GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[trixter]

Why is the google group containing all of the emails locked?  May i request access to view more.  i have 1 foot in and 1 foot out and would like access to the rest of the leaked content.   Will this be possible?

It was never meant to be public, they set it to public to make it easier to share internally.  It was an official real GAW thing not a leak repository.  This is some of the incompetence that I spoke of earlier in this thread.

[1715390612]

1715390612

[Paul Revere]

[suchmoon]

Lets be clear here my involvement in a Ponzi has nothing to do with this discussion or relevancy.   My involvement with a ponzi  ( my ponzi) is for the same reason of my involvement with Paycoin.   I am a opportunist.    With a Ponzi i seen it is quite clear over the last few months that there is a market for ponzi scheme's and people are willing to risk it.  There is a Demand why should i not provide the service?   If you take note at my negative rep,  there are no comments about me not paying but i was simply flagged for operating it.  I still don't understand the relevancy to this conversation.

My point was not that there are not other discussions about scam coins But none of them are 1500 pages long nor have received this much attention.

and i ask again,  Would it make a difference if gaw were to release Every single one of those features tommorrow?  or would you find something else?


& yes,  Bitcoin bar is dick,   I always chose not to communicate with him in particular because of the way he talks down to other users

I think you running a ponzi is very relevant to understanding your point of view.

Let me ask you this though. How many other altcoins have promised a $100 million CAF? Backed by a supposedly well known company? Partnerships with Amazon etc? Tricked 1000's (your number) of mining customers into becoming bagholders? Have been investigated by the SEC? If there is any other coin like this out there and doesn't have a 1000+ page thread I'd be really surprised too.

[rokkyroad]

I ask is there anything that gaw could do that would make this all stop?   Even if gaw was to release all the features they " promised" and deliver on everything @gawceo claimed they would,   Would you all fade away in the wind  or find something new to bitch about?

There will always be bitchers, detractors, and "trolls". Few threads on bctalk are immune.

The discussion, here at bctalk, was brought on by Gaw. We could not say anything negative at hashtalk or ask a sensitive question without deletion and banning. Many of us are Gaw investors who were not allowed to speak our minds at hashtalk, hence the anger and frustration.

I believe this thread has prevented innocents from losing money. That's good enough for me.

[not.you]

Ok,  I think 2 things should be addressed here.

You seem to have a ponzi site in your signature, was your account hacked or are you truly that ignorant?

Most of what you see about GAW et al is essentially Newton's Third Law. It did not start out of nowhere, it started and escalated as a response to many many many failures by GAW - from lack of transparency all the way to the SEC investigation. Same about the HT users being ridiculed here. Bitcoin-bar and MrCoins are not the "kindhearted gullible" people.

A few exceptions where innocent bystanders might get caught up in this don't make this some sort of unfair attack. Learn to ignore those and focus on what matters.

If you want to discuss other coins and other cloud services - there are plenty of threads around here. You'll see that scam accusations are not uncommon. The scope of GAW's debacle and your own involvement in it might give you the impression that GAW is somehow singled out. It isn't. The reaction is simply proportional to what's happening.

Lets be clear here my involvement in a Ponzi has nothing to do with this discussion or relevancy.   My involvement with a ponzi  ( my ponzi) is for the same reason of my involvement with Paycoin.   I am a opportunist.    With a Ponzi i seen it is quite clear over the last few months that there is a market for ponzi scheme's and people are willing to risk it.  There is a Demand why should i not provide the service?   If you take note at my negative rep,  there are no comments about me not paying but i was simply flagged for operating it.  I still don't understand the relevancy to this conversation.

My point was not that there are not other discussions about scam coins But none of them are 1500 pages long nor have received this much attention.

and i ask again,  Would it make a difference if gaw were to release Every single one of those features tommorrow?  or would you find something else?


& yes,  Bitcoin bar is dick,   I always chose not to communicate with him in particular because of the way he talks down to other users

So you are running your own ponzi and you are concerned that we are being too mean towards GAW?  Does that about describe your position?  I just want to be sure before I put another moron on ignore is all.

[bumpershot]

and i ask again,  Would it make a difference if gaw were to release Every single one of those features tommorrow?  or would you find something else?

I want them to be legit. It would be fantastic if they busted out tomorrow with, "Here's the $20 buyback. No strings. And here's a new version of the coin with compressed blockchain and processing tiers. And here are the details of how you can use Paycoin at amazon.com. Also, here you can sign up for a card that can be used anywhere Paypal can be used, like Dollar General and Home Depot. Oh, and we're turning back on mining for each hashlet until we can sell the machine behind it, at which time we'll pay you a portion of the proceeds commensurate with the size of your hashlet."

I think that's pretty much it. Actually, if they just came up with a way to use Paycoin at stores for $20 each, I'd call them not a scam. I think that would be enough.

[rawbot]

I am learning a bit more about tracing Blockchain. What fun stuff, it is amazing what you can find out doing that.  

I watched "The Imitation Game" last night about Alan Turing and Bletchley park during world war 2.  I wonder what he would have thought about Bitcoin and the blockchain.

[jbreher]

1. )  This is intended to be an attack on GAW,  Not investors & users of HT.

Sorry. But surely you can understand the reason for the jabs. This discussion has been going on for months. I understand that greed blinds, but you'd need to be an axoltl to be unable to see that this is an up and up scam.

those people you are making fun of have shown Myself and countless others Overwhelming Kindness and generosity.

protip: the person looking you in the eye, with a big smile, shaking your hand, while his other hand is picking your pocket, is not showing you Overwhelming Kindness and generosity.

2. )  I dont think it can be Ignored that from before paycoin even launched there has been a overwhelming Negative response from this community @ the whole idea of paycoin and gaw.  

That is because it was an obvious scam from inception.

There have been 100's of other Alt coins that have come and gone,  Some which have been Very obvious IPO scams.

And they are pilloried in the marketplace of public discourse as well.

 yet NONE of them have received Not even close to the attention of you all that paycoin has.  

As the biggest obvious scam, it gets the most attention. Why would this surprise you?

With that said,  I think you must understand that some of these people including myself can see that,  I chose to reserve my opinion on the whole subject for now atleast untill the rest of those missing emails are made public.  But understand this Negative attention that has been directed at paycoin from the start gives me the 1 foot in 1 foot out kind of attitude.

What 'rest of those missing emails'? What makes you think that the discovery of GAW's entire email trove set to public visibility somehow cordoned off any positive emails? MrCoins? Please.

second protip: if you are, as you admit above, somewhat new to some endeavor, it might be wise to consider the words of those more experienced than yourself.

I mean honestly Most of this seems as if its a Direct Hate @Gaw itself,   I say this because 1000's of people have profited / ROI'd

That is the nature of ponzi schemes. Those in early often make money. Again, nothing inconsistent here.

is there anything that gaw could do that would make this all stop?

No - there is no 'out of this' for GAW. Fraud does not merit a do-over.

Even if gaw was to release all the features they " promised" and deliver on everything @gawceo claimed they would,  

You still don't get it. Your hypothetical is impossible. Even if Garza turned honest, he's still just a clueless moron incapable of delivering on the promises. Hell, even a very smart and motivated crypto team cannot deliver on the promises. Why do you put faith in one idiot that can't even string together a coherent sentence and no longer has any resources at his disposal, over hundreds of millions of dollars worth of silicon valley's best and brightest who have for two years or so been working toward the exact same goals? The mind boggles.

I have yet to make my mind up on all of this,   For now I have a 1/2 in 1/2 out kind of attitude and until i know more i am playing paycoin for nothing more then riding the waves.  reguardles of all the bad press it is under If one were to put his or her feelings aside there are quite a few of us making some nice profits riding these waves.

Yes, some people make money off of trading the stock of bankrupt public companies. Nobody does it consistently. Don't forget that there is always another wishful dreamer on the other side of every transaction. As a noob, what makes your insight more legit than that of the guy or gal on the other side of the trade?

[eightcylinders]

Ok,  I think 2 things should be addressed here.


1. )  This is intended to be an attack on GAW,  Not investors & users of HT.  It should be understood that Gaw's Target audience is the Newbie crowd ( including myself) I'm somewhat disturbed to see soo much ridicule / Fun poking @ alot of very kind hearted people.   You all must understand that although Crypto is full of shitheads and scammers there are indeed allot of kindhearted Gullible people in this world who are so to the point they are willing to ignore red flags to give something or someone the benefit of the Doubt.   My experience in that community has been great and those people you are making fun of have shown Myself and countless others Overwhelming Kindness and generosity.

I think most of us agree and until relatively recently, most "attacks" as you call them (assertions of truth I would call them) were directed at GAW, its owner, and to those who had a degree of control over at HT (especially ban happy admins and "badge" holders who took it upon themselves to suppress meaningful and questions in posts).  Those people still deserve to be skewered for their role in enabling the scheme despite our collective best efforts to out the fraud.  The "innocent" who have not engaged in these enabling activities have only recently been the subject of a few posters' who just cannot believe how gullible some on HT are but I agree the truly innocent deserve some pity rather than ridicule.

However, it is very difficult to see who is truly innocent over there.  When Mr. Coins posts his dribble defending the fraud, and a bunch of "innocents" chime in about how great his analysis is .. they followers are no longer really innocent.  When some folks question Mr. Coins' dribble and are drummed down by the masses of "innocents" .. they are no longer all that innocent.

At this point, the only really innocent folk left on HT are those who have never posts because any criticism will end you with a ban and the mindless acceptance will land you directly on the side of enabling criminal and immoral conduct.

2. )  I dont think it can be Ignored that from before paycoin even launched there has been a overwhelming Negative response from this community @ the whole idea of paycoin and gaw.  There have been 100's of other Alt coins that have come and gone,  Some which have been Very obvious IPO scams.  yet NONE of them have received Not even close to the attention of you all that paycoin has.  With that said,  I think you must understand that some of these people including myself can see that,  I chose to reserve my opinion on the whole subject for now atleast untill the rest of those missing emails are made public.  But understand this Negative attention that has been directed at paycoin from the start gives me the 1 foot in 1 foot out kind of attitude.

Just reverse FUD here.  Suchmoon, redacted, myself (under the banned zerocylinders name) and many many others here started out as **investors**/customers (some of us very substantial customers - I had over $35K in which is a lot to me).  We did not start out to "bash" Paycoin.  We started out as customers who had questions.  Questions which never got answered.  More, our questions led to ridicule and derision from GAW and GAW cronies.  THAT is why this thread got started, because we as investors/customers started to get concerned and became more and more concerned over time as promises were not kept (including many promises long before the $20 floor fiasco) and new promises were made that seemed very unlikely to be met.

Saying that everyone here on BCT "hates" Paycoin is a great way to deflect.  Its personal so you can ignore it.  That is a fallacy.  I don't hate Paycoin.  I see it is flawed from day one.  Many of us tried to point out its flaws and were ignored and banned and labelled as FUD or haters.  Now, those flaws have led directly to the downfall of GAW and will lead to Paycoin's demise (hyperinflaction and pre-mine all  alone are enough to ensure the death of Paycoin over time). 

So would you have us all who have been involved with GAW since the very beginning (June of 2014 in my case) just sit back and let newbies lose their money?  Wouldn't you want us to try to warn folks if we see a train headed off the tracks?  If you re-read this forum with that in mind (and keep in mind we have mostly all been IN the train at one point) I think you will see a lot less hate and FUD and a lot more reality.   

I mean honestly Most of this seems as if its a Direct Hate @Gaw itself,   I say this because 1000's of people have profited / ROI'd Via there cloud mining service when it was live,   Even before paycoin was even thought of.

Only a very few profited overall.  I got out with a small profit but only because I limited my exposure as soon as the flawed Hashstaker/Paycoin was announced and I realized it could not survive.  Had I waited only a week or two my "cloud mining" profits woudl have disappeared in the Hashstaker scam... and they were never profits from mining, so much as selling Primes to newbies who bought at inflated market prices due to hype.  So my slight gain was really someone else's massive loss.

So with all that,  I ask is there anything that gaw could do that would make this all stop?   Even if gaw was to release all the features they " promised" and deliver on everything @gawceo claimed they would,   Would you all fade away in the wind  or find something new to bitch about?

Since you ask, sure:

(1) Provide 100% transparency going back to the start.  This means coming clean about the scam cloud mining, the pre-mine XPY (and who hold/controls each and every pre-mined coin, along with an accounting of profits from sales), were all of the money GAW received went (from purchases of non-existing "miners", purchases of XPY, sales of XPY on markets, and sales of mining hardware after shutting down the mining operations)

(2) Verified destruction of all pre-mine coins and hyperinflation generated coins (staking > 5%) within GAW/Josh/Affiliates control

(3) Turning over XPY including source code repository and Prime Controller keys to Team XPY (promised but not yet done to my knowledge)
 
(4) Refunding all purchases of hashlets and hashtakers and XPY purchased from GAW since it was all based on false promises and false information

(5) Some indication of genuine remorse from Josh and others who were responsible

After that, I am satisfied.

[Phildo]

Ok,  I think 2 things should be addressed here.


1. )  This is intended to be an attack on GAW,  Not investors & users of HT.  It should be understood that Gaw's Target audience is the Newbie crowd ( including myself) I'm somewhat disturbed to see soo much ridicule / Fun poking @ alot of very kind hearted people.   You all must understand that although Crypto is full of shitheads and scammers there are indeed allot of kindhearted Gullible people in this world who are so to the point they are willing to ignore red flags to give something or someone the benefit of the Doubt.   My experience in that community has been great and those people you are making fun of have shown Myself and countless others Overwhelming Kindness and generosity.

2. )  I dont think it can be Ignored that from before paycoin even launched there has been a overwhelming Negative response from this community @ the whole idea of paycoin and gaw.  There have been 100's of other Alt coins that have come and gone,  Some which have been Very obvious IPO scams.  yet NONE of them have received Not even close to the attention of you all that paycoin has.  With that said,  I think you must understand that some of these people including myself can see that,  I chose to reserve my opinion on the whole subject for now atleast untill the rest of those missing emails are made public.  But understand this Negative attention that has been directed at paycoin from the start gives me the 1 foot in 1 foot out kind of attitude.


I mean honestly Most of this seems as if its a Direct Hate @Gaw itself,   I say this because 1000's of people have profited / ROI'd Via there cloud mining service when it was live,   Even before paycoin was even thought of.   there was a constant sense of bad press from this community around it.    So with all that,  I ask is there anything that gaw could do that would make this all stop?   Even if gaw was to release all the features they " promised" and deliver on everything @gawceo claimed they would,   Would you all fade away in the wind  or find something new to bitch about?

I have yet to make my mind up on all of this,   For now I have a 1/2 in 1/2 out kind of attitude and until i know more i am playing paycoin for nothing more then riding the waves.  reguardles of all the bad press it is under If one were to put his or her feelings aside there are quite a few of us making some nice profits riding these waves.

You act like the hate came out of nowhere. it started when GAW started selling fraudulent cloud miners based on impossible promises and ended up costing people money.

[Sujoy]

My involvement with a ponzi  ( my ponzi) is for the same reason of my involvement with Paycoin.   I am a opportunist.    With a Ponzi i seen it is quite clear over the last few months that there is a market for ponzi scheme's and people are willing to risk it.  There is a Demand why should i not provide the service?

Do you even understand what you're saying? There's a demand for paedophilia and child pornography. Are you going to provide the service to those people too?

If you still don't get it, Ponzi schemes are both illegal and despicable.

[Hellsgremlin]

Lets be clear here my involvement in a Ponzi has nothing to do with this discussion or relevancy.   My involvement with a ponzi  ( my ponzi) is for the same reason of my involvement with Paycoin.   I am a opportunist.    With a Ponzi i seen it is quite clear over the last few months that there is a market for ponzi scheme's and people are willing to risk it.  There is a Demand why should i not provide the service?   If you take note at my negative rep,  there are no comments about me not paying but i was simply flagged for operating it.  I still don't understand the relevancy to this conversation.

My point was not that there are not other discussions about scam coins But none of them are 1500 pages long nor have received this much attention.

and i ask again,  Would it make a difference if gaw were to release Every single one of those features tommorrow?  or would you find something else?


& yes,  Bitcoin bar is dick,   I always chose not to communicate with him in particular because of the way he talks down to other users

I think you running a ponzi is very relevant to understanding your point of view.

Let me ask you this though. How many other altcoins have promised a $100 million CAF? Backed by a supposedly well known company? Partnerships with Amazon etc? Tricked 1000's (your number) of mining customers into becoming bagholders? Have been investigated by the SEC? If there is any other coin like this out there and doesn't have a 1000+ page thread I'd be really surprised too.

If you want to understand my point of view you can ask.
My point of view is simple,   I'm a Opportunist,  I look at paycoin and Gaw as a either a Huge ROI for a Small entry or a complete Loss,  Although all of this has made it easier for me to make practical profits by riding the waves.  So as much as you may think that This is Hurting me and my post are to try and dispute / defend Gaw to protect my investment. The Fud  has actually helped me profit very much so from selling high and re buying when the dumps happen which is easy to predict by monitoring the traffic to this very thread.

It should also be noted,  My ponzi wasn't a Scam & was advertised for what it is and went a step further to explain and warn users of exactly how their money was used and what was nessary for them to be paid.     So before i get treated like a guy who ran a ponzi and stole a bunch of money,  Please take note that my only obligation to my useres was to leave the scripts online  that anyone who Bet @  my website was well informed and willing to risk it.  should be treated no differently then a guy who goes Yolo on a Blackjack hand and loses!


Furthermore me having to defend my character is only Validating my point.   Why are you turning it into an attack on my character just because i questioned you?

( Which reminds me to make a payment on my loan)

[Hellsgremlin]

Ok,  I think 2 things should be addressed here.


1. )  This is intended to be an attack on GAW,  Not investors & users of HT.  It should be understood that Gaw's Target audience is the Newbie crowd ( including myself) I'm somewhat disturbed to see soo much ridicule / Fun poking @ alot of very kind hearted people.   You all must understand that although Crypto is full of shitheads and scammers there are indeed allot of kindhearted Gullible people in this world who are so to the point they are willing to ignore red flags to give something or someone the benefit of the Doubt.   My experience in that community has been great and those people you are making fun of have shown Myself and countless others Overwhelming Kindness and generosity.

2. )  I dont think it can be Ignored that from before paycoin even launched there has been a overwhelming Negative response from this community @ the whole idea of paycoin and gaw.  There have been 100's of other Alt coins that have come and gone,  Some which have been Very obvious IPO scams.  yet NONE of them have received Not even close to the attention of you all that paycoin has.  With that said,  I think you must understand that some of these people including myself can see that,  I chose to reserve my opinion on the whole subject for now atleast untill the rest of those missing emails are made public.  But understand this Negative attention that has been directed at paycoin from the start gives me the 1 foot in 1 foot out kind of attitude.


I mean honestly Most of this seems as if its a Direct Hate @Gaw itself,   I say this because 1000's of people have profited / ROI'd Via there cloud mining service when it was live,   Even before paycoin was even thought of.   there was a constant sense of bad press from this community around it.    So with all that,  I ask is there anything that gaw could do that would make this all stop?   Even if gaw was to release all the features they " promised" and deliver on everything @gawceo claimed they would,   Would you all fade away in the wind  or find something new to bitch about?

I have yet to make my mind up on all of this,   For now I have a 1/2 in 1/2 out kind of attitude and until i know more i am playing paycoin for nothing more then riding the waves.  reguardles of all the bad press it is under If one were to put his or her feelings aside there are quite a few of us making some nice profits riding these waves.

You act like the hate came out of nowhere. it started when GAW started selling fraudulent cloud miners based on impossible promises and ended up costing people money.

I ROI'd  My cloud mining :/  so im only to speak on my personal experience.   and yet again  i was never defending gaw or saying they are or are not a scam.   I am saying that its not fair to only pull the negative emails without providing full access to the entire db of leaked emails.   But in light of the new comments i now understand that it was not a actual leak but gaw incompitence by not securing the group.

[bumpershot]

It should also be noted,  My ponzi wasn't a Scam & was advertised for what it is and went a step further to explain and warn users of exactly how their money was used and what was nessary for them to be paid.

I think the confusion comes from you calling it a Ponzi for marketing purposes, as bass ackwards as that sounds, when it's really not a Ponzi. Anywhere I've seen a Ponzi scheme defined by regulatory agency, it requires fraud. If you're upfront about everything, there's no fraud, and it's not a Ponzi. It's just gambling.

[rawbot]

( Which reminds me to make a payment on my loan)

Considering the words "Warning : Trade with extreme caution" In big red letters next to your username that doesn't seem to be something you are very good at!

[suchmoon]

Why are you turning it into an attack on my character just because i questioned you?

I'm not attacking your "character", I'm just saying that the fact of you running a ponzi site helps me to understand your point of view, and it does. I would say that "understand" is almost the opposite of "attack".

I never once mentioned that you're stealing, or any of that other stuff. So please spare me the drama.

[dave01]

Since you ask, sure:

(1) Provide 100% transparency going back to the start.  This means coming clean about the scam cloud mining, the pre-mine XPY (and who hold/controls each and every pre-mined coin, along with an accounting of profits from sales), were all of the money GAW received went (from purchases of non-existing "miners", purchases of XPY, sales of XPY on markets, and sales of mining hardware after shutting down the mining operations)

(2) Verified destruction of all pre-mine coins and hyperinflation generated coins (staking > 5%) within GAW/Josh/Affiliates control

(3) Turning over XPY including source code repository and Prime Controller keys to Team XPY (promised but not yet done to my knowledge)
 
(4) Refunding all purchases of hashlets and hashtakers and XPY purchased from GAW since it was all based on false promises and false information

(5) Some indication of genuine remorse from Josh and others who were responsible

After that, I am satisfied.
...

Alot of smart people have made money from this.
You could have made alot if you had thought about it a bit more from the start.
Josh has given you..... the smart ones an opportunity and look what you have done with it.
Oh ye of little /hope

[systematicdeception]

I can't wait for the massive dump that will occur when Josh finally lets his customers withdrawal from the trap he has them in.... Paybase will die the minute they re-enable withdrawals.

[LightRider]

What is this and why was it locked/deleted so fast?

https://twitter.com/rogerkver/status/573532601379520512

[coinits]

IMHO the company was lacking money well before the XPY fiasco. If anything XPY was the last ditch attempt to save it. The unpaid power bill (from November was it?) proves that. I mean who in their right mind would neglect to pay the bill for the one part of their business that still generates income?

I completely agree, this is one reason why the SEC were busy on this in January, the fallout had already started and they were fielding a growing wave of angry people complaining about GAW and their practises. I believe many people, especially those on HT, thought the threats to do so were just hot air... apparently not!

The mass exodus of staff is also something that's an indicator. As money was leaking staff costs weren't helping, then a "sudden"? loss of a few key staff, again an indicator of something, I think the JM mails hint at something there. All in all it highlights that GAW was in a tight and ever tightening spot.

Legal issues growing, Customer anger growing, Timescales growing, Bills growing and Money was diminishing faster than they could keep up.

As a business, this has suffered greatly and I believe is close to a break point.

As a coin, I'm not convinced it's got the mojo left in it to succeed, and thats despite some good efforts by some good people.

As a Brand.. well, there's an interesting one.... If for example it were bought as a name and (tm) by PayPal, then it may well succeed. It would then become a digital token of some kind never to darken a QT wallet again.

Oh, and of course, all current Paycoins aka XPY would be dead. That would be part of the deal as they couldn't have two Paycoins out there muddying the mix.

Let's just forget about the whole scam debate for a moment and look at the coin itself:

Centralized
Heavily Premined
Primes GAW ownership/staff & rich suckers get magnitudes of staking more than anyone else
$20 floor guarantee

When it come to crypto the only guarantee is that there are none. This was a flawed design and a failed model. Homero said as much in an email where he had a 'vision'

Now throw a scam into the mix and we have theft. His 'vision' shows that he executed this plan knowing that it would fail. That right there is criminal.