project break this trend. I'm saying it's unlikely because even if it's successful, that success will immediately attract enough competition into the market to offset any long term gains that weren't priced into its initial speculative valuation.

Winner wasn't the guy who bought BTC in last december after the spike, it's not the guy who bought facebook share after it became popular, it wasn't the guy who invested in google after it became global search engine..

ok, I can't disagree with you there, but you've got to see ALL altcoins as almost a single market. The activity, technology and valuations surf from one project to the next. Developers like new stuff. They'll drop a project like a hot brick when something more interesting comes along which right now is every couple of weeks. Same with traders once they've taken profits from the initial pump. Ask any average trader which altcoins they are in at the moment and 99% it won't bear any resemblance to the ones they were in a year ago.

Quite a lot?

not really. If you can list 10 coins that are one year old I'll be impressed.

18 months is nothing. You have to give it 3 years at least. As you said yourself "altcoin is experiment" that means once experiment phase is over in few years. Few altcoins would rise and if the coin you're invested in has potential nothing can stop it from rising.

Again, don't think BTC is everything and nothing would replace it because that can be said for anything yet everything has been replaced with something that was better. It's a circle of life and technology. Nothing is permanent. It might take 5 years or even 10 but it will get replaced as more and more people become aware of altcoins. New generation (kids who are 5-10 yrs old) would be 20 in ten years and that would be new era for altcoins and everything is possible including BTC getting replaced with something else.

Altcoins are single market in a sense that there is one section for all altcoins on btctalk but every single altcoin has different reason behind it. All of them will see pump/dump etc but once experiment phase is over you're looking at something that will change the world forever.


Lets see why Bay has potential:

1.) No mining. It means any investor can jump in without having to worry about getting destroyed by person who mined 100k worth of coins in early days.
2.) Decentralized marketplace: Buy what you need without having to worry about exposing your financial info online.
3.) Smart contracts: More security and safer transaction.
4.) Fast transaction time
5.) Hard working Dev who has great history.
6.) POS 2.0

You can find above qualities in other altcoins but NONE of them have everything and that's what makes Bay unique from everything else that have ever existed in crypto till today.

[Toxamax]

There's a few fundamental things about BTC that I don't like. And I think that BTC is more fragile than most us dare to admit. We like to pretend it's the gold standard to Crypto because we all depend on it being that solid. The weaknesses however, they won't disappear. So things are going to change. Crypto will stay but BTC is running on it's last legs. There's going to be alts that exist right now that are going to fill that gap and do it better. My bet is on the coins that will solve BTC's issues the best. And Bitbay is one of them.

You can find above qualities in other altcoins but NONE of them have everything and that's what makes Bay unique from everything else that have ever existed in crypto till today.

Well Blackcoin does. Bitbay and BC both have something the other is missing.

[Gizfreak]

A must-read for everyone interested in online marketplaces and cryptocurrency imo:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112976/ebay-ceo-very-open-to-bitcoin-will-likely-follow-paypal