▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ Cloudmining 101 (ponzi risk assessment) ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

[armedmilitia]

Found another one. Don't touch it with a ten foot pole.
https://www.miningsweden.se
Terrible website design too, the guy who came up with this can't spell.

[1715332445]

1715332445

[waterpile]

Found another one. Don't touch it with a ten foot pole.
https://www.miningsweden.se
Terrible website design too, the guy who came up with this can't spell.

Its a scam in my opinion, there are people already claiming that they lost their money and ROI in just 45 days? LoL they invented a super miner..

[sandy47bt]

I just found another ponzi cloud mining
10percentbtc.com - Bitcoin Cloud Mining

It's obvious this site is scam / ponzi
But, some newbies might fall into this

[Fiiasco]

I just found another ponzi cloud mining
10percentbtc.com - Bitcoin Cloud Mining

It's obvious this site is scam / ponzi
But, some newbies might fall into this

Basically a copy of scrypt.cc:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=978533.msg10681523#msg10681523

[l3sny]

This company is at a very high risk of ponzi default as I see the public discussions. They are 100% exposed. They just resell mining power, they don't seem to have actual miners. If hashnest goes down as well, they have 0 production. But hey, at least they have silver... which you purchased along with your share already ... or something...

So no, Kryptologika is ponzi as fuck!

First ponzi is when you take money from customers and pay them the dividends from the money from the  new ones. This is not the case with ourselves. Secondly it is not possible (or practical) to run ponzi lilke that based on fractional mining because the difficulty is not going up as hell and in the long/medium term you will just loose your coins (unless of course the number of new clients would be rising geometrically). We have always been and still are using diversified sources of hashing power: at the very beginning it was our own miners, then chinese private undertaking then various  other offers on the market with a view to pick the best offer. Either way we did not collapse nor we did not let down our customers as Puppet wished which I understand must be very frustrating to him and his acolytes.

We are the only offer on the market that offers residual value of the hashing power but not in dollars but in physical silver in the form of well recognized coins like American Eagles and Weinner Philharmonikers. Apart from that there are 0% trading fees.

And I will repeat it on every occasion someone is spreading lies and misinformation on my project here or elsewhere.

[ToQcHista]

this website is reliable ?

https://hashocean.com


on hashnest better ?

[Puppet]

First ponzi is when you take money from customers and pay them the dividends from the money from the  new ones. This is not the case with ourselves.

Prove it. Prove you have the hashrate. You have provided evidence to me once you once owned AMhash, but we all know what thats worth now. As long as you dont prove you have other hashrate, you belong to be on the list among the other ponzi's.
Besides, even if you do own hashrate elsewhere and act as a passthrough, its always going to be a higher risk, because you double the points of failure and your customers can not gauge the risk of whatever it is you are passing through. Could very well be another ponzi.

Secondly it is not possible (or practical) to run ponzi lilke that based on fractional mining because the difficulty is not going up as hell

Giant revelation: ponzi's are not sustainable.

and in the long/medium term you will just loose your coins

More likely, your two and a half customers end up losing coins.

[BombaUcigasa]

This company is at a very high risk of ponzi default as I see the public discussions. They are 100% exposed. They just resell mining power, they don't seem to have actual miners. If hashnest goes down as well, they have 0 production. But hey, at least they have silver... which you purchased along with your share already ... or something...

So no, Kryptologika is ponzi as fuck!

First ponzi is when you take money from customers and pay them the dividends from the money from the  new ones. This is not the case with ourselves.

What happened to the money that went into AMhash mining power? Is it gone? Have you been reimbursed that money by AMhash and passed it back to your clients? Are you still paying clients as if that power were available? Did you lower your payout or heightened your fees to compensate for the loss of revenue?

If you are paying dividends for that hashrate from the money of new clients (and not actual mining), guess what, you are a ponzi and you are screwing some customers.

If you are not paying dividends on that hashrate and you diluted the original contract to cover the loss, you are screwing most customers.

Your business is also over-complicating and convoluting what should be a simple offer. You have to prove your hashrate, your total deposits, your total dividends, your silver reserve and your supposedly active miners for which people paid because that's why they pay you and not buy the miners themselves.

I keep seeing those mining columns mockups you guys designed, did you happen to build some of those?

What is your installed mining power? Is it at least a few TH?

What happens when I purchase mining shares/contracts from you? What do you do with the actual money in your business process?

Good luck with your business.

[l3sny]

Thank you, it is going not bad so far

I think of all those queries and questions here and actually I see no reason or benefit from disclosing the sensitive data of our undertaking. First of all I was very open a couple of months ago and eager to make Puppet privy to how it works. His concerns at the time were that we were not mining. Kryptologika is obviously interested in exposing ponzis/scams etc. as this is basically our market and I though that we are on the same side. Unfortunately Puppet showed his true colors and tried to blackmail me and demanded that I made a kind of a statement to our customers with the AMHASH situation. I saw then and still see no reason to do so. I saw then and still see now that such move would be a stupid mistake and unnecessary stress to our customers, it could cause possibly a decline in price and other complications. We had enough liquidity and hashrate elsewhere to cover it. Indeed we are small operation however the number of our registered users is still growing and we are reaching 400 in a couple of weeks. But actually if shit like AMHASH happens you just go over it, I do not need to tell the world how much did it cost us and how we covered it. At this stage we are selling hashrate for EUR only in packages of 200, 500 and 1,000TH/s. All the transactions on the platform are being done only between our customers and we are not making a penny of it as the total number of the shares remains the same.

I keep seeing those mining columns mockups you guys designed, did you happen to build some of those?

Are you getting paid for EVERY block mined or not? Does it benefit our customers or not?

Basically I really do not see any reason to answer to any of those questions to show the hashrate, disclose how much we have sold etc. I did once, I had my lesson I do not do it any more. This will only provoke more barking and I may stop being as polite in answering them as I am so far.

And by the way... AMHASH is going to compensate its clients in part or in full sooner rather than later

[flyingplows]

AMhash                                   => 0/7 = Legit (if you buy directly) / divs momentarily (?) suspended

Guys don't you think puppet should update it? ''divs momentarily (?) suspended'' - if people compare this statement to current situation and discussion in dedicated threads it doesn't look serious... at least... so to say... Its kinda like it was written near gaw miners ''dividends from hashlets momentarily (?) suspended''. Just sayin  

[Syke]

Basically I really do not see any reason to answer to any of those questions to show the hashrate, disclose how much we have sold etc.

So you don't have the hashrate. Ponzi.

[l3sny]

Bow wow wow...
Eveyone who thinks I have no hashrate is an idiot. Running ponzi without the hashrate is impossible for such a long time because difficulty is not rising as it used to. Just do the maths.

[BombaUcigasa]

Bow wow wow...
Eveyone who thinks I have no hashrate is an idiot. Running ponzi without the hashrate is impossible for such a long time because difficulty is not rising as it used to. Just do the maths.

A ponzi requires one single thing to not crash: new payments. As long as your customers reinvest their rewards, buy more contracts or bring new customers to buy more contracts, you will have a positive net cashflow allowing the ponzi to increase in lifespan.

The difficulty "decrease" is laughable, I don't see it as a weak argument, you can still pay out more because of your advertised increasing customer base. Until we can see more actual numbers, we can't figure out if your operation is honest or if it is not. I'm sure you wouldn't want to scam people, or maybe you would, we can never tell from your behavior, that's why some real numbers are important.

[l3sny]

Bow wow wow...
Eveyone who thinks I have no hashrate is an idiot. Running ponzi without the hashrate is impossible for such a long time because difficulty is not rising as it used to. Just do the maths.

A ponzi requires one single thing to not crash: new payments. As long as your customers reinvest their rewards, buy more contracts or bring new customers to buy more contracts, you will have a positive net cashflow allowing the ponzi to increase in lifespan.

The difficulty "decrease" is laughable, I don't see it as a weak argument, you can still pay out more because of your advertised increasing customer base. Until we can see more actual numbers, we can't figure out if your operation is honest or if it is not. I'm sure you wouldn't want to scam people, or maybe you would, we can never tell from your behavior, that's why some real numbers are important.

Well... there is some good logic behind this reasoning;)

The problem with verification of any mining operation is that you need 2 things: the hashrate AND the number of sold shares. How are you going to check if they were true? I am telling you there is no way to positively verify this. You have to balance between reliability and protection of the sensitive data of the operation. So basically we care less of the first one. We will be considered by Puppet a ponzi forever and we have to live with it.

[Syke]

Bow wow wow...
Eveyone who thinks I have no hashrate is an idiot. Running ponzi without the hashrate is impossible for such a long time because difficulty is not rising as it used to. Just do the maths.

Anyone who thinks you have hashrate without proof is an idiot.

"long time"? Your ponzi has run what, 7 months? ROFLMAO. You do not have a "long time". We have lots of ponzi's that have been running longer than that.

[BombaUcigasa]

The problem with verification of any mining operation is that you need 2 things: the hashrate AND the number of sold shares. How are you going to check if they were true? I am telling you there is no way to positively verify this. You have to balance between reliability and protection of the sensitive data of the operation. So basically we care less of the first one. We will be considered by Puppet a ponzi forever and we have to live with it.

There is a simple method for this, employed by other operations and which I'm going to use. My hashrate is always verifiable through an internal proxy pool and on a public pool.

The hashrate is private now and verified by clients physically but for cloud mining you can do a single thing such as numbering the contracts. Clients can check that the total number is equal to the total hashrate and that their contract numbers never match between clients but can be publicly verified to be assigned to them.

Havelock for example enforces a total number of contracts and automatic share payments. Clients know that their contract is one of n and the block rewards for the total hashrate is distributed to them by 1/n.

[l3sny]

Bow wow wow...
Eveyone who thinks I have no hashrate is an idiot. Running ponzi without the hashrate is impossible for such a long time because difficulty is not rising as it used to. Just do the maths.

Anyone who thinks you have hashrate without proof is an idiot.

"long time"? Your ponzi has run what, 7 months? ROFLMAO. You do not have a "long time". We have lots of ponzi's that have been running longer than that.

8 months to be exact. Those ponzis operated in different circumstances with diff going over the roof. Besides
as I have said, I do not care. And we will be here for long time

[Syke]

8 months to be exact. Those ponzis operated in different circumstances with diff going over the roof. Besides
as I have said, I do not care. And we will be here for long time

Now where did I hear that before...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=418183.msg5682450#msg5682450

PB Mining is here to stay.

The parallels are quite canny.

[Puppet]

pbmining was a ponzi from day 1 and lasted nearly a year. Krypto-illogica used to own hashrate, probably even enough to cover their minuscule sales; its only been a few weeks since one should assume their AM1 shares to be gone, and with no other evidence, assume Krypto-illogica therefore turned ponzi.

[bo1ka]

https://zeushash.com seems to be down. Do we know anything about this?