GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[trixter]

You know what else those emails showed (or rather didn't show)?  They showed absolutely nothing about Josh's upcoming, in a week or two, super secret farmed out all over the world project.  Nothing at all.  I also did not see anything from MasterCard about a deal.  I saw some emails between internal GAWbers talking about the news article saying that MasterCard had denied a deal, I saw emails between a GAWber or two and the reporter who ran the story asking for comment, what I did not see was anything from anyone actually working for MasterCard.  You would think there would be something, you know since there was a deal and all.

Mastercard and visa both issue exactly 0 cards per year.  The deal would have been with a bank who is authorized to issue those cards.  While I did not see a bank deal either, that does not mean they were not trying to hit up a bank (I personally have so I know that its easy to do, getting favorable terms in a timely fashion however is not).  

Generally the way a deal like this works is you convince a bank that you are not a silk road type cryptocoin company.  That you are not funding ISIS or whatever else scares them into wanting to say no immediately.  You enter negotiations where you will be able to issue cards in customers names, underwritten by the bank, and paid off by you.  You negotiate terms which include the cut of the merchant fee you receive, card issuance fees, payment terms, etc.  Often this requires a daily settlement where you have to give the bank money for purchases every business day.  This may be that you are required to keep a float balance in an account with  them or it can be through other means.  You have to work out the details for API access so the bank can in realtime determine the balance on each card.  Then you can start to think about issuing the cards.

This takes many months if not a couple years to go live from inception of idea to finalized implementation.  I think Josh thought that it would take weeks instead and advertised the feature a bit too early.  I am on the fence whether he thought there was no way they would turn him down so it was "as good as done" not realizing how scared banks are about cryptocurrencies because of the patriot act, banking secrecy act (read AML/ATF - the opposite of banking secrecy), supporting criminal operations, etc.  It is really hard to convince most banks that this is good for them (more merchant fees) and good for consumers.  If it were easy you would think that dozens of companies would already be doing this instead of just one or two.  Its even difficult for some exchanges to keep their bank accounts.

I will concede that GAW may not have had any actual deal, or anyone even willing to entertain negotiations.  I dont know either way.  At best he thought it would be quick and easy so he started marketing it, at worst he had no intention of doing it and was shining people on.  I do know from personal experience that banks like to do prelim negotiations on  the phone not email.  I could never get any bank anywhere to respond by email when discussing doing a bitcoin->debit card program in the past.

[trixter]

People really should read back a few pages before wasting thousands of keystrokes on speculation about things that are already well known. In particular I would read where I noticed an email in the list from Scott Booth which he verified was indeed real:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg10651942#msg10651942

Get real. There were at least 50,000 Emails in that dump last night. It would take someone a year just to write them, not even getting into all of the links and pictures and voicemails and then the DKIM signatures that are in them. If you are an idiot solipsist and just can't accept that truth can be known I think you are in the wrong thread.

P.S: This post is mainly meant for trixter and PC. PC is already on ignore, and now you are as well aptley named wall o text poster. See you never, forget to write! Buhbyes!

Glad I am on ignore, I would however like to point out something so that maybe a friend can tell you about it.  You should learn to read.  I was not saying they were fake DKIM signatures, I was not saying the emails were generated quickly, in fact I was saying the opposite. 

I am sorry that the technical issues I raised in demonstrating how it was more probable that the DKIM signatures were valid offended you.  I refuse to dumb it down for illiterate people though.

[Paul Revere]

trixter is obviously getting paid to shill by the word and needs every fucking satoshi he is getting paid to be a professional solipsist and help keep the GAW/Paycoin turdboat afloat for another day.

[trixter]

I believe it was the gaw domain, but i didnt read all emails as there was big bunch posted here yesterday and today. My DKIM story was based on the first emails i saw which all came from and send to geniusesatwork.com if i remember correctly. So if someone had plesk/cpanel/directadmin or shell access then it was easy to setup.

I wasnt aware of the google mails...will take a look at them right away..

I believe that the GAW domain is hosted at google.  Lets find out shall we?

Code:

gaw.com mail is handled by 10 aspmx.l.google.com.
gaw.com mail is handled by 20 alt1.aspmx.l.google.com.
gaw.com mail is handled by 30 alt2.aspmx.l.google.com.
gaw.com mail is handled by 40 aspmx2.googlemail.com.
gaw.com mail is handled by 50 aspmx3.googlemail.com.

Yup it is.  Which means GAW most likely never had the private DKIM key.  Google does not give that out, only the public one so you can set a DNS record for authenticating them.  This means that the only way  they could be faked would be if google was penetrated and the DKIM private key was compromised or if a google employee with that access acquired and leaked it.  I think that is very unlikely.

[DaveWave]

I will concede that GAW may not have had any actual deal, or anyone even willing to entertain negotiations.  I dont know either way.  At best he thought it would be quick and easy so he started marketing it, at worst he had no intention of doing it and was shining people on.  I do know from personal experience that banks like to do prelim negotiations on  the phone not email.  I could never get any bank anywhere to respond by email when discussing doing a bitcoin->debit card program in the past.

As he sacked his development team while saying the card was coming (soon) then that suggests he had no intention of ever doing it.

... Same as the buyback, if he was going to do it he would be buying coins under $10 cos it would be cheaper than paying users $19 once in the scheme.

[Paul Revere]

What the fuck? Did somebody say something in here? Hellooooooooo!? Guess not, all I see is empty names. Have fun assholes, when you are done the truth will still be here. Toodaloo!

[bitpop]

I wonder if his attorney's have been paid yet or if they are planning to go after Josh just like everyone else is.

If they did any kind of due diligence - kind of a requirement in this line of business - they would have demanded an advance payment.

A couple more notes from the SEC subpoena. Government talk is hilarious. "Singular includes plural and plural includes singular"  . But they really seem to have done their homework. The document mentions Paycoin, Hashpoints, Hashstakers (with details like staking duration and payout rate), CAF, white paper, ICO, wallet addresses, GAW entities/DBAs, etc etc, so it sounds like a well-prepared fishing expedition.

The scope of documents they are requesting to be produced in 3 weeks looks like a full time job for the remaining GAW staff. And the deadline was February 27th so it kind of explains what happened to the whole "honors" thing.

I'm impressed the sec has a better understanding of the structure than I do

[seedtrue]

1,000,000$ domain-name purchase was more important than paying for the electric bills  

They paid in XPY 

[trixter]

trixter is obviously getting paid to shill by the word and needs every fucking satoshi he is getting paid to be a professional solipsist and help keep the GAW/Paycoin turdboat afloat for another day.

Um what?  I thought I was on ignore.  I guess reading is not one of your stronger skills.  I suggest getting someone to read my posts to you so they can explain how I am laying out a case for mass incompetence, wishful thinking, and little backing the plan.  I also suggest that you get someone more technically inclined to explain how I demonstrated that it is far more probable that the DKIM signatures are valid, thus providing validity to the signed emails.

How exactly does that help keep the GAW/Paycoin turdboat afloat for another day?

[Paul Revere]

Something is wrong with this forum, I keep seeing names in the thread list and no posts next to them. Oh wait, no, those are on ignore. I guess it works.

[Mr Felt]

trixter is obviously getting paid to shill by the word and needs every fucking satoshi he is getting paid to be a professional solipsist and help keep the GAW/Paycoin turdboat afloat for another day.

You should consider doing some due diligence on trixter.  he's not an unknown. his credentials RE: computers/tech should carry some weight on the tech stuff.  as far as interpreting the totality of facts, that's just more art than science and evey one does it a little differently.

[KC6TTR]

People really should read back a few pages before wasting thousands of keystrokes on speculation about things that are already well known. In particular I would read where I noticed an email in the list from Scott Booth which he verified was indeed real:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg10651942#msg10651942

Get real. There were at least 50,000 Emails in that dump last night. It would take someone a year just to write them, not even getting into all of the links and pictures and voicemails and then the DKIM signatures that are in them. If you are an idiot solipsist and just can't accept that truth can be known I think you are in the wrong thread.

P.S: This post is mainly meant for trixter and PC. PC is already on ignore, and now you are as well aptley named wall o text poster. See you never, forget to write! Buhbyes!

In in the spirit of transparency, here is that SAME email (typos and all) as sent from my corporate computer on 10.16.2014 @ 11:45AM PST (see below - with my contact phone #s and email addresses redacted by me for the purpose of sharing this pic). To clarify, it was sent to Garza directly and not through the support side, but it seems all his gawminers.com, btc.com, and geniusesatwork.com domain addresses were being filtered through a single Google backend, which explains a lot.

Scott-

[trixter]

edit - trixter, still giving you the benefit of the doubt even though you're late on your late deadline over at btcjam.

waiting on coinbase (as stated in one of the listings).  :/

[Paul Revere]

I don't care, Mr Felt. When some asshole person comes in here making 1,000 word posts about why the sky is actually not blue but actually more likely some shade of blue gray or maybe clear but actually black and maybe it is actually blue but no one can actually know for sure  I treat them all the same. Uhmkay?

LOL- And now I see that you are waiting on a payment from him? LMAO! COOL! Better get typing your endless dribble, trixter. That one satoshi per word is some low wages bragh!

[Mr Felt]

I don't care, Mr Felt. When some asshole person comes in here making 1,000 word posts about why the sky is actually not blue but actually more likely some shade of blue gray or maybe clear but actually black and maybe it is actually blue but no one can actually know for sure  I treat them all the same. Uhmkay?

LOL- And now I see that you are waiting on a payment from him? LMAO! COOL! Better get typing your endless dribble, trixter. That one satoshi per word is some low wages bragh!

its all good, dude.  i looked him up before i gave him my money, which was not a lot.  totally understood my risk and sticking by my original research. wish those HTers would have done that.

[trixter]

In in the spirit of transparency, here is that SAME email (typos and all) as sent from my corporate computer on 10.16.2014 @ 11:45AM PST (see below). To clarify, it was sent to Garza directly and not through the support side, but it seems all his gawminers.com, btc.com, and geniusesatwork.com domain addresses were being filtered through a single Google backend, which explains a lot.

Scott-

Yes looking at the MX records they are using google apps for domains to host their email (which explains the google groups tie-in).  I do it, its fun and easy (and free)!  Plus it gives me a direct line to the NSA, a google partner

Since he wont (??) answer you I will

Mr. Josh Garza Founder and Chief Executive Officer
Mr. Shiraz Moosajee Chief Financial Officer
Mr. Dan Kelley Chief Operating Officer
Mr. Joe Mordica Chief Technology Officer
Mr. Jonah Dorman Vice President and General Manager

They are a Delaware corporation (probably because of the rules on shares and other stuff that way)
REGISTERED AGENT INFORMATION
VCORP SERVICES, LLC
1811 SILVERSIDE RD
WILMINGTON, DE 19810-4345


Happy hunting.

If needed for process service purposes I can provide home addresses and such of the officers.  I wont post them publicly though because of potential for harassment which I think is fairly high.

tips plz?  15VefMiWoozcEf5JgEQ1tGnCPNPPHSBYUW

[Puppet]

IANAL but I doubt SEC wants to actually talk to any GAW customers except a few large-ish ones perhaps. The stuff they're requesting about customers is mostly regular business accounting, they'd need all that to conduct any decent investigation. Also GAW's failure to produce such business records would be quite important by itself.

Impossible to keep up with this thread lol, but just want to respond to the above: one reason the SEC wants the data of customers is almost certainly to determine if they are "sophisticated investors". If this paycoin thing is deemed a(n unregistered) security, then its illegal to sell it unsophisticated investors. Before anyone aks: sophisticated in this context basically means rich.

In general investors/customers should not fear the SEC, its not illegal to buy these things, nor to get scammed. If anything, the SEC is doing its thing to protect them.

[cryptofunk]

I believe Trixter is right regarding Google's implementation of DKIM, only Google has access to the private key ever.  Google also has a minimum key lenght of 1024 bits which makes it very secure. Bitcoin Bar is going around saying you can break a 512bit key for $75, well as this was setup sometime in last November the key was a minimum of 1024.

Side note, as I was reading on the subject, I noticed that GAW removed the DKIM key from their DNS... Why would a company make itself less secure? (no need to answer)

EDIT: MXToolbox seems to have a problem with TXT records lookups at the moment

[SDRebel]

I wasnt aware of the google mails...will take a look at them right away..

Well there is 50,000 of them so you better catch up before talking shit in here.  And for the people who have been arguing with paycum over the last few pages, the dickhead is referring to the last bunch of DKIM emails published by coinbrief.

He isn't even aware of last nights events.

i saw some links and the email dump zio, but even that one was under 50 or so....is there a bigger dump / archive?

[trixter]

I believe Trixter is right regarding Google's implementation of DKIM, only Google has access to the private key ever.  Google also has a minimum key lenght of 1024 bits which makes it very secure. Bitcoin Bar is going around saying you can break a 512bit key for $75, well as this was setup sometime in last November the key was a minimum of 1024.

Side note, as I was reading on the subject, I noticed that GAW removed the DKIM key from their DNS... Why would a company make itself less secure? (no need to answer)

When did they do this?  I saw the record when I posted earlier about the DKIM stuff, which makes me think that it was removed after my post talking about how they could invalidate old messages (or rather make them so you cant validate them).  If the timing fits then it is likely they are reading this thread and reacting to what is being said.

edit: I did not go direct so it may have been cached when I checked

edit: old  record for historical (hysterical?) purposes

Code:

MXTB-PWS3v2 47ms
  0  l.gtld-servers.net  192.41.162.30  NON-AUTH  46 ms  Received 4 Referrals , rcode=NO_ERROR    NS	ns1.p12.dynect.net,NS	ns3.p12.dynect.net,NS	ns2.p12.dynect.net,NS	ns4.p12.dynect.net,  

  1  ns2.p12.dynect.net  204.13.250.12  AUTH  0 ms  Received 1 Answers , rcode=NO_ERROR    TXT	v=DKIM1; k=rsa; p=MIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQCVCMmaiSf0bERbtZhTLOtFTDE5TAVEAKYKwaszWwsKbjCB4KpJ0f5Y2nQGDGjOH6CZxC8DYGzvK1k47y3GCapq9K3Eg0MW+zVEGnltpqOFSX0PlM9rhNfeJWrhGfOnliumQUXpVfhlHiHtSkxdxd2+StUFrBkob0wJxJdYO3GAbwIDAQAB,