GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[corygto]

I guess I don't understand...

So are people actually lining up to pay for a "cloud wallet" that stakes coins that don't exist?

I feel like there are plenty of PoS coins out there that you can stake for free using a downloaded wallet. Why are people paying for monthly contracts to do just that 

Ok, I'm gonna repeat this louder: 400% APY

To paraphrase someone: If you can resist that we don't want you as a customer

But how can you possibly base this on a coin that doesn't exist!? It's pure speculation.

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[jimmothy]

I guess I don't understand...

So are people actually lining up to pay for a "cloud wallet" that stakes coins that don't exist?

I feel like there are plenty of PoS coins out there that you can stake for free using a downloaded wallet. Why are people paying for monthly contracts to do just that 

Ok, I'm gonna repeat this louder: 400% APY

To paraphrase someone: If you can resist that we don't want you as a customer

But how can you possibly base this on a coin that doesn't exist!? It's pure speculation.

You just have to believe.

[elkrisi]

The future of cryptocurrency is in the cloud. Datacenters cut power costs in half and maximize uptime. They even keep, noisy and sensitive equipment safely outside your home. HashStaker is the world's first Cloud Staking Wallet, perfectly optimized to thrive in large, controlled datacenters and achieve massive economies of scale to offer unparralled availability. All HashStakers are hosted in the most robust cloud mining and cloud hosting data centers in the world with 99.99% uptime guaranteed.

This might be the most hilariously absurd thing GAW has said yet.

Who actually thinks this is a real company again?

The people who profited with Hashlets.
They have enough clients, don't you worry. If it wasn't so your employers wouldn't be paying you to write this crap.

I've profited from haslets only after I sold them and I don't think this company is legit.  Thats how a ponzi scheme works. the pyramid is getting top heavy. It's the newbies in there now that need to watch out..

You profited, great. So the company has brought you profits and still hasn't scammed anyone, but you don't trust them because what? They look suspicious, right?
If it's a ponzi scheme, and as you said getting top heavy, it should soon be over. Just wait see and don't forget to leave your comment if you are proven wrong

I have profited from GAW as I was in very early with hardware miners which turned into primes that are now worth 5X as much, so yes, I have big profits and I stay invested in GAW.

Does this make GAW legit? No. Say again: No.

Has it scammed anyone? Yes. Actually, it has scammed EACH AND EVERYONE of its clients.

The marketing that was done back in August - September was selling Primes as MINERS of BTC that would have DIMINISHING FEES over time. The only thing stable at zenminers since August 2014 are the big blue-white $0.08 and $0.01 fees... I stayed with Primes based on GAWs declarations of making Prime miners profitable IN BTC for the long run. And I believed that a company with serious engineering and planning could achieve economies of scale in therms of electricity costs, hardware costs etc to provide AT LEAST something of what was promised.

Nothing of that short came to being. Instead GAW TOTALLY CHANGES its promises (on which promises I for one had made my decision to join the company).
As if by magic, thousands of people are led (bullied) to mine the company's vouchers (code named PayCoin) instead of BTC.

Are those people happy? Yes, they are RAVING in hashtalk about their luck and dream of what car they'll buy with their PayCoins. GAW's marketing is playing masterfully with the only perennial value of humans: greed.

But let me stop right there and explain WHY I'm writing this and why all this criticism against GAW since, after all, I AM IN PROFIT with them?

Because this is CRYPTO WORLD.
It is a huge revolution for humanity. It is the first time people are creating money and deal with that without any authority. Away from governments and the banking cartel. This is a huge social experiment. It reveals the good and the bad in humanity. It brings out in the open the forces that will shape things for tomorrow.

If GAW was selling laptops or making cellphones or Christmas cookies I wouldn't pay any attention to them.
But GAW is into CRYPTO. The first stage of what is to me and thousands more crypto enthusiasts on this planet a true revolution for humanity.
So, yes, I take extreme interest of how people are behaving. How they deal with the technology, how they plan to use it and how they invest and build companies around it.

THIS is what fuels my interest for GAW, for BFL, for MtGox, for the alt coin scene, for Ripple, for Doge, for Noble, for VIA, for BAY, for anything.

It is not about Josh career and not about proving GAW is a ponzi or not. It is about how people are handling this technology.

You may have not realized it but we are dealing with a totally unregulated environment here. When Josh says it has 100,000,000 USD to back PayCoin, this is a NUMBER ON OUR SCREENS. This is not an audited bank account verified to hold 100 million by an entity set up under law to provide liquidity strictly for PayCoin. This is just what we see on our browsers for heaven's sake!! It is no more real than the Hashlet ICONs that are "scarce" and limited in numbers!

People WANT to believe in it, they / we WANT to believe that this is for real. And we behave, talk, act and PAY as if they were real. And we place our trust for this to be real SOLELY on a single person and his close team of associates.

That is OK - after all, this is what UNregulated means. But exactly because of that we should scrutinize everything, watch it closely and KEEP OUR EYES open to see the red flags.

I'm not thinking in black and white, I'm not saying GAW is a 100% Ponzi. There are multiple scenarios that could be playing here. Perhaps Josh started out with no criminal intentions. Perhaps he honestly believed he could really reach economies of scale and truly offer lower and lower fees. I do not know. But I can't help pointing out that in this process he FAILED BIG TIME.

From that point onwards, all is red flag territory.

[corygto]

The future of cryptocurrency is in the cloud. Datacenters cut power costs in half and maximize uptime. They even keep, noisy and sensitive equipment safely outside your home. HashStaker is the world's first Cloud Staking Wallet, perfectly optimized to thrive in large, controlled datacenters and achieve massive economies of scale to offer unparralled availability. All HashStakers are hosted in the most robust cloud mining and cloud hosting data centers in the world with 99.99% uptime guaranteed.

This might be the most hilariously absurd thing GAW has said yet.

Who actually thinks this is a real company again?

The people who profited with Hashlets.
They have enough clients, don't you worry. If it wasn't so your employers wouldn't be paying you to write this crap.

I've profited from haslets only after I sold them and I don't think this company is legit.  Thats how a ponzi scheme works. the pyramid is getting top heavy. It's the newbies in there now that need to watch out..

You profited, great. So the company has brought you profits and still hasn't scammed anyone, but you don't trust them because what? They look suspicious, right?
If it's a ponzi scheme, and as you said getting top heavy, it should soon be over. Just wait see and don't forget to leave your comment if you are proven wrong

I have profited from GAW as I was in very early with hardware miners which turned into primes that are now worth 5X as much, so yes, I have big profits and I stay invested in GAW.

Does this make GAW legit? No. Say again: No.

Has it scammed anyone? Yes. Actually, it has scammed EACH AND EVERYONE of its clients.

The marketing that was done back in August - September was selling Primes as MINERS of BTC that would have DIMINISHING FEES over time. The only thing stable at zenminers since August 2014 are the big blue-white $0.08 and $0.01 fees... I stayed with Primes based on GAWs declarations of making Prime miners profitable IN BTC for the long run. And I believed that a company with serious engineering and planning could achieve economies of scale in therms of electricity costs, hardware costs etc to provide AT LEAST something of what was promised.

Nothing of that short came to being. Instead GAW TOTALLY CHANGES its promises (on which promises I for one had made my decision to join the company).
As if by magic, thousands of people are led (bullied) to mine the company's vouchers (code named PayCoin) instead of BTC.

Are those people happy? Yes, they are RAVING in hashtalk about their luck and dream of what car they'll buy with their PayCoins. GAW's marketing is playing masterfully with the only perennial value of humans: greed.

But let me stop right there and explain WHY I'm writing this and why all this criticism against GAW since, after all, I AM IN PROFIT with them?

Because this is CRYPTO WORLD.
It is a huge revolution for humanity. It is the first time people are creating money and deal with that without any authority. Away from governments and the banking cartel. This is a huge social experiment. It reveals the good and the bad in humanity. It brings out in the open the forces that will shape things for tomorrow.

If GAW was selling laptops or making cellphones or Christmas cookies I wouldn't pay any attention to them.
But GAW is into CRYPTO. The first stage of what is to me and thousands more crypto enthusiasts on this planet a true revolution for humanity.
So, yes, I take extreme interest of how people are behaving. How they deal with the technology, how they plan to use it and how they invest and build companies around it.

THIS is what fuels my interest for GAW, for BFL, for MtGox, for the alt coin scene, for Ripple, for Doge, for Noble, for VIA, for BAY, for anything.

It is not about Josh career and not about proving GAW is a ponzi or not. It is about how people are handling this technology.

You may have not realized it but we are dealing with a totally unregulated environment here. When Josh says it has 100,000,000 USD to back PayCoin, this is a NUMBER ON OUR SCREENS. This is not an audited bank account verified to hold 100 million by an entity set up under law to provide liquidity strictly for PayCoin. This is just what we see on our browsers for heaven's sake!! It is no more real than the Hashlet ICONs that are "scarce" and limited in numbers!

People WANT to believe in it, they / we WANT to believe that this is for real. And we behave, talk, act and PAY as if they were real. And we place our trust for this to be real SOLELY on a single person and his close team of associates.

That is OK - after all, this is what UNregulated means. But exactly because of that we should scrutinize everything, watch it closely and KEEP OUR EYES open to see the red flags.

I'm not thinking in black and white, I'm not saying GAW is a 100% Ponzi. There are multiple scenarios that could be playing here. Perhaps Josh started out with no criminal intentions. Perhaps he honestly believed he could really reach economies of scale and truly offer lower and lower fees. I do not know. But I can't help pointing out that in this process he FAILED BIG TIME.

From that point onwards, all is red flag territory.

Well said.

[becker]

How high can you build a shit mountain, randy. Before it falls over and drowns everyone in a ginormous shitalanche.

[corygto]

How high can you build a shit mountain, randy. Before it falls over and drowns everyone in a ginormous shitalanche.

Good ole' TPB 

[zarton]

What a deception the new miners, good luck to the people who bought these.

[mullvads]

http://gawful.org - Share your GAW nightmare stories if you have been scammed by them

[Just Magicmann]

After eighteen days, I've made eleven cents off a 1Mh/s ZenMiner.

[jackbox]

After eighteen days, I've made eleven cents off a 1Mh/s ZenMiner.

Congrats! You are a Zen Master Miner. 

[raskul]

After eighteen days, I've made eleven cents off a 1Mh/s ZenMiner.

and how much did that 11cents cost you?

[seedtrue]

Did not have time to read recent posts. Is this HashStaker thing just another way to delay paying BTC to GAW customers?

[raskul]

Did not have time to read recent posts. Is this HashStaker thing just another way to delay paying BTC to GAW customers?

customers victims are actually, by buying into this, showing that they have no interest in BTC, so why will they ever be paid?

[jackbox]

Did not have time to read recent posts. Is this HashStaker thing just another way to delay paying BTC to GAW customers?

It is a way to fund the ponzi since it was running out of btc to pay hashlets (IMO).

[Phildo]

Did not have time to read recent posts. Is this HashStaker thing just another way to delay paying BTC to GAW customers?

Is it one of GAW's announcements? The answer to both questions, as always, is yes.

[seedtrue]

Did not have time to read recent posts. Is this HashStaker thing just another way to delay paying BTC to GAW customers?

It is a way to fund the ponzi since it was running out of btc to pay hashlets (IMO).

What I mean is, the deadline was approaching where people were going to be able to exchange the magical Paycoins for $20 each. Now GAW has a great idea to sell these "stakers" that you need to tie up x amount of your Paycoins for 3-6 months to get an extra amount of more Paycoin. So a large majority of people will now not sell at $20 because they want to gain more Paycoin in months time.

[jackbox]

Did not have time to read recent posts. Is this HashStaker thing just another way to delay paying BTC to GAW customers?

It is a way to fund the ponzi since it was running out of btc to pay hashlets (IMO).

What I mean is, the deadline was approaching where people were going to be able to exchange the magical Paycoins for $20 each. Now GAW has a great idea to sell these "stakers" that you need to tie up x amount of your Paycoins for 3-6 months to get an extra amount of more Paycoin. So a large majority of people will now not sell at $20 because they want to gain more Paycoin in months time.

What PayCoins? There are no PayCoins and probably will never be any PayCoins. The only PayCoins that exist are ones GAW mined and are still mining and belong exclusively to GAW. What crypto coin would anyone want to buy in where one company run by a scammer (IMO) controls almost the entire infrastructure? It is ridiculous on it's face and so sad many dupes are buying into it.

[cryptodaknight]

Do people still not get this, the Hash Staker prevents a dump, Pay Base is the end game, Pay Base will also allow BTC payments it is a  payment processing site that charges fees just not as high as a credit card. So by preventing the initial dump GAW has ensured any floor put in place is safe, the floor is payed by the hash staker. On primes and other hashlets convert, no more mining. GAW mines all equipment on either BTC or LTC. More money to keep the floor in place. After 2 or 3 months staked coins have doubled, customers are happy even though no real money. In 6 months Pay Base has taken off, pay coin slowly loses value and GAW states that he had the most profitable coin for the last 6 months and it is market forces causing the drop in price.
I say get in now, probably double your money, then the mining side of GAW will be gone and it will all be about pay base. The one problem GAW may find is that a competitor will come along and do the same without a bullshit coin or Pay Pal fully integrates bitcoin if that happens pay base is dead within 2 months and so is GAW as a business.

You're making sense. Don't do that, this is a thread for wild speculation and religious videos. Put it on HT and see how long you last 

Seriously though, this is an interesting theory. I still don't see how it would prevent me from dumping most of my coins at the first opportunity, but I'm probably underestimating the average greed of a GAW customer. We'll see.

I think Gaw would like some customers to dump first chance, less coins on the market or more in their hands. Seems like said above it's like CD for cryptos, but used word like your mining, POS. But really is more like a high paying CD. I also believe they are now switching over to Paycoin, which they will still mine BTC, to support their business, and also creating infracture similar to paypal but better. So in this alone it's pretty cool and ingenious honestly. They have so much money to build floor, but also support ongoing payment services, and marketing.

Love or hate Gawminer, unless they mismanage funds, or make a big mistake they will be a huge financial player longer in this, think of gaw as a new Paypal for cryptos. Least thats what I'm seeing here, but they brilliantly put this together in a good or bad way. Not sure yet.

[jackbox]

Do people still not get this, the Hash Staker prevents a dump, Pay Base is the end game, Pay Base will also allow BTC payments it is a  payment processing site that charges fees just not as high as a credit card. So by preventing the initial dump GAW has ensured any floor put in place is safe, the floor is payed by the hash staker. On primes and other hashlets convert, no more mining. GAW mines all equipment on either BTC or LTC. More money to keep the floor in place. After 2 or 3 months staked coins have doubled, customers are happy even though no real money. In 6 months Pay Base has taken off, pay coin slowly loses value and GAW states that he had the most profitable coin for the last 6 months and it is market forces causing the drop in price.
I say get in now, probably double your money, then the mining side of GAW will be gone and it will all be about pay base. The one problem GAW may find is that a competitor will come along and do the same without a bullshit coin or Pay Pal fully integrates bitcoin if that happens pay base is dead within 2 months and so is GAW as a business.

You're making sense. Don't do that, this is a thread for wild speculation and religious videos. Put it on HT and see how long you last 

Seriously though, this is an interesting theory. I still don't see how it would prevent me from dumping most of my coins at the first opportunity, but I'm probably underestimating the average greed of a GAW customer. We'll see.

I think Gaw would like some customers to dump first chance, less coins on the market or more in their hands. Seems like said above it's like CD for cryptos, but used word like your mining, POS. But really is more like a high paying CD. I also believe they are now switching over to Paycoin, which they will still mine BTC, to support their business, and also creating infracture similar to paypal but better. So in this alone it's pretty cool and ingenious honestly. They have so much money to build floor, but also support ongoing payment services, and marketing.

Love or hate Gawminer, unless they mismanage funds, or make a big mistake they will be a huge financial player longer in this, think of gaw as a new Paypal for cryptos. Least thats what I'm seeing here, but they brilliantly put this together in a good or bad way. Not sure yet.

It's all bad and will crash on day one, if there ever is a day one. They just pull it all of of Josh's ass as they go.

[cryptodaknight]

I'm unsure what the limitations are on the withdrawals. The site says "withdrawals limited based on amount as hot wallet doesn't contain large amounts". Now i've seen multiple hot wallet addresses for my withdrawals and most seemed to contain 127BTC. I did a withdrawal > 10BTC and it was set on pending. I had to lodge a ticket with a screenshot of the withdrawal pending AND the blockchain.info transaction address showing it had 0 BTC. I kept then doing around 4BTC at a time to stay under the radar amount and it worked till yesterday when a 2.91 or so one was held pending. They have released it now but they must be tracking your overall withdrawal amounts to with hold. I don't see why.... its not really protection since 2FA forced on people provide that protection so people need both my phone and password.

I noticed numerous bugs with withdrawals as well... sometimes it would say unable to process transaction in the red box... sometimes it would say enter btc amount even though i had it in there. I realised that something code wise their end wasn't running as the USD box next to the BTC box wasn't populating as i entered BTC.

I'm glad i've retrieved all my BTC though. I'd go back in if it was more transparent as i did like the interface and idea of hashlets but i can't get past the cult mentality of praise and no wrong on the hashtalk forums and the lack of providing proof to those asking for it. Saying have faith and trust isn't enough. Faith and trust hasn't brought out the CNN and Forbes or whatever it was articles... the Wall street journal thing wasn't an interview... it was a press release. Google trends show no heavy searching on this... target, wallmart and amazon WERE quoted by the CEO of GAW now thats gone. Its just too fishy.

I am stubbornly refusing to call it a ponzi simply because GAW does not need to use new customers' funds to pay old customers (the typical definition of a ponzi).

How do you know? What if the customer sales on market 10% (5% for sell 5% for buy) are whats supporting the payouts? As well as the new staker sales etc. Everything is being pushed to paycoin yet the customers are paying in BTC. Something isn't right. People are reinvesting BTC earned from payouts so nothing is leaving the eco system which would be typical of a mining contract... you pay upfront to take excess out.
This is all going to come crashing down i believe the day paycoin hits if it does. People are trying to get big amounts of paycoin with the expectation that they can go on paybase or whatever it is and sell @ $20. Shouldn't that $250 million backing allow people to withdraw @ that price? (unless that $250 million backing isn't real).

Who are the partners... why aren't they named? Sure NDA yeah yeah... is there a date they will come out and say who it is?

I think its way too dangerous. Its going to collapse eventually when enough strain happens. Its just at the start of it all with everyone establishing big investments for big returns. Come return time i think there is going to be alot of anger and tears.

Well good and valid points. I think the biggest problem people have with Gawminers, and rightfully so, is transparency is only is trust us from past actions. We don't see the whole picture yet.

Doesn't mean they have ill intentions, but does cause people in crytos especially to be very skeptical. We have been screwed a lot in this new market place, where scams are more predominant than legit coins or businesses.  So this thread IMO is good for talking about this coin and company.

I think until we see the whole plan with partners, then just are only going to have lots of uncertainty. Some will either win very big in trusting gaw, or will lose big. Time will tell.