BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg

[sidhujag]

A long blog about smart contracts.

Thought it might be of interest.

Great read. Thanks for the link. I wonder what Sidhujag has in mind to tackle the issue. I mean there's got to be a solution to it right?

i totally agree with it, and this is where me and david differ in oppinions although we are in sync with the end goal, the path we choose are opposite, I feel that in order to disrupt this market you must work within the current guidelines and offer interim solutions before the market adjusts without shock and realizes they can cut the middkemen out entirely.

Case in point, here in vancouver we have a huge rei bubble going on, with rei agents shadow flipping properties by front running real bids and reselling properties before their closing within 6 months making up to $300k in some deals at little to no risk. The superintndnt of rei was issued a mandate recently to discover tools and processes to combat this type of problem.. What me and my coworker thought of is this, although i pitched him the blockchain concept he convinced me an even more naive solution was required to patch the prblem first.. being able to audit the process of bidding on a property as a buyer represented by an rei agent.

So we have mls.ca and they process the sales and transactions and have an api, mostly a pull api to get info.. We simply force them to allow pushes and track bids of buyers represented by rei agents.. You cant cut rei agents out of the loop initially, the politics amd corruption reins up the ladder and it wont happen, atleast not with government help.

So you now can audit via mls and have to trust mls is accurate if courts look.

Then you offer a system that lets you track via a blockchain whereby you can issue something like a syscoin certificate to an rei agent, one to the bidder and have the pair required to place a bid on an offer (to sell the property).. Since rei agents are supposed to provide value in terms of competitivr bargaining on behalf of clients as well as provide insight into which properties the buyer should bid on it would require that the buyer would work with an agent to place a bid. Lawyers would need to be involved to oversee the documents that thr rei agent would get signed by the buyer that he can legally place bids for the buyer and it can be stored in th certificate data section as a scanned image or hash of a document. Now if it goes to court the judge can simply see what the rei agent did and confirm the buyer allowed them to bid, aswell as the buyer would br able to audit what the rei agent is doing for the buyer, all with ability to prove that you were the owner of certain certificates because you own the private keys, and you signed a notary witnesses document for the rei agent which is part of your certificate. When the sysoin offer is sold the commission is assigned to the rei agent and buyer pays the property price through an escrow. This id just an example off top of my head where you work in steps to solve these problems..

Later when market realizes that you can discover prices through some online metric and you can filter out properties you ewnt to bid on, you can lobby to remove the rei agent out of the equation and have direct buyer seller interaction without the need for lawyers or middle men, the final step in the evolution of the smart contract for the everyday world.

There is an extremely lucrative real estate trick that you can do very similar to the one mentioned above. Anyone who wants to make a killing can do this although its not entirely fair to buyers and sellers. Its called "double escrow" not to be confused with double deposit. Basically, in real estate you offer a listing an exclusive option in exchange for a dollar or whatever they accept. The option agreement might give you a few months to decide to execute. Then you secure an escrow company to find a cash buyer. You underbid on the house you optioned (like a 1 million dollar house you offer 900,000). THEN you find a the cash buyer who wants a 1 mil house for 950!

Next part is easy, you set up two escrows and pocket the difference. This amazingly is legal! It doesnt even need to be disclosed in some states which is totally ridiculous since most RE transactions require disclosing things as ridiculous as a ghost being on the property! (like how could you prove that)... Anyways, the difference in net is zero risk for the person securing the escrows. They make 50,000 on a deal they were never involved in. Double escrow was one of the many reasons for the real estate crash because of inflated prices and the ease of the deal.

Now consider that there is another deal much more effective since it eliminates you completely and you operate 100% as a silent middle man. You do the same, underbid on a million dollar house at 900,000 but maybe do it to 100 houses getting the options as cheap as possible. Then you shop the underbid portfolio to buyers and their real estate agents. This is called "find and assign". The find and assign technique is just literally options and selling the actual piece of paper since you add a clause in the contract to make the option assignable. Now you are an invisible middle man who can net anywhere from 1-50 thousand dollars per assignment depending on how awesome you got the bid. (Imagine if you bid on a hotel or a bulk amount of land, the assignment becomes extremely valuable if the bid was good).


These are examples sidhujag just like you mentioned above. Good business models but totally contrary to a realtors fiduciary responsibility. Find and assign is more ethical than double escrow since the lack of disclosure is a little unfair to the parties involved. As a realtor, I am forced to disclose double escrow here in california but in some states i think its still okay. In fact, these deals not having a license is better than having it since there is absolutely no fiduciary responsibility. Knowledge of the law actually hinders you.

Traditional real estate is totally corrupt. Especially zoning laws which have basically zoned off grid living out of existence and is a direct infringement on the freedom of mankind.

Anyways, sidhujag you are actually correct in your assessment that people will take a very long time to warm up to smart contracts since it requires them to think differently about everything they do. Also it moves consumers from a "trust" society to a "trustless" one. Of course its superior, but it takes time for people to adjust. I hope they wake up sooner than later. Hopefully one day people will decide they have had enough of middle men jacking up prices of everything.

The seller accepts the underbid at 900? What are the chances of finding a buyer at 950 when hes willing to go lower at 900? Basically your underbidding and flipping to buyers who dont underbid so much but they deal directly with you and not the seller? That seems like shadowflipping kinda cause the re agent will flip to a buyer by underbidding and hooefully getting a property then turning around and selling without putting anything down, just his name on a paper... The risk is that if closing happens, the re agent is on the hook.

[dzimbeck]

Quote:
"The seller accepts the underbid at 900? What are the chances of finding a buyer at 950 when hes willing to go lower at 900? Basically your underbidding and flipping to buyers who dont underbid so much but they deal directly with you and not the seller? That seems like shadowflipping kinda cause the re agent will flip to a buyer by underbidding and hooefully getting a property then turning around and selling without putting anything down, just his name on a paper... The risk is that if closing happens, the re agent is on the hook."


That is incorrect, an option contract forces the seller to accept at the option price. Perhaps you dont know that exclusive options cannot be broken or the seller will face a very serious lawsuit. It might even jeopardize the title. In Exclusive options the buyer pays any amount of consideration (even a dollar is legally binding) in exchange for the delay to execute the offer. Its identical to an offer, there is only a delay.

So yes the sellers cant break those and thats why double escrow is possible in an option agreement and so is assignment(exclusive and nonexclusive). There are people who made millions doing this and still do. Imagine if you faxed the option to 1000 listings, secured 50 from $1 to $1000 in exclusive options and each option is a 1-2 month option. And you can sell that portfolio via assignment or double escrow and pocket the difference.

Also in double escrow those escrows are done simultaneously. The offeror never goes on title actually, he just is a middleman between escrows, and in some states an undisclosed one at that. His first escrow is secured by the second one. And they usually find cash buyers which makes the transfer seemless.

In the case of assignment, hes not involved in any way whatsoever. He is literally selling a piece of paper. I know that seems funny but its not because the option will almost definitely have a clause for assignment. Thats the whole reason a buyer would want it since the seller is forced into escrow.

The agent is absolutely not on the hook. This is all allowed in the law. Its the seller that would be in serious trouble. The law not only allows middle men, it encourages them. That was my point.

Its actually a real estate secret. Very few people know about find and assign... but you can see on google there are certainly wholesalers and consumers that do it.
https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&q=%22find+and+assign%22&oq=%22find+and+assign%22&gs_l=serp.3...178304.181681.0.181892.19.11.0.0.0.0.312.312.3-1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..18.1.312.0.MAILnm1SvlQ

[cryptohunter2]

has anyone here got any ideas how we can increase interest in BAY on this forum or anywhere else??

I do have some ideas but they are quite drastic!!

If not I will post my idea up and you guys can see what you think.

[illodin]

has anyone here got any ideas how we can increase interest in BAY on this forum or anywhere else??

In this forum people are very defensive regarding their vested interests, so if they are not invested in BAY, they will object it by nature.

Make it easy to use any coin as the escrow deposit. The client (or a contract?) would trade the deposited coin to BAY at the start, and trade it back to DOGE or w/e it originally was when the contract finishes. Perhaps even downplay the fact that BAY is the underlying token so different coin communities would have less objections in adopting the market.

There would obviously have to be a fee for using other coins because of slippage and exchanges taking their cut, so when people get familiar with the market and they want smaller fees they'd perhaps start using BAY directly.

I suppose the above would ideally utilize a decentralized exchange, but perhaps ShapeShift's API could be used in the interim.

"A secure double deposit escrow market for any coin!"

[dzimbeck]

has anyone here got any ideas how we can increase interest in BAY on this forum or anywhere else??

In this forum people are very defensive regarding their vested interests, so if they are not invested in BAY, they will object it by nature.

Make it easy to use any coin as the escrow deposit. The client (or a contract?) would trade the deposited coin to BAY at the start, and trade it back to DOGE or w/e it originally was when the contract finishes. Perhaps even downplay the fact that BAY is the underlying token so different coin communities would have less objections in adopting the market.

There would obviously have to be a fee for using other coins because of slippage and exchanges taking their cut, so when people get familiar with the market and they want smaller fees they'd perhaps start using BAY directly.

I suppose the above would ideally utilize a decentralized exchange, but perhaps ShapeShift's API could be used in the interim.

"A secure double deposit escrow market for any coin!"

In theory, I can give every coin smart contracts after the software is complete. Doge is actually the next one on my list because of its meme power. Such contract so fashion WOW.

But yeah, as you already know about the NightTrader exchange, that is going to be a very critical question of if I do that or pegging first. I think the exchange needs to be at least in Beta first because we need a place to trade frozen assets and also a place to trade Bitbay if no exchange accepts it after the fork.

The NT exchange will support many coins, microtrading is a way to trade any two coins. However, its a bit heavy on the blockchain.

Unfortunately, there is no way that I can think of (yet) that does contracts between two currencies. Especially since the payout should at least be in one currency.

The way might be do to atomic trades but thats extremely advanced if you also do those trades on top of contracts (since the trades are time locked and contracts allow for extensions).

I'm not sure how a contract can be made with multiple currencies at this time. (maybe it can be done with some advanced time lock tricks or a lightning network in all of the coins)

Not all coins support time locks which is exactly why NT exchange is microtrading. Although i've considered green addresses for a slightly less trusted method.

The ultimate decentralized exchange is definitely a lightning network that is coin agnostic since those can all be done p2p without reporting to a blockchain.

[banqueiro]

Good afternoon, everyone.

I have finally decided to "help", and since yesterday I have left my bitbays staking.

I have never done this kind of thing before. It's the first time I stake any cryptocurrency, because of having to leave the wallet online all the time, etc. But, this time I have decided to buy a new cheap pc and leave it on all the time staking. Anyway...

I have not succeeeded in staking anything yet (only orphans), but what I'd like to check here is if it's ok that I am only being able to connect to very few peers (2, or 3 maximum)... And right now I have got 0 active peers connection!

Am I doing anything wrong?

btw, I have got no "bitbay.conf". Is it necessary? If so, could someone please post here a conf example for me?

Thank you so much for this great project.

Success!

[cryptohunter2]

has anyone here got any ideas how we can increase interest in BAY on this forum or anywhere else??

In this forum people are very defensive regarding their vested interests, so if they are not invested in BAY, they will object it by nature.

Make it easy to use any coin as the escrow deposit. The client (or a contract?) would trade the deposited coin to BAY at the start, and trade it back to DOGE or w/e it originally was when the contract finishes. Perhaps even downplay the fact that BAY is the underlying token so different coin communities would have less objections in adopting the market.

There would obviously have to be a fee for using other coins because of slippage and exchanges taking their cut, so when people get familiar with the market and they want smaller fees they'd perhaps start using BAY directly.

I suppose the above would ideally utilize a decentralized exchange, but perhaps ShapeShift's API could be used in the interim.

"A secure double deposit escrow market for any coin!"

Yes, this is an excellent way to get other communities over to bay and provide a safe and secure coin exchange. I like it.

Any other ideas from members of the community?

[dzimbeck]

Good afternoon, everyone.

I have finally decided to "help", and since yesterday I have left my bitbays staking.

I have never done this kind of thing before. It's the first time I stake any cryptocurrency, because of having to leave the wallet online all the time, etc. But, this time I have decided to buy a new cheap pc and leave it on all the time staking. Anyway...

I have not succeeeded in staking anything yet (only orphans), but what I'd like to check here is if it's ok that I am only being able to connect to very few peers (2, or 3 maximum)... And right now I have got 0 active peers connection!

Am I doing anything wrong?

btw, I have got no "bitbay.conf". Is it necessary? If so, could someone please post here a conf example for me?

Thank you so much for this great project.

Success!

Hey so there is more nodes you can add. So I think the best idea is to set up a bitbay.conf

The config file isnt necessary but it gives you more control over you wallet, you can add nodes, get api access and do many more things with it.
The nodes you want to add we have mentioned before I'm going to post them here for you...
addnode=104.236.208.150
addnode=188.166.39.223
addnode=128.199.118.67
addnode=104.255.33.162
addnode=194.135.84.161
addnode=23.227.190.163


And thanks for helping! This is gonna be a great year. Last year we released the worlds first decentralized markets and this year my goal is to finish the rest of the features.

[banqueiro]

Good afternoon, everyone.

I have finally decided to "help", and since yesterday I have left my bitbays staking.

I have never done this kind of thing before. It's the first time I stake any cryptocurrency, because of having to leave the wallet online all the time, etc. But, this time I have decided to buy a new cheap pc and leave it on all the time staking. Anyway...

I have not succeeeded in staking anything yet (only orphans), but what I'd like to check here is if it's ok that I am only being able to connect to very few peers (2, or 3 maximum)... And right now I have got 0 active peers connection!

Am I doing anything wrong?

btw, I have got no "bitbay.conf". Is it necessary? If so, could someone please post here a conf example for me?

Thank you so much for this great project.

Success!

Hey so there is more nodes you can add. So I think the best idea is to set up a bitbay.conf

The config file isnt necessary but it gives you more control over you wallet, you can add nodes, get api access and do many more things with it.
The nodes you want to add we have mentioned before I'm going to post them here for you...
addnode=104.236.208.150
addnode=188.166.39.223
addnode=128.199.118.67
addnode=104.255.33.162
addnode=194.135.84.161
addnode=23.227.190.163


And thanks for helping! This is gonna be a great year. Last year we released the worlds first decentralized markets and this year my goal is to finish the rest of the features.

Thank you for the nodes IPs. Now, I've created a conf file here

Yesterday I was able to stake some bays already

Thank you. And please, do your best. Bitbay is great!

[bitcoinpete]

Need somebody trustworthy who can take my keys and be able to send me the bitbays to my new wallet, this is frustrating I cant believe Im such a retard and cant figure this problem out for myself

[nember]

Need somebody trustworthy who can take my keys and be able to send me the bitbays to my new wallet, this is frustrating I cant believe Im such a retard and cant figure this problem out for myself

may i suggest that you describe your problem here, as a good start? not easy to help not knowing what it is all about. thanks

[3r197]

Need somebody trustworthy who can take my keys and be able to send me the bitbays to my new wallet, this is frustrating I cant believe Im such a retard and cant figure this problem out for myself

So your client is setup? Why not just post your receiver address in your client and I'll send a small amount to see if it works?

Back when I first started the client, for some reason I thought that I needed the private key(s) from my qt wallet to transfer over to my client.
I was overthinking things. No need to do that. Think of the client as a completely separate bank.
In the client just go to your receiver tab and copy and paste that address into your qt wallet send Bay tab.

[moroneroo]

Need somebody trustworthy who can take my keys and be able to send me the bitbays to my new wallet, this is frustrating I cant believe Im such a retard and cant figure this problem out for myself

Yes, I guess I know your problem: You have to wait for the blockchain to download.
If the blockchain has alrready downloaded, and you still are not able to send Bitbay, then check you you've got enough balance.
If you've got enough balance, and it still does not work, download the latest Bitbay wallet, because it is possible you mistankenly have the wallet for another cryptocurrency, instead of Bitbay's, there. 

[cryptohunter2]

I notice this thread is getting more attention lately. Be good to build the community up to a nice size to support the work david is doing.

David is it possible to put voting in the wallet? i've often heard some communities can vote on thing through their wallet? however i've never found any coins that can do this? is that just nonsense?

[dzimbeck]

I notice this thread is getting more attention lately. Be good to build the community up to a nice size to support the work david is doing.

David is it possible to put voting in the wallet? i've often heard some communities can vote on thing through their wallet? however i've never found any coins that can do this? is that just nonsense?

Well considering miners will vote for inflation and deflation, we could probably have them use that info to cast votes. Or even pay out to voting addresses. Its not the kind of thing i will support in the beta launch of pegging. But obviously since we stake from the client its certainly possible

[cryptohunter2]

I notice this thread is getting more attention lately. Be good to build the community up to a nice size to support the work david is doing.

David is it possible to put voting in the wallet? i've often heard some communities can vote on thing through their wallet? however i've never found any coins that can do this? is that just nonsense?

Well considering miners will vote for inflation and deflation, we could probably have them use that info to cast votes. Or even pay out to voting addresses. Its not the kind of thing i will support in the beta launch of pegging. But obviously since we stake from the client its certainly possible

That's true I'd forgotten we'll all be voting for inflation or deflation.

[cryptohunter2]

I got to thinking David - since the intial ICO was a total scam, and you were left with basically nothing except your BAYs and a few btc (which really was for smartcontracts software which you have given to bay already) to fund the rest of the development of bit bay as opposed to say etherium that got 18M dollars worth of BTC... what amount of BTC would it take to get you going with hiring the devs and setting up some decent marketing for BAY? would be nice to have a marketing guy /graphics webdesign i mean a team instead of just you having to arrange and do it all really.

I mean there is away we could raise a reasonable amount of BTC... If you could outline how many BTC it would take and a plan of how it would be used to best effect i think there is a possible way we could raise this?

If there were away to

1. increase interest/awareness and belief
2. Increase dev funding - totally transparent and a ledger - released only in agreement with community for confidence and involvement..
3. get volume up and on to other larger exchanges
4. reward those  who still believe and support the project - with real viable rewards.

surely those would be good things?

Perhaps we can get BAY to where is should have been if the ICO wasn't a totally scam resulting in the bay ico investors and you getting shafted...and those 3000BTC had been put to devs, marketing, projects ...just think where BAY would have been.

What was the ICO price is sats for BAY - i forget now?


I think something can be done. But how many BTC would we need to raise to make it worth while?

Of course it's not all about the BTC i mean generating interest and new belief in the project is as important..

[pugman]

i think a boost in marketcap would give everyone a lift and get people "interested" again, not to mention motivate David more (not that he isnt but you know what i mean)

[Munti]

Good to see some initiative 
A fund raising would be most welcome of course...
We already have a marketing fund that could need more donations: B6HtsEuEQfzJTsf751xFj11DpuFjzQfgiS
If anyone prefers to donate btc, just say so. We will make an address.

Other then donating there are other ways to help out as well. We have a lot of work that needs to be done that doesn't require coding skills. Most of all we need help writing articles and get them published.

For those that want to help but don't know what to do you could help getting our name out there by tipping Bay on twitter.

Bitbay has now been added to the CoinWallet.co online wallet, POS pool service and Twitter tipping service.

https://www.coinwallet.co

Running since 2013.

POS Pool fee: 2%
Wallet withdrawal fee: 0.5%
Twitter tipping fee: 0%
Email payment / transfer fee: 0%

As always use online wallets with caution and store the majority of your coins in cold storage or a secure / encrypted wallet on your computer.

Coinwallet.co serves as an easy to use and accessible wallet that you can access with just an internet connection.

Donations welcome: BPvweW7HcT4bX8AqpTo5LU2dHHhhkUQVCR

[Munti]

We have to start preparing for marketing. What we really need is a list of ppl/sites  that we should send press releases to. Can anyone please help us with that?