GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[numanoid]

How very odd, he wishes to maintain the illusion that Amazon, Walmart and Target will accept his coin directly, while at the same time explaining that they will be using a browser plug-in to make it appear as though any vendor website accepts their coin.

Why would he wish to continue this particular ruse when he has now revealed how it will all work?

100% agree with this.  He may, however, have some direct merchants lined up.  That is his primary goal here.  With the fiat reserve he expects a non-volatile price and that will attract merchants.  Had Amazon gone all in with BTC 6 months ago and HELD those BTC, their profits on all sales in that time frame would have been dropped to nearly 50%.  How can any company that answers to shareholders do that?  

It's a fundamental problem with cryptos that can be manipulated as easily as bitcoin when volume is low.

[numanoid]

Yes but it costs money which no doubt you will have to pay. I cannot see it being seamless and beneficial to the buyer, unless as I mentioned there is a discount built in. Otherwise you will pay GAW a transaction fee to use their coin on any website that sells something. While appears to be nothing more than monopoly money there are costs involved and someone has to pay them.

Good point.  We'll have to see.  I bet the whitepaper doesn't cover this scenario.  The transaction fees section in the whitepaper are pretty straightforward, but we have to assume that is a native paycoin transaction.

[KC6TTR]

Scott-

Question for you, and if you can't legally answer it, that I guess is understandible, because it is of a legal nature.

I know your saying that those who Endorse a Ponzi and make their ROI while being aware of it's nature as said ponzi would also be liable legally.   But truth be told, isn't it anyone who is involved?   Not for legal purposes of liability, but in terms of restitution,   I.E.  Some people who didn't know Madoff was a scam did get in and out and came out ahead, but the amount they came out ahead was still subject to seizure to cover the losses of later investors, I thought.

Thus then, if that situation comes to pass, are you going to hold any btc you profited from your divesture of GAW items for such a situation?

Not a criticism, just curious because this is definately one of the most interesting threads with some far reaching implications, if you ignore all the pointless posts.

It all comes down to verifiable intent and the time frame of the association. Regardless, the prosecuting authority has the final say on who they hold liable and for what. I agree with much of what your saying. If/when I testify in court, I am already prepared to show with verifiable backup how much I had invested with GAW and how much I sold it all for. It is no secrete who I sold the bulk of everything to and I contend I only realized approx. a 73% ROI, which is fine as my focus was to get out and NOT be a party to what I considered at that stage to be a scheme well in the making.

Smart and honest business is much more valuable to me than pocketing a few dozen BTC.

Scott-

[maildir]

I fear we are building his product for him as we speak, liken it to a Sam's Club or Costco, with membership and card in hand. Bulk buying power at work. If he signs up 1 million users and controls them and can dictate how and where they can shop via the browser plug-in, one might assume any vendor might come rushing to him to have him direct his customer base to their store(s).

The farcical state of the matter is how exceedingly contra to crypto currency it all is.

[elrugrim]

Scott-

Question for you, and if you can't legally answer it, that I guess is understandible, because it is of a legal nature.

I know your saying that those who Endorse a Ponzi and make their ROI while being aware of it's nature as said ponzi would also be liable legally.   But truth be told, isn't it anyone who is involved?   Not for legal purposes of liability, but in terms of restitution,   I.E.  Some people who didn't know Madoff was a scam did get in and out and came out ahead, but the amount they came out ahead was still subject to seizure to cover the losses of later investors, I thought.

Thus then, if that situation comes to pass, are you going to hold any btc you profited from your divesture of GAW items for such a situation?

Not a criticism, just curious because this is definately one of the most interesting threads with some far reaching implications, if you ignore all the pointless posts.

It all comes down to verifiable intent and the time frame of the association. Regardless, the prosecuting authority has the final say on who they hold liable and for what. I agree with much of what your saying. If/when I testify in court, I am already prepared to show with verifiable backup how much I has invested with GAW and how much I sold it all for. It is no secrete who I sold the bulk of everything to and I contend I only realized approx. a 73% ROI, which is fine as my focus was to get out and NOT be a party to what I considered at that stage to be a scheme well in the making.

Smart and honest business is much more valuable to me than pocketing a few dozen BTC.

Scott-

Thanks for the answer.    It's in interesting interaction with crypto and the legal system under US law, since alot of the more scammy things that exist happen outside the boundries of said US law.    Do appreciate your input.

[sburn]

However, continuing to support that scheme after being notified of the potential and likelihood of it being a Ponzi situation opens those collaborating with the source facilitating the scheme up to liability as well. Just saying...

Please cite any law or case where such a thing has happened.  While you're at it, provide a legal definition of "collaborating" and "notified".  Are you somehow suggesting that your posting on a random Internet forum is some kind of legally valid notification?  Are you somehow suggesting that GAW customers who might read such a random Internet forum and don't close their account now open themselves up to some kind of, in you words, "liability"? 

You're tossing out a bunch of legal-sounding verbiage here, so it's not unreasonable for a reader to ask what your exact legal qualifications and training are and what statutes or cases support your position.

[suchmoon]

If the user above me is this https://hashtalk.org/user/sburn

Please exercise extreme caution interacting with this user. Nothing good can come out of it. Don't say I didn't warn you.

[sburn]

If the user above me is this https://hashtalk.org/user/sburn

Please exercise extreme caution interacting with this user. Nothing good can come out of it. Don't say I didn't warn you.

One and the same.

Thanks, suchmoon.  I hope your helpful post does cull out the folks who want to argue without bringing actual facts, or at a minimum, reasoned opinions.

[Snipe85]

I see lot of people registering on the forum just to join this thread. They should give you an award or something. Just sayin'  

[Searing]

Back to my question (waivering on keeping my GAW tag line below)

WHEN if ever is this new GAW Paycoin going to have/and or allow home miners or others not on the GAW network to possibly MINE coins w/o
the purchase of a virtural miner?

just saying I have a 567gh KNC Jupiter from 0ct 2013 sitting here ..I would give the guy cred if such asic sha256 units could
redirect to this coin...

if it is all and or only virtual mining yeah..or NOT AT THIS TIME TO BE DETERMINED well that tells me much too and time to look for a new tagline

(sigh I liked that 0.10 btc a month for 50 posts)

still on fence half the folk swear by gaw half the folks say he is the next BFL with bigger $$$ backers

[suchmoon]

Back to my question (waivering on keeping my GAW tag line below)

WHEN if ever is this new GAW Paycoin going to have/and or allow home miners or others not on the GAW network to possibly MINE coins w/o
the purchase of a virtural miner?

just saying I have a 567gh KNC Jupiter from 0ct 2013 sitting here ..I would give the guy cred if such asic sha256 units could
redirect to this coin...

if it is all and or only virtual mining yeah..or NOT AT THIS TIME TO BE DETERMINED well that tells me much too and time to look for a new tagline

(sigh I liked that 0.10 btc a month for 50 posts)

still on fence half the folk swear by gaw half the folks say he is the next BFL with bigger $$$ backers

That's an interesting question, and it doesn't seem to be answered on this timeline: http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/376190/GAW-Timeline/

Technically it should be possible once PayCoin is launched, i.e. the network and the blockchain become available - sometime between December 15 and January 2.

Sorry can't help you more, there is not enough information on that.

[maildir]

It has nothing to do with Miners, Mining, Crypto Currency or anything remotely related. It is all thinly disguised as so.

It is a scheme to sign up "eyeballs" and then sell the whole thing. You can just as well create an internet forum, sign up as many users as you can, and then peddle it to some marketers.

This is what is happening with this faux crypto currency.

[Searing]

Back to my question (waivering on keeping my GAW tag line below)

WHEN if ever is this new GAW Paycoin going to have/and or allow home miners or others not on the GAW network to possibly MINE coins w/o
the purchase of a virtural miner?

just saying I have a 567gh KNC Jupiter from 0ct 2013 sitting here ..I would give the guy cred if such asic sha256 units could
redirect to this coin...

if it is all and or only virtual mining yeah..or NOT AT THIS TIME TO BE DETERMINED well that tells me much too and time to look for a new tagline

(sigh I liked that 0.10 btc a month for 50 posts)

still on fence half the folk swear by gaw half the folks say he is the next BFL with bigger $$$ backers

That's an interesting question, and it doesn't seem to be answered on this timeline: http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/376190/GAW-Timeline/

Technically it should be possible once PayCoin is launched, i.e. the network and the blockchain become available - sometime between December 15 and January 2.

Sorry can't help you more, there is not enough information on that.

if i was gonna do such a paycoin deal (even if it was a scam) I would to it with an open pool and sha256 outdated hardware it would create buzz..every frigging old
sha 256 miner would be poised at the launch.....would make quite the media splash...

but then again that run away horse you would have a hard time 'spinning' the facts on how well the coin was doing etc..you'd be giving up control

my guess is because we have NOT heard such touted...we will get 'in the future' comment

again if all vitural controlled by gaw this paycoin etc...well then that will tell us much

quite truthfully that is what i expect

but man if you wanted to confuse me on your long term intentions towards home miners make it an accessable pool based coin

and i'd be back to fence sitting and scratching my head

i'm sure this will get cleared up here soon...just saying the fact it is not touted means to me it is likely not being done or considered

my 2c worth not that i know squat (i bought a no roi no refund titan from knc)

[numanoid]

Thanks for the answer.    It's in interesting interaction with crypto and the legal system under US law, since alot of the more scammy things that exist happen outside the boundries of said US law.    Do appreciate your input.

Scott's assertion is somewhat ridiculous.  If you were an insider to a Ponzi and knowingly promoted and invested for your gain, then yes, you may be liable.  That said, "investors" of a ponzi, that don't know it's a ponzi are NOT liable under any case that I've seen.  Many high profile people invested into Madoff's Ponzi that, in turn, made it so successful.  None of these people, who were not in on the scheme, had any criminal prosecution.

They key word is "collaborate" which is clear in its meaning of "working together".  An unaware early investor is NOT liable for criminal nor civil litigation.

Scott, if you disagree, please post examples.  I could find nothing.

[suchmoon]

I see lot of people registering on the forum just to join this thread. They should give you an award or something. Just sayin'  

Who, me? More likely theymos would bill me for extra bandwidth and disk space and I don't think he accepts hashpoints (yes, that's a pathetic attempt to put this back on topic).

[galdur]

So what´s with the shitcoin that´s still trading at Cryptsy ?

PYC, Paycoin.

Is that going to coexist with this one ?

[zarton]

Just saw the newsleeter, it seems a new miner or limited miner.  Let's see this friday.

[suchmoon]

Thanks for the answer.    It's in interesting interaction with crypto and the legal system under US law, since alot of the more scammy things that exist happen outside the boundries of said US law.    Do appreciate your input.

Scott's assertion is somewhat ridiculous.  If you were an insider to a Ponzi and knowingly promoted and invested for your gain, then yes, you may be liable.  That said, "investors" of a ponzi, that don't know it's a ponzi are NOT liable under any case that I've seen.  Many high profile people invested into Madoff's Ponzi that, in turn, made it so successful.  None of these people, who were not in on the scheme, had any criminal prosecution.

They key word is "collaborate" which is clear in its meaning of "working together".  An unaware early investor is NOT liable for criminal nor civil litigation.

Scott, if you disagree, please post examples.  I could find nothing.

I can't speak for Scott and IANAL but I think he might be referring to "Ponzi clawback" and yes, that is a thing.

[sburn]

It has nothing to do with Miners, Mining, Crypto Currency or anything remotely related. It is all thinly disguised as so.

If it were a "disguise", buying 5 PH/s of mining hardware, showing pictures a data center(s), and selling actual physical miners, is an awfully difficult way of creating a disguise, isn't it?  Why not just create a pretty web page somewhere with some data center stock photos and a to-good-to-be-true rate and bank the BTC as long as you can.

It is a scheme to sign up "eyeballs" and then sell the whole thing. You can just as well create an internet forum, sign up as many users as you can, and then peddle it to some marketers.

I doubt there's much of a market for just internet forums.  But I could be wrong.

This is what is happening with this faux crypto currency.

I assume that you, after after reading GAW's WP, will provide your opinion of what "faux" means in this context.

[suchmoon]

if i was gonna do such a paycoin deal (even if it was a scam) I would to it with an open pool and sha256 outdated hardware it would create buzz..every frigging old
sha 256 miner would be poised at the launch.....would make quite the media splash...

Trouble is, if it's profitable for old hardware, it's even more profitable for newer hardware, so eventually with difficulty adjustments it would likely balance out at roughly the same profitability as Bitcoin, or even lower if GAW is willing to mine it at a lower profit due to being able to make money elsewhere in the foodchain.